Date: 16/01/2019 23:03:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331273
Subject: There's already too many out there

If we were to stop manufacture of all guns today, those that are out there would still cause problems for a long period.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:04:57
From: party_pants
ID: 1331274
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


If we were to stop manufacture of all guns today, those that are out there would still cause problems for a long period.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:05:23
From: party_pants
ID: 1331275
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

the key would be in restricting the supply of ammo too.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:05:29
From: dv
ID: 1331276
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


If we were to stop manufacture of all guns today, those that are out there would still cause problems for a long period.

Well not necessarily.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:07:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331278
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

party_pants said:


the key would be in restricting the supply of ammo too.

There are lots of shooters who make their own bullets.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:08:09
From: party_pants
ID: 1331279
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:08:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331280
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

dv said:


roughbarked said:

If we were to stop manufacture of all guns today, those that are out there would still cause problems for a long period.

Well not necessarily.

If so, how would you describe that?

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:09:56
From: Arts
ID: 1331282
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

party_pants said:


How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

Howard did it

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:10:04
From: Rule 303
ID: 1331283
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

party_pants said:


How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

I didn’t know there was a ‘use-by’ date on ammo…

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:10:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1331285
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

the key would be in restricting the supply of ammo too.

There are lots of shooters who make their own bullets.

they buy the powder.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:11:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331286
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Arts said:


party_pants said:

How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

Howard did it

There are still heaps of semi-autos out there that the gun cops only can guess about until they find them all.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:11:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331288
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Rule 303 said:


party_pants said:

How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

I didn’t know there was a ‘use-by’ date on ammo…

Unexploded ordinance is always dangerous.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:11:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331289
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

the key would be in restricting the supply of ammo too.

There are lots of shooters who make their own bullets.

they buy the powder.

A crude powder can be made in any backyard.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:13:36
From: Rule 303
ID: 1331293
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


Arts said:

party_pants said:

How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

Howard did it

There are still heaps of semi-autos out there that the gun cops only can guess about until they find them all.

We had semi-autos as farm rifles and shotties when I was a kid.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:15:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331296
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Rule 303 said:


roughbarked said:

Arts said:

Howard did it

There are still heaps of semi-autos out there that the gun cops only can guess about until they find them all.

We had semi-autos as farm rifles and shotties when I was a kid.

I know they crushed a lot but A guy came here telling me he was part of the gun collection thing and at the same time he said he buried five for every one he handed in so I didn’t sell him the one that was in my shed at the time.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:15:59
From: party_pants
ID: 1331297
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

There are lots of shooters who make their own bullets.

they buy the powder.

A crude powder can be made in any backyard.

there’s always a few who will try it, but only a few percent.

The other things you can do is ban the sale of second hand arms. Disposal only by selling it back to the authorities. Jail time with hard labour and all that stuff.

You won’t get every single gun out of circulation, but you can reduce it by a fair margin.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:17:09
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 1331300
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


Rule 303 said:

roughbarked said:

There are still heaps of semi-autos out there that the gun cops only can guess about until they find them all.

We had semi-autos as farm rifles and shotties when I was a kid.

I know they crushed a lot but A guy came here telling me he was part of the gun collection thing and at the same time he said he buried five for every one he handed in so I didn’t sell him the one that was in my shed at the time.

well burying them is just as good for being out of circulation.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:17:45
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331301
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

they buy the powder.

A crude powder can be made in any backyard.

there’s always a few who will try it, but only a few percent.

The other things you can do is ban the sale of second hand arms. Disposal only by selling it back to the authorities. Jail time with hard labour and all that stuff.

You won’t get every single gun out of circulation, but you can reduce it by a fair margin.

Australia has always had to have good gun las and enforcment of them but there are always plenty of people willing to flout laws even after they have been caught and punished several times.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:19:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331303
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Bogsnorkler said:


roughbarked said:

Rule 303 said:

We had semi-autos as farm rifles and shotties when I was a kid.

I know they crushed a lot but A guy came here telling me he was part of the gun collection thing and at the same time he said he buried five for every one he handed in so I didn’t sell him the one that was in my shed at the time.

well burying them is just as good for being out of circulation.

There’s a point. If done properly though, they can be sold again later.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:21:43
From: party_pants
ID: 1331306
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

A crude powder can be made in any backyard.

there’s always a few who will try it, but only a few percent.

The other things you can do is ban the sale of second hand arms. Disposal only by selling it back to the authorities. Jail time with hard labour and all that stuff.

You won’t get every single gun out of circulation, but you can reduce it by a fair margin.

Australia has always had to have good gun las and enforcment of them but there are always plenty of people willing to flout laws even after they have been caught and punished several times.

Yes, I know. That was my point. It’s like a mathematical equation where you reduce something by a certain percentage each year, but you never get completely down to zero. But you could get it down to negligible or statistically insignificant.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:23:16
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331310
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

there’s always a few who will try it, but only a few percent.

The other things you can do is ban the sale of second hand arms. Disposal only by selling it back to the authorities. Jail time with hard labour and all that stuff.

You won’t get every single gun out of circulation, but you can reduce it by a fair margin.

Australia has always had to have good gun las and enforcment of them but there are always plenty of people willing to flout laws even after they have been caught and punished several times.

Yes, I know. That was my point. It’s like a mathematical equation where you reduce something by a certain percentage each year, but you never get completely down to zero. But you could get it down to negligible or statistically insignificant.

Over a good deal of tiime yep.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:27:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1331313
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


Bogsnorkler said:

well burying them is just as good for being out of circulation.

There’s a point. If done properly though, they can be sold again later.

Some weapons don’t even need ‘properly’.

I know of an AK-47 that was buried, bare, in the ground of a monsoonal country for at least a year.

When found, It was able to be immediately cocked, and it rattled off nearly a full magazine as if it had just come off the assembly line.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:29:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331316
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

well burying them is just as good for being out of circulation.

There’s a point. If done properly though, they can be sold again later.

Some weapons don’t even need ‘properly’.

I know of an AK-47 that was buried, bare, in the ground of a monsoonal country for at least a year.

When found, It was able to be immediately cocked, and it rattled off nearly a full magazine as if it had just come off the assembly line.

that was why it was made in the first place.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:30:06
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1331318
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

There’s a point. If done properly though, they can be sold again later.

Some weapons don’t even need ‘properly’.

I know of an AK-47 that was buried, bare, in the ground of a monsoonal country for at least a year.

When found, It was able to be immediately cocked, and it rattled off nearly a full magazine as if it had just come off the assembly line.

that was why it was made in the first place.

The peasant-proof rifle.

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Date: 16/01/2019 23:45:17
From: dv
ID: 1331320
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


dv said:

roughbarked said:

If we were to stop manufacture of all guns today, those that are out there would still cause problems for a long period.

Well not necessarily.

If so, how would you describe that?

Well the guns could be properly regulated, distributed to law enforcement and military and sporting clubs, or even destroyed.

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Date: 17/01/2019 02:14:57
From: Kothos
ID: 1331338
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Rule 303 said:


party_pants said:

How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

I didn’t know there was a ‘use-by’ date on ammo…

There is. It doesn’t work after you’ve used it.

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Date: 17/01/2019 02:17:56
From: dv
ID: 1331339
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Kothos said:


Rule 303 said:

party_pants said:

How long is rifle ammo good for – 10-15 years?

So it won’t happen overnight.

I didn’t know there was a ‘use-by’ date on ammo…

There is. It doesn’t work after you’ve used it.

Presumable there will be some point of time beyond which the powder has decomposed or otherwise denatured.

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Date: 17/01/2019 02:33:42
From: Kothos
ID: 1331342
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

dv said:


Kothos said:

Rule 303 said:

I didn’t know there was a ‘use-by’ date on ammo…

There is. It doesn’t work after you’ve used it.

Presumable there will be some point of time beyond which the powder has decomposed or otherwise denatured.

Yeah but guns and ammo do tend to get used. There’s natural attrition.

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Date: 17/01/2019 05:48:21
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1331361
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

well burying them is just as good for being out of circulation.

There’s a point. If done properly though, they can be sold again later.

Some weapons don’t even need ‘properly’.

I know of an AK-47 that was buried, bare, in the ground of a monsoonal country for at least a year.

When found, It was able to be immediately cocked, and it rattled off nearly a full magazine as if it had just come off the assembly line.

Cripes. Someone was brave enough to do that !

> If we were to stop manufacture of all guns today, those that are out there would still cause problems for a long period.

A year or so I wondered what the direct consequences of a global economic collapse would be. No computer manufacture for starters. No new cars or jet aircraft, although both motorbikes and trucks would continue to be made, etc. No new nuclear weapons. I concluded that gun manufacture would continue, but let me rethink that.

Current gun manufacturers include, um, about 35 or so major brands in 10 or so countries. How many would collapse as a result of global economic collapse? Perhaps those that produce large volumes of intricate weapons. Even there, there would be workers in each place capable of hand-making something similar.

Rifles / shotguns are easy to make. Pistols can be hand made at home. I was a bit shocked to see a plastic kids toy from China with an automatic ammo feeder – very simple design that would be easy to incorporate into a home-made rifle. Machine guns I know nothing about, but I can’t imagine us ever losing the technology required to make them.

Unlike computers, mobile phones, bright LEDs, jet aircraft, nuclear weapons, spacecraft, I can’t ever imagine losing the technology required to create guns and ammo or the desire to do so.

The positive note here is that countries that currently do not manufacture guns in large volumes probably wouldn’t quickly acquire the ability to do so.

Have a quick look here https://www.un.org/africarenewal/magazine/december-2011/small-arms-africa

“The dry rolling plains of northern Kenya seem an unlikely place for an arms race … outfitting their young men with cheap, reliable and deadly automatic rifles from the war zones of Somalia, Ethiopia and Sudan. … small arms, which include rifles, pistols and light machine guns, are filling African graves in ever-increasing numbers”

“While the international community searches, so far unsuccessfully, for agreement on the regulation of the global trade in small arms, a growing number of African countries, UN agencies and non-governmental organizations are grappling with the human and development consequences of gun violence and seeking to reduce both the supply and the demand … The collapse of the Soviet bloc saw a new flood of small arms entering Africa as manufacturers put additional millions of surplus Cold War-era weapons on the international arms market at cut-rate prices. In some parts of Africa, a Soviet-designed AK-47 assault rifle, coveted for its simplicity and firepower, can be purchased for as little as $6”

“Unlike heavy weapons systems, which can be costly to acquire and operate and comparatively easy to decommission or monitor”

“South Africa has suffered considerably from the misuse of small arms since the end of apartheid in 1994, and has moved aggressively to reduce their availability. Unlike most other African countries, South Africa has a large number of small arms in legal circulation. … Assessing the peacetime impact of small arms on South Africa and other African countries is difficult. … A 1997 study of 1,000 gunshot victims in South Africa”

“Globally, WHO put the number of violent deaths from all causes in 1998 at 2.3 million. Several hundred thousand of these are believed to be gunshot victims: 42 per cent as a result of suicide, 32 per cent by murder and 26 per cent by war. … more criminals are arming themselves and access to firearms has become easier compared to previous years … Even where guns are not widely used, said UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF) small arms project officer Ms. Lieke van de Wiel, the social fabric of society really changes if the weapons are present”

“While gun manufacturers argue that small arms are ideal self-defence weapons for women — equalizers in a fight with larger and more powerful men — males continue to exercise a near-monopoly on the ownership and control of weapons. Far from liberating women from the fear of violence, the ready availability of guns makes matters worse.”

“The governments of some of the African countries most affected by gun violence, including Mali and South Africa, are moving aggressively to challenge the culture of violence. In 1995 the South African and Mozambican governments began joint operations to curtail the flow of apartheid-era weapons entering South Africa illegally. By the end of 1998, a series of missions, dubbed “Operations Rachel,” had located and destroyed over 400 tonnes of light weapons and over 40 mn rounds of ammunition. Several months later the South African government announced that it would destroy domestic stocks of surplus and confiscated weapons instead of selling them. The new programme, Operation Mouflon, formally began on 6 July 2000 with the destruction of some 63,000 assault rifles, pistols and machine guns, among nearly 263,000 small arms scheduled for destruction. Mali collected and publicly destroyed over 3,000 weapons in a bonfire on 27 March 1996. That action was followed by the adoption, on 31 October 1998, of a three-year moratorium on the import of light weapons into the region.”

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Date: 17/01/2019 06:40:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331367
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

mollwollfumble said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

There’s a point. If done properly though, they can be sold again later.

Some weapons don’t even need ‘properly’.

I know of an AK-47 that was buried, bare, in the ground of a monsoonal country for at least a year.

When found, It was able to be immediately cocked, and it rattled off nearly a full magazine as if it had just come off the assembly line.

Cripes. Someone was brave enough to do that !

The AK-47 was specifically designed to be carried through water and dropped in mud and etc, the average fare of life at a war front because Kalashkinov had seen too many guns that failed this test. It is now like the granny smith apple. All around the world in almost everyone’s backyard.

http://gunbelts.com/blog/ammo-shelf-life/

Contrary to popular belief Ammo does have a certain shelf life. It is usually long enough to outlive the owner, and most shooters will probably expend the ammo in target practice long before the ammo shelf life becomes a factor.

However, it is useful to remember that under certain conditions ammunition can deteriorate quickly. https://www.ifatactical.com/rifle-ammo-shelf-life-how-long-are-bullets-good-for/

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Date: 17/01/2019 06:47:18
From: dv
ID: 1331369
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

What is the most common propellant used in modern handgun ammunition?

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Date: 17/01/2019 06:48:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331370
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

dv said:


What is the most common propellant used in modern handgun ammunition?

cordite.

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Date: 17/01/2019 06:50:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331371
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

roughbarked said:


dv said:

What is the most common propellant used in modern handgun ammunition?

cordite.

or cordite was.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordite

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Date: 17/01/2019 07:06:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1331372
Subject: re: There's already too many out there

Anyway, the nub of the matter:

Conditions that can extend shelf life

Store your ammunition in a dark, dry room, and your ammo will last for a few decades.

If for whatever reason you want your ammunition to last longer, there are some other measures you can take:

Store ammunition in a dark cellar with the humidity-controller device may prolong ammo shelf life. Keep ammo in vacuum-sealed containers. This will preserve ammunition almost indefinitely.
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