Hey poindexter…
Bile contains acids (cholic acid, glycocholic acid etc) but it has a mean pH that suggests it is typically a bit alkali. (pH 7.2 – 8.3)
So what are the alkali components that are beating these acids?

dv said:

Hey poindexter…
Bile contains acids (cholic acid, glycocholic acid etc) but it has a mean pH that suggests it is typically a bit alkali. (pH 7.2 – 8.3)
So what are the alkali components that are beating these acids?

Bicarbonate probably

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

Hey poindexter…
Bile contains acids (cholic acid, glycocholic acid etc) but it has a mean pH that suggests it is typically a bit alkali. (pH 7.2 – 8.3)
So what are the alkali components that are beating these acids?

Bicarbonate probably

Gastric acid has a pH as low as 1.5 so I guess you’d get some CO2 coming off when they collide

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

dv said:

Hey poindexter…
Bile contains acids (cholic acid, glycocholic acid etc) but it has a mean pH that suggests it is typically a bit alkali. (pH 7.2 – 8.3)
So what are the alkali components that are beating these acids?

Bicarbonate probably

Gastric acid has a pH as low as 1.5 so I guess you’d get some CO2 coming off when they collide

You wouldn’t be getting bile acids and bile salts mixed up by any chance? The pH of 7.2 to 8.3 looks like bile salts. Bile salts are sodium and potassium salts of bile acids.

“Prior to secreting any of the bile acids (primary or secondary, see below), liver cells conjugate them with one of two amino acids, glycine or taurine, to form a total of 8 possible conjugated bile acids. The pKa of the unconjugated bile acids are between 5 and 6.5, and the pH of the duodenum ranges between 3 and 5, so when unconjugated bile acids are in the duodenum, they are almost always protonated (HA form), which makes them relatively insoluble in water. Conjugating bile acids with amino acids lowers the pKa of the bile-acid/amino-acid conjugate to between 1 and 4. Thus conjugated bile acids are almost always in their deprotonated (A-) form in the duodenum, which makes them much more water-soluble and much more able to fulfil their physiologic function of emulsifying fats.”

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

poikilotherm said:

Bicarbonate probably

Gastric acid has a pH as low as 1.5 so I guess you’d get some CO2 coming off when they collide

You wouldn’t be getting bile acids and bile salts mixed up by any chance?

I sure wouldn’t.
What I said was that :

bile is alkanic, (pH 7.2 – 8.3)
bile contains acids such as cholic acid and lithocholic acid

Then I asked: what is the alkanic component that beats those acids?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091928/

poikilotherm said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4091928/

Cheers. Porphorin and bilirubin both have amine groups, so they’d contribute to the alkalinity.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

Gastric acid has a pH as low as 1.5 so I guess you’d get some CO2 coming off when they collide

You wouldn’t be getting bile acids and bile salts mixed up by any chance?

I sure wouldn’t.
What I said was that :

bile is alkanic, (pH 7.2 – 8.3)
bile contains acids such as cholic acid and lithocholic acid

Then I asked: what is the alkanic component that beats those acids?

And what I said was:

bile is acidic, (pH 5 – 6.5 approximately)
Reacting it with amino acids lowers the pH to the range 1 – 4.

Where did you get the 7.2 – 8.3 from?

mollwollfumble said:

And what I said was:

bile is acidic, (pH 5 – 6.5 approximately)
Reacting it with amino acids lowers the pH to the range 1 – 4.

Where did you get the 7.2 – 8.3 from?

“The pH of common duct bile (7.50 to 8.05)”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile

“Bile is composed of bile acids and salts, phospholipids, cholesterol, pigments, water, and electrolyte chemicals that keep the total solution slightly alkaline (with a pH of about 7 to 8”
https://www.britannica.com/science/bile

“This is also the case for common duct bile where our values range only from 7 50 to 8 05. “
https://gut.bmj.com/content/gutjnl/17/12/971.full.pdf

And every other reference

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

And what I said was:

bile is acidic, (pH 5 – 6.5 approximately)
Reacting it with amino acids lowers the pH to the range 1 – 4.

Where did you get the 7.2 – 8.3 from?

“The pH of common duct bile (7.50 to 8.05)”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile

“Bile is composed of bile acids and salts, phospholipids, cholesterol, pigments, water, and electrolyte chemicals that keep the total solution slightly alkaline (with a pH of about 7 to 8”
https://www.britannica.com/science/bile

“This is also the case for common duct bile where our values range only from 7 50 to 8 05. “
https://gut.bmj.com/content/gutjnl/17/12/971.full.pdf

And every other reference

There might be one single most authoritative source that those in the know call “the Bile Bible”.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile

And I was quoting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid

mollwollfumble said:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile

And I was quoting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid

Right.

That’s what you’re not understanding.

You must read more carefully.

BILE has a pH from 7.2 – 8.3.

BILE ACID is just one component of BILE. BILE IS ALKANINE. I was asking WHAT ARE THE ALKANIC COMPONENTS THAT BEAT THAT ACID.

It turns out, thanks to poik I now know, thank you poilk, that the answer is bilirubin and porphorin, which are amines.

Porphorin and bilirubin both have amine groups