Bill Sherwood and I have started talking about a pressure vessel for hydrogen storage. He may have solved the hydrogen embrittlement problem by using a hydrogen-resistant lining.

Just how strong can a material be, to have an allowable stress in tension capable of taking pressures of 250, 500, 750, or 1000 bars?

According to my materials science book … hold on, (checking appendix)

• tungsten carbide has a quoted yield stress of up to 6833 MPa
• some other ceramics up to 5500 MPa
• titanium alloys up to 1245 MPa
• steel up to 1155 MPa
• nickel alloys up to 1100 MPa
• carbon fibre composite up to 1050 MPa
• aluminium alloys up to 1000 MPa

Consider these figures to be approximate, and not necessarily of non-brittle material.

What’s the strongest material in tension these days?
How can it be built up into a super-strong bulk material?
What would you make a hydrogen-containing pressure vessel out of, assuming it can be protected against all forms of knocks?

Water is 1000 g/litre, so even at maximum compression the density of cooled or compressed hydrogen is 10 times as small.
PS, I’ve occasionally wondered how strong a manganese alloy could be, manganese is added to steel to make it stronger.

mollwollfumble said:

Bill Sherwood and I have started talking about a pressure vessel for hydrogen storage. He may have solved the hydrogen embrittlement problem by using a hydrogen-resistant lining.

Just how strong can a material be, to have an allowable stress in tension capable of taking pressures of 250, 500, 750, or 1000 bars?

According to my materials science book … hold on, (checking appendix)

• tungsten carbide has a quoted yield stress of up to 6833 MPa
• some other ceramics up to 5500 MPa
• titanium alloys up to 1245 MPa
• steel up to 1155 MPa
• nickel alloys up to 1100 MPa
• carbon fibre composite up to 1050 MPa
• aluminium alloys up to 1000 MPa

Consider these figures to be approximate, and not necessarily of non-brittle material.

What’s the strongest material in tension these days?
How can it be built up into a super-strong bulk material?
What would you make a hydrogen-containing pressure vessel out of, assuming it can be protected against all forms of knocks?

Water is 1000 g/litre, so even at maximum compression the density of cooled or compressed hydrogen is 10 times as small.
PS, I’ve occasionally wondered how strong a manganese alloy could be, manganese is added to steel to make it stronger.

Oh dang it, must have only previewed the last post rather than posting it.
Anyway, strongest in tension may be carbon nanotubes 100 GPa.
Inducing radiation ramage welds those together 17 GPa.
Looking up ceramics as an alternative reinforcing agent and didn’t find anything useful yet.

What is the current state of the art for hydrogen storage?

mollwollfumble said:

What is the current state of the art for hydrogen storage?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_tank
Article doesn’t say thickness or weight.

Type I Metal tank (steel/aluminum)
Approximate maximum pressure, aluminum 175 bars, steel 200 bars

Type II Metal tank (aluminum) with filament windings like glass fiber/aramid or carbon fiber around the metal cylinder. See composite overwrapped pressure vessel.
Approximate maximum pressure, aluminum/glass 263 bars, steel/carbon or aramide 299 bars.

Type III Tanks made from composite material, fiberglass/aramid or carbon fiber with a metal liner (aluminum or steel). See metal matrix composite.
Approximate maximum pressure, aluminum/glass 305 bars, aluminum/aramide 438 bars, aluminium/ carbon 700 bars.

Type IV, Type IV tanks are the Toyota FCHV, Mercedes-Benz F-Cell and the GM HydroGen4. The first type IV hydrogen tanks for compressed hydrogen at 700 bars were demonstrated in 2001.
Composite tanks such of carbon fiber with a polymer liner (thermoplastic). See rotational molding and fibre-reinforced plastic.
Approximate maximum pressure 700 bars.

Type V All-composite, linerless Type V tank.

“Composites Technology Development’s (CTD, Lafayette, Colo.) linerless (Type V) pressure vessels are made from the company’s KIBOKO epoxy-based toughened resins and filament-wound or tape-placed carbon fiber or glass. They are 15 to 20 percent lighter than their Type IV cousins (plastic-lined composite vessels). The company’s first commercial model (pictured here) was installed on the U.S. Air Force’s FASTRAC satellite launched in 2010”

“The evolution of vessels and tanks designed to hold liquids and gases under pressure has proceeded through four distinct stages: all-metal tanks (Type I), metal hoop-wrapped composite tanks (Type II), metal-lined composite tanks (Type III) and plastic-lined composite tanks (Type IV). The fifth stage, an all-composite, linerless Type V tank has been the pressure vessel industry’s Holy Grail for years”

This, now ancient, tank from 2010 was only operated at relatively low pressure, allowable pressure 69 bar, at 152 mm diameter it weighed a tiny 0.2 kg. This tank was actually built by Uni students.

From an article way back in 2012. https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/next-generation-pressure-vessels

All this stuff about Type V pressure vessels seems quite hush hush, presumably because it has military applications. Or perhaps because they rely on word of mouth for sales. One important website describing the technology has been taken down.

The best web guide from the manufacturer seems to be http://www.ctd-materials.com/engineered-materials/kiboko/emerging-products/ which says nothing about strength or weight.

U.S. Patent: 8,074,826B2 applies. Patent granted 2011. “A linerless tank structure has a body that defines an enclosed interior volume. The body has a cylindrical section having an axis of symmetry and a dome section coupled with the cylindrical section. The construction of the pressure vessel includes multiple fiber plies. At least one of the fiber plies is a helical ply having fibers traversing the dome helically about the axis of symmetry. At least a second of the fiber plies is a braided or woven ply.”

There’s a huge variety in carbon fibres. Teijin carbon produces carbon fibres with strength up to 6 GPa.

Torayca now produces fibre T1100G with a strength of 7 GPa.

http://www.torayca.com/en/download/pdf/torayca_t1100g.pdf

Mitsubishi produces M70 with a strength of 7 GPa.

http://mccfc.com/pan-fiber/

Strength can affect bonding to adhesive matrix.

PS. The wiki article on carbon fibres is very badly wrong when talking about strength, stiffness, orientation and origins, so bad that it would take a major effort to fix.

Video of how to make a large carbon composite hydrogen storage tank. By “large”, I mean 5.5 metres in diameter. Low temperature, unsure of pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc52ssQ65cU

This is what happens to “COPV (composite overwrapped pressure vessel) tanks from a Centaur rocket body” after reentry in to the Earth’s atmosphere. They were black spheres one meter in diameter, weighing about 20 kg.

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/space-debris/falling-satellite/mystery-of-rocket-tank-re-entry-over-spain-solved/

These spheres carry helium at pressure. They are made of a carbon/epoxy composite overwrap enveloping a stainless steel or aluminum liner. These spheres are charged to 275 bar prior to liftoff.

mollwollfumble said:

Bill Sherwood and I have started talking about a pressure vessel for hydrogen storage. He may have solved the hydrogen embrittlement problem by using a hydrogen-resistant lining.

Just how strong can a material be, to have an allowable stress in tension capable of taking pressures of 250, 500, 750, or 1000 bars?

According to my materials science book … hold on, (checking appendix)

• tungsten carbide has a quoted yield stress of up to 6833 MPa
• some other ceramics up to 5500 MPa
• titanium alloys up to 1245 MPa
• steel up to 1155 MPa
• nickel alloys up to 1100 MPa
• carbon fibre composite up to 1050 MPa
• aluminium alloys up to 1000 MPa

Consider these figures to be approximate, and not necessarily of non-brittle material.

What’s the strongest material in tension these days?
How can it be built up into a super-strong bulk material?
What would you make a hydrogen-containing pressure vessel out of, assuming it can be protected against all forms of knocks?

Just a thought. Checked it up.

Asbestos fibres have a tensile strength near 10,000 MPa.

Time to bring back asbestos?

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Bill Sherwood and I have started talking about a pressure vessel for hydrogen storage. He may have solved the hydrogen embrittlement problem by using a hydrogen-resistant lining.

Just how strong can a material be, to have an allowable stress in tension capable of taking pressures of 250, 500, 750, or 1000 bars?

According to my materials science book … hold on, (checking appendix)

• tungsten carbide has a quoted yield stress of up to 6833 MPa
• some other ceramics up to 5500 MPa
• titanium alloys up to 1245 MPa
• steel up to 1155 MPa
• nickel alloys up to 1100 MPa
• carbon fibre composite up to 1050 MPa
• aluminium alloys up to 1000 MPa

Consider these figures to be approximate, and not necessarily of non-brittle material.

What’s the strongest material in tension these days?
How can it be built up into a super-strong bulk material?
What would you make a hydrogen-containing pressure vessel out of, assuming it can be protected against all forms of knocks?

Just a thought. Checked it up.

Asbestos fibres have a tensile strength near 10,000 MPa.

Time to bring back asbestos?

Crocidolite, crysotile or amosite?