roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Hey roughie,

Question for you, if you have time, please:

One of those watches – a Waltham Traveler, with works identical to this:

!!

I think its major trouble may be that the spring is wound tight and gummed up with crud.

Any way that a know-nothing like me could check on that, without serious risk to the watch?

If the mainspring is fully wound and the watch isn’t going then it should be obvious that something is indeed clogging the works. The springs can get gummed up and this can affect performance but it is usually things further down the train that are easier to stop. Remember the toothpick I mentioned? Use one to test to see if the balance wheel swings freely and also stays upright on its pivots at the same time. Be gentle as the pivots are very fine and will break easily if too much leverage is applied to the balance. If the balance rotates freely, check the lever or pallets that connect the balance to the escape wheel. The pallets should swing back and forth as the balance swings. The pallets have jewels on the ends that contact the escape wheel teeth. Observe to see if the escape wheel turns one tooth at a time when the lever moves sideways back and forth. the pallet stones should lock and drop each tooth as the escape wheel turns. If the escape wheel isn’t turning then the train is jammed somehow. Usually oil has dried to a glue. Often also the wheel train has hair grit and all manner of crud that gets in there. If you push gently on the centre wheel in the correct direction, the impuls you have provided should travel down the train and cause the ballance to start swinging. If you can do that then the watch will probably go well once it has been cleaned and re-oiled.

Roughie,

Thanks for all that. I can say that the signs are encouraging. When i give the cetral wheel a bit of a nudge, the impetus does, as you suggested, travel back and cause the balance wheel to move. Whereas the escape wheel and the pallet were not moving at all before, they do now move to some degree.

More particularly, there’s a brass (?) wheel which is mostly obscured, but just a portion visbile in the narrow gap to the right of the ord ‘Traveler’ in this image:

When i gave that a nudge, the mechanism appeard to ‘run’ for a few ticks of the escape wheel.

captain_spalding said:

Roughie,

Thanks for all that. I can say that the signs are encouraging. When i give the cetral wheel a bit of a nudge, the impetus does, as you suggested, travel back and cause the balance wheel to move. Whereas the escape wheel and the pallet were not moving at all before, they do now move to some degree.

More particularly, there’s a brass (?) wheel which is mostly obscured, but just a portion visbile in the narrow gap to the right of the ord ‘Traveler’ in this image:

When i gave that a nudge, the mechanism appeard to ‘run’ for a few ticks of the escape wheel.

The barrel containing the mainspring turns the slowest and the escape wheel spins the fastest. The barrel is the first wheel, the centre wheel is the second wheel, the third wheel is the one you mention in the gap, the fourth wheel is under the plate and the escape wheel would otherwise be the fifth wheel if it wasn’t an escape wheel. ;)

If this watch had them, the red jewels wuld indicate the pivot bearings for each of the wheels mentioned. In a seven jewel watch, the jewels are only visible if you dismantle the escapement. The wheel pivot bearings in a seven jewel watch are simply holes drilled in the plates.

roughbarked said:

Yes, i can see quite clearly how the ends of the pivots show in the centres of the holes drilled in the plates. Is there any point in trying to infltrate a drop of some solvent into tose holes, or would that do more harm than good? Also, what are the two large ‘silver’ wheels near the crown? Is the big one the ‘barrel’?

Recent article on terrorists using time pieces to smuggle explosives, they are now on the watch list

The watch list is now quite extensive, over 7 billion.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Yes, i can see quite clearly how the ends of the pivots show in the centres of the holes drilled in the plates. Is there any point in trying to infltrate a drop of some solvent into tose holes, or would that do more harm than good? Also, what are the two large ‘silver’ wheels near the crown? Is the big one the ‘barrel’?

Yes these are the oil sinks and yes the right oil that is only enough to fill the sink rather than over filling it. The small polished steel wheel is the crown wheel and the larger is the ratchet wheel. These are the winding system which winds the mainspring.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Yes, i can see quite clearly how the ends of the pivots show in the centres of the holes drilled in the plates. Is there any point in trying to infltrate a drop of some solvent into tose holes, or would that do more harm than good? Also, what are the two large ‘silver’ wheels near the crown? Is the big one the ‘barrel’?

Yes these are the oil sinks and yes the right oil that is only enough to fill the sink rather than over filling it. The small polished steel wheel is the crown wheel and the larger is the ratchet wheel. These are the winding system which winds the mainspring.

So, i could try a drop of ‘the right oil’ in those wells. No solvents first though, eh? I can see the little ratchet lever on the ratchet wheel. I’m guessing that releasing this might relax the mainspring – but, i’m also aware that letting this happen too suddenly can cause damage to the works.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Yes, i can see quite clearly how the ends of the pivots show in the centres of the holes drilled in the plates. Is there any point in trying to infltrate a drop of some solvent into tose holes, or would that do more harm than good? Also, what are the two large ‘silver’ wheels near the crown? Is the big one the ‘barrel’?

Yes these are the oil sinks and yes the right oil that is only enough to fill the sink rather than over filling it. The small polished steel wheel is the crown wheel and the larger is the ratchet wheel. These are the winding system which winds the mainspring.

So, i could try a drop of ‘the right oil’ in those wells. No solvents first though, eh? I can see the little ratchet lever on the ratchet wheel. I’m guessing that releasing this might relax the mainspring – but, i’m also aware that letting this happen too suddenly can cause damage to the works.

Yes. a little oil in the right spots can show you that the watch is starving for oil. The watch will still need to be cleaned though and disassembled to do so as there are many places that don’t get cleaned properly and likewise are impossible to oil unless they are dismantled, ie: the Mainspring barrel and the balance wheel and pallets. A watch does need to be dismantled so that all bearing surfaces are able to be cleaned properly and examined for wear and faults before reassembling and oiling as you go.

Thanks for all that, roughie.

I have a little dropper bottle of silicone oil around here somewhere. Very fine oil, used on medical equipment (it was getting chucked out, so naturally…). I’ll give that a try, and see what reaction i get.

But, i do take note of what you say about proper dismantle, clean, and lubricate. Another one for the professionals.

captain_spalding said:

Thanks for all that, roughie.

I have a little dropper bottle of silicone oil around here somewhere. Very fine oil, used on medical equipment (it was getting chucked out, so naturally…). I’ll give that a try, and see what reaction i get.

But, i do take note of what you say about proper dismantle, clean, and lubricate. Another one for the professionals.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/centistokes-50-oil.106773/#post-812206

Yes, with care you can let the mainspring down and undo the screws and dismantle the mainspring barrel for cleaning and reoiiling but there is a lot to know about what works best for cleaning and oiling. It isn’t wise to use just any available lubricant. It is preferable to use the specially prepared synthetic lubricants. Silicone isn’t advisable but a bit of sewing machine oil won’t hurt.

I’d like some good close up photos of your actual movement rather than one off the net because the problems with your movement will be unique to your watch.

roughbarked said:

Yes, with care you can let the mainspring down and undo the screws and dismantle the mainspring barrel for cleaning and reoiiling but there is a lot to know about what works best for cleaning and oiling. It isn’t wise to use just any available lubricant. It is preferable to use the specially prepared synthetic lubricants. Silicone isn’t advisable but a bit of sewing machine oil won’t hurt. if you are only oiling to see if the watch will go with added lubricant and the watch is going to be cleaned and oiled properly afterwards.

I’d like some good close up photos of your actual movement rather than one off the net because the problems with your movement will be unique to your watch.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/oils-and-oiling.92309/#post-693264

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/oils.1395/#post-9986

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Yes, with care you can let the mainspring down and undo the screws and dismantle the mainspring barrel for cleaning and reoiiling but there is a lot to know about what works best for cleaning and oiling. It isn’t wise to use just any available lubricant. It is preferable to use the specially prepared synthetic lubricants. Silicone isn’t advisable but a bit of sewing machine oil won’t hurt. if you are only oiling to see if the watch will go with added lubricant and the watch is going to be cleaned and oiled properly afterwards.

I’d like some good close up photos of your actual movement rather than one off the net because the problems with your movement will be unique to your watch.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/oils-and-oiling.92309/#post-693264

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/oils.1395/#post-9986

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/watch-oil-s.48272/

Buttin’ In Again:

My Anniversary Clock you helped with is still Spinning! :-)
Strange to think that the people upstairs bOuNcInG
down the stairs on their heels caused enough
positive gravity to loosen the connection.

I still have the back loosened,
Thanx for making me brave enough
to prise it loose in case I needed to move
to the next step of the diagnosis (the pendulum)

Why did people decide to carbonate water and other beverages?

monkey skipper said:

Why did people decide to carbonate water and other beverages?

It was probably an accidental discovery, when wine or beer was bottled before fermentation had fully ceased. The liquid continues to ferment in the bottle, but the confines of the bottle mean that the resulting CO2 gas is dissolved in the liquid.

Fizzy drinks are fun, of course, and people naturally experimented and came up with methods to produce them. These were generally ‘rule-of’thumb’ and could lead to disasters when fermentation in the bottles exceed the abilities of corks and bottles to contain the pressure.

There’s a lot of silly myths about Dom Perginon inventing the process, but it’s been around forever. Dom P set up rules which managed to control in-bottle fermentation and thus manage the process.

captain_spalding said:

monkey skipper said:

Why did people decide to carbonate water and other beverages?

It was probably an accidental discovery, when wine or beer was bottled before fermentation had fully ceased. The liquid continues to ferment in the bottle, but the confines of the bottle mean that the resulting CO2 gas is dissolved in the liquid.

Fizzy drinks are fun, of course, and people naturally experimented and came up with methods to produce them. These were generally ‘rule-of’thumb’ and could lead to disasters when fermentation in the bottles exceed the abilities of corks and bottles to contain the pressure.

There’s a lot of silly myths about Dom Perginon inventing the process, but it’s been around forever. Dom P set up rules which managed to control in-bottle fermentation and thus manage the process.

How important was a watch in the process I wonder.

I like to watch.

Ian said:

I like to watch.

almost like “Being There”

Ogmog said:

Ian said:

I like to watch.

almost like “Being There”

:)

As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.