Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable

Which seems to be in conflict with the sustainable 2-3 billion figure.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable

Which seems to be in conflict with the sustainable 2-3 billion figure.

It can and will be done.

Provided the profit margins are acceptable.

If we feed them coal …

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Are there are city farm models, where there are farm products to cities, compost back out to farms?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Feeding 10 billion people by 2050 within planetary limits may be achievable

Which seems to be in conflict with the sustainable 2-3 billion figure.

Plants will not grow without water, so the grazing inland properties cannot be used for growing crops. these dry-land areas occur around the globe at certain latitudes. Africa will be the main region this extra food will be required and many countries there currently cannot feed their populations, which by 2050 will have doubled. However, the actions of large scale climate event like prolonged and severe droughts, floods, sea-level rise, extreme heat and storms, etc., do not seem to be factored into the calculation at all.

Could they install large scale air to water extractors along the Murry Darling river ?

Could that technology supplement the river ?

If it didn’t cause degradation of rain fall in the local areas maybe other rivers could have the same thing.

Nah for real … you’re wasting your time. The world is already producing enough food for 10 billion people. More than 25% of food produced is just wasted. Want to feed 33.3% more people? Just improve your systems to prevent food wastage. Want to feed a couple of billion more than that? Just get the EU and USA to stop paying farmers not to produce food in order to manipulate prices.

Real question: how are we going to deal with the global obesity epidemic when the population is 10 billion?

dv said:

Nah for real … you’re wasting your time. The world is already producing enough food for 10 billion people. More than 25% of food produced is just wasted. Want to feed 33.3% more people? Just improve your systems to prevent food wastage. Want to feed a couple of billion more than that? Just get the EU and USA to stop paying farmers not to produce food in order to manipulate prices.

Real question: how are we going to deal with the global obesity epidemic when the population is 10 billion?

Hard to visualize 10 billion fat people, but ok.

Visualizes ten billion fat people.

Invest in liposuction ?

dv said:

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Yep, we certainly do.
It’s a shame that about a third of it is wasted.

dv said:

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Probably so many millions are starving.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Probably so many millions are starving.

Food security has never been better, such that the only places where there is starvation now are North Korea and Somalia: not because of any lack of global food production, but because of local politics.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Probably so many millions are starving.

Needs better transport infrastructure to distribute it.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Probably so many millions are starving.

Food security has never been better, such that the only places where there is starvation now are North Korea and Somalia: not because of any lack of global food production, but because of local politics.

>>Despite global hunger levels falling, one in nine people worldwide still face hunger. Here are the ten hungriest countries according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index. <<

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

(shrugs)

We’re already producing enough food to feed 10 billion people.

Probably so many millions are starving.

Food security has never been better, such that the only places where there is starvation now are North Korea and Somalia: not because of any lack of global food production, but because of local politics.

Something like a quarter of Indians are malnourished. It ain’t all rainbows and lollipops.

PermeateFree said:

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

Speaking from experience, i’d give short odds that most of the countries listed there would fall back on the tried-and-tired ‘nulla pretium’ defence (there’s no money). ‘We just can’t afford to feed these people’.

I’d give equally short odds that if i offered them 5 container loads of slightly-used AK-47s, plus 5,000 rounds per weapon, they’d be able to round up the dosh in remarkably short order .

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Probably so many millions are starving.

Food security has never been better, such that the only places where there is starvation now are North Korea and Somalia: not because of any lack of global food production, but because of local politics.

>>Despite global hunger levels falling, one in nine people worldwide still face hunger. Here are the ten hungriest countries according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index. <<

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

>>There are countless countries suffering from hunger issues. Some a lot more than others. Starvation, famine, food insecurity, poverty and so many other things. There are countries we haven’t even heard of, but their fate is so much worse than ours. The hunger issues of a country are determined by Global Hunger Index (GHI) score. The GHI score is calculated by averaging the percentage of the population that is undernourished, the percentage of children younger than 5 years old who are underweight, and the percentage of children dying before the age of 5. Countries with extremely alarming hunger issues have a GHI of over 30 and those between 20 to 30 come under alarming hunger problems. <<

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/countries-starving-to-death/#.uukze0f4h

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

Speaking from experience, i’d give short odds that most of the countries listed there would fall back on the tried-and-tired ‘nulla pretium’ defence (there’s no money). ‘We just can’t afford to feed these people’.

I’d give equally short odds that if i offered them 5 container loads of slightly-used AK-47s, plus 5,000 rounds per weapon, they’d be able to round up the dosh in remarkably short order .

I read somewhere today that PNG have found the money for 40 Maserati cars for the APEC summit.

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Food security has never been better, such that the only places where there is starvation now are North Korea and Somalia: not because of any lack of global food production, but because of local politics.

>>Despite global hunger levels falling, one in nine people worldwide still face hunger. Here are the ten hungriest countries according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index. <<

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

>>There are countless countries suffering from hunger issues. Some a lot more than others. Starvation, famine, food insecurity, poverty and so many other things. There are countries we haven’t even heard of, but their fate is so much worse than ours. The hunger issues of a country are determined by Global Hunger Index (GHI) score. The GHI score is calculated by averaging the percentage of the population that is undernourished, the percentage of children younger than 5 years old who are underweight, and the percentage of children dying before the age of 5. Countries with extremely alarming hunger issues have a GHI of over 30 and those between 20 to 30 come under alarming hunger problems. <<

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/countries-starving-to-death/#.uukze0f4h

https://research.un.org/c.php?g=550389&p=3957482

Witty Rejoinder said:

Something like a quarter of Indians are malnourished. It ain’t all rainbows and lollipops.

We are currently in the only period of more than 50 years in the history of India since 1680 without famine. It ain’t all rainbows and lollipops. It’s just better than it has ever been before.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

Speaking from experience, i’d give short odds that most of the countries listed there would fall back on the tried-and-tired ‘nulla pretium’ defence (there’s no money). ‘We just can’t afford to feed these people’.

I’d give equally short odds that if i offered them 5 container loads of slightly-used AK-47s, plus 5,000 rounds per weapon, they’d be able to round up the dosh in remarkably short order .

I read somewhere today that PNG have found the money for 40 Maserati cars for the APEC summit.

While their children go without polio vaccine.

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Food security has never been better, such that the only places where there is starvation now are North Korea and Somalia: not because of any lack of global food production, but because of local politics.

>>Despite global hunger levels falling, one in nine people worldwide still face hunger. Here are the ten hungriest countries according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index. <<

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

>>There are countless countries suffering from hunger issues. Some a lot more than others. Starvation, famine, food insecurity, poverty and so many other things. There are countries we haven’t even heard of, but their fate is so much worse than ours. The hunger issues of a country are determined by Global Hunger Index (GHI) score. The GHI score is calculated by averaging the percentage of the population that is undernourished, the percentage of children younger than 5 years old who are underweight, and the percentage of children dying before the age of 5. Countries with extremely alarming hunger issues have a GHI of over 30 and those between 20 to 30 come under alarming hunger problems. <<

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/countries-starving-to-death/#.uukze0f4h

Food security has never been better, famine never rarer, hunger never more scarce.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Something like a quarter of Indians are malnourished. It ain’t all rainbows and lollipops.

We are currently in the only period of more than 50 years in the history of India since 1680 without famine. It ain’t all rainbows and lollipops. It’s just better than it has ever been before.

:) We can all relax then and forget about the problem.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

>>Despite global hunger levels falling, one in nine people worldwide still face hunger. Here are the ten hungriest countries according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index. <<

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

>>There are countless countries suffering from hunger issues. Some a lot more than others. Starvation, famine, food insecurity, poverty and so many other things. There are countries we haven’t even heard of, but their fate is so much worse than ours. The hunger issues of a country are determined by Global Hunger Index (GHI) score. The GHI score is calculated by averaging the percentage of the population that is undernourished, the percentage of children younger than 5 years old who are underweight, and the percentage of children dying before the age of 5. Countries with extremely alarming hunger issues have a GHI of over 30 and those between 20 to 30 come under alarming hunger problems. <<

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/countries-starving-to-death/#.uukze0f4h

Food security has never been better, famine never rarer, hunger never more scarce.

And it’s all down to the fact that the per capita production of nutritional calories has never been higher, mostly thanks to agricultural improvements.

I feel like you deliberately made this title long so we couldn’t have fun with it when it turns into a shit fight

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

>>Despite global hunger levels falling, one in nine people worldwide still face hunger. Here are the ten hungriest countries according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index. <<

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

>>There are countless countries suffering from hunger issues. Some a lot more than others. Starvation, famine, food insecurity, poverty and so many other things. There are countries we haven’t even heard of, but their fate is so much worse than ours. The hunger issues of a country are determined by Global Hunger Index (GHI) score. The GHI score is calculated by averaging the percentage of the population that is undernourished, the percentage of children younger than 5 years old who are underweight, and the percentage of children dying before the age of 5. Countries with extremely alarming hunger issues have a GHI of over 30 and those between 20 to 30 come under alarming hunger problems. <<

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/countries-starving-to-death/#.uukze0f4h

Food security has never been better, famine never rarer, hunger never more scarce.

On what are you basing this on? The statistics do not agree with you that the world can currently feed 10 billion people. Don’t forget, we only have around 7 billion currently.

Arts said:

I feel like you deliberately made this title long so we couldn’t have fun with it when it turns into a shit fight

Challenge accepted

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Speaking from experience, i’d give short odds that most of the countries listed there would fall back on the tried-and-tired ‘nulla pretium’ defence (there’s no money). ‘We just can’t afford to feed these people’.

I’d give equally short odds that if i offered them 5 container loads of slightly-used AK-47s, plus 5,000 rounds per weapon, they’d be able to round up the dosh in remarkably short order .

I read somewhere today that PNG have found the money for 40 Maserati cars for the APEC summit.

While their children go without polio vaccine.

maybe the Maseratri company could donate the money for vaccines to MSF or something.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

>>Worldwide, 815 million people still go hungry — a staggering figure that translates into one out of nine people. While global hunger levels have declined by 28% since 2000, according to the 2018 Global Hunger Index, 45% of deaths of children under five are linked to malnutrition. The report, released today by Concern Worldwide, German aid agency Welthungerhilfe, and the International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), highlights massive food inequality around the globe.<<

https://www.concernusa.org/story/worlds-ten-hungriest-countries/

Speaking from experience, i’d give short odds that most of the countries listed there would fall back on the tried-and-tired ‘nulla pretium’ defence (there’s no money). ‘We just can’t afford to feed these people’.

I’d give equally short odds that if i offered them 5 container loads of slightly-used AK-47s, plus 5,000 rounds per weapon, they’d be able to round up the dosh in remarkably short order .

I read somewhere today that PNG have found the money for 40 Maserati cars for the APEC summit.

Which will find new homes when they get back ?

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

I read somewhere today that PNG have found the money for 40 Maserati cars for the APEC summit.

While their children go without polio vaccine.

maybe the Maseratri company could donate the money for vaccines to MSF or something.

Yes. Maybe.

dv said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

>>There are countless countries suffering from hunger issues. Some a lot more than others. Starvation, famine, food insecurity, poverty and so many other things. There are countries we haven’t even heard of, but their fate is so much worse than ours. The hunger issues of a country are determined by Global Hunger Index (GHI) score. The GHI score is calculated by averaging the percentage of the population that is undernourished, the percentage of children younger than 5 years old who are underweight, and the percentage of children dying before the age of 5. Countries with extremely alarming hunger issues have a GHI of over 30 and those between 20 to 30 come under alarming hunger problems. <<

https://www.scoopwhoop.com/world/countries-starving-to-death/#.uukze0f4h

Food security has never been better, famine never rarer, hunger never more scarce.

And it’s all down to the fact that the per capita production of nutritional calories has never been higher, mostly thanks to agricultural improvements.

And how do you think your calorie count is going to work out with an extra 3 billion people and climate change having a considerable adverse influence on production?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46118103

There has been a remarkable global decline in the number of children women are having, say researchers.
Their report found fertility rate falls meant nearly half of countries were now facing a “baby bust” – meaning there are insufficient children to maintain their population size.
The researchers said the findings were a “huge surprise”.
And there would be profound consequences for societies with “more grandparents than grandchildren”.

The study, published in the Lancet, followed trends in every country from 1950 to 2017.
In 1950, women were having an average of 4.7 children in their lifetime. The fertility rate all but halved to 2.4 children per woman by last year.

Whenever a country’s average fertility rate drops below approximately 2.1 then populations will eventually start to shrink (this “baby bust” figure is significantly higher in countries which have high rates of death in childhood).

Prof Christopher Murray, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington, told the BBC: “We’ve reached this watershed where half of countries have fertility rates below the replacement level, so if nothing happens the populations will decline in those countries.
“It’s a remarkable transition.
“It’s a surprise even to people like myself, the idea that it’s half the countries in the world will be a huge surprise to people.”

There is also a trend of in developing countries of people moving into cities from the country, of course that means the cities foot print increases but geographically it’s still relatively small compared to the mass of an entire country. Having said that, the country side might be depopulating but the suitable areas are still being taken up by agriculture which might be pretty but is still an industrial landscape.

On the whole though, I am a bit of an optimist, I think the world is getting richer, (and rapidly so) just in time to save what is pristine and restore much of what has been ruined.

AwesomeO said:

There is also a trend of in developing countries of people moving into cities from the country, of course that means the cities foot print increases but geographically it’s still relatively small compared to the mass of an entire country. Having said that, the country side might be depopulating but the suitable areas are still being taken up by agriculture which might be pretty but is still an industrial landscape.

On the whole though, I am a bit of an optimist, I think the world is getting richer, (and rapidly so) just in time to save what is pristine and restore much of what has been ruined.

If you’re poor you couldn’t give a flying shit about the environment, you want to survive. Get that slight bit affluent and you don’t want to be living in effluent. I also am an optimist. I look at a country like Iran and I see hope. Educate people and the fertility rate crashes, and can do so very quickly.

sibeen said:

AwesomeO said:

There is also a trend of in developing countries of people moving into cities from the country, of course that means the cities foot print increases but geographically it’s still relatively small compared to the mass of an entire country. Having said that, the country side might be depopulating but the suitable areas are still being taken up by agriculture which might be pretty but is still an industrial landscape.

On the whole though, I am a bit of an optimist, I think the world is getting richer, (and rapidly so) just in time to save what is pristine and restore much of what has been ruined.

If you’re poor you couldn’t give a flying shit about the environment, you want to survive. Get that slight bit affluent and you don’t want to be living in effluent. I also am an optimist. I look at a country like Iran and I see hope. Educate people and the fertility rate crashes, and can do so very quickly.

And from countries with a very low base, a very modest improvement pays big dividends. Education for girls which includes birth control, a real possibility of not dying in a famine, some basic medical care of cheap antibiotics and during childbirth and early childhood nutrition.

The other thing that is washing through the system in the poorest parts of the world is technology. Farmers with cheap phones arnt getting ripped off as much by multinationals, they know the value of what they sell. Money is available for investment without banks, information really is power.

dv said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46118103

There has been a remarkable global decline in the number of children women are having, say researchers.
Their report found fertility rate falls meant nearly half of countries were now facing a “baby bust” – meaning there are insufficient children to maintain their population size.
The researchers said the findings were a “huge surprise”.
And there would be profound consequences for societies with “more grandparents than grandchildren”.

The study, published in the Lancet, followed trends in every country from 1950 to 2017.
In 1950, women were having an average of 4.7 children in their lifetime. The fertility rate all but halved to 2.4 children per woman by last year.

Whenever a country’s average fertility rate drops below approximately 2.1 then populations will eventually start to shrink (this “baby bust” figure is significantly higher in countries which have high rates of death in childhood).

Prof Christopher Murray, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington, told the BBC: “We’ve reached this watershed where half of countries have fertility rates below the replacement level, so if nothing happens the populations will decline in those countries.
“It’s a remarkable transition.
“It’s a surprise even to people like myself, the idea that it’s half the countries in the world will be a huge surprise to people.”

Even at 2.4 children per woman, the population is STILL growing. It will ONLY stabilise when there are only 2 children per woman and that is not likely until well into the new century when the world population is expected to reach 11.2 billion people. Then it will take 80 years from then for the population to drop by the amount of children per woman is expected to then have. Get used to it we are going to have a much higher world population than we have today, for more than 200 hundred years unless a catastrophe considerably cuts into the human population.

>>Prof Christopher Murray, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington, told the BBC: “We’ve reached this watershed where half of countries have fertility rates below the replacement level, so if nothing happens the populations will decline in those countries.
“It’s a remarkable transition.
“It’s a surprise even to people like myself, the idea that it’s half the countries in the world will be a huge surprise to people.”<<

Just because the wealthier countries reduce their population numbers, the poorer ones are likely to increase by even higher rates (Africa in particular). And don’t forget many of these wealthy countries are permitting migrants from these counties to settle in their country, so like Australia the population will continue to rise. Japan is about the only country where the population is falling and that is because migration to that country is highly regulated.

There is a rapidly growing movement that we should reduce our population size, especially of migrants and refugees. This is evident by just about every country in the European Common Market. However, as a reduction will affect the profits of big business and will certainly not be in their interests, I strongly suspect many are currently trying to discredit the idea and diminish the threat. The statistics of world population growth is a prime example that people simply do not understand them and their ramifications, and at best are only given half the picture. Also the large population movement from poor countries to rich countries is not taken into account.

We have had these battles before with global warming and we all know to what lengths the denying lobby have gone in order to muddy the water and delay action. It is my opinion that we are beginning to see this misinformation being generated about world population growth too. High human population has created most of the major environmental problems we have today and must be addressed if there is going to be any improvement regarding them. So not only are the old fossil fuel lobby against a population reduction, but are now being joined by others who see themselves getting rich in the larger market. But remember they are doing so at your children’s expense.

It is a ridiculous argument that we are running out of workers to support an aging population, as our populations are NOT decreasing, but expanding and will continue to do so for decades to come. We are also entering the age of robots and automation, so there is likely to be less of a demand for workers.

You are being fed a lie, please be aware of it.