buffy said:

Watched The Ice Bridge. Had some troubles with it. I see at least one participant did too.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/21/rejecting-the-solutrean-hypothesis-the-first-peoples-in-the-americas-were-not-from-europe

Did not watch “the ice bridge”.

> The notion that the ancestors of Native Americans were not the first or only people on the continent has great popularity

OK, what do I know from background?

1.
There has been a huge amount of talk about pre-Clovis people in the Americas. I’m not exactly sure what the level of agreement between experts is. Clovis culture began 13,200 to 12,900 BP (or 450 years later). Dates of pre-Clovis sites according to Wikipedia are 24,000 BP, 16,000 BP, 15,500 BP, 15,070 BP, before 14,800 BP etc. Also according to wikipedia there are 19 well documented pre-Clovis sites.

2.
DNA analysis of native Americans reveals two separate migrations. The oldest is now limited to offshore islands and adjacent coastal areas. The second covers the whole two continents. This has been interpreted as the first culture timidly keeping to the shore. mollwollfumble is more inclined to believe that the second migration wholesale slaughtered the first and the first only survived at all on the islands by being better seamen.

Now back to “the Ice bridge”.

> the Solutrean hypothesis, base it on the claim that the North American Clovis stone spear points are the technological descendants of a subset of those made by the Upper Paleolithic southwestern European Solutrean peoples. Specifically they cite fact that both are made by a technique known as “overshot” flaking as evidence for their common origin. From this starting point, Bradley and Stanford propose a hyperdiffusionist scenario in which a group of Solutreans migrated across the Atlantic Ocean to North America via an “ice bridge” approximately 20,000 years before present (YBP).

Oh, I see, they’re claiming that CLOVIS people came from southwest Europe. Nope. Basing a whole migratory hypothesis on a similarity of flaking techniques is nearly as ridiculous as Menzies basing a theory that the Chinese discovered South America in 1421 based on the similarity of sound that chickens make when they crow.

I thought the “out of Europe” hypothesis had been thoroughly debunked already by DNA sequencing which flags every American native population as descended from East Asian or Siberian ancestors., and none at all from Europe. There may have been several waves of migration from the east, be it by Beringia or by a shore-hopping route.

party_pants said:

I thought the “out of Europe” hypothesis had been thoroughly debunked already by DNA sequencing which flags every American native population as descended from East Asian or Siberian ancestors., and none at all from Europe. There may have been several waves of migration from the east, be it by Beringia or by a shore-hopping route.

Yeah, if a TV program can be made about this then perhaps one could be made about my “aquatic Tyrannosaurus” hypothesis.

mollwollfumble said:

party_pants said:

I thought the “out of Europe” hypothesis had been thoroughly debunked already by DNA sequencing which flags every American native population as descended from East Asian or Siberian ancestors., and none at all from Europe. There may have been several waves of migration from the east, be it by Beringia or by a shore-hopping route.

Yeah, if a TV program can be made about this then perhaps one could be made about my “aquatic Tyrannosaurus” hypothesis.

Only if it made a noise similar to an east-Asian chicken :)

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

party_pants said:

I thought the “out of Europe” hypothesis had been thoroughly debunked already by DNA sequencing which flags every American native population as descended from East Asian or Siberian ancestors., and none at all from Europe. There may have been several waves of migration from the east, be it by Beringia or by a shore-hopping route.

Yeah, if a TV program can be made about this then perhaps one could be made about my “aquatic Tyrannosaurus” hypothesis.

Only if it made a noise similar to an east-Asian chicken :)

Chickens, Sweet Potatoes, and Polynesians in Brazil

v KLK 2 View Further Theories v

mollwollfumble said:

Now back to “the Ice bridge”.

> the Solutrean hypothesis, base it on the claim that the North American Clovis stone spear points are the technological descendants of a subset of those made by the Upper Paleolithic southwestern European Solutrean peoples. Specifically they cite fact that both are made by a technique known as “overshot” flaking as evidence for their common origin. From this starting point, Bradley and Stanford propose a hyperdiffusionist scenario in which a group of Solutreans migrated across the Atlantic Ocean to North America via an “ice bridge” approximately 20,000 years before present (YBP).

Oh, I see, they’re claiming that CLOVIS people came from southwest Europe. Nope. Basing a whole migratory hypothesis on a similarity of flaking techniques is nearly as ridiculous as Menzies basing a theory that the Chinese discovered South America in 1421 based on the similarity of sound that chickens make when they crow.

Apart from the obvious possibility that the particular stone technology may have been developed independently, surely it is possible that it was taken to N America via Asia, rather than direct migration from Europe.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Now back to “the Ice bridge”.

> the Solutrean hypothesis, base it on the claim that the North American Clovis stone spear points are the technological descendants of a subset of those made by the Upper Paleolithic southwestern European Solutrean peoples. Specifically they cite fact that both are made by a technique known as “overshot” flaking as evidence for their common origin. From this starting point, Bradley and Stanford propose a hyperdiffusionist scenario in which a group of Solutreans migrated across the Atlantic Ocean to North America via an “ice bridge” approximately 20,000 years before present (YBP).

Oh, I see, they’re claiming that CLOVIS people came from southwest Europe. Nope. Basing a whole migratory hypothesis on a similarity of flaking techniques is nearly as ridiculous as Menzies basing a theory that the Chinese discovered South America in 1421 based on the similarity of sound that chickens make when they crow.

Apart from the obvious possibility that the particular stone technology may have been developed independently, surely it is possible that it was taken to N America via Asia, rather than direct migration from Europe.

This.

I started watching it by mistake :)