Date: 18/09/2018 22:39:33
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1278058
Subject: Gender... beauty... Bias

Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/09/2018 22:43:39
From: Woodie
ID: 1278059
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

I’m attractive and they’ve never sent me to jail. So yes, there is something to your hypothesis. :)

Reply Quote

Date: 18/09/2018 22:45:48
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1278060
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Woodie said:


I’m attractive and they’ve never sent me to jail. So yes, there is something to your hypothesis. :)

Good to hear. :)

I suppose another question could be are people more likely to give a second chance to a person who is perceived to be attractive?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/09/2018 22:55:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1278061
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

There is discrimination in the courts when members of a jury discriminate against how a person looks or talks

say someone who looks eccentric or speakers in a gravelly rough sounding voice

Reply Quote

Date: 18/09/2018 22:56:47
From: monkey skipper
ID: 1278062
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Actual this is a good example , In highschool (80’s) the rule in my generation was girls 13 years and upward could not receive the cane , where as the boys could. Which is interesting because girls under 13 were permitted to be caned alongside the boys.

However if you caned a coworker ( teenager to adult) that would have been assault back then and now.

The bias here is age and then gender but gender is irrelevant when you become a young adult and an adult.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 00:35:04
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1278065
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

monkey skipper said:


Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 03:37:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1278073
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

PermeateFree said:


monkey skipper said:

Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Even the attractive blacks?

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 03:41:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1278075
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

monkey skipper said:

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Physical or otherwise?

When a mind or a psyche is attractive, is physical appearance diminished in importance or is it that the other aspects can improve the visual perception?.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 08:24:03
From: Divine Angel
ID: 1278094
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

monkey skipper said:

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Historically speaking, well… it depends. The nature of the crime, the country they live in, the era they live in all have influences on the appropriate punishments.

For example, a woman found guilty of adultery in Afghanistan is likely to be stoned to death whereas a man might only be imprisoned or not punished at all.

I haven’t read the whole thread, and Arts would be the best person to answer as to why and give examples. All I know is, no there is not generally gender parity in terms of punishments. However, I did find a couple of links supporting the hypothesis that women generally receive lighter sentences in western countries.
https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx
https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/do-women-get-lighter-sentences-than-men/

Schapelle Corby’s 20 year sentence rather than death was partly inspired by her age.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/05/25/schapelle-corby-narrowly-escaped-the-death-penalty-bali-prosecu_a_22108312/

It is less likely a woman will commit crimes resulting in the death penalty (in America currently, but also England and Australia in the past). It has been alleged that women can offer a little something in return for a reduced sentence. The musical Chicago is actually a satire of this process and how the media can sway the public’s view of women and their crimes.

In Amanda Howard’s book Rope, she gives examples of women sentenced to be hanged. There are not nearly as many women sentenced to death as men, and their executions generally drew bigger crowds and were often less successful than men’s executions. Partly because women are generally smaller than males and the weight factors weren’t taken into consideration when hanging.

American serial killer Aileen Wuornos was remarkable because she was a woman committing crimes usually attributed to men. She was also poor, unattractive and brash. Charlize Theron won an Oscar for playing her in the film Monster. Similarly, there have been dozens of documentaries featuring her because of her gender and atrocities of crimes. She was still sentenced to death and executed for those crimes.

Something I do know for sure is that reporting of gender bias crimes in the media is heavily influenced by attractiveness, gender, socioeconomic factors and the potential goryness of the case.

For instance, Laci Petersen’s disappearance was heavily reported in American media. She was white, young, attractive, pregnant, well-off and had a husband who looks like Ben Affleck. These were all reasons her disappearance was so heavily followed.

Laci’s body and that of her fetus were found in a Californian bay, and her hubby charged with double murder. He’s now on death row. It was a sensationalised case by the media, who thrived on the gritty details of his mistress, lies and the unprecedented decision to charge Scott with not only the murder of his wife Laci but their unborn child Connor as well.

Schapelle Corby’s case was so highly publicised due to her age, looks, and the bogan chic imparted by her and the family. Not nearly the same coverage is given to Renae Lawrence, for example.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 09:16:37
From: Arts
ID: 1278101
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

the problem with your hypothesis is that it is rare that two people committing the same crime, regardless of gender, will garner the same sentence. Our system allows for mitigating circumstances to be taken into account (with the exception of mandatory sentencing, that requires a set or minimum term) allowing for vastly varying sentences even with two people who committed the crime as a duo.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 09:56:31
From: Arts
ID: 1278108
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Divine Angel said:


monkey skipper said:

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Historically speaking, well… it depends. The nature of the crime, the country they live in, the era they live in all have influences on the appropriate punishments.

For example, a woman found guilty of adultery in Afghanistan is likely to be stoned to death whereas a man might only be imprisoned or not punished at all.

I haven’t read the whole thread, and Arts would be the best person to answer as to why and give examples. All I know is, no there is not generally gender parity in terms of punishments. However, I did find a couple of links supporting the hypothesis that women generally receive lighter sentences in western countries.
https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx
https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/do-women-get-lighter-sentences-than-men/

Schapelle Corby’s 20 year sentence rather than death was partly inspired by her age.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/05/25/schapelle-corby-narrowly-escaped-the-death-penalty-bali-prosecu_a_22108312/

It is less likely a woman will commit crimes resulting in the death penalty (in America currently, but also England and Australia in the past). It has been alleged that women can offer a little something in return for a reduced sentence. The musical Chicago is actually a satire of this process and how the media can sway the public’s view of women and their crimes.

In Amanda Howard’s book Rope, she gives examples of women sentenced to be hanged. There are not nearly as many women sentenced to death as men, and their executions generally drew bigger crowds and were often less successful than men’s executions. Partly because women are generally smaller than males and the weight factors weren’t taken into consideration when hanging.

American serial killer Aileen Wuornos was remarkable because she was a woman committing crimes usually attributed to men. She was also poor, unattractive and brash. Charlize Theron won an Oscar for playing her in the film Monster. Similarly, there have been dozens of documentaries featuring her because of her gender and atrocities of crimes. She was still sentenced to death and executed for those crimes.

Something I do know for sure is that reporting of gender bias crimes in the media is heavily influenced by attractiveness, gender, socioeconomic factors and the potential goryness of the case.

For instance, Laci Petersen’s disappearance was heavily reported in American media. She was white, young, attractive, pregnant, well-off and had a husband who looks like Ben Affleck. These were all reasons her disappearance was so heavily followed.

Laci’s body and that of her fetus were found in a Californian bay, and her hubby charged with double murder. He’s now on death row. It was a sensationalised case by the media, who thrived on the gritty details of his mistress, lies and the unprecedented decision to charge Scott with not only the murder of his wife Laci but their unborn child Connor as well.

Schapelle Corby’s case was so highly publicised due to her age, looks, and the bogan chic imparted by her and the family. Not nearly the same coverage is given to Renae Lawrence, for example.

big women’s cases are highly publicised because they are a minority, it’s media gold. Men commit far more crimes than women and also the types of crimes they commit tend to be of a more sever sentencing nature.
Aileen Wuornos was interesting because she claimed self defense the whole time, saying that he men she killed raped her, she didn’t let up on that up until her death.
Shapelle was interesting because of many people thought that a. she was innocent/set up and/or b. marijuana is not considered a trafficable drug in the eyes of many lay people. While Lawrence was cartel-ling far harder drugs that people tend to think is a punishable crime. (though I agree that the media certainly grabbed the Corby thing more because of her looks)

The Laci Pettersen case was (and still is) an interesting case and I think it has more to do with the elements, as you mentioned, the young upwardly couple, she pregnant, he had lover, and also when she first went missing he was all “Oh find her, blah blah”

there is also a huge element of the victims families pushing the media wheelbarrow. Laci’s family were massive in this, as were the Morcombe family.

Jeremy Meeks was considered a ‘hot felon’ who still had to serve time (after a plea deal – also not unusual) would he have gotten a different sentence had he not been considered attractive? I have no idea, but not many people would have known or cared about it.

Plenty of attractive females still get given appropriate sentences for their crimes – Jodi Arias, Mary Kay Letourneau, Amanda Knox…

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:29:21
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1278229
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Even the attractive blacks?

Not many attractive blacks in jail.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:31:10
From: Tamb
ID: 1278231
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Even the attractive blacks?

Not many attractive blacks in jail.

I’m led to believe that standards of attractiveness are somewhat lowered in jail.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:36:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1278234
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

As a rough ruling, being attractive opens more doors for you, consequently they usually have more prospects and better chances to build themselves a good life. Those without these assets and with fewer opportunities, might be more tempted to a life of crime.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:38:19
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1278236
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Tamb said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Even the attractive blacks?

Not many attractive blacks in jail.

I’m led to believe that standards of attractiveness are somewhat lowered in jail.

Nobody wants to be someones bitch, so no real incentive.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:39:51
From: Cymek
ID: 1278238
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

PermeateFree said:


As a rough ruling, being attractive opens more doors for you, consequently they usually have more prospects and better chances to build themselves a good life. Those without these assets and with fewer opportunities, might be more tempted to a life of crime.

Even if you marry into money, the rich ugly or at least not overly attractive rich men usually have very attractive wives

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:45:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1278242
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

As a rough ruling, being attractive opens more doors for you, consequently they usually have more prospects and better chances to build themselves a good life. Those without these assets and with fewer opportunities, might be more tempted to a life of crime.

Even if you marry into money, the rich ugly or at least not overly attractive rich men usually have very attractive wives

Money is a very attractive asset.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:51:00
From: Cymek
ID: 1278246
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

As a rough ruling, being attractive opens more doors for you, consequently they usually have more prospects and better chances to build themselves a good life. Those without these assets and with fewer opportunities, might be more tempted to a life of crime.

Even if you marry into money, the rich ugly or at least not overly attractive rich men usually have very attractive wives

Money is a very attractive asset.

Yes

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:54:22
From: Tamb
ID: 1278247
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Even if you marry into money, the rich ugly or at least not overly attractive rich men usually have very attractive wives

Money is a very attractive asset.

Yes

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:56:00
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1278249
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

God was in good form when he designed women.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 14:58:06
From: Cymek
ID: 1278251
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Tamb said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Money is a very attractive asset.

Yes

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 15:01:57
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1278255
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

Yes

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

“Fergus Laing has 17 friends
All as dull as he is
His 17 friends have 17 wives
All the perfect shape and size
They wag their tails and bat their eyes
Just like Lassie”

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 15:11:27
From: Ian
ID: 1278263
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Eeper Weeper, chimney sweeper,
Had a wife but couldn’t keep her.
Had another, didn’t love her,
Up the chimney he did shove her.

Peter, Peter, pumpkin-eater,
Had a wife and couldn’t keep her;
He put her in a pumpkin shell,
And there he kept her very well.

.

The wife that “couldn’t be kept” in this rhyme didn’t keep running away or anything — rather, she was supposedly a prostitute. Historians believe that Peter the pumpkin-eater tired of his wife’s extra-curricular activities, then murdered her and hid her body in a pumpkin. An even more outrageous interpretation is that it’s about the 13th century English King John, who famously bricked a rebellious noble’s wife into a wall to starve to death. Either way, this is a rhyme that everybody at the time would have understood was ripped from the headlines.

.

I didn’t know that derivation. Or the first stanza for that matter.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:25:29
From: Arts
ID: 1278316
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

Yes

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:26:47
From: sibeen
ID: 1278317
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Us trophy husbands can have it just as bad, you know.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:28:25
From: Arts
ID: 1278319
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

sibeen said:


Arts said:

Cymek said:

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Us trophy husbands can have it just as bad, you know.

yeah all that beard trimming and latte drinking must really take it out of you

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:28:45
From: btm
ID: 1278320
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

sibeen said:


Us trophy husbands can have it just as bad, you know.

*We*

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:30:33
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1278321
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Always wondered at what stage in life someone is when they go to the IGA in ugg boots and tack pants.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:31:08
From: Cymek
ID: 1278322
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

That part is true as well.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:31:39
From: Cymek
ID: 1278323
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


sibeen said:

Arts said:

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Us trophy husbands can have it just as bad, you know.

yeah all that beard trimming and latte drinking must really take it out of you

Gotta work out to smash them avovados

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:31:53
From: Arts
ID: 1278324
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

poikilotherm said:


Arts said:

Cymek said:

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Always wondered at what stage in life someone is when they go to the IGA in ugg boots and tack pants.

the totally comfortable I don’t give a fuck anymore phase.. it’s awesome

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:32:26
From: Cymek
ID: 1278325
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

poikilotherm said:


Arts said:

Cymek said:

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Always wondered at what stage in life someone is when they go to the IGA in ugg boots and tack pants.

Comfortable maybe, I slob around when I’m not at work

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:35:28
From: party_pants
ID: 1278326
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Cymek said:

Tamb said:

Reminds me.
An ultra-feminist rellie said to me quite seriously “Money for a root is all evil.

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Thanks for that. I shall face the world with a new attitude now.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:36:23
From: Michael V
ID: 1278327
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

I don’t wear either ugg boots or trackie dacks.

I suppose my equivalent is stubbies and thongs…

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:37:15
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1278328
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


poikilotherm said:

Arts said:

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Always wondered at what stage in life someone is when they go to the IGA in ugg boots and tack pants.

the totally comfortable I don’t give a fuck anymore phase.. it’s awesome

so slob phase then.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:37:16
From: Arts
ID: 1278329
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Michael V said:


I don’t wear either ugg boots or trackie dacks.

I suppose my equivalent is stubbies and thongs…

well, we can’t all live in paradise

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:37:39
From: Arts
ID: 1278330
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

poikilotherm said:


Arts said:

poikilotherm said:

Always wondered at what stage in life someone is when they go to the IGA in ugg boots and tack pants.

the totally comfortable I don’t give a fuck anymore phase.. it’s awesome

so slob phase then.

I reject your reality and replace it with my own

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 16:38:58
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1278331
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


poikilotherm said:

Arts said:

the totally comfortable I don’t give a fuck anymore phase.. it’s awesome

so slob phase then.

I reject your reality and replace it with my own

That’s what clozapine is for ;)

Reply Quote

Date: 19/09/2018 17:56:37
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1278357
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

sibeen said:


Arts said:

Cymek said:

I wonder about that, you could marry into money and perhaps be a trophy but never have to work in your life or worry about money just look good or you could work hard in a job you don’t like for decades and have nothing much to show for it.

I reckon trophy wives work extremely hard.. there’s fitness regimes, preening, plucking, primping, clothes shopping, leg waxing, facials, manicures, the fight against aging… I mean it sounds like not traditional work, sure, but to me that sounds like a lot of hard work to keep up day in day out…. constantly being scrutinised, always having to look a certain way.. screw that.. Imagine not being able to pop to the local IGA for milk ugg boots and trackie pants….

Us atrophy husbands can have it just as bad, you know.

there, that’s better.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 12:45:24
From: Arts
ID: 1278601
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

PermeateFree said:


monkey skipper said:

Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Interestingly, my criminal psychology lecturer just pointed out that Aboriginal men tend to get a manslaughter charge instead of a murder charge (therefore a lesser sentence) when they perpetrate homicide in a DV situation. While their Caucasian male counterparts are more likely to be charged with murder.

This, of course, is in the overwhelmingly majority of homicide cases that occur intra racially.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 12:49:04
From: Cymek
ID: 1278602
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


PermeateFree said:

monkey skipper said:

Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Interestingly, my criminal psychology lecturer just pointed out that Aboriginal men tend to get a manslaughter charge instead of a murder charge (therefore a lesser sentence) when they perpetrate homicide in a DV situation. While their Caucasian male counterparts are more likely to be charged with murder.

This, of course, is in the overwhelmingly majority of homicide cases that occur intra racially.

I’ve noticed DV amongst Aboriginals seems to attract a lesser sentence, serious assaults resulting in really weak community orders.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 12:56:05
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1278603
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Interestingly, my criminal psychology lecturer just pointed out that Aboriginal men tend to get a manslaughter charge instead of a murder charge (therefore a lesser sentence) when they perpetrate homicide in a DV situation. While their Caucasian male counterparts are more likely to be charged with murder.

This, of course, is in the overwhelmingly majority of homicide cases that occur intra racially.

I’ve noticed DV amongst Aboriginals seems to attract a lesser sentence, serious assaults resulting in really weak community orders.

Probably their attempts to have ‘em not die in custody.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 12:57:59
From: Cymek
ID: 1278605
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

poikilotherm said:


Cymek said:

Arts said:

Interestingly, my criminal psychology lecturer just pointed out that Aboriginal men tend to get a manslaughter charge instead of a murder charge (therefore a lesser sentence) when they perpetrate homicide in a DV situation. While their Caucasian male counterparts are more likely to be charged with murder.

This, of course, is in the overwhelmingly majority of homicide cases that occur intra racially.

I’ve noticed DV amongst Aboriginals seems to attract a lesser sentence, serious assaults resulting in really weak community orders.

Probably their attempts to have ‘em not die in custody.

Or a strange racial bias as they are worried they will called racist for giving stricter sentences but it then comes across as Aboriginal people aren’t worthy of the same protection as others (not that violence attracts overly strict sentences anyway).

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:06:16
From: Arts
ID: 1278606
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


poikilotherm said:

Cymek said:

I’ve noticed DV amongst Aboriginals seems to attract a lesser sentence, serious assaults resulting in really weak community orders.

Probably their attempts to have ‘em not die in custody.

Or a strange racial bias as they are worried they will called racist for giving stricter sentences but it then comes across as Aboriginal people aren’t worthy of the same protection as others (not that violence attracts overly strict sentences anyway).

this is what is more highly speculated… the ‘value’ of the victim. Which puts aboriginal women at a huge disadvantage.

we see this at a lesser level in pure reporting.. attractive, white, female victims are in the media much more than the statistically higher proportion of indigenous female victims

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:14:48
From: Cymek
ID: 1278608
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

Probably their attempts to have ‘em not die in custody.

Or a strange racial bias as they are worried they will called racist for giving stricter sentences but it then comes across as Aboriginal people aren’t worthy of the same protection as others (not that violence attracts overly strict sentences anyway).

this is what is more highly speculated… the ‘value’ of the victim. Which puts aboriginal women at a huge disadvantage.

we see this at a lesser level in pure reporting.. attractive, white, female victims are in the media much more than the statistically higher proportion of indigenous female victims

Sadly it seems that perhaps many Aboriginal people (women in particular) accept violence is part of life, growing up and as an adult and you just has to put up with it as little other options exist.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:18:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 1278609
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

Attractiveness advantages individuals in most walks of life, including getting a job, advancement and salary. Blacks are commonly given harsher prison sentences than white people, especially in America.

Interestingly, my criminal psychology lecturer just pointed out that Aboriginal men tend to get a manslaughter charge instead of a murder charge (therefore a lesser sentence) when they perpetrate homicide in a DV situation. While their Caucasian male counterparts are more likely to be charged with murder.

This, of course, is in the overwhelmingly majority of homicide cases that occur intra racially.

I’ve noticed DV amongst Aboriginals seems to attract a lesser sentence, serious assaults resulting in really weak community orders.

It is possibly an allowance or deference for the fact that their culture is older and deeper with less white man legal manipulation.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:18:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1278610
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Cymek said:

poikilotherm said:

Probably their attempts to have ‘em not die in custody.

Or a strange racial bias as they are worried they will called racist for giving stricter sentences but it then comes across as Aboriginal people aren’t worthy of the same protection as others (not that violence attracts overly strict sentences anyway).

this is what is more highly speculated… the ‘value’ of the victim. Which puts aboriginal women at a huge disadvantage.

we see this at a lesser level in pure reporting.. attractive, white, female victims are in the media much more than the statistically higher proportion of indigenous female victims


I see your ppoint.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:19:48
From: Arts
ID: 1278612
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Arts said:

Cymek said:

Or a strange racial bias as they are worried they will called racist for giving stricter sentences but it then comes across as Aboriginal people aren’t worthy of the same protection as others (not that violence attracts overly strict sentences anyway).

this is what is more highly speculated… the ‘value’ of the victim. Which puts aboriginal women at a huge disadvantage.

we see this at a lesser level in pure reporting.. attractive, white, female victims are in the media much more than the statistically higher proportion of indigenous female victims

Sadly it seems that perhaps many Aboriginal people (women in particular) accept violence is part of life, growing up and as an adult and you just has to put up with it as little other options exist.

all true, however, as you know, a criminal offence is not against the victims, it is an offence against the state. So while generational or cultural acceptance might decrease the reporting, or even knowledge (as in the understanding that you are a victim of a crime) of said offence once the CJS has officiated, the disparity in the charges laid and resulting punishment is a reflection on how the system views the victim and/or accused.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:25:52
From: Divine Angel
ID: 1278614
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


all true, however, as you know, a criminal offence is not against the victims, it is an offence against the state.

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:32:55
From: Arts
ID: 1278619
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Divine Angel said:


Arts said:

all true, however, as you know, a criminal offence is not against the victims, it is an offence against the state.

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:35:19
From: Cymek
ID: 1278623
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Divine Angel said:

Arts said:

all true, however, as you know, a criminal offence is not against the victims, it is an offence against the state.

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

As a witness you then become hostile if you decided to withdrawn you statement.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:35:43
From: Divine Angel
ID: 1278624
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Ohhhhhh

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:35:56
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1278625
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Divine Angel said:

Arts said:

all true, however, as you know, a criminal offence is not against the victims, it is an offence against the state.

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:40:19
From: Arts
ID: 1278628
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Witty Rejoinder said:


Arts said:

Divine Angel said:

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:42:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1278631
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

You can try and claim criminal compensation but I am not sure how successful it is, often the courts order compensation to be paid to victims and other parties (eg banks) whether its repaid is a different matter.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:48:03
From: Arts
ID: 1278633
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

You can try and claim criminal compensation but I am not sure how successful it is, often the courts order compensation to be paid to victims and other parties (eg banks) whether its repaid is a different matter.

well, yes, that’s true. But that, as I understand it, becomes a financial liability for the people who activate the proceedings. We all (as tax payers) get charged for criminal court proceedings (because of the state prosecution thing), civil court ones are paid for by plaintiff (I believe) or maybe by the loser of the case.. I don’t know much about civil court systems.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:52:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1278635
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

I know but can’t you pursue any redress in civil court? Like the family of the victims did to OJ Simpson ?
Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 13:52:41
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1278636
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

You can try and claim criminal compensation but I am not sure how successful it is, often the courts order compensation to be paid to victims and other parties (eg banks) whether its repaid is a different matter.


Oh yeah. I see now.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 14:38:53
From: Michael V
ID: 1278649
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Arts said:


Divine Angel said:

Arts said:

all true, however, as you know, a criminal offence is not against the victims, it is an offence against the state.

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Well explained.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 14:44:47
From: Michael V
ID: 1278650
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Witty Rejoinder said:


Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

I know but can’t you pursue any redress in civil court? Like the family of the victims did to OJ Simpson ?

No.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 15:12:39
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1278651
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Michael V said:


Arts said:

Divine Angel said:

I can see how some crimes are against the state, such as this needles in strawberries deal, but surely some crimes are actually against the victim, like revenge murder.

crimes are a legal construct, so prosecution of them are by the state, on behalf of ‘the people’.

Eg. if you killed my sister you would be charged by the state.. I, as the victim, have no say in what your punishment should be. Victims don’t get a say because the crime is not actually against them, it is against the legal system. Also I, as a victim,cannot say to not prosecute.. the victim has no choice in the matter.

Victim impact statements are introduced (sometimes) as a way of seeming to give back some of the power, but they don’t have any impact in the final judgement.

Well explained.

That’s why the law is not overly concerned with justice.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 15:16:28
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1278652
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Michael V said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

civil courts deal with different matters

I know but can’t you pursue any redress in civil court? Like the family of the victims did to OJ Simpson ?

No.

Why do you say no?

If someone does something that causes you harm, then you can sue them for compensation, and the case will be decided on the balance of probability, rather than requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 15:19:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1278653
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

The Rev Dodgson said:


Michael V said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I know but can’t you pursue any redress in civil court? Like the family of the victims did to OJ Simpson ?

No.

Why do you say no?

If someone does something that causes you harm, then you can sue them for compensation, and the case will be decided on the balance of probability, rather than requiring proof beyond reasonable doubt.

The distinction that I had forgotten was that only monetary compensation is pertinent in the civil courts.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 15:48:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1278660
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Cymek said:


Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Can’t victims pursue perpetrators in civil court if need be?

civil courts deal with different matters

You can try and claim criminal compensation but I am not sure how successful it is, often the courts order compensation to be paid to victims and other parties (eg banks) whether its repaid is a different matter.


That’s why we have compensation lawyers.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 16:00:58
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1278670
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 16:15:45
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1278679
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

JudgeMental said:



I don’t know, why did the cookie go to the hospital?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 16:17:51
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1278682
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Bubblecar said:


JudgeMental said:


I don’t know, why did the cookie go to the hospital?

because it felt crummy.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 16:18:32
From: party_pants
ID: 1278683
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Bubblecar said:


JudgeMental said:

.

I don’t know, why did the cookie go to the hospital?

He was feeling crummy.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/09/2018 16:18:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1278684
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

Bubblecar said:


JudgeMental said:


I don’t know, why did the cookie go to the hospital?

multiple interpretations.

A mate of mine reckons he thinks of cricket scores.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/09/2018 13:45:37
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1279567
Subject: re: Gender... beauty... Bias

monkey skipper said:


Often people refer to racial bias .. in that two persons who commit the same offense may receive different levels of punishment due to racial bias. Whilst a modern society has legislation to safeguard us from prejudice it still exists.

Is this bias extended to gender and attractiveness too?

For example, if a male and female responsible for the same offense likely to get the same punishment?

Similarly are attractive people more likely to receive lesser punishment compared to unattractive persons?

Does attractiveness affect empathy ?

Criminals don’t like me on their Jury. Must have something to do with my appearance.

In terms of appearance, I once read a paper about the bias against people based on their teeth. People with good looking teeth get higher paid jobs.

Attractiveness and empathy may be a two-edged sword. But sense of humour affects empathy.

“Hermann Göring surprised many of those present at Nuremberg with his congenial persona and many witnesses confessed to ‘almost liking’ the Reichsmarschall. He had a wicked sense of humour.”

Reply Quote