Scientists successfully fly aeroplane using the power of ionic wind
Ever since the Wright brothers flew their machine over the fields of Kitty Hawk more than 100 years ago, aircraft have been propelled using moving surfaces such as propellers and turbines.
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Ion drive airplane!
I bet the wright brothers would be impressed.
Fit an ion drive onto this
https://i.imgur.com/AkUr1Pm.mp4
and make the batteries to be the wings.
I’m still a little confused as to how it makes thrust – Fair enough nitrogen is ionised and then accelerated rearwards to make thrust, but why isn’t the ionic nitrogen also attracted forwards after it passes by the rearmost charge wires, thus slowing it down?
Spiny Norman said:
I’m still a little confused as to how it makes thrust – Fair enough nitrogen is ionised and then accelerated rearwards to make thrust, but why isn’t the ionic nitrogen also attracted forwards after it passes by the rearmost charge wires, thus slowing it down?
it is attracted to the rear neg wires and stays there?
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
I’m still a little confused as to how it makes thrust – Fair enough nitrogen is ionised and then accelerated rearwards to make thrust, but why isn’t the ionic nitrogen also attracted forwards after it passes by the rearmost charge wires, thus slowing it down?
it is attracted to the rear neg wires and stays there?
Same thing then – It’ll cancel any forwards thrust.
Spiny Norman said:
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
I’m still a little confused as to how it makes thrust – Fair enough nitrogen is ionised and then accelerated rearwards to make thrust, but why isn’t the ionic nitrogen also attracted forwards after it passes by the rearmost charge wires, thus slowing it down?
it is attracted to the rear neg wires and stays there?
Same thing then – It’ll cancel any forwards thrust.
but it is the gap between the wires where the thrust is developed.
I have read that the ion thrusters in space have the same problem, so they usually have a much smaller unit off to one side and it is the electrical opposite of the main one. The two combined cancel the rearwards attraction. Something like that anyway.
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
JudgeMental said:it is attracted to the rear neg wires and stays there?
Same thing then – It’ll cancel any forwards thrust.
but it is the gap between the wires where the thrust is developed.
the air molecules pass the rear wires and produce the thrust as well.
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:
JudgeMental said:it is attracted to the rear neg wires and stays there?
Same thing then – It’ll cancel any forwards thrust.
but it is the gap between the wires where the thrust is developed.
Okay – maybe I’m missing something about the reactions then.
Spiny Norman said:
JudgeMental said:
Spiny Norman said:Same thing then – It’ll cancel any forwards thrust.
but it is the gap between the wires where the thrust is developed.
Okay – maybe I’m missing something about the reactions then.
“When that happens, the nitrogen atoms turn into positively charged ions. Because the back row of metal filaments carries a negative charge, the ions careen toward it like magnetized billiard balls. “Along the way, there are millions of collisions between these ions and neutral air molecules,” Barrett notes. That shoves the air molecules toward the back of the plane, creating a wind that pushes the plane forward fast and hard enough to fly.”
https://youtu.be/boB6qu5dcCw
Video of the thing flying plus some nerd saying stuff.
poikilotherm said:
https://youtu.be/boB6qu5dcCwVideo of the thing flying plus some nerd saying stuff.
It works but I think it will be just a novelty.
Peak Warming Man said:
poikilotherm said:
https://youtu.be/boB6qu5dcCwVideo of the thing flying plus some nerd saying stuff.
It works but I think it will be just a novelty.
think tiny stealth drones
poikilotherm said:
https://youtu.be/boB6qu5dcCwVideo of the thing flying plus some nerd saying stuff.
Ah thanks for that, now it makes sense.
“The new prototype uses positively charged wires under the wings to strip electrons from nitrogen atoms in the air leaving behind positively charged ions. These ionised particles flow to the back of the plane, which is negatively charged.
“As they flow they collide with air molecules transferring momentum to them. This is how the thrust is generated,” Professor Barrett explained.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-11-22/us-scientists-fly-aeroplane-using-ionic-wind/10516032
Michael V said:
“The new prototype uses positively charged wires under the wings to strip electrons from nitrogen atoms in the air leaving behind positively charged ions. These ionised particles flow to the back of the plane, which is negatively charged.“As they flow they collide with air molecules transferring momentum to them. This is how the thrust is generated,” Professor Barrett explained.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-11-22/us-scientists-fly-aeroplane-using-ionic-wind/10516032
So they can make the claim that their engine can produce the same amount of thrust as a Spitfire in space
It seems to be much like how one of these works.
Old mate Zarkov claimed they were and anti-gravity machine, so I knew then for a fact that they weren’t.
Spiny Norman said:
It seems to be much like how one of these works.Old mate Zarkov claimed they were and anti-gravity machine, so I knew then for a fact that they weren’t.
You jest sir they are antigravity but the government hides it as it would destroy travel as we know
I swear this was mentioned in the Archives from long ago and i expressed similar skepticism then — but i guess i was wrong?
As for shouldn’t the + and – effects cancel thrust?
Do turbofans generate more thrust for given fuel?
Can entrainment provide greater airflow than conventional fans?
Tau.Neutrino said:
Fit an ion drive onto this
https://i.imgur.com/AkUr1Pm.mp4
and make the batteries to be the wings.
Fit an ion drive onto this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RbcbjMhvjEs
Spiny Norman said:
It seems to be much like how one of these works.Old mate Zarkov claimed they were and anti-gravity machine, so I knew then for a fact that they weren’t.
Yep. Good video. Grant made one for MythBusters.
It’s nice to see the plane because that means it can carry the weight of the battery, right?
Right. Checking the Nature article, “All batteries and power systems, including a specifically developed untralight 40 kilovolt power power converter, were carried on board.”
SCIENCE said:
I swear this was mentioned in the Archives from long ago and i expressed similar skepticism then — but i guess i was wrong?As for shouldn’t the + and – effects cancel thrust?
Do turbofans generate more thrust for given fuel?
Can entrainment provide greater airflow than conventional fans?
Good questions. Which means I don’t know the answers. You weren’t alone in your skepticism. The Nature article references three other papers that claimed that the plane was impossible.
I know one case where the positive and negative effects do cancel. The Sun. Because electrons are more mobile than protons, they get expelled by the Sun more rapidly than protons so the Sun should develop a strong positive charge like a cathode, right? Well, actually wrong because the moment the Sun develops even a slight positive charge it attracts the electrons back down. So it ends up neutral.
The big plus here is not efficiency but the fact that the propulsion system is nearly silent and produces no combustion emissions. And for drones, it adds the advantage of being potentially easier to miniaturise.
The thrust to power ratio is theoretically limited to 50 Newton’s per kilowatt, similar to helicopter motors and 16 times as good as a typical jet engine. That’s the theoretical limit, not the practical limit. For practical use, a two stage system generates a thrust density of 3 newtons per square metre at a thrust to power ratio of 6.25 Newtons per kilowatt. The high voltage generator is five to ten times lighter than an equivalent conventional power supplies. Further technological development is needed to lift the efficiency to greater than 2.56%.
so the way this thing works is that you pulse the power and make a bubble of negatively charged air , then attract it with a positive plate on the trailing edge of the wing, the air passes over and creates lift?
wookiemeister said:
so the way this thing works is that you pulse the power and make a bubble of negatively charged air , then attract it with a positive plate on the trailing edge of the wing, the air passes over and creates lift?
I think it’s just DC rather than pulsed. But I could be wrong. If you understand electronics, the Nature article gives the full wiring diagram.