Date: 17/08/2018 15:12:51
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1264208
Subject: Moderation wins again

Who knew…

“During a median follow-up of 25 years there were 6283 deaths in the ARIC cohort, and there were 40 181 deaths across all cohort studies. In the ARIC cohort, after multivariable adjustment, there was a U-shaped association between the percentage of energy consumed from carbohydrate (mean 48·9%, SD 9·4) and mortality: a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality. In the meta-analysis of all cohorts (432 179 participants), both low carbohydrate consumption (<40%) and high carbohydrate consumption (>70%) conferred greater mortality risk than did moderate intake, which was consistent with a U-shaped association (pooled hazard ratio 1·20, 95% CI 1·09–1·32 for low carbohydrate consumption; 1·23, 1·11–1·36 for high carbohydrate consumption). However, results varied by the source of macronutrients: mortality increased when carbohydrates were exchanged for animal-derived fat or protein (1·18, 1·08–1·29) and mortality decreased when the substitutions were plant-based (0·82, 0·78–0·87).

Link

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Date: 17/08/2018 15:31:53
From: buffy
ID: 1264215
Subject: re: Moderation wins again

So the meaning of life is the normal distribution curve.

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Date: 17/08/2018 17:03:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1264223
Subject: re: Moderation wins again

Fair enough but WADITE.

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Date: 17/08/2018 17:09:43
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1264225
Subject: re: Moderation wins again

poikilotherm said:


Who knew…

“During a median follow-up of 25 years there were 6283 deaths in the ARIC cohort, and there were 40 181 deaths across all cohort studies. In the ARIC cohort, after multivariable adjustment, there was a U-shaped association between the percentage of energy consumed from carbohydrate (mean 48·9%, SD 9·4) and mortality: a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality. In the meta-analysis of all cohorts (432 179 participants), both low carbohydrate consumption (<40%) and high carbohydrate consumption (>70%) conferred greater mortality risk than did moderate intake, which was consistent with a U-shaped association (pooled hazard ratio 1·20, 95% CI 1·09–1·32 for low carbohydrate consumption; 1·23, 1·11–1·36 for high carbohydrate consumption). However, results varied by the source of macronutrients: mortality increased when carbohydrates were exchanged for animal-derived fat or protein (1·18, 1·08–1·29) and mortality decreased when the substitutions were plant-based (0·82, 0·78–0·87).

Link

> a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality.

They need to distinguish between proteins and fats. Also, are they taking into account the enormous difference between pure carbohydrates and carbohydrate-rich foods. I can see that I’ll have to read the technical article to make sense of it.

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Date: 17/08/2018 17:27:53
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1264230
Subject: re: Moderation wins again

mollwollfumble said:


poikilotherm said:

Who knew…

“During a median follow-up of 25 years there were 6283 deaths in the ARIC cohort, and there were 40 181 deaths across all cohort studies. In the ARIC cohort, after multivariable adjustment, there was a U-shaped association between the percentage of energy consumed from carbohydrate (mean 48·9%, SD 9·4) and mortality: a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality. In the meta-analysis of all cohorts (432 179 participants), both low carbohydrate consumption (<40%) and high carbohydrate consumption (>70%) conferred greater mortality risk than did moderate intake, which was consistent with a U-shaped association (pooled hazard ratio 1·20, 95% CI 1·09–1·32 for low carbohydrate consumption; 1·23, 1·11–1·36 for high carbohydrate consumption). However, results varied by the source of macronutrients: mortality increased when carbohydrates were exchanged for animal-derived fat or protein (1·18, 1·08–1·29) and mortality decreased when the substitutions were plant-based (0·82, 0·78–0·87).

Link

> a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality.

They need to distinguish between proteins and fats. Also, are they taking into account the enormous difference between pure carbohydrates and carbohydrate-rich foods. I can see that I’ll have to read the technical article to make sense of it.

they did, you should read the actual study instead of my cut’n‘past brief findings section.

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Date: 17/08/2018 20:27:27
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1264419
Subject: re: Moderation wins again

poikilotherm said:


mollwollfumble said:

poikilotherm said:

Who knew…

“During a median follow-up of 25 years there were 6283 deaths in the ARIC cohort, and there were 40 181 deaths across all cohort studies. In the ARIC cohort, after multivariable adjustment, there was a U-shaped association between the percentage of energy consumed from carbohydrate (mean 48·9%, SD 9·4) and mortality: a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality. In the meta-analysis of all cohorts (432 179 participants), both low carbohydrate consumption (<40%) and high carbohydrate consumption (>70%) conferred greater mortality risk than did moderate intake, which was consistent with a U-shaped association (pooled hazard ratio 1·20, 95% CI 1·09–1·32 for low carbohydrate consumption; 1·23, 1·11–1·36 for high carbohydrate consumption). However, results varied by the source of macronutrients: mortality increased when carbohydrates were exchanged for animal-derived fat or protein (1·18, 1·08–1·29) and mortality decreased when the substitutions were plant-based (0·82, 0·78–0·87).

Link

> a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality.

They need to distinguish between proteins and fats. Also, are they taking into account the enormous difference between pure carbohydrates and carbohydrate-rich foods. I can see that I’ll have to read the technical article to make sense of it.

they did, you should read the actual study instead of my cut’n‘past brief findings section.

You should learn to summarise properly ;)

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Date: 17/08/2018 23:13:21
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1264446
Subject: re: Moderation wins again

buffy, do you want to consider submitting out paper to the Lancet. It’s as good as this paper.

poikilotherm said:


mollwollfumble said:

> a percentage of 50–55% energy from carbohydrate was associated with the lowest risk of mortality.

They need to distinguish between proteins and fats. Also, are they taking into account the enormous difference between pure carbohydrates and carbohydrate-rich foods. I can see that I’ll have to read the technical article to make sense of it.

they did, you should read the actual study instead of my cut’n‘past brief findings section.

Reading actual study now.

> We studied 15 428 adults aged 45–64 years, in four US communities, who completed a dietary questionnaire at enrolment in the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) study between 1987 and 1989, and who did not report extreme caloric intake. During a median follow-up of 25 years there were 6283 deaths in the ARIC cohort.

Good.

> After multivariable adjustment

Good.

> Low carbohydrate dietary patterns favouring animal-derived protein and fat sources, from sources such as lamb, beef, pork, and chicken, were associated with higher mortality, whereas those that favoured plant-derived protein and fat intake, from sources such as vegetables, nuts, peanut butter, and whole-grain breads, were associated with lower mortality.

Should that be the real conclusion of the study?

> The meta-analysis of large cohort studies in North America and Europe has suggested increased mortality associated with low carbohydrate intake. Conversely, recently published multinational and Asian studies have reported increased mortality in association with high carbohydrate intake.

Perhaps that should be the real conclusion. Perhaps that means that the methodology is stuffed.

> Combining these data with those from other North American, European, Asian and multinational cohorts. We identified seven studies in addition to the index cohort (432 179 participants, 40 181 deaths).

Well in that case, perhaps the present study (because 6 << 40) has only negligible significance. Reading further, no, the same conclusions from the present study and from the other studies combined would be important confirmation of both the present study and the methodology.

> Participants completed an interview that included a 66-item semi-quantitative food frequency questionnaire. We used the Harvard Nutrient Database to derive nutrient intakes from the FFQ responses.

So far so good.

> We analysed the covariates of age, sex, race, education, smoking, exercise, energy intake (kcal), and diabetes.

So far so good.

> total energy from carbohydrate

As I my reply to the OP, there’s still no mention of whether the carbohydrate was from whole foods or in purified form.

> We created actuarial estimates of the age-specific probabilities of death according to each category of carbohydrate

“Category” is the wrong word here because it’s not different types of carbohydrate. “Percentile range” is more accurate, 6 classes.

> We chose a reference group of 50–55% … Mean carbohydrate intake was 48·9%.

The smallest percentile range, is that because it’s what most people do naturally? Looks like it to me.

> We used restricted cubic splines

Like buffy and me

> Participants with the lowest carbohydrate range … high body-mass index … smoking

Wait on, is this really a paper about the dangers of obesity and smoking, ie. are these treated as independent variables or not? You see, that can be read both ways: one would be directly caused by carbohydrate intake and the other would be indirect via smoking or obesity (or other). Both approaches are important and the paper should analyse it both ways. Do they?

> Prevalence of hypertension was similar across carbohydrate quantiles

That’s good to know.

I wish they’d written down number of deaths in Table 1. That was too important to be omitted, considering we’re supposed to be talking about mortality.

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