Homeschooling is increasingly being chosen by normal people who don’t like the stress and standardisation of increasingly narrow formal schooling.
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10716022
I wonder what proportion of them are religious fundamentalists.
Bubblecar said:
I wonder what proportion of them are religious fundamentalists.
I wonder what proportion of them are former hippies.
Actually, I’m surprised. I thought that home-schooling was on the decline. Access to public schools is easier than ever before, and the days when families could afford a live-in tutor for the children are long gone.
One of my brothers is planning on home schooling his child.
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.
How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
Kids grow up into adults and don’t have very much emotional control, hence 600 police calls for domestic violence.
Bubblecar said:
I wonder what proportion of them are religious fundamentalists.
favourable to schoolism that question, not your intention though.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
How can they teach that when the teachers have no clue about it ???
Dropbear said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
How can they teach that when the teachers have no clue about it ???
Cant teachers learn new things to teach?
a few of them can but most are lazy as anything and also …
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-18/students-lowest-atar-scores-teaching-degree-offers-secret-report/10200666
… impressively intelligent
Tau.Neutrino said:
Dropbear said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
How can they teach that when the teachers have no clue about it ???
Cant teachers learn new things to teach?
why should these be the school’s responsibility to teach? they sound more like what good parenting should be doing.
Bogsnorkler said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Dropbear said:How can they teach that when the teachers have no clue about it ???
Cant teachers learn new things to teach?
why should these be the school’s responsibility to teach? they sound more like what good parenting should be doing.
They already have responsibilities for teaching things so why not add understanding controlling emotions.
Its probably why some choose homeschooling.
I did not want to go to school, I could have performed better learning at home, I found the whole school thing distracting.
it’s UnAustralian to take responsibility for your own children and not have to blame teachers for your own failures in parenting
SCIENCE said:
it’s UnAustralian to take responsibility for your own children and not have to blame teachers for your own failures in parenting
this. though i suspect we aren’t the only country that thinks like that.
SCIENCE said:
it’s UnAustralian to take responsibility for your own children and not have to blame teachers for your own failures in parenting
If most teachers and most parents cannot teach it properly then something needs to be done at the curriculum level.
Students stay in school over a 15-17+ year period
and they come out of the system with no real emotional control
17 years without teaching them basics in emotional control
Not good enough.
This is why we have 600 police call-outs for domestic violence.
Bubblecar said:
I wonder what proportion of them are religious fundamentalists.
In this area a proportion of the Lutherans home school, using a Mennonite curriculum. Hmm….
Tau.Neutrino said:
SCIENCE said:
it’s UnAustralian to take responsibility for your own children and not have to blame teachers for your own failures in parenting
If most teachers and most parents cannot teach it properly then something needs to be done at the curriculum level.
Students stay in school over a 15-17+ year period
and they come out of the system with no real emotional control
17 years without teaching them basics in emotional control
Not good enough.
This is why we have 600 police call-outs for domestic violence.
No it isn’t. I mean, yes, improving teachers in schools, who i agree have much to improve, could go a little way to reducing the volume of domestic violence calls that are made. I doubt it would make most of the difference.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
Kids grow up into adults and don’t have very much emotional control, hence 600 police calls for domestic violence.
Maybe or those children don’t go to school or nurture from their dysfunctional families creates a learned behaviour
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
Kids grow up into adults and don’t have very much emotional control, hence 600 police calls for domestic violence.
lot of control in there
you a communist or something
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
Kids grow up into adults and don’t have very much emotional control, hence 600 police calls for domestic violence.
lot of control in there
you a communist or something
No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.
This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
Think how much better science could be without all that unwanted hindrance a few greedy people have created.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
That’s somewhat true I imagine, but parents should really teach their children to question authority and not accept the status quo as being right.
Has school ever taught intelligence its attempt to make you smart or at least educated so you can be a good member of society and do as you are told. Not sure if a teacher who taught students to question the norm would be allowed
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
Kids grow up into adults and don’t have very much emotional control, hence 600 police calls for domestic violence.
lot of control in there
you a communist or something
No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
oh self-control you mean, the emotional and psychological tools for.
you don’t seem completely sure you’re not a communist.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
Kids grow up into adults and don’t have very much emotional control, hence 600 police calls for domestic violence.
lot of control in there
you a communist or something
No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
The masses never revolt of their own accord, and they never revolt merely because they are oppressed. Indeed, so long as they are not permitted to have standards of comparison, they never even become aware that they are oppressed.
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
That’s somewhat true I imagine, but parents should really teach their children to question authority and not accept the status quo as being right.
Has school ever taught intelligence its attempt to make you smart or at least educated so you can be a good member of society and do as you are told. Not sure if a teacher who taught students to question the norm would be allowed
I think its good questioning the norm, parents need to balance that with what is being taught.
Teachers who teach questioning the norm would be dismissed I think so they have to be careful in that aspect.
Ian said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:lot of control in there
you a communist or something
No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
The masses never revolt of their own accord, and they never revolt merely because they are oppressed. Indeed, so long as they are not permitted to have standards of comparison, they never even become aware that they are oppressed.
Not which is why the repressive governments control the internet as they know if shows the population it doesn’t have to be this way.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Teachers who teach questioning the norm would be dismissed I think so they have to be careful in that aspect.
Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:lot of control in there
you a communist or something
No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
oh self-control you mean, the emotional and psychological tools for.
you don’t seem completely sure you’re not a communist.
Yes, self control
No pictures of Lenin on the walls here, a few posters, Star Wars, Pink Floyd’s dark side of the moon and some early astronomy drawings, no Lenin.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Teachers who teach questioning the norm would be dismissed I think so they have to be careful in that aspect.Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
Possibly reprimanded though
If say you taught students to not just be blindly patriotic and to question our governments, past and current actions and if they were something that was morally justified would that be allowed.
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
oh self-control you mean, the emotional and psychological tools for.
you don’t seem completely sure you’re not a communist.
Yes, self control
No pictures of Lenin on the walls here, a few posters, Star Wars, Pink Floyd’s dark side of the moon and some early astronomy drawings, no Lenin.
you’re not an overtly committed communist.
it’s alright, you can say you’re a communist here. We don’t mind at all.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
Also because unis have carte blanche to enrol as many teaching students as apply, regardless of the number of jobs out there.
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
oh self-control you mean, the emotional and psychological tools for.
you don’t seem completely sure you’re not a communist.
Yes, self control
No pictures of Lenin on the walls here, a few posters, Star Wars, Pink Floyd’s dark side of the moon and some early astronomy drawings, no Lenin.
Communism in practice replaced what they hated with something even worse and more in control of the population as they have a huge military to enforce it.
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Teachers who teach questioning the norm would be dismissed I think so they have to be careful in that aspect.Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
Possibly reprimanded though
If say you taught students to not just be blindly patriotic and to question our governments, past and current actions and if they were something that was morally justified would that be allowed.
Yes. I don’t see why it would not. In the 1970’s it was part of English, the part called critical thinking. Don’t know what it is called these days.
Kothos said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
Also because unis have carte blanche to enrol as many teaching students as apply, regardless of the number of jobs out there.
Yeah my son whose doing civil engineering sees this in action and how the quality of lecturers isn’t that good
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
oh self-control you mean, the emotional and psychological tools for.
you don’t seem completely sure you’re not a communist.
Yes, self control
No pictures of Lenin on the walls here, a few posters, Star Wars, Pink Floyd’s dark side of the moon and some early astronomy drawings, no Lenin.
I’ve got a few pictures of Lenin if you want one. Some of Pushkin too.
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Teachers who teach questioning the norm would be dismissed I think so they have to be careful in that aspect.Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
Possibly reprimanded though
If say you taught students to not just be blindly patriotic and to question our governments, past and current actions and if they were something that was morally justified would that be allowed.
Teachers should be reprimanded if they do not teach students to question the norm.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
Possibly reprimanded though
If say you taught students to not just be blindly patriotic and to question our governments, past and current actions and if they were something that was morally justified would that be allowed.Teachers should be reprimanded if they do not teach students to question the norm.
yea, dock their pay …
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
Possibly reprimanded though
If say you taught students to not just be blindly patriotic and to question our governments, past and current actions and if they were something that was morally justified would that be allowed.Teachers should be reprimanded if they do not teach students to question the norm.
normal is to visit that, not to make it a home, locus of ego.
Cymek said:
Kothos said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
Also because unis have carte blanche to enrol as many teaching students as apply, regardless of the number of jobs out there.
Yeah my son whose doing civil engineering sees this in action and how the quality of lecturers isn’t that good
I very much doubt that the current Australian civ-eng lecturers are worse than the English civ-eng lecturers I had 50 years ago. From those I know, I’d suggest that the opposite was true, but it’s a very limited sample of course, and probably a biased viewpoint.
poikilotherm said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:Possibly reprimanded though
If say you taught students to not just be blindly patriotic and to question our governments, past and current actions and if they were something that was morally justified would that be allowed.Teachers should be reprimanded if they do not teach students to question the norm.
yea, dock their pay …
Would that include questioning religion and how damaging it is
When I were lad we had Logic as a subject in the latter years of high school.
It distils out emotion, preconceptions, formative baggage etc from an argument.
The methodology is not unlike mathematics and can get quite complex.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Teachers who teach questioning the norm would be dismissed I think so they have to be careful in that aspect.Why do you think that?
Are there examples of teachers being sacked for teaching “questioning the norm”?
Goes looking
Sexual misconduct and inefficiency are the main reasons
Don’t we also send our children to school to get a break from them, 24/7 is too much
Cymek said:
poikilotherm said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Teachers should be reprimanded if they do not teach students to question the norm.
yea, dock their pay …
Would that include questioning religion and how damaging it is
Certainly they should question religion and question how damaging it is.
The same for non-religion.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
poikilotherm said:yea, dock their pay …
Would that include questioning religion and how damaging it is
Certainly they should question religion and question how damaging it is.
The same for non-religion.
I’m just not trusting that government wants people that are critical thinkers, examples from our various ministers show that burying ones head in the sand and carrying on as normal is what is wanted.
Peak Warming Man said:
When I were lad we had Logic as a subject in the latter years of high school.
It distils out emotion, preconceptions, formative baggage etc from an argument.
The methodology is not unlike mathematics and can get quite complex.
We had a weekly teams debating period where both sides of many subjects were debated.
This song is 50years old this year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:Would that include questioning religion and how damaging it is
Certainly they should question religion and question how damaging it is.
The same for non-religion.
I’m just not trusting that government wants people that are critical thinkers, examples from our various ministers show that burying ones head in the sand and carrying on as normal is what is wanted.
I don’t believe that “Government” has a uniform policy on these things.
I can well believe Dutton would be dead set against critical thinking.
I very much doubt that Penny Wong is.
Just to pick two at random :)
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Certainly they should question religion and question how damaging it is.
The same for non-religion.
I’m just not trusting that government wants people that are critical thinkers, examples from our various ministers show that burying ones head in the sand and carrying on as normal is what is wanted.
I don’t believe that “Government” has a uniform policy on these things.
I can well believe Dutton would be dead set against critical thinking.
I very much doubt that Penny Wong is.
Just to pick two at random :)
States do schooling.
AwesomeO said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:I’m just not trusting that government wants people that are critical thinkers, examples from our various ministers show that burying ones head in the sand and carrying on as normal is what is wanted.
I don’t believe that “Government” has a uniform policy on these things.
I can well believe Dutton would be dead set against critical thinking.
I very much doubt that Penny Wong is.
Just to pick two at random :)
States do schooling.
Pick two state politicians of your choice then.
Federal policies have a significant effect on how schooling is done anyway.
Tau.Neutrino said:
One of my brothers is planning on home schooling his child.
poor sod. Perhaps you know the lyrics of the Homeschooling song.
“Many a thing you know you’d like to tell her
Many a thing she ought to understand
But how do you make her stay and listen to all you say
How do you keep a wave upon the sand?
…
She’d out pester any pest, drive a hornet from its nest
She could throw a whirling dervish out of whirl
She is gentle! She is wild! She’s a riddle! She’s a child!
She’s a headache! She’s an angel! She’s a girl!”
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I don’t believe that “Government” has a uniform policy on these things.
I can well believe Dutton would be dead set against critical thinking.
I very much doubt that Penny Wong is.
Just to pick two at random :)
States do schooling.
Pick two state politicians of your choice then.
Federal policies have a significant effect on how schooling is done anyway.
I don’t have enough knowledge to point at any politicians stance on critical thinking, just pointing out that States deliver education, and from what I have learned in this forum, not just states but individual teachers are free to do their own thing.
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
AwesomeO said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:States do schooling.
Pick two state politicians of your choice then.
Federal policies have a significant effect on how schooling is done anyway.
I don’t have enough knowledge to point at any politicians stance on critical thinking, just pointing out that States deliver education, and from what I have learned in this forum, not just states but individual teachers are free to do their own thing.
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
Not exactly ‘free to do their own thing’, maybe with the delivery of stuff – there’s a curriculum that needs to be followed, outcomes to be met etc etc.
AwesomeO said:
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
So we are all agreed then.
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
So we are all agreed then.
You could be a government stooge
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
So we are all agreed then.
There’s that ‘we’ again…
runs away
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
So we are all agreed then.
Oui.
Witty Rejoinder said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
So we are all agreed then.
There’s that ‘we’ again…
runs away
sowee :)
The Rev Dodgson said:
This song is 50years old this year:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
No
mollwollfumble said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
AwesomeO said:
I also think it’s a conspiracy too far to think govt of any level or description is trying to dumb down schools to facilitate control of the population.
So we are all agreed then.
Oui.
LOL
:)
Ian said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
This song is 50years old this year:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
No
Are you saying it’s not 50 years old, or that you won’t leave those kids alone?
The Rev Dodgson said:
Ian said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
This song is 50years old this year:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
No
Are you saying it’s not 50 years old, or that you won’t leave those kids alone?
The former (mainly)
The Rev Dodgson said:
Ian said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
This song is 50years old this year:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
No
Are you saying it’s not 50 years old, or that you won’t leave those kids alone?
The primary school opposite plays that song for morning assembly. Why.
“We don’t need no education”, double negative, “we need education”.
“You’re just another brick in the wall”, encouraging kids to be just another brick in the wall.
Sometimes I think this song deserves a medal for services to post-modernism.
Ian said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Ian said:No
Are you saying it’s not 50 years old, or that you won’t leave those kids alone?
The former (mainly)
Make that 40 years then :)
I just automatically associate PF with late 60s.
mollwollfumble said:
“You’re just another brick in the wall”, encouraging kids to be just another brick in the wall.
Isn’t it saying that the teacher is just another brick in the wall?
transition said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
transition said:lot of control in there
you a communist or something
No not really.
Having reasonable control over ones behavior has nothing to do with communism.
oh self-control you mean, the emotional and psychological tools for.
you don’t seem completely sure you’re not a communist.
and the problem with that is ¿
why is it then that the absolute top of science students
are from communist countries ¿
2018 Lisbon Yang Tianhua China
2018 (various EU) Chen Qingyu China
2018 Tehran Nguyen Phuong Thao Vietnam
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
i used to believe that economic argument
now not so sure
new school teachers are paid more than new medical practitioners
SCIENCE said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Keep in mind the various people in government, rich circles do not want the masses to be intelligent.This is why we have the dumbing down of teachers and students problem.
I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
i used to believe that economic argument
now not so sure
new school teachers are paid more than new medical practitioners
How do they compare 20 years later?
The Rev Dodgson said:
mollwollfumble said:“You’re just another brick in the wall”, encouraging kids to be just another brick in the wall.
Isn’t it saying that the teacher is just another brick in the wall?
ore, if i could steel the metaphor, a cog in the capitalist machine
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
i used to believe that economic argument
now not so sure
new school teachers are paid more than new medical practitioners
How do they compare 20 years later?
But yeah, it’s not just the money.
There is also the vibe to be considered.
After The Wall it all went a bit pear shaped. Waters told Rick Wright that he was fired but, unusually for a rock band, Wright said OK but I’d like to play on the tour in support of the album first.
:)
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
i used to believe that economic argument
now not so sure
new school teachers are paid more than new medical practitioners
How do they compare 20 years later?
don’t know
it’s only been 5 years
and now australia is at the bottom of the oecd in education
however
there are shouts of trying to bring up the education course entry requirements
so maybe in 15
better
¿
Cymek said:
Don’t we also send our children to school to get a break from them, 24/7 is too much
Number one reason I won’t homeschool.
Anecdote alert:
I personally know three families who homeschool. All three homeschool because their kid/s are on the spectrum and regular school means bullying and a difficult learning environment.
One family, the child was sexually abused when she was a toddler and she has learning and social difficulties both due to this abuse, and genetics. She was bullied at school and was not learning properly. She is now homeschooled using distance education and she is excelling.
Another family has three kids. One kid is 100% homeschooled due to his being on the spectrum and he is disruptive at school. Another kid in the same family is homeschooled 2 days a week (same reasons) and the third kid is 100% regular school.
The third family have two kids and they are homeschooled because they have difficulty focusing for long periods of time. So they do school work for an hour or so, then play, then read, then schoolwork. It extends their learning until dinner time but they have frequent rest and play times.
In all three cases, homeschooling is working well for them. None of these families are religious.
From what I’ve seen on the evil media, these family friends of mine seem to fit the norm of why they choose to homeschool: kids are being bullied and/or don’t fit into a schooling system as we have always had.
These days, public schools get funding for each enrolled kid who is diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum (at least, they do in Qld), and this funding is supposed to go towards having an aide or sensory ‘quiet’ areas where the kid is not overwhelmed by regular classroom things.
We have been a bit concerned about the socialization skills of the kids home schooled around here. They really don’t see any diversity. Even though the families are often large, they mix almost exclusively within their own religious group. I don’t think this is a Good Thing. If we are to have an accepting society, there needs to be contact with Other.
Dropbear said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Schools are still not teaching basics like emotional intelligence.How to deal with jealousy.
How to deal with rejection.
Controlling sexual desires.
Controlling troll / bully behaviors.
How can they teach that when the teachers have no clue about it ???
Well they can do what should always have been done. Don’t pass our own bad shit down the line.
I homeschooled my children perhaps that why one joined a cult, one the circus and the other became a born again vegan
buffy said:
We have been a bit concerned about the socialization skills of the kids home schooled around here. They really don’t see any diversity. Even though the families are often large, they mix almost exclusively within their own religious group. I don’t think this is a Good Thing. If we are to have an accepting society, there needs to be contact with Other.
Of course you are correct.
There are two types if home schooling. I don’t know which is more prevalent.
There are the anti-establishment psychos who want to brain wash their kids into their own cult.
And then there are the pro-establishment regular people who see a deficit in the schooling system (sometimes because their own kid has a special need) and reckon they can do a better job.
The latter have a point. Schools are often under-resourced for kids with special needs. And traditional schools are also under-resourced to tackle changing traditions. There is a push for more “authentic” teaching for example, in the education sphere. Essentially using class lessons to simulate apprenticeships in every subject, even the heavily academic ones, in order to teach within a context of applied studies. That is, make the lessons directly relevant to life. This also takes a lot of resources though, which many schools don’t have, so they stick to dictating lessons and kids just write a lot of stuff down in books.
Homeschooling should be a part of a child’s life as well as actually going to a school that helps the child learn to live in the real world. This is both parental and public schooling.
Private schooling which is both home school and exclusive schooling, neither of which teach the child how to live in the real world.
>There are two types if home schooling. I don’t know which is more prevalent.
and, perhaps, the more important…
….kids that absolutely refuse to go to school, it causes them real horror.
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
i used to believe that economic argument
now not so sure
new school teachers are paid more than new medical practitioners
How do they compare 20 years later?
In NSW teacher pay tops out at ~$105,000 after 10 years, assuming the teacher has not been promoted or taken on extra duties. Starting salary is $67k at the moment I think.
Whereas, doctors start at like minimum wage as an intern, and then top out between about $150,000 and the sky’s the limit, I think?
roughbarked said:
Homeschooling should be a part of a child’s life as well as actually going to a school that helps the child learn to live in the real world. This is both parental and public schooling.Private schooling which is both home school and exclusive schooling, neither of which teach the child how to live in the real world.
I’m not sure what you mean there. I might need you to define those terms.
Kothos said:
roughbarked said:
Homeschooling should be a part of a child’s life as well as actually going to a school that helps the child learn to live in the real world. This is both parental and public schooling.Private schooling which is both home school and exclusive schooling, neither of which teach the child how to live in the real world.
I’m not sure what you mean there. I might need you to define those terms.
You can’t figure it out?
A parent who teaches their child to read and comprehend before going to school is ahead of the game and if they send their children to public schools and still continue to be a parent by assisting their children with what they are learning then this is a balanced approach.
Everything else is hooey.
transition said:
>There are two types if home schooling. I don’t know which is more prevalent.and, perhaps, the more important…
….kids that absolutely refuse to go to school, it causes them real horror.
Kothos said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:i used to believe that economic argument
now not so sure
new school teachers are paid more than new medical practitioners
How do they compare 20 years later?
In NSW teacher pay tops out at ~$105,000 after 10 years, assuming the teacher has not been promoted or taken on extra duties. Starting salary is $67k at the moment I think.
Whereas, doctors start at like minimum wage as an intern, and then top out between about $150,000 and the sky’s the limit, I think?
oh they mean individually compare 20 years later
we’ll take those numbers above as ballpark correct
the teacher gets out at least 3 years earlier, has 0 government debt for university and indeed living expenses covered by scholarship, and started saving with interest (which admittedly is close to 0 in the current environment)
the doctor gets out later, perhaps even more than 3 years due to postgraduate course structure, with large debts incurred, and delay in earning compounding badly… then pays through the nose for professional advancement (pay to win) and indemnity cover (pay to lose) and whatever else… then gets locked into on calls and long term patients and no holidays and so on and so forth
In the long term doctors definitely earn more, which is the whole point because otherwise no one would put up with the first 10 years of intense study and low pay.
However, I don’t think teachers get scholarships to live on campus… ? Who gets that?
Kothos said:
In the long term doctors definitely earn more, which is the whole point because otherwise no one would put up with the first 10 years of intense study and low pay.
I remain unconvinced that purely financial considerations apply.
Kothos said:
However, I don’t think teachers get scholarships to live on campus… ? Who gets that?
I mean while they are studying; i don’t think either teachers or doctors in general get scholarships while they are actually working.
I think in a developed country, children are entitled to be educated by people capable of fulfilling the duty. Anything short of that is neglect or abuse.
There’d be some homeschoolers who are in fact qualified to teach and that’s fine, as long as they periodically demonstrate to the State that they are following an appropriate curriculum and their children are centrally tested for progress periodically.
DV freeby list perennial, Judit Polgar, was homeschooled, and it turned out okay, but then her father was an educational psychologists. It would appear that not a lot of the people who want to homeschool their kids in Australia are educational psychologists.
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:
In the long term doctors definitely earn more, which is the whole point because otherwise no one would put up with the first 10 years of intense study and low pay.
I remain unconvinced that purely financial considerations apply.
And yet you brought up financial considerations, didn’t you?
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:
However, I don’t think teachers get scholarships to live on campus… ? Who gets that?
I mean while they are studying; i don’t think either teachers or doctors in general get scholarships while they are actually working.
Under few circumstances do any students get any sort of scholarship while studying. It’s very rare for any type of study at all.
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:
However, I don’t think teachers get scholarships to live on campus… ? Who gets that?
I mean while they are studying; i don’t think either teachers or doctors in general get scholarships while they are actually working.
Under few circumstances do any students get any sort of scholarship while studying. It’s very rare for any type of study at all.
Whilst I was studying engineering rather than teaching, I did receive a scholarship to live on campus and study.
dv said:
I think in a developed country, children are entitled to be educated by people capable of fulfilling the duty. Anything short of that is neglect or abuse.There’d be some homeschoolers who are in fact qualified to teach and that’s fine, as long as they periodically demonstrate to the State that they are following an appropriate curriculum and their children are centrally tested for progress periodically.
DV freeby list perennial, Judit Polgar, was homeschooled, and it turned out okay, but then her father was an educational psychologists. It would appear that not a lot of the people who want to homeschool their kids in Australia are educational psychologists.
One of the problems with the teaching profession isn’t just that teachers aren’t paid enough to attract the best and brightest – it’s the fact that universities can enrol limitless numbers of student teachers.
Sure, we could forcefully inflate teacher’s pay and that would alleviate the problem, but there’s a more natural way to do it.
Don’t let people with an ATAR of 40 enrol, raise the entrance mark to an acceptably minimum standard. Apply the Numeracy, Literacy and psychological tests before entry to a degree, as part of the application process.
This will reduce the number of teachers graduating, and create higher levels of competition to attract teachers to jobs, naturally raising pay.
Right now, an entrant with an 40 ATAR, who gets all passes in their degree, is “qualified” to teach. They’re unlikely to manage to get a full time job for up to a decade, and when they do, do we really want them to teach?
The NSW DET just changed their rules to only ever offer jobs to grads with Credit averages, and to exclude students doing degrees outside their state of high school completion (apparently a way of circumventing some entry requirements). These are post-hoc bandaid measures that shouldn’t be necessary, and happen after poorly qualified grads have already been fleeced of about $20,000.
It’s dumb, and the system being what it is, I can understand some people wanting to home school.
btm said:
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:I mean while they are studying; i don’t think either teachers or doctors in general get scholarships while they are actually working.
Under few circumstances do any students get any sort of scholarship while studying. It’s very rare for any type of study at all.
Whilst I was studying engineering rather than teaching, I did receive a scholarship to live on campus and study.
That’s great, but these don’t happen very often. Unless we count subsidised on-campus living as a scholarship, but it’s not really.
Maybe i’m an idiot as a result of being taught by stupid teachers, and maybe it was all a lie hence the takedown of the site which i must now link to cached version of, but for example
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HqFVhExZiSgJ:https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/getpaidtostudy/teacher-education-scholarships+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
suggests that there are plenty of scholarships out there, like
teach.nsw.edu.au said:
Up to 220 Teacher Education Scholarships are available to future teachers of mathematics, science (with physics), selected Technological and Applied Studies (TAS) subjects or special education (K-12).
Now it’s not a full time management consultant salary, but it’s not “very rare”.
SCIENCE said:
Maybe i’m an idiot as a result of being taught by stupid teachers
Maybe we’ll never know the reason
SCIENCE said:
Maybe i’m an idiot as a result of being taught by stupid teachers, and maybe it was all a lie hence the takedown of the site which i must now link to cached version of, but for examplehttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HqFVhExZiSgJ:https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/getpaidtostudy/teacher-education-scholarships+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
suggests that there are plenty of scholarships out there, like
teach.nsw.edu.au said:
Up to 220 Teacher Education Scholarships are available to future teachers of mathematics, science (with physics), selected Technological and Applied Studies (TAS) subjects or special education (K-12).
Now it’s not a full time management consultant salary, but it’s not “very rare”.
Look, I don’t mean to be insulting, but I’m going to go with, “maybe you’re an idiot”. Please contrast 220 scholarships with the number of teacher grads in NSW each year. If you’re not an idiot, you might be surprised. If you are an idiot, then please keep your current stance.
Cymek said:
Kothos said:
The Rev Dodgson said:I doubt that is true, apart from an insignificant minority maybe.
We have a dumbing down of teachers problem because teachers are not paid enough.
We don’t have a dumbing down of students problem.
Also because unis have carte blanche to enrol as many teaching students as apply, regardless of the number of jobs out there.
Yeah my son whose doing civil engineering sees this in action and how the quality of lecturers isn’t that good
It’s definitely a dumbing down generally across the board. Except where the the heavily unionised influence of professional bodies is strong, such as with doctors
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:
Maybe i’m an idiot as a result of being taught by stupid teachers, and maybe it was all a lie hence the takedown of the site which i must now link to cached version of, but for examplehttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HqFVhExZiSgJ:https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/getpaidtostudy/teacher-education-scholarships+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
suggests that there are plenty of scholarships out there, like
teach.nsw.edu.au said:
Up to 220 Teacher Education Scholarships are available to future teachers of mathematics, science (with physics), selected Technological and Applied Studies (TAS) subjects or special education (K-12).
Now it’s not a full time management consultant salary, but it’s not “very rare”.
Look, I don’t mean to be insulting, but I’m going to go with, “maybe you’re an idiot”. Please contrast 220 scholarships with the number of teacher grads in NSW each year. If you’re not an idiot, you might be surprised. If you are an idiot, then please keep your current stance.
good point, i may well need to change my current stance
rather than being skeptical that it is “very rare”, i may need to say outright that it is “common”
220 is more than 5% which not only is statistically significant, it is between 1% and 10%
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:
Maybe i’m an idiot as a result of being taught by stupid teachers, and maybe it was all a lie hence the takedown of the site which i must now link to cached version of, but for examplehttps://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HqFVhExZiSgJ:https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/getpaidtostudy/teacher-education-scholarships+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
suggests that there are plenty of scholarships out there, like
Now it’s not a full time management consultant salary, but it’s not “very rare”.
Look, I don’t mean to be insulting, but I’m going to go with, “maybe you’re an idiot”. Please contrast 220 scholarships with the number of teacher grads in NSW each year. If you’re not an idiot, you might be surprised. If you are an idiot, then please keep your current stance.
good point, i may well need to change my current stance
rather than being skeptical that it is “very rare”, i may need to say outright that it is “common”
220 is more than 5% which not only is statistically significant, it is between 1% and 10%
Wow. So you are, in fact, an idiot. That’s kind of interesting.
It’s actually 3% and that’s based on 2015 figures:
https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/96784/2015-Workforce-Suppy-and-Demand-Aug-2015.pdf
Also, that’s not how statistical significance works :-/
So… not common at all.
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:Look, I don’t mean to be insulting, but I’m going to go with, “maybe you’re an idiot”. Please contrast 220 scholarships with the number of teacher grads in NSW each year. If you’re not an idiot, you might be surprised. If you are an idiot, then please keep your current stance.
good point, i may well need to change my current stance
rather than being skeptical that it is “very rare”, i may need to say outright that it is “common”
220 is more than 5% which not only is statistically significant, it is between 1% and 10%
Wow. So you are, in fact, an idiot. That’s kind of interesting.
It’s actually 3% and that’s based on 2015 figures:
https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/96784/2015-Workforce-Suppy-and-Demand-Aug-2015.pdf
Also, that’s not how statistical significance works :-/
So… not common at all.
thanks, you’re right again, 22% is not common at all, more correct to call it very common
everyone knows that one in twenty is the definition of statistically significant
on a conservative estimate based on the figures, the scholarships mentioned constitute 22%
i did need that link for more exact numbers
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:good point, i may well need to change my current stance
rather than being skeptical that it is “very rare”, i may need to say outright that it is “common”
220 is more than 5% which not only is statistically significant, it is between 1% and 10%
Wow. So you are, in fact, an idiot. That’s kind of interesting.
It’s actually 3% and that’s based on 2015 figures:
https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/96784/2015-Workforce-Suppy-and-Demand-Aug-2015.pdf
Also, that’s not how statistical significance works :-/
So… not common at all.
thanks, you’re right again, 22% is not common at all, more correct to call it very common
everyone knows that one in twenty is the definition of statistically significant
on a conservative estimate based on the figures, the scholarships mentioned constitute 22%
i did need that link for more exact numbers
If it is any consolation I find you both very common
never mind that i’m just looking for a good teacher
SCIENCE said:
never mind that i’m just looking for a good teacher
How did you get this far then?
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
never mind that i’m just looking for a good teacher
How did you get this far then?
He’s a Tsiolkovskian autodidact
dv said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
never mind that i’m just looking for a good teacher
How did you get this far then?
He’s a Tsiolkovskian autodidact
Somewhat unrelatedly
any of you know what this place is likely to be like
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rush-to-enrol-in-lindfield-learning-revolution-20180706-p4zq0f.html
?
dv said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
never mind that i’m just looking for a good teacher
How did you get this far then?
He’s a Tsiolkovskian autodidact
:)
SCIENCE said:
dv said:
roughbarked said:How did you get this far then?
He’s a Tsiolkovskian autodidact
Somewhat unrelatedly
any of you know what this place is likely to be like
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rush-to-enrol-in-lindfield-learning-revolution-20180706-p4zq0f.html
?
I did three years at a primary school that toyed with some of those ideas. No classes or organised learning, just climbing trees, lighting fires, swimming in dams, and going on excursions. There’s a range of opinions about it, and the school still exists, but it was a fucking debacle, IMO. I developed holes in my knowledge that set me behind for the rest of my schooling, despite repeating a year and a year of remedial work.
The most serious issues occur when the kids enter or leave the school, because their education can be incompatible (or impossible to measure) with the rest of the world.
SCIENCE said:
Kothos said:
SCIENCE said:good point, i may well need to change my current stance
rather than being skeptical that it is “very rare”, i may need to say outright that it is “common”
220 is more than 5% which not only is statistically significant, it is between 1% and 10%
Wow. So you are, in fact, an idiot. That’s kind of interesting.
It’s actually 3% and that’s based on 2015 figures:
https://www.teach.nsw.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/96784/2015-Workforce-Suppy-and-Demand-Aug-2015.pdf
Also, that’s not how statistical significance works :-/
So… not common at all.
thanks, you’re right again, 22% is not common at all, more correct to call it very common
everyone knows that one in twenty is the definition of statistically significant
on a conservative estimate based on the figures, the scholarships mentioned constitute 22%
i did need that link for more exact numbers
Huh? I didn’t realise you also couldn’t maths. Okay then.