Missy introduced me yesterday to the idea that more than half of all the movies out there are male chauvenist.

Define a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

chauvenist = chauvinist

Bubblecar said:

chauvenist = chauvinist

Not a word that I type very often.

>male chauvenist

i’ve seen a lot of movies in which lady’s cough exhibit (what i’d call) male chauvinist attributes, so you got to wonder where sexual egalitarianism went.

transition said:

>male chauvenist

i’ve seen a lot of movies in which lady’s cough exhibit (what i’d call) male chauvinist attributes, so you got to wonder where sexual egalitarianism went.

ladies

mollwollfumble said:

Missy introduced me yesterday to the idea that more than half of all the movies out there are male chauvenist.

Define a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

Aliens, Ripley is no female in need of saving, she speaks to Vasquez briefly but it’s not really a talking movie.
But yeah often women are relegated to eye candy except were they are the heroine.

mollwollfumble said:

… a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

The Bechdel Test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

transition said:

transition said:

>male chauvenist

i’ve seen a lot of movies in which lady’s cough exhibit (what i’d call) male chauvinist attributes, so you got to wonder where sexual egalitarianism went.

ladies

Or women act like pig men taking on the non desirable attributes of men as its a lazy way of writing for a tough dependable independent women

esselte said:

mollwollfumble said:

… a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

The Bechdel Test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Stunted treatment of female characters is probably the most obviously primitive feature of much mainstream cinema. But there are other obvious limitations as well, such as the scarcity of films that don’t contain any physical violence.

Bubblecar said:

esselte said:

mollwollfumble said:

… a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

The Bechdel Test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Stunted treatment of female characters is probably the most obviously primitive feature of much mainstream cinema. But there are other obvious limitations as well, such as the scarcity of films that don’t contain any physical violence.

Something I find annoying is poorly written drama in tv shows, the pinning for relationships and turning strong characters into whinny ones going on and on about it.

Bubblecar said:

esselte said:

mollwollfumble said:

… a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

The Bechdel Test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Stunted treatment of female characters is probably the most obviously primitive feature of much mainstream cinema. But there are other obvious limitations as well, such as the scarcity of films that don’t contain any physical violence.

Don’t watch Jack Irish then Bubblecar. It lulls you into thinking it’s OK and then hits you hard with the violence. Understated violence, but all the more effective for that. Even when you can predict it.

>such as the scarcity of films that don’t contain any physical violence

breath of fresh air when find them

esselte said:

mollwollfumble said:

… a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

The Bechdel Test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Perfect. Thanks.

“The Bechdel test is a method for evaluating the portrayal of women in fiction. It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added. About half of all films meet these requirements, according to user-edited databases and the media industry press. The test is used as an indicator for the active presence of women in films and other fiction, and to call attention to gender inequality in fiction.

“Also known as the Bechdel–Wallace test, it is named after the American cartoonist Alison Bechdel, in whose comic strip, Dykes to Watch Out For, the test first appeared, in 1985. Bechdel credited the idea to a friend, Liz Wallace, and to the writings of Virginia Woolf. After the test became more widely discussed in the 2000s, a number of variants and tests inspired by it have been introduced.”

“Several variants of the test have been proposed, that there must be at least a total of 60 seconds of conversation. In June 2018, the Bechdel test was added to the Oxford English Dictionary. Writer Charles Stross noted that about half of the films that do pass the test only do so because the women talk about marriage or babies. Works that fail the test include some that are mainly about or aimed at women, or which do feature prominent female characters.”

mollwollfumble adds here that many that pass the test only do so because a mother is giving her daughter advice.

mollwollfumble said:

esselte said:

mollwollfumble said:

… a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

The Bechdel Test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Perfect. Thanks.

“The Bechdel test is a method for evaluating the portrayal of women in fiction. It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added. About half of all films meet these requirements, according to user-edited databases and the media industry press. The test is used as an indicator for the active presence of women in films and other fiction, and to call attention to gender inequality in fiction.

“Also known as the Bechdel–Wallace test, it is named after the American cartoonist Alison Bechdel, in whose comic strip, Dykes to Watch Out For, the test first appeared, in 1985. Bechdel credited the idea to a friend, Liz Wallace, and to the writings of Virginia Woolf. After the test became more widely discussed in the 2000s, a number of variants and tests inspired by it have been introduced.”

“Several variants of the test have been proposed, that there must be at least a total of 60 seconds of conversation. In June 2018, the Bechdel test was added to the Oxford English Dictionary. Writer Charles Stross noted that about half of the films that do pass the test only do so because the women talk about marriage or babies. Works that fail the test include some that are mainly about or aimed at women, or which do feature prominent female characters.”

mollwollfumble adds here that many that pass the test only do so because a mother is giving her daughter advice.

Funny they mentioned Alien, all about survival no time for much small talk

The number of movies passing the Bechdel test has been increasing.

But still, the amount of conversation between women in movies is frighteningly small. I shill think that “at least 60 seconds of conversation” should be included.

How many movies have more conversations between women about something other than men than about conversations between men about something other than women?

>Define a non-chauvenist movie as one where at least two women have speaking parts and talk together about something other than husbands, boyfriends, men.

This is not the definition of non-chauvinism. Also a movie may have chauvinist portrayals of females or males alongside non-chauvinist ones.

e. g. The Graduate (which I happened to watch again a couple of nights ago)

mollwollfumble said:

The number of movies passing the Bechdel test has been increasing.

But still, the amount of conversation between women in movies is frighteningly small. I shill think that “at least 60 seconds of conversation” should be included.

How many movies have more conversations between women about something other than men than about conversations between men about something other than women?

Terminator movies as well

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

The number of movies passing the Bechdel test has been increasing.

But still, the amount of conversation between women in movies is frighteningly small. I shill think that “at least 60 seconds of conversation” should be included.

How many movies have more conversations between women about something other than men than about conversations between men about something other than women?

Terminator movies as well

In fact science fiction movies/tv pretty much always have strong female characters that don’t need men to define them, much the better for it

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-03/hollywood-diversity-on-screen-chart/10061588

If you want to know more about female roles in film, read “Chick Flicks”, edited by Suzanne Ferriss and Mallory Young. https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Chick_Flicks.html?id=TcBpAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

Here is a reference list from my exegesis last year about women in film.

Have fun!

Thankfully, the final copy I submitted contained no referencing errors, unlike the pics I just posted 🙄

>This is not the definition of non-chauvinism.

This is a minimum requirement. Even movies supposedly about female empowerment, such as Mulan, fail. Brave barely squeaks in. Hunger Games ditto. Legally Blonde is about as good as it gets.

Divine Angel said:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-03/hollywood-diversity-on-screen-chart/10061588

If you want to know more about female roles in film, read “Chick Flicks”, edited by Suzanne Ferriss and Mallory Young. https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Chick_Flicks.html?id=TcBpAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

Here is a reference list from my exegesis last year about women in film.

Have fun!

“Exegesis”?

> Have fun!

Will, thanks D.A.

mollwollfumble said:

>This is not the definition of non-chauvinism.

This is a minimum requirement. Even movies supposedly about female empowerment, such as Mulan, fail. Brave barely squeaks in. Hunger Games ditto. Legally Blonde is about as good as it gets.

Strong heroine movies were the women isn’t superhuman, eg Alien movies and Terminator movies.

mollwollfumble said:

>This is not the definition of non-chauvinism.

This is a minimum requirement. Even movies supposedly about female empowerment, such as Mulan, fail. Brave barely squeaks in. Hunger Games ditto. Legally Blonde is about as good as it gets.

No. Chauvinism is about the power relatioships between the characters. This may be correlated with the amount of dialogue that each has I suppose, but not necessarily.

Yes, an exegesis.

I adapted my own short story, Slide, into a 10 minute screenplay. The project was for my last unit for uni. As well as the screenplay, I had to write an exegesis, which is basically an exploration of which film theories I used (and why) in my screenplay.

The exegesis was limited to 2000 words; I had tons more research that I didn’t end up writing about because it was waaaaaaay outside the word limit.

Divine Angel said:

Yes, an exegesis.

I adapted my own short story, Slide, into a 10 minute screenplay. The project was for my last unit for uni. As well as the screenplay, I had to write an exegesis, which is basically an exploration of which film theories I used (and why) in my screenplay.

The exegesis was limited to 2000 words; I had tons more research that I didn’t end up writing about because it was waaaaaaay outside the word limit.

I like it. Feel free to post here none or any or all of it.

mollwollfumble said:

Divine Angel said:

Yes, an exegesis.

I adapted my own short story, Slide, into a 10 minute screenplay. The project was for my last unit for uni. As well as the screenplay, I had to write an exegesis, which is basically an exploration of which film theories I used (and why) in my screenplay.

The exegesis was limited to 2000 words; I had tons more research that I didn’t end up writing about because it was waaaaaaay outside the word limit.

I like it. Feel free to post here none or any or all of it.

My exegesis was 26k. There was no limit but my supers were trying to get me to do it in 20k.

> If you want to know more about female roles in film, read “Chick Flicks”, edited by Suzanne Ferriss and Mallory Young. https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Chick_Flicks.html?id=TcBpAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

$50 for an ebook – yuk. I don’t even pay that for hardbacks these days.

> https://pudding.cool/2017/03/film-dialogue/

Nice interactive by % of dialogue female. Some selections.

93% The hand that rocks the cradle
83% Sex and the city
82% Mean girls
76% The devil wears Prada
74% Sister act
73% Coraline
70% Pride and prejudice
69% Sleeping beauty
69% Thelma and Louise
68% Maleficent
67% Edward scissorhands
68% Private Benjamin
61% Cabaret
58% The horse whisperer
58% Twister
57% The Addams family
57% Frozen
56% Tootsie
56% Sex, lies and videotape
53% Beetlejuice
53% Tarzan
52% Sleepless in Seattle
50% Clueless

So wipe out from that those movies with only a single significant female character, those where the female characters talk about men, and those with only a mother and daughter.

sarahs mum said:

mollwollfumble said:

Divine Angel said:

Yes, an exegesis.

I adapted my own short story, Slide, into a 10 minute screenplay. The project was for my last unit for uni. As well as the screenplay, I had to write an exegesis, which is basically an exploration of which film theories I used (and why) in my screenplay.

The exegesis was limited to 2000 words; I had tons more research that I didn’t end up writing about because it was waaaaaaay outside the word limit.

I like it. Feel free to post here none or any or all of it.

My exegesis was 26k. There was no limit but my supers were trying to get me to do it in 20k.

Perhaps I ought to get annoyed that all the journals and other publishers push so hard to reduce the size of articles. I mean, it’s not as if e-paper, or even real paper, is so expensive, and there are valid reasons for going long.

I think this is being interpreted wrongly. The figure of more that 50% of films passing is based on this interpretation:

1. The movie has to have at least two women in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. about something besides a man at least once.

But a more correct interpretation is:

1. The movie has to have at least two women in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. only about something besides a man.

That makes sense in the context of “last movie I was able to see was alien”

Let’s call it an “original Bechdel test”. That rules out a heck of a lot more.

Oops, let me try that post again

I think this is being interpreted wrongly. The figure of more that 50% of films passing is based on this interpretation:

1. The movie has to have at least two women in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. about something besides a man at least once.

But a more correct interpretation is:

1. The movie has to have at least two women in it,
2. who talk to each other,
3. and only talk about something besides a man.

That makes sense in the context of “last movie I was able to see was alien”

Let’s call it an “original Bechdel test”. That rules out a heck of a lot more.

That rules out Sex and the city, Sister act, Pride and prejudice, Sleeping beauty, Private Benjamin, Cabaret, Twister, Frozen, Tootsie, Sex lies and videotape, Sleepless in Seattle, Clueless, Legally blonde, Mulan, Princess diaries, for starters. I don’t know the others well enough to comment.

Even rarer.

There are lots of boy-girl movies, father-son movies, mother-daughter movies. A few father-daughter movies.

But mother-son movies are exceptionally rare. It’s rare enough for mother and son to be in the same movie, eg. beverley and wesley crusher, sarah and john connor.

After racking my brain for about half an hour I only came up with one mother-son movie: “the world according to garp”.

Is there another?

mollwollfumble said:

Even rarer.

There are lots of boy-girl movies, father-son movies, mother-daughter movies. A few father-daughter movies.

But mother-son movies are exceptionally rare. It’s rare enough for mother and son to be in the same movie, eg. beverley and wesley crusher, sarah and john connor.

After racking my brain for about half an hour I only came up with one mother-son movie: “the world according to garp”.

Is there another?

psycho

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

Even rarer.

There are lots of boy-girl movies, father-son movies, mother-daughter movies. A few father-daughter movies.

But mother-son movies are exceptionally rare. It’s rare enough for mother and son to be in the same movie, eg. beverley and wesley crusher, sarah and john connor.

After racking my brain for about half an hour I only came up with one mother-son movie: “the world according to garp”.

Is there another?

psycho

Does Mother-son in law count?

The Graduate.

we need to talk about kevin

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

Even rarer.

There are lots of boy-girl movies, father-son movies, mother-daughter movies. A few father-daughter movies.

But mother-son movies are exceptionally rare. It’s rare enough for mother and son to be in the same movie, eg. beverley and wesley crusher, sarah and john connor.

After racking my brain for about half an hour I only came up with one mother-son movie: “the world according to garp”.

Is there another?

psycho

Does Mother-son in law count?

The Graduate.

Mother and Son tv show

Arts said:

we need to talk about kevin

We are not allowed to talk about kevin these days.

Imagine the movies Freud might have made about mother and son relationships

Cymek said:

Imagine the movies Freud might have made about mother and son relationships

Nope. I don’t want to.

mollwollfumble said:

Even rarer.

There are lots of boy-girl movies, father-son movies, mother-daughter movies. A few father-daughter movies.

But mother-son movies are exceptionally rare. It’s rare enough for mother and son to be in the same movie, eg. beverley and wesley crusher, sarah and john connor.

After racking my brain for about half an hour I only came up with one mother-son movie: “the world according to garp”.

Is there another?

Spanking the Monkey.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

Even rarer.

There are lots of boy-girl movies, father-son movies, mother-daughter movies. A few father-daughter movies.

But mother-son movies are exceptionally rare. It’s rare enough for mother and son to be in the same movie, eg. beverley and wesley crusher, sarah and john connor.

After racking my brain for about half an hour I only came up with one mother-son movie: “the world according to garp”.

Is there another?

psycho

Does Mother-son in law count?

The Graduate.

I thought of psycho. No, it doesn’t count as a mother-son movie!

The Graduate, not quite the same, his parents are still alive.

> Spanking the monkey.

Yep. That’s one.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

psycho

Does Mother-son in law count?

The Graduate.

I thought of psycho. No, it doesn’t count as a mother-son movie!

The Graduate, not quite the same, his parents are still alive.

> Spanking the monkey.

Yep. That’s one.

The web suggests:
A.I. artificial intelligence
Throw momma from the train
The Spiderwick chronicles
Pay it forward

Hmm, not great examples.

As well some better examples I’ve never heard of, such as:

Bringing up Bobby
Homeland security
Trucker
Stop! Or my mom will shoot
Room
We need to talk about Kevin
Child’s Play
The invasion
My one and only

The web also suggests:
The mummy returns

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

psycho

Does Mother-son in law count?

The Graduate.

I thought of psycho. No, it doesn’t count as a mother-son movie!

The Graduate, not quite the same, his parents are still alive.

> Spanking the monkey.

Yep. That’s one.

The web suggests:
A.I. artificial intelligence
Throw momma from the train
The Spiderwick chronicles
Pay it forward

Hmm, not great examples.

As well some better examples I’ve never heard of, such as:

Bringing up Bobby
Homeland security
Trucker
Stop! Or my mom will shoot
Room
We need to talk about Kevin
Child’s Play
The invasion
My one and only

The web also suggests:
The mummy returns

Arts said:

we need to talk about kevin

Good one.

In TV series, mother-son is a bit more common.

Yes, Mother and son, but also
Everyone loves Raymond
Extant
Sarah Jane Smith and Luke Smith in The Sarah Jane Adventures (the Dr Who spinoff).

get woke

go broke