Date: 13/01/2019 08:37:48
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1329491
Subject: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

…but nonetheless measurements are confirming contested climate change models.

The oceans are warming faster than climate reports have suggested, according to a new synthesis of temperature observations published this week. The most recent report from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change made what turned out to be a very conservative estimate of rise in ocean temperature, and scientists are advising us to adjust our expectations.

“The numbers are coming in 40 to 50 percent than the last IPCC report,” said Kevin Trenberth, a climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and an author on the report, published in Science Magazine on Thursday.

Furthermore, Trenberth said, “2018 will be the warmest year on record in the oceans” as 2017 was and 2016 before that.

Oceans cover 70 percent of the globe and absorb 93 percent of the planet’s extra heat from climate change. They are responsible for spawning disasters like hurricanes Florence and Maria and generating torrential rainfall via meteorological processes with names like “atmospheric river” and “Pineapple Express.”

….The scientists combined four data sets to paint a picture of what has been happening in the oceans since 1991. Trenberth and his co-authors say ocean heat content, which is a measure of the warmth of the water down to about 2,000 meters, is a “great metric for measuring global warming” because the data isn’t as erratic as the temperature on land, and it captures much more of the planet.

In the process, they discovered something interesting: Their data agrees with what the climate models were predicting. “Oh, maybe the models have more credibility than we thought,” Trenberth said, tongue firmly in cheek.

As the planet warms, models have proven an invaluable tool. It’s not enough to say the climate is changing — scientists want to know how it is going to change in the future. Yet these models are one of the preferred targets of climate change skeptics. They appeared to miss the so-called global warming hiatus between 1998 and 2013. At the time, scientists posited there wasn’t really a hiatus, but that the heat was simply building up in the oceans, or that there was a data collection issue. They were right, but that didn’t save the models from criticism.

This synthesis suggests the models are doing just fine. In fact, in the oceans, they are performing even better than expected, and have marched in lockstep with the extreme ocean heating observed by thousands of temperature-collecting floats all over the world. If climate models have actually performed well in the past, it gives scientists more confidence in their predictions for the future.

Full Report

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Date: 13/01/2019 09:34:02
From: transition
ID: 1329499
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

readed that

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Date: 13/01/2019 09:35:08
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1329501
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

Thanks Bubblecar.

I have Eng-tipped that.

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Date: 13/01/2019 10:21:23
From: Ian
ID: 1329522
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change made what turned out to be a very conservative estimate of rise in ocean temperature…

Like most of their projections.

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Date: 13/01/2019 12:31:01
From: dv
ID: 1329573
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

The Rev Dodgson said:


Thanks Bubblecar.

I have Eng-tipped that.

What’s that mean?

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Date: 13/01/2019 12:34:56
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1329574
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Thanks Bubblecar.

I have Eng-tipped that.

What’s that mean?

Engineering Tips is a massive site dedicated to all things engineering.

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Date: 13/01/2019 12:35:00
From: sibeen
ID: 1329575
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Thanks Bubblecar.

I have Eng-tipped that.

What’s that mean?

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=448080

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Date: 13/01/2019 12:36:26
From: sibeen
ID: 1329576
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Thanks Bubblecar.

I have Eng-tipped that.

What’s that mean?

Engineering Tips is a massive site dedicated to all things engineering. spamming engineers with advertising.

fixed

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Date: 13/01/2019 12:55:19
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1329579
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

We still don’t know why there was a massive 50% increase in native forest growth all around the world between 2012 and 2013.

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Date: 13/01/2019 13:22:47
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1329593
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

mollwollfumble said:


We still don’t know why there was a massive 50% increase in native forest growth all around the world between 2012 and 2013.

If you believe that, then there is more fuel to burn.

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Date: 14/01/2019 03:47:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1329807
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

Dangit. Was trying to find a web data source for bio-active atmospheric gases. ie. CO2, oxides of nitrogen, SO2, H2SO4.

For CO2 and oxides of nitrogen, no problem.

But would you believe that not one of the hundreds of Earth System Research Laboratory – Global Monitoring Division sites tracks SO2 or H2SO4. Not-one is tracking acid rain worldwide. https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php

Horrifying.

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Date: 14/01/2019 04:01:03
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1329808
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

mollwollfumble said:


Dangit. Was trying to find a web data source for bio-active atmospheric gases. ie. CO2, oxides of nitrogen, SO2, H2SO4.

For CO2 and oxides of nitrogen, no problem.

But would you believe that not one of the hundreds of Earth System Research Laboratory – Global Monitoring Division sites tracks SO2 or H2SO4. Not-one is tracking acid rain worldwide. https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php

Horrifying.

No. It’s OK. National Aeronautics and Space Administration – Goddard Space Flight Center is tracking global SO2. The data isn’t in quite so user-friendly a format, though. For example, it may only be available since 10 April 2018, when I’m looking for earlier.

Well would you look at this. Look at how air pollution (SO2) has declined in the eastern USA between 1980 and 2015. It’s a massive improvement.

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Date: 14/01/2019 08:39:13
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1329842
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

mollwollfumble said:


mollwollfumble said:

Dangit. Was trying to find a web data source for bio-active atmospheric gases. ie. CO2, oxides of nitrogen, SO2, H2SO4.

For CO2 and oxides of nitrogen, no problem.

But would you believe that not one of the hundreds of Earth System Research Laboratory – Global Monitoring Division sites tracks SO2 or H2SO4. Not-one is tracking acid rain worldwide. https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php

Horrifying.

No. It’s OK. National Aeronautics and Space Administration – Goddard Space Flight Center is tracking global SO2. The data isn’t in quite so user-friendly a format, though. For example, it may only be available since 10 April 2018, when I’m looking for earlier.

Well would you look at this. Look at how air pollution (SO2) has declined in the eastern USA between 1980 and 2015. It’s a massive improvement.


As Stephen Pinker says at great length, we only notice the bad news.

I’m not surprised by the great improvement overall, but it is surprising it has continued into recent years. I thought SO2 emissions were fixed at least 10years ago (at least in “Western” countries).

Certainly there was a very noticeable improvement in the Latrobe Valley between 1985 and early 2000’s.

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Date: 14/01/2019 08:43:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1329844
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Dangit. Was trying to find a web data source for bio-active atmospheric gases. ie. CO2, oxides of nitrogen, SO2, H2SO4.

For CO2 and oxides of nitrogen, no problem.

But would you believe that not one of the hundreds of Earth System Research Laboratory – Global Monitoring Division sites tracks SO2 or H2SO4. Not-one is tracking acid rain worldwide. https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/data/index.php

Horrifying.

No. It’s OK. National Aeronautics and Space Administration – Goddard Space Flight Center is tracking global SO2. The data isn’t in quite so user-friendly a format, though. For example, it may only be available since 10 April 2018, when I’m looking for earlier.

Well would you look at this. Look at how air pollution (SO2) has declined in the eastern USA between 1980 and 2015. It’s a massive improvement.


As Stephen Pinker says at great length, we only notice the bad news.

I’m not surprised by the great improvement overall, but it is surprising it has continued into recent years. I thought SO2 emissions were fixed at least 10years ago (at least in “Western” countries).

Certainly there was a very noticeable improvement in the Latrobe Valley between 1985 and early 2000’s.

It is not yet enough improvement by a long shot. the glass is more empty than full.

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Date: 15/01/2019 22:46:30
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1330669
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

I’m just dropping this link here so that I don’t lose it.

It claims that above a certain optimal temperature, photosynthesis and thus plant growth decreases fairly rapidly to zero. This has nothing to do with drought, which is a different effect. If confirmed, then it should be possible to calculate an optimum global temperature above which forest growth declines.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/content/filerepository/CMP/00/001/068/Rate%2520of%2520photosynthesis%2520limiting%2520factors.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjUpsq_2e_fAhUIFHIKHVLNDsoQFjARegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3XPC75sSQdMIWpquP78N_k

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Date: 15/01/2019 23:19:28
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1330674
Subject: re: Oceans Warming Faster Than Previously Thought

mollwollfumble said:


I’m just dropping this link here so that I don’t lose it.

It claims that above a certain optimal temperature, photosynthesis and thus plant growth decreases fairly rapidly to zero. This has nothing to do with drought, which is a different effect. If confirmed, then it should be possible to calculate an optimum global temperature above which forest growth declines.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.rsc.org/learn-chemistry/content/filerepository/CMP/00/001/068/Rate%2520of%2520photosynthesis%2520limiting%2520factors.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjUpsq_2e_fAhUIFHIKHVLNDsoQFjARegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3XPC75sSQdMIWpquP78N_k

>>“One might guess that plants growing at high CO2 would drop leaves having lower concentrations of nitrogen and phosphorus in them, not because they are taking up less nitrogen and phosphorus from the soil, but because they’re growing so fast that the same nitrogen and phosphorus concentrations are diluted by this higher growth rate,” Schlesinger said.

When microbes then decompose those nitrogen and phosphorus diluted leaves in the soil, the net result might be less nutrients — especially nitrogen — that trees would need to fuel the higher demand.

“So that higher demand would not be met,” he added. “Then the growth rate will slow. And the upshot of this would be that the pine forest would get to its ultimate size faster, but it won’t end up being any larger then it would have been had it just grown without the extra CO2.”<<

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/08/980814065506.htm

There are several such experiments, which all generally agree with the above. There are other problems too, inasmuch that the initial rapid growth will largely benefit fast growing trees at the disadvantage of slower growing ones. Climate change and drier conditions can change the entire CO2 absorption situation, when CO2 is absorbed in non-drought conditions, to a CO2 emitter when conditions become drier. What you are trying to measure involve highly variable factors, with many influencing conditions.

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