there was a time the vegetation around was for shelter, the trees and all, shelter from the wind and sun, something enjoyed with no thought at all by most of the land-dwelling animal world, and come to think something similar applies in the ocean.

half the animal world enjoys privacy too this way, there’s no cognitive dissonance in the idea of sheltering applied so, of the reality they overlap.

you’re raised in a house, a human construction, you might be forgiven for not appreciating what trees do, what vegetation can do.

born into a house, a human domestic environment, straight from the hospital likely, you start your life in the human construction, where you’ll eat and learn hygiene. You’ll learn not to shit yourself as you transition out of nappies.

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

these physical constructions you inhabit will serve as models for social constructions, the work of minds. Importantly the enclosures of your thoughts, your views, ultimately ideology.

Incarceration in 4 walls was a death sentence for primitive peoples not familiar with the concept.

I’ll tell you what, when your garden has no trees in it and nothing but grass, you spend very little time out there. It’s like an extension of the street, you don’t think of it as a private place.

transition said:

there was a time the vegetation around was for shelter, the trees and all, shelter from the wind and sun, something enjoyed with no thought at all by most of the land-dwelling animal world, and come to think something similar applies in the ocean.

half the animal world enjoys privacy too this way, there’s no cognitive dissonance in the idea of sheltering applied so, of the reality they overlap.

you’re raised in a house, a human construction, you might be forgiven for not appreciating what trees do, what vegetation can do.

born into a house, a human domestic environment, straight from the hospital likely, you start your life in the human construction, where you’ll eat and learn hygiene. You’ll learn not to shit yourself as you transition out of nappies.

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

these physical constructions you inhabit will serve as models for social constructions, the work of minds. Importantly the enclosures of your thoughts, your views, ultimately ideology.

I agree, but …

… count the number of parasites and commensals on a single tree. Unless the tree is drinking pesticide, there’s an enormous number. Borers, ants, spiders, caterpillars, fungi, bird nests, fruit bats at night.

Now imagine the same number of parasites and commensals on a person.

You can see why humankind decided that enclosures were a good idea.

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

there was a time the vegetation around was for shelter, the trees and all, shelter from the wind and sun, something enjoyed with no thought at all by most of the land-dwelling animal world, and come to think something similar applies in the ocean.

half the animal world enjoys privacy too this way, there’s no cognitive dissonance in the idea of sheltering applied so, of the reality they overlap.

you’re raised in a house, a human construction, you might be forgiven for not appreciating what trees do, what vegetation can do.

born into a house, a human domestic environment, straight from the hospital likely, you start your life in the human construction, where you’ll eat and learn hygiene. You’ll learn not to shit yourself as you transition out of nappies.

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

these physical constructions you inhabit will serve as models for social constructions, the work of minds. Importantly the enclosures of your thoughts, your views, ultimately ideology.

I agree, but …

… count the number of parasites and commensals on a single tree. Unless the tree is drinking pesticide, there’s an enormous number. Borers, ants, spiders, caterpillars, fungi, bird nests, fruit bats at night.

Now imagine the same number of parasites and commensals on a person.

You can see why humankind decided that enclosures were a good idea.

Not what most Aboriginals did, nor many other indigenous people. People that must move around have little need of 4 walls, they have lived that way (as we used to) and know what needs to be done. It is a common failing of people to imagine how other people live, based on their own experience of living in an entirely different way.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

there was a time the vegetation around was for shelter, the trees and all, shelter from the wind and sun, something enjoyed with no thought at all by most of the land-dwelling animal world, and come to think something similar applies in the ocean.

half the animal world enjoys privacy too this way, there’s no cognitive dissonance in the idea of sheltering applied so, of the reality they overlap.

you’re raised in a house, a human construction, you might be forgiven for not appreciating what trees do, what vegetation can do.

born into a house, a human domestic environment, straight from the hospital likely, you start your life in the human construction, where you’ll eat and learn hygiene. You’ll learn not to shit yourself as you transition out of nappies.

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

these physical constructions you inhabit will serve as models for social constructions, the work of minds. Importantly the enclosures of your thoughts, your views, ultimately ideology.

I agree, but …

… count the number of parasites and commensals on a single tree. Unless the tree is drinking pesticide, there’s an enormous number. Borers, ants, spiders, caterpillars, fungi, bird nests, fruit bats at night.

Now imagine the same number of parasites and commensals on a person.

You can see why humankind decided that enclosures were a good idea.

Not what most Aboriginals did, nor many other indigenous people. People that must move around have little need of 4 walls, they have lived that way (as we used to) and know what needs to be done. It is a common failing of people to imagine how other people live, based on their own experience of living in an entirely different way.

gunyah.

transition said:

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

It seems to me that religious buildings need certain features to make them religious, and that the typical human house does not have these features, hence it is not a church.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

It seems to me that religious buildings need certain features to make them religious, and that the typical human house does not have these features, hence it is not a church.

i’d expect a church is entirely made a church by human ideas of what a church is, or should be, that outside of the work of minds churches don’t exist.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

It seems to me that religious buildings need certain features to make them religious, and that the typical human house does not have these features, hence it is not a church.

i’d expect a church is entirely made a church by human ideas of what a church is, or should be, that outside of the work of minds churches don’t exist.

if there was no life for all intents and purposes the universe wouldn’t exist.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I contend the domestic human construction, the house is a church, with a religion.

same applies of school. Perhaps work environments too.

It seems to me that religious buildings need certain features to make them religious, and that the typical human house does not have these features, hence it is not a church.

i’d expect a church is entirely made a church by human ideas of what a church is, or should be, that outside of the work of minds churches don’t exist.

I totally agree, and if you find houses church like, then you are of course perfectly free to call them churches, if you want to.

I’m just saying that for me, they are not at all church like. I’d go as far as saying, quite the opposite.

Peak Warming Man said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It seems to me that religious buildings need certain features to make them religious, and that the typical human house does not have these features, hence it is not a church.

i’d expect a church is entirely made a church by human ideas of what a church is, or should be, that outside of the work of minds churches don’t exist.

if there was no life for all intents and purposes the universe wouldn’t exist.

i’d argue something lately called universe existed before it was named, or conceptualized by anyone, or anything. Fortunately the bulk of it is not subject to human mental activity, brought into existence that way, or maintained so. That’d be what I call nature.

anyway, back to where I was going with the OP.

how does house, or living in a house, obliterate understanding of external environment as shelter. Outside your house. Like trees etc. Other animals don’t seem so stupid this way, even burrowing animals.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

It seems to me that religious buildings need certain features to make them religious, and that the typical human house does not have these features, hence it is not a church.

i’d expect a church is entirely made a church by human ideas of what a church is, or should be, that outside of the work of minds churches don’t exist.

I totally agree, and if you find houses church like, then you are of course perfectly free to call them churches, if you want to.

I’m just saying that for me, they are not at all church like. I’d go as far as saying, quite the opposite.

In my house you’ll find these large 19th century church candlesticks.

>I totally agree, and if you find houses church like, then you are of course perfectly free to call them churches, if you want to.
I’m just saying that for me, they are not at all church like. I’d go as far as saying, quite the opposite

i’d like to think they are opposite too, but couldn’t maintain that for long, given what they have in common.

let’s start with calling them both enclosures, add that they are both places of socialization, like learning about societal norms/conventions, cultural expectations etc. And there’s that father business.

what I was getting at though, is that the physical construction house, typical domestic residence, reinforces the social construction of reality.

just as a church (the physical thing) might reinforce the word and will of God, shared ideas such, that lend to the power of a socially constructed reality.

it’s no great stretch to think of home as having commonality with church. I bet plenty of people when at church feel at home. Plenty of people worship their homes too, perhaps not literally, if you hold to a stereotype of church and worship.

being in a home a lot might be seen as a sort of captivity, the walls and ceilings never move, they tend not to grow after they’re built. Ignoring extensions and renovations they’re largely unchanging. Very reliable. The ultimate in shelter.

what happens though when these physical constructions (that reinforce social constructions) so pervade the native mind as to displace the origins of shelter, obliterate an understanding of. It hardly lends to a fruitful imaginative trip back to the ancestral environments for a look.

I bet you don’t mind some savanna around your house, perhaps some shrubs and trees, so you can see out, see the JWs or Mormons coming down the road, see them before they can see you. An approaching danger you might prepare for.

you don’t need them because you’ve already got your little church. You’re living in it.

For some, the great outdoors are the church. They feel that God speaks through nature.

Enclosure as church:

Home beautiful. Better homes and gardens. House and garden. Ladies home journal. Vogue living. Channel 9 life.

transition said:

how does house, or living in a house, obliterate understanding of external environment as shelter. Outside your house. Like trees etc. Other animals don’t seem so stupid this way, even burrowing animals.

Well, I always shelter under a tree in a thunderstorm.

You can’t use the word “shelter” in the context of “external environment as shelter” until you specify what you are sheltering from. It could be:

• The weather
• Predators
• Others of the same species.

Animals, as a general rule, don’t shelter from the weather or from other of the same species. They shelter from predators.

Humans have reached the state where we seldom need to shelter from predators. Human enclosures are designed to protect against the weather and from other humans. Doesn’t that make it a totally different situation?

Mosques and cathedrals have fractal type imagery within those enclosed spaces.

>You can’t use the word “shelter” in the context of “external environment as shelter” until you specify what you are sheltering from..”

I think I can.

wind’s variable, for example. It can carry dust. It does lift soil. Think of ground wind, more, near the surface. Dust usually comes with dry, and the wind dries.

it’s fairly much everywhere, wind is, or the potential for wind, or wind speed changes, sure as you’re surrounded by air that you breathe. Generally invisible air is, not at all entertaining, resists being packaged and bought and sold, other than perhaps in leafy suburbs away from the smog. Oh there’s the country too. Or just view reality through the air between your sofa and the TV.

wind can make a creature very cold, particularly if wet.

houses, particularly screen doors, and windows too, when you open any to let some air in, or airflow through a building, these mesh screens stop the bugs coming in, and add mosquitoes to that list.

mosquitoes aren’t really a predator I guess, it’s only a small quantity of blood they’re after, short of some unexpected mutation and turning into something that can kill you that way, you need not worry.

they can ruin sleep though, just a single one in a room with you, and are known to carry and cause disease.

many other animals do regularly shelter from the wind, they know shit weather, and not just because they can’t hear or smell a predator approaching from downwind.

“Animals, as a general rule, don’t shelter from the weather or from other of the same species.”

That’s a bit broad. There are plenty of animals that hide from the rain.

dv said:

“Animals, as a general rule, don’t shelter from the weather or from other of the same species.”

That’s a bit broad. There are plenty of animals that hide from the rain.

they also manage proximity amongst their own

Obv, living in a permanent structure with a small number of people is a fairly recent development in humanity’s history.

dv said:

“Animals, as a general rule, don’t shelter from the weather or from other of the same species.”

That’s a bit broad. There are plenty of animals that hide from the rain.

I can’t think of any. Not birds, insects, bats, gorillas, pangolins. Which animals did you have in mind?

The are some animals that hide from droughts, but that’s another matter.

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

“Animals, as a general rule, don’t shelter from the weather or from other of the same species.”

That’s a bit broad. There are plenty of animals that hide from the rain.

I can’t think of any. Not birds, insects, bats, gorillas, pangolins. Which animals did you have in mind?

The are some animals that hide from droughts, but that’s another matter.

birds shelter from the rain, orangutans cover themselves with large leaves, snakes will seek shelter, cats, dogs, many burrowing animals… thre are certainly fewer animals around (insects included) when it’s raining than when it’s not…

Arts said:

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

“Animals, as a general rule, don’t shelter from the weather or from other of the same species.”

That’s a bit broad. There are plenty of animals that hide from the rain.

I can’t think of any. Not birds, insects, bats, gorillas, pangolins. Which animals did you have in mind?

The are some animals that hide from droughts, but that’s another matter.

birds shelter from the rain, orangutans cover themselves with large leaves, snakes will seek shelter, cats, dogs, many burrowing animals… thre are certainly fewer animals around (insects included) when it’s raining than when it’s not…

All true Arts. Even ants prefer to take cover and spend time keeping their eggs safe.