If you didn’t have the means to make new cars/trucks, etc how long could you maintain existing ones if you had lots of spares parts and the ability/knowledge to repair them.

Often in post apocalypse tv shows or movies they still have working cars often decades or centuries after society ended.

How long is a reasonable expectation for them to work in reality, I’d have though only a decade or two at most before parts have decayed beyond saving

Forget the fact they have petrol which is another matter entirely

Cuba have thousands of 1940s and 1950s American cars that are still going strong.

Not sure how long the modern ones would last with all their fancy electronics.

Cymek said:

If you didn’t have the means to make new cars/trucks, etc how long could you maintain existing ones if you had lots of spares parts and the ability/knowledge to repair them.

Often in post apocalypse tv shows or movies they still have working cars often decades or centuries after society ended.

How long is a reasonable expectation for them to work in reality, I’d have though only a decade or two at most before parts have decayed beyond saving

Forget the fact they have petrol which is another matter entirely

Lots of classic cars still on the road in Cuba because of bans on imported cars and parts.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

If you didn’t have the means to make new cars/trucks, etc how long could you maintain existing ones if you had lots of spares parts and the ability/knowledge to repair them.

Often in post apocalypse tv shows or movies they still have working cars often decades or centuries after society ended.

How long is a reasonable expectation for them to work in reality, I’d have though only a decade or two at most before parts have decayed beyond saving

Forget the fact they have petrol which is another matter entirely

Lots of classic cars still on the road in Cuba because of bans on imported cars and parts.

Some years back, i asked a bloke who owned a vintage car (car would be about 100 years old now) about the difficulties entailed. I said that spare parts must be a bugger to get, and he said, no, it’s not nearly as difficult as you might think, and that tyre companies even still manufacture suitable tyres.

It’s presumably today’s cars that would be more difficult to keep on the road in such a scenario, because of all the electronics.

Bubblecar said:

It’s presumably today’s cars that would be more difficult to keep on the road in such a scenario, because of all the electronics.

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s presumably today’s cars that would be more difficult to keep on the road in such a scenario, because of all the electronics.

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

The electronics would probably stuff that up.

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s presumably today’s cars that would be more difficult to keep on the road in such a scenario, because of all the electronics.

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

So you could possibly keep a car running for centuries if it was looked after

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s presumably today’s cars that would be more difficult to keep on the road in such a scenario, because of all the electronics.

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

The electronics would probably stuff that up.

Ands so too with the Kettering-ignition motor car. The points, condenser and the ignition coil all deteriorate with time.

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

The electronics would probably stuff that up.

Ands so too with the Kettering-ignition motor car. The points, condenser and the ignition coil all deteriorate with time.

It’s me being picky as often in these shows too much is in good conditions centuries later.
In this particular show its supposedly 500 years after a war that destroyed modern society.
They still have cars and trucks that work

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

Michael V said:

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

The electronics would probably stuff that up.

Ands so too with the Kettering-ignition motor car. The points, condenser and the ignition coil all deteriorate with time.

You’d need to be able to make those key spares I’m thinking. Some kind of light industrial capacity using recycled metals, but not the heavy industry involved in producing steel and mass producing cars in a factory.

I suspect an older style diesel (not direct injection) with the mechanical injection pumps would probably run for as long as it physically was intact enough to drive- they could run on vege oils in most climates, have no need of any electric power at all if you can park them on a hill and drive them in daylight only, and need little in the way of spares parts (no points etc) until the engine is physically worn out (and that could be 1/2 million k m or more

Cymek said:

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s presumably today’s cars that would be more difficult to keep on the road in such a scenario, because of all the electronics.

In terms of distance travelled vs number of repairs, modern motor cars win hands down. If one only did a thousand kilometres each year (about what one might expect from a vintage motor car), a modern car could last for 300+ years.

So you could possibly keep a car running for centuries if it was looked after

No, I don’t think so. Vintage vehicles are kept alive by re-manufacturing new parts for them. Even with a modern car one would still need manufacturing skills etc to keep them going.

Cymek said:

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

The electronics would probably stuff that up.

Ands so too with the Kettering-ignition motor car. The points, condenser and the ignition coil all deteriorate with time.

It’s me being picky as often in these shows too much is in good conditions centuries later.
In this particular show its supposedly 500 years after a war that destroyed modern society.
They still have cars and trucks that work

It’s a fantasy. Fantasies rely on suspension of portions of factual accuracy.

boppa said:

I suspect an older style diesel (not direct injection) with the mechanical injection pumps would probably run for as long as it physically was intact enough to drive- they could run on vege oils in most climates, have no need of any electric power at all if you can park them on a hill and drive them in daylight only, and need little in the way of spares parts (no points etc) until the engine is physically worn out (and that could be 1/2 million k m or more

That’s reasonable.

Why not direct injection? Indirect injection (with their pre-combustion chambers etc) often require glow-plugs.

party_pants said:

Michael V said:

sibeen said:

The electronics would probably stuff that up.

Ands so too with the Kettering-ignition motor car. The points, condenser and the ignition coil all deteriorate with time.

You’d need to be able to make those key spares I’m thinking. Some kind of light industrial capacity using recycled metals, but not the heavy industry involved in producing steel and mass producing cars in a factory.

Yes.

di requires electronics etc- dubious longterm (500 years??) reliability (plus they clag up easily, look at the new toyotas- 1 bad dose of water in the fuel) and they cost $$$ to repair- plus they wont run happily (or at all) on anything but the cleanest of diesel fuel- old bangers like 80’s toyotas (and mercs in particular from the 70’s/80’s) can run on practically anything- including homemade biofuels, or even just filtered old chip oils… so fuel becomes less of an issue

boppa said:

di requires electronics etc- dubious longterm (500 years??) reliability (plus they clag up easily, look at the new toyotas- 1 bad dose of water in the fuel) and they cost $$$ to repair- plus they wont run happily (or at all) on anything but the cleanest of diesel fuel- old bangers like 80’s toyotas (and mercs in particular from the 70’s/80’s) can run on practically anything- including homemade biofuels, or even just filtered old chip oils… so fuel becomes less of an issue

Obviously we have different definitions.

Indirect injection – pre-combustion chamber (usually with glow plug) – wider power band but more difficult to control emissions. Mechanical.

Direct injection – no pre-combustion chamber – injection directly into main combustion chamber. Usually no need for glow plug. Narrow power band, low emissions. Mechanical. eg Lister stationary engines, older truck and bus engines etc.

Electronically-controlled injection – modern stuff.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Lots of classic cars still on the road in Cuba because of bans on imported cars and parts.

I’ve been to Havana a few times and the story that there’s lot of old US cars still running around didn’t seem to be the case from what I saw. The vast majority of cars were newer French cars; Peugeot, Renault, etc. There were the occasional old US contraption, but not so many in reality.

FWIW modern cars are vastly more reliable than the older carby-fed ones, but the older ones are easier to fix. If I had a suitable supply of spares I could keep any of my cars going for as long as I wanted to.

Spiny Norman said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Lots of classic cars still on the road in Cuba because of bans on imported cars and parts.

I’ve been to Havana a few times and the story that there’s lot of old US cars still running around didn’t seem to be the case from what I saw. The vast majority of cars were newer French cars; Peugeot, Renault, etc. There were the occasional old US contraption, but not so many in reality.

I think it was P.J. O’Rourke who wrote that the (then) East Germans had supplied trucks to Cuba. The German ‘brand’ was IFA, which the Cubans claimed stood for ‘imposible de frenar a tiempo’ ((‘impossible to brake in time’).

I was talking about commonrail direct injection systems with electronic injectors (newer diesels late 80’s onwards in most cases) against the older mechanical (inline or rotary) mechanical pumps with mechanical injectors (pre late 80’s)
Those older ones need very little to keep running, not even elecs so batterys/alternators etc etc are unness as long as you can rollstart it, they run on practically anything so you could grow your own biofuels easily (or use contaminated diesels that would kill a comonrail DI in quick order)

These could in theory run as long as you could keep the engine going and the body didnt rust apart completely, where any modern petrol or diesel would imho be dead quite quickly without access to spares, clean fuel etc

Cymek said:

If you didn’t have the means to make new cars/trucks, etc how long could you maintain existing ones if you had lots of spares parts and the ability/knowledge to repair them.

Often in post apocalypse tv shows or movies they still have working cars often decades or centuries after society ended.

How long is a reasonable expectation for them to work in reality, I’d have though only a decade or two at most before parts have decayed beyond saving

Forget the fact they have petrol which is another matter entirely

Let’s measure “how long” in miles on the original odometer. It’s a fascinating question.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/these-are-7-highest-mileage-cars-listed-autotrader-256616

The five highest mileage cars for sale ( in the USA ) Aug 2016.

• 2006 Lincoln Town Car Limousine: 429,657 Miles
• 2006 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Flatbed: 438,475 Miles
• 2005 Toyota Tacoma: 445,000 Miles
• 2000 Ford F-350: 470,012 Miles – enormous number of scratches and dents.
• 1995 Mazda B2300: 471,000 Miles
• 2006 Honda Accord: 487,337 Miles
• 2006 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD: 580,000 Miles

In most post apocalyptic scenarios there are enormous amounts of spares lying around. I don’t think engines will be an issue. The first concern after the zombies attack would be petrol supplies, lots of them in underground tanks, if a semblance of society rises there will eventually be trading from left over supplies in refinerys or even stranded container ships.

First things to fail, especially after winter will be batteries and this will be whilst motors are still going strong so an alternative to them will need to be found. A longer term problem will be the degradation of tyres, lots in stock but they do perish and unlike engine parts after a while can it be scavenged but need to be made. You might end up running over zombies with a sort of cart wheel equipped car.

AwesomeO said:

In most post apocalyptic scenarios there are enormous amounts of spares lying around. I don’t think engines will be an issue. The first concern after the zombies attack would be petrol supplies, lots of them in underground tanks, if a semblance of society rises there will eventually be trading from left over supplies in refinerys or even stranded container ships.

First things to fail, especially after winter will be batteries and this will be whilst motors are still going strong so an alternative to them will need to be found. A longer term problem will be the degradation of tyres, lots in stock but they do perish and unlike engine parts after a while can it be scavenged but need to be made. You might end up running over zombies with a sort of cart wheel equipped car.

I thought petrol went off after a period of time?

sibeen said:

AwesomeO said:

In most post apocalyptic scenarios there are enormous amounts of spares lying around. I don’t think engines will be an issue. The first concern after the zombies attack would be petrol supplies, lots of them in underground tanks, if a semblance of society rises there will eventually be trading from left over supplies in refinerys or even stranded container ships.

First things to fail, especially after winter will be batteries and this will be whilst motors are still going strong so an alternative to them will need to be found. A longer term problem will be the degradation of tyres, lots in stock but they do perish and unlike engine parts after a while can it be scavenged but need to be made. You might end up running over zombies with a sort of cart wheel equipped car.

I thought petrol went off after a period of time?

Maybe for optimum running but I would think even ancient petrol will burn. Also alcohol would be pretty easy to manufacture, easier than tyres that’s for sure.

More long distance cars, these from car clubs, a lot of effort gone into restoration here.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobiles/going-the-distance-7-cars-that-have-gone-1m-miles.html/

• 1970 Mercedes-Benz 280SE. 1.01 million miles.
• 1994 Honda Accord. 1.08 million miles (odometer broke at 400,000 miles)
• 1991 Honda Accord. 1.16 million miles.
• 2006 Ford F-250. 1.2 million miles (original engine died at 400,000 miles)
• 2006 Chevrolet Silverado 3500. 1.22 million miles.
• 1966 Mercedes-Benz 250SE. 1.28 million miles (car was babied for life)
• 1991 Chevy Silverado. 1.29 million miles (special aftermarket undercarriage protection)
• 1983 Lincoln Town Car 1.3 million miles (never broke down but He had Lincoln replace every part with a lifetime guarantee and was obsessive about tune-ups and maintenance).
• 1963 Volkswagen Beetle 1.61 million miles (engine replaced seven times).
• 1963 Plymouth Fury 1.62 million miles (totalled in a car accident)
• 1979 Volvo 245 GL 1.63 million miles
• 1976 Mercedes-Benz 240D 2.85 million miles. (Acknowledged by Mercedes as its longest milage car).
• 1966 Volvo P1800 3.04 million miles (Guinness World Record).

Some vehicles would survive better than others.

The Smashed Hilux on Top Gear. It is a red Toyota Hilux pickup truck.

The Toyota was purchased from a farmyard by Clarkson, who began to try and kill it (to be classed as dead, you had to not be able to start the engine or drive it). He drove it down some steps, very carelessly drove it around Bristol, and into a tree. It was pretty much unscathed, the only damage being to the bonnet, which folded in after it plowed into the tree. Clarkson then attempted to drown the car in the Bristol Channel. This seemed to work, but amazingly, despite no spare parts, the mechanic got it working again after clearing away all the silt. The only damage done to it, was the windscreen coming off of it. Clarkson soon took it to the test track where he had it dropped from a crane, crashed it through the production office after replacing the windscreen and then dropping a caravan on it, which only suceeded in making it impossible to open the doors and pushing the roof in. Jeremy’s final attempts were hitting it with a wrecking ball and setting fire to it. Astonishingly, it survived.

Following Clarkson’s failure to kill it, James May stepped in. He decided to place it on top of a 23-storey tower block about to be demolished. While the exterior and chassis were damaged to the point where the bodywork was holding the chassis and you could barely recognise the pickup, the mechanic (again, using no spare parts and only simple tools) “reconnected the battery, put a bit of diesel in it, brum. Off it went.” Clarkson, after surveying the damage, suggested that they build a plinth to honour the Hilux for all time.

mollwollfumble said:

Some vehicles would survive better than others.

The Smashed Hilux on Top Gear. It is a red Toyota Hilux pickup truck.

The Toyota was purchased from a farmyard by Clarkson, who began to try and kill it (to be classed as dead, you had to not be able to start the engine or drive it). He drove it down some steps, very carelessly drove it around Bristol, and into a tree. It was pretty much unscathed, the only damage being to the bonnet, which folded in after it plowed into the tree. Clarkson then attempted to drown the car in the Bristol Channel. This seemed to work, but amazingly, despite no spare parts, the mechanic got it working again after clearing away all the silt. The only damage done to it, was the windscreen coming off of it. Clarkson soon took it to the test track where he had it dropped from a crane, crashed it through the production office after replacing the windscreen and then dropping a caravan on it, which only suceeded in making it impossible to open the doors and pushing the roof in. Jeremy’s final attempts were hitting it with a wrecking ball and setting fire to it. Astonishingly, it survived.

Following Clarkson’s failure to kill it, James May stepped in. He decided to place it on top of a 23-storey tower block about to be demolished. While the exterior and chassis were damaged to the point where the bodywork was holding the chassis and you could barely recognise the pickup, the mechanic (again, using no spare parts and only simple tools) “reconnected the battery, put a bit of diesel in it, brum. Off it went.” Clarkson, after surveying the damage, suggested that they build a plinth to honour the Hilux for all time.

I bought a Landrover once, swapped back to Toyota long before the year was out. There is a reason why most rural people drive them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Funnily enough, it might be easier to keep an older vehicle maintained (if, as you say, you have an unlimited supply of parts).

The old Benz Patent-Motorwagen had parts you could probably replicate with a small team in a workshop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._A._Andrée%27s_Arctic_Balloon_Expedition_of_1897

dv said:

Funnily enough, it might be easier to keep an older vehicle maintained (if, as you say, you have an unlimited supply of parts).

The old Benz Patent-Motorwagen had parts you could probably replicate with a small team in a workshop.

I was reading about the Bantam, which was the original jeep, they were described as unkillable, very over engineered and under stressed engine of modest power, pressed panels, and like a lot of cars of that era, most parts…if not all can be fabricated. Probably had a magneto as well so no battery required.