A New York laboratory has cut ties with James Watson, the Nobel Prize-winning scientist who helped discover DNA, over “reprehensible” comments in which he said race and intelligence are connected.

The Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory said it was revoking all titles and honors from Watson, 90, who led the lab for many years.

The lab “unequivocally rejects the unsubstantiated and reckless personal opinions Dr James D Watson expressed on the subject of ethnicity and genetics”, its president, Bruce Stillman, and chair of the board of trustees Marilyn Simons said in a statement.

“Dr Watson’s statements are reprehensible, unsupported by science, and in no way represent the views of CSHL, its trustees, faculty, staff, or students. The laboratory condemns the misuse of science to justify prejudice.”

With Francis Crick and Rosalind Franklin, the scientist was one of the researchers who discovered the double helix strucure of DNA in 1953.

In 2007, the lab removed him as chancellor after he told the Sunday Times he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says, not really”.

He also said that while he wished the races were equal, “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

Watson apologized at the time but in a recent documentary he said his views have not changed.

“Not at all,” he said in the PBS documentary American Masters: Decoding Watson, the New York Times reported.

“I would like for them to have changed, that there be new knowledge that says that your nurture is much more important than nature. But I haven’t seen any knowledge. And there’s a difference on the average between blacks and whites on IQ tests. I would say the difference is, it’s genetic.”

Full Report

Bubblecar said:

A New York laboratory has cut ties with James Watson, the Nobel Prize-winning scientist who helped discover DNA, over “reprehensible” comments in which he said race and intelligence are connected.

The Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory said it was revoking all titles and honors from Watson, 90, who led the lab for many years.

The lab “unequivocally rejects the unsubstantiated and reckless personal opinions Dr James D Watson expressed on the subject of ethnicity and genetics”, its president, Bruce Stillman, and chair of the board of trustees Marilyn Simons said in a statement.

“Dr Watson’s statements are reprehensible, unsupported by science, and in no way represent the views of CSHL, its trustees, faculty, staff, or students. The laboratory condemns the misuse of science to justify prejudice.”

With Francis Crick and Rosalind Franklin, the scientist was one of the researchers who discovered the double helix strucure of DNA in 1953.

In 2007, the lab removed him as chancellor after he told the Sunday Times he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says, not really”.

He also said that while he wished the races were equal, “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

Watson apologized at the time but in a recent documentary he said his views have not changed.

“Not at all,” he said in the PBS documentary American Masters: Decoding Watson, the New York Times reported.

“I would like for them to have changed, that there be new knowledge that says that your nurture is much more important than nature. But I haven’t seen any knowledge. And there’s a difference on the average between blacks and whites on IQ tests. I would say the difference is, it’s genetic.”

Full Report

Yes, I read similar from Justin.

Weird and sad knee-jerk, IHMO. He’s probably slightly demented, given his age. Remember too, that 60 or 70 years ago these were very widely held views. Perhaps he’s reverting. Who knows? And the question really only touches very slightly onto the edge of his area of expertise. Could have been handled far better IMHO.

What a dumbarse.

Perhaps show him the works of Neil deGrasse Tyson or the film Hidden Figures. Or are they fake news?

Divine Angel said:

What a dumbarse.

Perhaps show him the works of Neil deGrasse Tyson or the film Hidden Figures. Or are they fake news?

You do know he’s not saying all black people are dumb, right?

I suspect this one requires a very, very long barge pole and luckily I’m running off to go boating.

He does seem to have an almost childish faith in nature over nurture:

>He has said that stereotypes associated with racial and ethnic groups have a genetic basis: Jews being intelligent, Chinese being intelligent but not creative because of selection for conformity, and Indians being servile.<

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Controversies

Doesn’t seem to have occurred to him that in highly conformist cultures, there are traditionally very harsh social penalties for those who fail to conform, which would tend to have a much more dramatic effect than some undefined “genetic” influence.

He also seems to be interpreting the imperialist antics of the British as reflecting a naturally-imposed fate for the inferior “servile” peoples. Pretty much textbook Nazi ideology.

Oh well… the sooner people realise intelligence is genetic the easier it will be in welcoming our Chinese overlords.

Charming fellow:

On the issue of obesity, Watson was quoted in 2000, saying: “Whenever you interview fat people, you feel bad, because you know you’re not going to hire them.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Controversial_comments

The problem I suppose is you could use statistics to back you up by interpreting or presenting them in a specific way.

Many black people from Africa are poorly educated due to well you know Africa being a rather poor previously exploited colony with significant amounts of conflict combined with diseases that shouldn’t exist in modern world. Fail to mention that part and just say they are dumb.

Either-orism strikes again.

Either the intelligence (whatever that is) of individuals is completely defined by their race (whatever that is), or there is no correlation at all.

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity, but obviously the variation within any group is going to be way bigger than the difference between the individuals.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Oh well… the sooner people realise intelligence is genetic the easier it will be in welcoming our Chinese overlords.

Some studies do reveal that stress, malnutrition and other factors can/may affect the health of sperm and this could affect the genome of the child.

So in some ways it is genetic but genetic damage due to lifestyle

It could explain scientific progress drastically increasing in the last couple of centuries as our intelligence increased due to significantly better nutrition and health care.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Either-orism strikes again.

Either the intelligence (whatever that is) of individuals is completely defined by their race (whatever that is), or there is no correlation at all.

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity, but obviously the variation within any group is going to be way bigger than the difference between the individuals.

Might that not just be nurture

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Either-orism strikes again.

Either the intelligence (whatever that is) of individuals is completely defined by their race (whatever that is), or there is no correlation at all.

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity, but obviously the variation within any group is going to be way bigger than the difference between the individuals.

Might that not just be nurture

Why would it be?

That would be as unlikely as the opposite, that nurture had no effect at all.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Either-orism strikes again.

Either the intelligence (whatever that is) of individuals is completely defined by their race (whatever that is), or there is no correlation at all.

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity, but obviously the variation within any group is going to be way bigger than the difference between the individuals.

Might that not just be nurture

Why would it be?

That would be as unlikely as the opposite, that nurture had no effect at all.

Certain ethnicities aren’t represented in academia as those nations are poor, conflict ridden, lacking infrastructure, etc and people are more concerned with surviving than being educated. Fix those things and they can achieve the same as a person from a wealthy nation who can concentrate on education as all basic needs are met.

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

Might that not just be nurture

Why would it be?

That would be as unlikely as the opposite, that nurture had no effect at all.

Certain ethnicities aren’t represented in academia as those nations are poor, conflict ridden, lacking infrastructure, etc and people are more concerned with surviving than being educated. Fix those things and they can achieve the same as a person from a wealthy nation who can concentrate on education as all basic needs are met.

How can multiple people (they) achieve the same as an individual (a person)?

Of course education, poverty, etc have a huge effect on academic performance, and performance in whatever test of “intelligence” you might come up with.

That doesn’t mean that inherited attributes of the brain have no effect. How could they not have an effect?

sibeen said:

Divine Angel said:

What a dumbarse.

Perhaps show him the works of Neil deGrasse Tyson or the film Hidden Figures. Or are they fake news?

You do know he’s not saying all black people are dumb, right?

I suspect this one requires a very, very long barge pole and luckily I’m running off to go boating.

Well I don’t know about that.

If the quotes are accurate, he does seem to be saying that all black people are dumb, at least all the ones that he has met.

So the either-orism applies just as much to him as those complaining about his behaviour.

The Rev Dodgson said:

sibeen said:

Divine Angel said:

What a dumbarse.

Perhaps show him the works of Neil deGrasse Tyson or the film Hidden Figures. Or are they fake news?

You do know he’s not saying all black people are dumb, right?

I suspect this one requires a very, very long barge pole and luckily I’m running off to go boating.

Well I don’t know about that.

If the quotes are accurate, he does seem to be saying that all black people are dumb, at least all the ones that he has met.

So the either-orism applies just as much to him as those complaining about his behaviour.

You’ve have nothing to comment on without prevenalent either-orism TRD ;)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why would it be?

That would be as unlikely as the opposite, that nurture had no effect at all.

Certain ethnicities aren’t represented in academia as those nations are poor, conflict ridden, lacking infrastructure, etc and people are more concerned with surviving than being educated. Fix those things and they can achieve the same as a person from a wealthy nation who can concentrate on education as all basic needs are met.

How can multiple people (they) achieve the same as an individual (a person)?

Of course education, poverty, etc have a huge effect on academic performance, and performance in whatever test of “intelligence” you might come up with.

That doesn’t mean that inherited attributes of the brain have no effect. How could they not have an effect?

They do but if you are claiming an entire race of people are dumb it wouldn’t just be inherited something else must be in play

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

Certain ethnicities aren’t represented in academia as those nations are poor, conflict ridden, lacking infrastructure, etc and people are more concerned with surviving than being educated. Fix those things and they can achieve the same as a person from a wealthy nation who can concentrate on education as all basic needs are met.

How can multiple people (they) achieve the same as an individual (a person)?

Of course education, poverty, etc have a huge effect on academic performance, and performance in whatever test of “intelligence” you might come up with.

That doesn’t mean that inherited attributes of the brain have no effect. How could they not have an effect?

They do but if you are claiming an entire race of people are dumb it wouldn’t just be inherited something else must be in play

I am explicitly not claiming that an entire race of people is dumb, so that seems a strange comment.

In fact it is the exact opposite of what I am claiming.

poikilotherm said:

You’ve have nothing to comment on without prevenalent either-orism TRD ;)

You’d have?

True enough.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

How can multiple people (they) achieve the same as an individual (a person)?

Of course education, poverty, etc have a huge effect on academic performance, and performance in whatever test of “intelligence” you might come up with.

That doesn’t mean that inherited attributes of the brain have no effect. How could they not have an effect?

They do but if you are claiming an entire race of people are dumb it wouldn’t just be inherited something else must be in play

I am explicitly not claiming that an entire race of people is dumb, so that seems a strange comment.

In fact it is the exact opposite of what I am claiming.

You said

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity

So doesn’t that mean certain ethnicities are on average more intelligent than others

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

They do but if you are claiming an entire race of people are dumb it wouldn’t just be inherited something else must be in play

I am explicitly not claiming that an entire race of people is dumb, so that seems a strange comment.

In fact it is the exact opposite of what I am claiming.

You said

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity

So doesn’t that mean certain ethnicities are on average more intelligent than others

Yes, that is what I said.

It does not mean that one group is “intelligent”, and the other “dumb”, because the typical meaning of the word “dumb” implies a much greater deviation from average intelligence than the difference between the two groups.

It should be added that’s once environmental and cultural effects were removed it is quite possible that the average “intelligence” of Africans was greater than that of Europeans.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I am explicitly not claiming that an entire race of people is dumb, so that seems a strange comment.

In fact it is the exact opposite of what I am claiming.

You said

It would be extraordinary if there was no correlation between average intelligence and ethnicity

So doesn’t that mean certain ethnicities are on average more intelligent than others

Yes, that is what I said.

It does not mean that one group is “intelligent”, and the other “dumb”, because the typical meaning of the word “dumb” implies a much greater deviation from average intelligence than the difference between the two groups.

OK then

He got some bad press over comments about aborting fetuses with the gay gene but he has since suggested he was misrepresented, issuing the following clarification:

“During an interview, I was asked about homosexuality and I related a story about a woman who felt her life had been ruined because her son was a homosexual and she would never have grandchildren. I simply said that women in that situation should have a choice over whether or not to abort. I didn’t say that foetuses found to have a gay gene should be aborted.”

It has long been well known that IQ tests themselves are not perfect. One of the recurring problems is that they are culturally biased. I would not be putting too much faith in IQ tests in which Africans do worse than Europeans or North Americans, other than to indicate the cultural bias of the testing.

The Rev Dodgson said:

It should be added that’s once environmental and cultural effects were removed it is quite possible that the average “intelligence” of Africans was greater than that of Europeans.

Ogmog said:

How, hasn’t that cartoon aged well lol

Should be pointed out that all he has been stripped of is his honorary title of Professor emeritus from one institution, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory.

He still holds dozens of awards and titles.

Aren’t all modern humans more closely related than chimps who live a few hundred kms apart? I suppose there could be some genetic variation that has built up over time but over the span of human history it would suggest that uppity poms are less intelligent than Egyptians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, the Chinese, and indigenous Mexicans and Peruvians.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Aren’t all modern humans more closely related than chimps who live a few hundred kms apart? I suppose there could be some genetic variation that has built up over time but over the span of human history it would suggest that uppity poms are less intelligent than Egyptians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, the Chinese, and indigenous Mexicans and Peruvians.

Intelligence could rise and fall amongst different cultures, you reach the height of your power and on the downwards slope the general intelligence also starts to go down.

Reminds me of the opinions concerning Blue Poles.

So is he just going senile or has he always held these views?

Also TRD it’s quite possible there is no variation in intelligence at all between “races”. For one thing, race isn’t a very tight definition in the first place. For another, every environment humans have found themselves in is likely to have elicited maximum intelligence development from the population – especially if it’s true that intelligence developed to facilitate communication and gossip.

especially if it’s true that intelligence developed to facilitate communication and gossip.

So talk shows hosts and guests must be geniuses

Cymek said:

especially if it’s true that intelligence developed to facilitate communication and gossip.

So talk shows hosts and guests must be geniuses

They may well be a lot smarter than average, but that doesn’t mean they’re using their intelligence for good and not evil.

/* every environment humans have found themselves in is likely to have elicited maximum intelligence development */

LOL

dv said:

Should be pointed out that all he has been stripped of is his honorary title of Professor emeritus from one institution, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory.

He still holds dozens of awards and titles.

I believe numerous institutions are withdrawing his awards:

That being said, do his opinions take away from his achievements? Were they any less because of his views?

Obviousman said:

I believe numerous institutions are withdrawing his awards:

Can you provide a reference for that?

Obviousman said:

dv said:

Should be pointed out that all he has been stripped of is his honorary title of Professor emeritus from one institution, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory.

He still holds dozens of awards and titles.

I believe numerous institutions are withdrawing his awards:

That being said, do his opinions take away from his achievements? Were they any less because of his views?

Not really, scandals taint people’s work though and that’s what they usually get remembered for

Only the CHSL ones are listed as revoked here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Honorary_degrees_received

dv said:

Obviousman said:

I believe numerous institutions are withdrawing his awards:

Can you provide a reference for that?

I’ll try. Give me some time.

dv said:

Obviousman said:

I believe numerous institutions are withdrawing his awards:

Can you provide a reference for that?

Holiday Forum, 2019, Jan. 16.

Bubblecar said:

Only the CHSL ones are listed as revoked here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Honorary_degrees_received

CHSL = CSHL.

I asked because it made me think of Bill Cosby. Yes, he has done reprehensible things but does that make his comedy any less funny?

Bubblecar said:

Only the CHSL ones are listed as revoked here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watson#Honorary_degrees_received

That’s what i looked at but I seem to remember a list that had numerous withdrawals. I’ll see if i can find out where i saw it.

Obviousman said:

I asked because it made me think of Bill Cosby. Yes, he has done reprehensible things but does that make his comedy any less funny?

I wonder about that is The Cosby Show for example dead and no one will show it again.
You can still like his comedy but should you feel guilty for it, its not really supporting what he did

Obviousman said:

dv said:

Obviousman said:

I believe numerous institutions are withdrawing his awards:

Can you provide a reference for that?

I’ll try. Give me some time.

I can’t find what I (think) I read, so I’ll withdraw the statement.

I mean his views on race and IQ are already well known, and honestly he is part of a pretty large group of scientists with similar views. It is a controversial area, with good faith disagreement between educated people.

If he was going to get pinged just for saying that he believes Africans have low IQs for genetic reasons, he never would have received the emeritus title in the first place because he’s always been saying that.

I think that in this case he went too far in that he politicised the comments while at the same time being too general, with the following two comments.

“All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really.”

and

“There is a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

The first comment extends beyond the scope of a discussion of genetics into racial politics. The second comment is very general and seems to almost suggest that all black employees are going to be stupid.

Like I said … this emeritus professorship that he’s lost is not exactly the jewel in the crown of someone who has a Nobel fkn Prize, so you don’t need to be dropping round to his house with a care package to check he’s alright.

Obviousman said:

Obviousman said:

dv said:

Can you provide a reference for that?

I’ll try. Give me some time.

I can’t find what I (think) I read, so I’ll withdraw the statement.

That’s not standard forum behaviour

dv said:

I mean his views on race and IQ are already well known, and honestly he is part of a pretty large group of scientists with similar views. It is a controversial area, with good faith disagreement between educated people.

If he was going to get pinged just for saying that he believes Africans have low IQs for genetic reasons, he never would have received the emeritus title in the first place because he’s always been saying that.

I think that in this case he went too far in that he politicised the comments while at the same time being too general, with the following two comments.

“All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really.”

and

“There is a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

The first comment extends beyond the scope of a discussion of genetics into racial politics. The second comment is very general and seems to almost suggest that all black employees are going to be stupid.

Like I said … this emeritus professorship that he’s lost is not exactly the jewel in the crown of someone who has a Nobel fkn Prize, so you don’t need to be dropping round to his house with a care package to check he’s alright.

And he did sell his Nobel medal for some millions of dollars.

Obviousman said:

I asked because it made me think of Bill Cosby. Yes, he has done reprehensible things but does that make his comedy any less funny?

In some cases. I used to have tapes of his stand up act, like 40 years ago, and now I don’t think I would laugh much when he’s talking about how to deal with women and so on.

Cymek said:

Obviousman said:

Obviousman said:

I’ll try. Give me some time.

I can’t find what I (think) I read, so I’ll withdraw the statement.

That’s not standard forum behaviour

Okay, how about this? ***************************

Hey! Somebody has remove the page that supported all I said! It must be the Gubmint or something redacting the troof so that the sheeple won’t find out what’s really happening out there! Either that or aliens.

He hasn’t commented on these developments. Apparently he was involved in a car accident recently and is receiving medical care, but there are no details.

Obviousman said:

I’ll try. Give me some time.

I can’t find what I (think) I read, so I’ll withdraw the statement.

Obviousman, that’s very good form. Thank you.

dv said:

Obviousman said:

I asked because it made me think of Bill Cosby. Yes, he has done reprehensible things but does that make his comedy any less funny?

In some cases. I used to have tapes of his stand up act, like 40 years ago, and now I don’t think I would laugh much when he’s talking about how to deal with women and so on.

I dont agree with the no platforming thing. The works albeit informed by the artists if they had merit retain merit, and it should end up to the individual to view or listen to them. I am of the same view of monuments, they speak to a time, and circumstance which is not ours. Instead of trying to bury it, if the politics have changed, or the vanquished now victor incorporate that into the work, a separate explanatory piece or its circumstance and how it reflects within a period.

Too much judging previous figures in history by standards and norms that are new and different.

Obviousman said:

Cymek said:

Obviousman said:

I can’t find what I (think) I read, so I’ll withdraw the statement.

That’s not standard forum behaviour

Okay, how about this? ***************************

Hey! Somebody has remove the page that supported all I said! It must be the Gubmint or something redacting the troof so that the sheeple won’t find out what’s really happening out there! Either that or aliens.

Nearly there. Could you please call me a communist faggot?

Obviousman said:

Cymek said:

Obviousman said:

I can’t find what I (think) I read, so I’ll withdraw the statement.

That’s not standard forum behaviour

Okay, how about this? ***************************

Hey! Somebody has remove the page that supported all I said! It must be the Gubmint or something redacting the troof so that the sheeple won’t find out what’s really happening out there! Either that or aliens.

Better

dv said:

Obviousman said:

Cymek said:

That’s not standard forum behaviour

Okay, how about this? ***************************

Hey! Somebody has remove the page that supported all I said! It must be the Gubmint or something redacting the troof so that the sheeple won’t find out what’s really happening out there! Either that or aliens.

Nearly there. Could you please call me a communist faggot?

So, is that a bundle of communists tied together or a gay communist?

>I am of the same view of monuments, they speak to a time, and circumstance which is not ours.

Which makes it fair enough if contemporary people decide to remove them from prominent public spaces and shove them in a museum or whatever.

Michael V said:

dv said:

I mean his views on race and IQ are already well known, and honestly he is part of a pretty large group of scientists with similar views. It is a controversial area, with good faith disagreement between educated people.

If he was going to get pinged just for saying that he believes Africans have low IQs for genetic reasons, he never would have received the emeritus title in the first place because he’s always been saying that.

I think that in this case he went too far in that he politicised the comments while at the same time being too general, with the following two comments.

“All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really.”

and

“There is a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

The first comment extends beyond the scope of a discussion of genetics into racial politics. The second comment is very general and seems to almost suggest that all black employees are going to be stupid.

Like I said … this emeritus professorship that he’s lost is not exactly the jewel in the crown of someone who has a Nobel fkn Prize, so you don’t need to be dropping round to his house with a care package to check he’s alright.

And he did sell his Nobel medal for some millions of dollars.

Did the buyer crudely cross out his name and insert their own I wonder

Bubblecar said:

>I am of the same view of monuments, they speak to a time, and circumstance which is not ours.

Which makes it fair enough if contemporary people decide to remove them from prominent public spaces and shove them in a museum or whatever.

I don’t agree, though I can see it would be a convenient solution. You lose the significance if it is relegated to a museum storage cellar or worse destroyed. But each individual community will makes its judgment I guess.

AwesomeO said:

Bubblecar said:

>I am of the same view of monuments, they speak to a time, and circumstance which is not ours.

Which makes it fair enough if contemporary people decide to remove them from prominent public spaces and shove them in a museum or whatever.

I don’t agree, though I can see it would be a convenient solution. You lose the significance if it is relegated to a museum storage cellar or worse destroyed. But each individual community will makes its judgment I guess.

They could just be removed if someone achieves something greater or more worthy.

Cymek said:

AwesomeO said:

Bubblecar said:

>I am of the same view of monuments, they speak to a time, and circumstance which is not ours.

Which makes it fair enough if contemporary people decide to remove them from prominent public spaces and shove them in a museum or whatever.

I don’t agree, though I can see it would be a convenient solution. You lose the significance if it is relegated to a museum storage cellar or worse destroyed. But each individual community will makes its judgment I guess.

They could just be removed if someone achieves something greater or more worthy.

Well that’s not normally the way, if a community feels like honouring someone funds are raised and a park is made or dedication of some sort is done, or statue erected, they don’t usually pull something else down to maintain numbers or whatever.

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

Obviousman said:

I asked because it made me think of Bill Cosby. Yes, he has done reprehensible things but does that make his comedy any less funny?

In some cases. I used to have tapes of his stand up act, like 40 years ago, and now I don’t think I would laugh much when he’s talking about how to deal with women and so on.

I dont agree with the no platforming thing. The works albeit informed by the artists if they had merit retain merit, and it should end up to the individual to view or listen to them. I am of the same view of monuments, they speak to a time, and circumstance which is not ours. Instead of trying to bury it, if the politics have changed, or the vanquished now victor incorporate that into the work, a separate explanatory piece or its circumstance and how it reflects within a period.

Too much judging previous figures in history by standards and norms that are new and different.

Yes.

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming. Organisations have the right to choose who they are going to host. Sons of Odin are not going to pay me to go to their place and give them a speech, and I wouldn’t expect an institution that I’m involved with the pay one of them to come and give a speech. Deplatforming is just part of freedom of expression.

dv said:

Obviousman said:

Cymek said:

That’s not standard forum behaviour

Okay, how about this? ***************************

Hey! Somebody has remove the page that supported all I said! It must be the Gubmint or something redacting the troof so that the sheeple won’t find out what’s really happening out there! Either that or aliens.

Nearly there. Could you please call me a communist faggot?

You asked for it, communist faggot.

dv said:

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming. Organisations have the right to choose who they are going to host. Sons of Odin are not going to pay me to go to their place and give them a speech, and I wouldn’t expect an institution that I’m involved with the pay one of them to come and give a speech. Deplatforming is just part of freedom of expression.

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

Obviousman said:

I asked because it made me think of Bill Cosby. Yes, he has done reprehensible things but does that make his comedy any less funny?

NO because he wasn’t ever funny. It was the people who watched him that were funny, peculiar.

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming. Organisations have the right to choose who they are going to host. Sons of Odin are not going to pay me to go to their place and give them a speech, and I wouldn’t expect an institution that I’m involved with the pay one of them to come and give a speech. Deplatforming is just part of freedom of expression.

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

plis explain? what is deplatforming rent? in relation to Bettina?

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

dv said:

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming. Organisations have the right to choose who they are going to host. Sons of Odin are not going to pay me to go to their place and give them a speech, and I wouldn’t expect an institution that I’m involved with the pay one of them to come and give a speech. Deplatforming is just part of freedom of expression.

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

plis explain? what is deplatforming rent? in relation to Bettina?

She was to address a university audience on the statistics and analysis that informed the rape crisis and never got a chance.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

plis explain? what is deplatforming rent? in relation to Bettina?

She was to address a university audience on the statistics and analysis that informed the rape crisis and never got a chance.

I believe one of her talks was cancelled, others went ahead.

I’m sure she enjoys (and benefits from) the noisy publicity of the protests and de-platforming, since she’s a career controversialist and needs the attention for book sales etc.

Slim Dusty is still an approved artist to listen to for now, well until the ‘progressives’ in the politburo have a review of his body of work.

Peak Warming Man said:

Slim Dusty is still an approved artist to listen to for now, well until the ‘progressives’ in the politburo have a review of his body of work.

His name could make obese people feel inadequate, so its should be changed to Underweight Dusty or I’mnotafatbastard Dusty

Peak Warming Man said:

Slim Dusty is still an approved artist to listen to for now, well until the ‘progressives’ in the politburo have a review of his body of work.

He’s already been nobbled

“We drink in moderation
And we never ever ever get rollin’ drunk”

Peak Warming Man said:

Slim Dusty is still an approved artist to listen to for now, well until the ‘progressives’ in the politburo have a review of his body of work.

He liked to have a beer with a diverse range of people albeit all with male names, but some of them were probably trans or black etc, so his legacy is probably safe for the time being.

AwesomeO said:

roughbarked said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

plis explain? what is deplatforming rent? in relation to Bettina?

She was to address a university audience on the statistics and analysis that informed the rape crisis and never got a chance.

I see.

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Slim Dusty is still an approved artist to listen to for now, well until the ‘progressives’ in the politburo have a review of his body of work.

His name could make obese people feel inadequate, so its should be changed to Underweight Dusty or I’mnotafatbastard Dusty

Would that also apply to Slim Pickens?

AwesomeO said:

Too much judging previous figures in history by standards and norms that are new and different.

dunno.. rape has been frowned upon for a few years now..

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

I’m not comfortable with “deplatformed” as a word.. I am sorry.

dv said:

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming.

oh it’s his monstrosity.

sorry Curve

Dropbear said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

I’m not comfortable with “deplatformed” as a word.. I am sorry.

It doesn’t sit well with me either.

Dropbear said:

AwesomeO said:

Too much judging previous figures in history by standards and norms that are new and different.

dunno.. rape has been frowned upon for a few years now..

Yes. And Cosby’s humour depends on the audience accepting his persona of a warm, “nice” guy full of empathy etc, which is hard to maintain once you know he’s a serial rapist.

Dropbear said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

I’m not comfortable with “deplatformed” as a word.. I am sorry.

Careful, or you’ll be deforummed.

Also, Facebook warriors are saying that he ‘borrowed’ his award winning work anyway.

roughbarked said:

It doesn’t sit well with me either.

Nod, I’ll wait for DVs apology.

Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

It doesn’t sit well with me either.

Nod, I’ll wait for DVs apology.

you certainly will

Dropbear said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

I’m not comfortable with “deplatformed” as a word.. I am sorry.

You’ll find yourself deplatformed pretty quickly, with wotten comments like that.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

AwesomeO said:

Whilst I agree organisations have that right, I think generally it should be resisted. You know when people like Bettina Andt are getting deplatformed rent a crowd is out of control.

I’m not comfortable with “deplatformed” as a word.. I am sorry.

You’ll find yourself deplatformed pretty quickly, with wotten comments like that.

I’m going to go with disenplatformafied.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Slim Dusty is still an approved artist to listen to for now, well until the ‘progressives’ in the politburo have a review of his body of work.

His name could make obese people feel inadequate, so its should be changed to Underweight Dusty or I’mnotafatbastard Dusty

Would that also apply to Slim Pickens?

How much force is need to squash a spider?

a slim newton

Dropbear said:

dv said:

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming.

oh it’s his monstrosity.

sorry Curve

I didn’t invent the damn term and I wasn’t the first to use it in this thread…

Arts said:

Also, Facebook warriors are saying that he ‘borrowed’ his award winning work anyway.

There’s some truth there

I have a statue in my home town, it reads “Zarkov for his discovery of metal poisoning and water powered landrovers”

dv said:

Arts said:

Also, Facebook warriors are saying that he ‘borrowed’ his award winning work anyway.

There’s some truth there

Who from?

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Arts said:

Also, Facebook warriors are saying that he ‘borrowed’ his award winning work anyway.

There’s some truth there

Who from?

Rosalind Franklin

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Arts said:

Also, Facebook warriors are saying that he ‘borrowed’ his award winning work anyway.

There’s some truth there

Who from?

Fat Albert and the gang went off the rails when they heard what Bill Cosby had done, they know run the drug trade in most of North Philadelphia

dv said:

Dropbear said:

dv said:

I don’t have a problem with deplatforming.

oh it’s his monstrosity.

sorry Curve

I didn’t invent the damn term and I wasn’t the first to use it in this thread…

chuckles quietly…

sometimes it’s the minor victories.. an irritation here, an annoyance there..

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

There’s some truth there

Who from?

Rosalind Franklin

I thought they all contributed original work to the end product.

Dropbear said:

dv said:

Dropbear said:

oh it’s his monstrosity.

sorry Curve

I didn’t invent the damn term and I wasn’t the first to use it in this thread…

chuckles quietly…

sometimes it’s the minor victories.. an irritation here, an annoyance there..

“ I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you stronger. “

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Who from?

Rosalind Franklin

I thought they all contributed original work to the end product.

That’s probably a fair assessment.

On the other hand, Franklin was the only one who didn’t get a NP so…

Arts said:

Also, Facebook warriors are saying that he ‘borrowed’ his award winning work anyway.

To some extent this could be seen as true, but it’s much much more complicated than that.

I just hope the Rieu isn’t brought down, imagine the world’s finest violinist involved in such a scandal, Stradawhoveus would turn in his grave

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Rosalind Franklin

I thought they all contributed original work to the end product.

That’s probably a fair assessment.

On the other hand, Franklin was the only one who didn’t get a NP so…

Well if these women will go and die before their time …

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Rosalind Franklin

I thought they all contributed original work to the end product.

That’s probably a fair assessment.

On the other hand, Franklin was the only one who didn’t get a NP so…

To be fair, the NP committee have never awarded a NP posthumously, and RF died in 1958, whilst the prize was awarded to the others in 1962. Watson himself said RF should have shared the award.

btm said:

To be fair, the NP committee have never awarded a NP posthumously, and RF died in 1958, whilst the prize was awarded to the others in 1962. Watson himself said RF should have shared the award.

Fair comment though note that three Nobel prizes have been awarded posthumously and in 1962 there was no proscription against it.

Not that it would have done her much good, but fair to say that her contribution was not widely acclaimed until quite some time after her death.

dv said:

btm said:

To be fair, the NP committee have never awarded a NP posthumously, and RF died in 1958, whilst the prize was awarded to the others in 1962. Watson himself said RF should have shared the award.

Fair comment though note that three Nobel prizes have been awarded posthumously and in 1962 there was no proscription against it.

Not that it would have done her much good, but fair to say that her contribution was not widely acclaimed until quite some time after her death.

Better late than never?

I guess the chap felt that his native intelligence was threatened with being dissolved by egalitarianism.

I mean who hasn’t been shot with the equality gun, or seen someone more stupid than yourself waving it around.

transition said:

I guess the chap felt that his native intelligence was threatened with being dissolved by egalitarianism.

I mean who hasn’t been shot with the equality gun, or seen someone more stupid than yourself waving it around.

I’m guessing that any ultrabright black people working for Watson have seen it a bit.