Date: 9/02/2019 22:26:31
From: party_pants
ID: 1344058
Subject: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

Alright Trendsetters, I need some help here.

I want to make some wood lathe chisels, by hand, in intricate shapes for the final finish of chess pieces. The rough shaping of the chess pieces will be done with normal wood lathe chisels, but I want these chisels to be both template and a final finish tool to get the pieces into a uniform final shape.

I have purchased a length of mild steel flat bar. It should be easy to work with drill and files into the desired shapes.

My questions are:

Thanks in advance. I will do a bit of trial and error anyway, but any hints and suggestions would be helpful as a head-start.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:31:31
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344059
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


Alright Trendsetters, I need some help here.

I want to make some wood lathe chisels, by hand, in intricate shapes for the final finish of chess pieces. The rough shaping of the chess pieces will be done with normal wood lathe chisels, but I want these chisels to be both template and a final finish tool to get the pieces into a uniform final shape.

I have purchased a length of mild steel flat bar. It should be easy to work with drill and files into the desired shapes.

My questions are:

  • being only mild steel, I guess they will work better if I can harden the tip somehow so it holds a cutting edge . I was thinking about heating with a blow torch till the edge is red hot and then quenching. Is this a good idea?
  • how hot do I need to heat it? Will a glowing red hot tip be sufficient, or do I need to go for hotter?
  • will a small hand-held Butane gas torch from Bunnings be enough to get it hot enough, or will I need to get something bigger? Something like this:

Thanks in advance. I will do a bit of trial and error anyway, but any hints and suggestions would be helpful as a head-start.

first heat it to red hot, quench in oil. polish it up so it is fairly shiny. heat it again to straw colour. let cool slowly. you want it shiny so you can see the colour.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:34:21
From: party_pants
ID: 1344060
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


party_pants said:

Alright Trendsetters, I need some help here.

I want to make some wood lathe chisels, by hand, in intricate shapes for the final finish of chess pieces. The rough shaping of the chess pieces will be done with normal wood lathe chisels, but I want these chisels to be both template and a final finish tool to get the pieces into a uniform final shape.

I have purchased a length of mild steel flat bar. It should be easy to work with drill and files into the desired shapes.

My questions are:

  • being only mild steel, I guess they will work better if I can harden the tip somehow so it holds a cutting edge . I was thinking about heating with a blow torch till the edge is red hot and then quenching. Is this a good idea?
  • how hot do I need to heat it? Will a glowing red hot tip be sufficient, or do I need to go for hotter?
  • will a small hand-held Butane gas torch from Bunnings be enough to get it hot enough, or will I need to get something bigger? Something like this:

Thanks in advance. I will do a bit of trial and error anyway, but any hints and suggestions would be helpful as a head-start.

first heat it to red hot, quench in oil. polish it up so it is fairly shiny. heat it again to straw colour. let cool slowly. you want it shiny so you can see the colour.

Ok. Is the straw colour second heating hotter or cooler than the first time?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:35:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1344062
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

also, won’t it set the oil alight?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:40:07
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344064
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

Alright Trendsetters, I need some help here.

I want to make some wood lathe chisels, by hand, in intricate shapes for the final finish of chess pieces. The rough shaping of the chess pieces will be done with normal wood lathe chisels, but I want these chisels to be both template and a final finish tool to get the pieces into a uniform final shape.

I have purchased a length of mild steel flat bar. It should be easy to work with drill and files into the desired shapes.

My questions are:

  • being only mild steel, I guess they will work better if I can harden the tip somehow so it holds a cutting edge . I was thinking about heating with a blow torch till the edge is red hot and then quenching. Is this a good idea?
  • how hot do I need to heat it? Will a glowing red hot tip be sufficient, or do I need to go for hotter?
  • will a small hand-held Butane gas torch from Bunnings be enough to get it hot enough, or will I need to get something bigger? Something like this:

Thanks in advance. I will do a bit of trial and error anyway, but any hints and suggestions would be helpful as a head-start.

first heat it to red hot, quench in oil. polish it up so it is fairly shiny. heat it again to straw colour. let cool slowly. you want it shiny so you can see the colour.

Ok. Is the straw colour second heating hotter or cooler than the first time?

cooler. quite a lot.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:41:54
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344065
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


also, won’t it set the oil alight?

yeah a bit but it will cool quickly and the oil will then lack the heat to keep burning. always put a lid on it to stop it if necessary but you have enough oil to dip the whole tool, in so quite a bit.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:44:21
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344066
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

the first heat hardens the steel. the second heat makes the steel lose some hardness, you can control this by what colour you heat it to, but makes it tougher and less brittle.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:45:06
From: party_pants
ID: 1344067
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

OK thanks. This is sort of what I remember from high school metal work, but that was 25 years ago now.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:45:37
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344068
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


OK thanks. This is sort of what I remember from high school metal work, but that was 25 years ago now.

Me too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)#Introduction

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:48:50
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344069
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

i still have a scriber and centre punch i made back in 1970.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:51:25
From: party_pants
ID: 1344070
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


i still have a scriber and centre punch i made back in 1970.

I made a centre punch in about 1987. My Dad hardened it by heating and quenching. Not sure if he still has it, one of those little items I did not take with me when I moved out.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 22:54:50
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1344072
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ben says..

Mild steel won’t harden well if at all.
The carbon content is too low.

High carbon steel (1040 or better) is still easy enough to work with before it’s harden.

Tempering is as important as hardening.

and then adds this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHKPlBLsOY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR38DiOmchxqH1ZjYYh4oMymVphA0njKooszH1BYDVqEg2eFMLFfoUq_hQg

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:00:38
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344074
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

sarahs mum said:


ben says..

Mild steel won’t harden well if at all.
The carbon content is too low.

High carbon steel (1040 or better) is still easy enough to work with before it’s harden.

Tempering is as important as hardening.

and then adds this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHKPlBLsOY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR38DiOmchxqH1ZjYYh4oMymVphA0njKooszH1BYDVqEg2eFMLFfoUq_hQg

most mild steels that are generic these days have enough carbon in them to harden enough for what p_p wants. unless you go to a proper steel supplier and ask for specific steels.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:21:32
From: party_pants
ID: 1344075
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

sarahs mum said:


ben says..

Mild steel won’t harden well if at all.
The carbon content is too low.

High carbon steel (1040 or better) is still easy enough to work with before it’s harden.

Tempering is as important as hardening.

and then adds this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHKPlBLsOY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR38DiOmchxqH1ZjYYh4oMymVphA0njKooszH1BYDVqEg2eFMLFfoUq_hQg

OK, thanks to Ben.

Since I’ve already got the mild steel I will go with that as plan A. I am hoping to get the wood peice to within about 1 or 2 mm of the final shape before using this piece just to get the final shape, high speed on the lathe with gentle cutting pressure on the piece.

I might reserve 1040 steel as Plan B if the steel I bought today does not work.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:26:01
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1344076
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


sarahs mum said:

ben says..

Mild steel won’t harden well if at all.
The carbon content is too low.

High carbon steel (1040 or better) is still easy enough to work with before it’s harden.

Tempering is as important as hardening.

and then adds this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHKPlBLsOY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR38DiOmchxqH1ZjYYh4oMymVphA0njKooszH1BYDVqEg2eFMLFfoUq_hQg

OK, thanks to Ben.

Since I’ve already got the mild steel I will go with that as plan A. I am hoping to get the wood peice to within about 1 or 2 mm of the final shape before using this piece just to get the final shape, high speed on the lathe with gentle cutting pressure on the piece.

I might reserve 1040 steel as Plan B if the steel I bought today does not work.

Ben has been cleaning up steel around the farm. I wish he would take more. The only thing I have stopped him from taking so far is a mud brick mold. I figure it is still useful in it’s present form to someone.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:28:32
From: party_pants
ID: 1344077
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

sarahs mum said:


party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

ben says..

Mild steel won’t harden well if at all.
The carbon content is too low.

High carbon steel (1040 or better) is still easy enough to work with before it’s harden.

Tempering is as important as hardening.

and then adds this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBHKPlBLsOY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR38DiOmchxqH1ZjYYh4oMymVphA0njKooszH1BYDVqEg2eFMLFfoUq_hQg

OK, thanks to Ben.

Since I’ve already got the mild steel I will go with that as plan A. I am hoping to get the wood peice to within about 1 or 2 mm of the final shape before using this piece just to get the final shape, high speed on the lathe with gentle cutting pressure on the piece.

I might reserve 1040 steel as Plan B if the steel I bought today does not work.

Ben has been cleaning up steel around the farm. I wish he would take more. The only thing I have stopped him from taking so far is a mud brick mold. I figure it is still useful in it’s present form to someone.

I saw he posted on FB a little while back that he has a new forge :)
I hope he is having fun with it.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:32:45
From: Rule 303
ID: 1344078
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

sarahs mum said:


Ben has been cleaning up steel around the farm. I wish he would take more. The only thing I have stopped him from taking so far is a mud brick mold. I figure it is still useful in it’s present form to someone.

A Hippy, I should think.

Ideally a hippy from bloody Eltham.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:32:49
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344079
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

if you want a better steel go to a wrecker and get a leaf spring.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:33:57
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344080
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

also if you want to know what carbon content a steel has put it to a grinder and see the colour of the sparks.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:35:16
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344081
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


also if you want to know what carbon content a steel has put it to a grinder and see the colour of the sparks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWCh6fdXdw

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:37:18
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1344082
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

Rule 303 said:


sarahs mum said:

Ben has been cleaning up steel around the farm. I wish he would take more. The only thing I have stopped him from taking so far is a mud brick mold. I figure it is still useful in it’s present form to someone.

A Hippy, I should think.

Ideally a hippy from bloody Eltham.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:41:59
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1344083
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

also if you want to know what carbon content a steel has put it to a grinder and see the colour of the sparks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWCh6fdXdw

better one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=parpu3fPF2Q

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:51:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344085
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

also if you want to know what carbon content a steel has put it to a grinder and see the colour of the sparks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWCh6fdXdw

better one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=parpu3fPF2Q

It is all so much fun.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:55:34
From: Rule 303
ID: 1344086
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWCh6fdXdw

better one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=parpu3fPF2Q

It is all so much fun.

Paging Alan™ to the Holiday forum…

Reply Quote

Date: 9/02/2019 23:55:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344087
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWCh6fdXdw

better one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=parpu3fPF2Q

It is all so much fun.

I gave BOC their cylinders back. I got sick of them sending me bills for cylinders in advance of use.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 01:50:42
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1344112
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


ChrispenEvan said:

i still have a scriber and centre punch i made back in 1970.

I made a centre punch in about 1987. My Dad hardened it by heating and quenching. Not sure if he still has it, one of those little items I did not take with me when I moved out.

The old place is probably now so potholed you wouldn’t recognise it.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 01:54:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344113
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

PermeateFree said:


party_pants said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i still have a scriber and centre punch i made back in 1970.

I made a centre punch in about 1987. My Dad hardened it by heating and quenching. Not sure if he still has it, one of those little items I did not take with me when I moved out.

The old place is probably now so potholed you wouldn’t recognise it.

By old place you may mean where you hit the punch with the hammer?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 01:59:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344114
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

I made a centre punch in about 1987. My Dad hardened it by heating and quenching. Not sure if he still has it, one of those little items I did not take with me when I moved out.

The old place is probably now so potholed you wouldn’t recognise it.

By old place you may mean where you hit the punch with the hammer?

I made this hammer in 1973 using a jewellers saw and a file. I did start with a brass tap handle but it was round when I started. The wear you can see was done over a period of two years.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 02:07:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344115
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

The old place is probably now so potholed you wouldn’t recognise it.

By old place you may mean where you hit the punch with the hammer?

I made this hammer in 1973 using a jewellers saw and a file. I did start with a brass tap handle but it was round when I started. The wear you can see was done over a period of two years.


My comment eight years ago:

I’m a tool maker too. I made this one more than forty years ago. By sitting on the back porch and using only my hands and some hand tools; a coarse and fine file, both for the finishing. A jewellers fret saw to cut excess metal away to make the filing easier. all done by using my knee as a workbench.
Like any toolmaker, particularly one starved of high tech machinery, one would choose target material that most closely resembles the finished product.. saves work ergs.
This is a brass tap handle converted to watchmakers brass hammer by an apprentice, me. Just a tap handle, a stick, a couple of files and the creative use of a jewellers saw. Yep I’ve abused it lots of times since but as an example of tool material selection, craftmanship and wear usage.. it fits.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 02:15:44
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344116
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

By old place you may mean where you hit the punch with the hammer?

I made this hammer in 1973 using a jewellers saw and a file. I did start with a brass tap handle but it was round when I started. The wear you can see was done over a period of two years.


My comment eight years ago:

I’m a tool maker too. I made this one more than forty years ago. By sitting on the back porch and using only my hands and some hand tools; a coarse and fine file, both for the finishing. A jewellers fret saw to cut excess metal away to make the filing easier. all done by using my knee as a workbench.
Like any toolmaker, particularly one starved of high tech machinery, one would choose target material that most closely resembles the finished product.. saves work ergs.
This is a brass tap handle converted to watchmakers brass hammer by an apprentice, me. Just a tap handle, a stick, a couple of files and the creative use of a jewellers saw. Yep I’ve abused it lots of times since but as an example of tool material selection, craftmanship and wear usage.. it fits.

so I lied then but it is more than forty years ago now.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 02:33:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344117
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

Not bragging. Stainless steel edges.
Warwick’s first comment when I was living with him was, “that’s the sharpest edge I’ve ever seen on this knife. ,may would spend ages trying but could never get close to this. My comment would be that if you were listening and able to hear the snicks, it took me less than five seconds.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 02:40:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344119
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


Not bragging. Stainless steel edges.
Warwick’s first comment when I was living with him was, “that’s the sharpest edge I’ve ever seen on this knife. ,may would spend ages trying but could never get close to this. My comment would be that if you were listening and able to hear the snicks, it took me less than five seconds.

With a mild steel knife edge you may use a steel and you may also try several sharpening tools on a stainless steel edge but none surpasses the back of another stainless steel blade for honing that sharp edge back into focus. Remember this for you will never hear better advice for the home kitchen person but mind your fingers because this makes a stainless blade seriously sharp.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 02:57:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344120
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

You may not think so but I really hate the fact that whole side panel is posts by me.

Must be that everyone is having fun elsewhere or enjoying sleep.
As for the cutting edge. I love the fact that Warwick still doesn’t get how I manage things he doesn’t comprehend. It’s a bit like how it is in here. He is a physicist yet he still cannot fully comprehed .. me.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 02:59:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 1344121
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


You may not think so but I really hate the fact that whole side panel is posts by me.

Must be that everyone is having fun elsewhere or enjoying sleep.
As for the cutting edge. I love the fact that Warwick still doesn’t get how I manage things he doesn’t comprehend. It’s a bit like how it is in here. He is a physicist yet he still cannot fully comprehend .. me.

Being more than that, he is a farmer who spent half his life learning how to run the farm his father cut from the bush.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2019 11:45:03
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1344179
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

No worries.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/02/2019 19:07:03
From: Lary
ID: 1348157
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

How did this go?? Sarah’s Mum asked me to contribute. I sent her some brief advice, but was pretty busy with uni and work and forgot to check in.

I was thinking about this some more. Depending on the hardness of the wood/material you are working on, mild steel might be fine. It’s certainly cheaper and easier to work with.
If you find it isn’t working well enough, old files work a treat. I’m inheriting a set of hand made chisels, forged from old files. They were made in the 50’s I think.

You can harden mild steel through a variety of methods, which I think are beyond the scope of this discussion. Case hardening is the main method that comes to mind, but it’s seems too complex for the end result.

The caveat here is that I’m no expert. I research enough to do my own projects.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:15:55
From: party_pants
ID: 1354853
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:38:20
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1354854
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

just need a larger flame. also the vice and multigrips can act as a heat sink and take heat away from the metal.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:39:53
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1354856
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

I am certainly no expert on this, but Ion Idriess managed to obtain this temperature (or higher, he was smelting iron from iron ore) with nothing more than a candle and a “blowpipe”, though he found it easier with a pro0ane flame and a blowpipe. Depends on the size of thebpiece of course. His blowpipe was literally a small pipe that he blew air through with his mouth.

A blacksmith uses a bellows plus burning coal. Bellows can be made from wood and leather with a flap of leather to stop reverse flow.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:47:53
From: roughbarked
ID: 1354857
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

mollwollfumble said:


party_pants said:

Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

I am certainly no expert on this, but Ion Idriess managed to obtain this temperature (or higher, he was smelting iron from iron ore) with nothing more than a candle and a “blowpipe”, though he found it easier with a pro0ane flame and a blowpipe. Depends on the size of thebpiece of course. His blowpipe was literally a small pipe that he blew air through with his mouth.

A blacksmith uses a bellows plus burning coal. Bellows can be made from wood and leather with a flap of leather to stop reverse flow.

Yes a bellows provides more air. I reversed vacuum cleaner can do the same thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:48:58
From: party_pants
ID: 1354858
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


party_pants said:

Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

just need a larger flame. also the vice and multigrips can act as a heat sink and take heat away from the metal.

I was just thinking that. I tried clamping the piece between the wooden bench with a wooden block on top. I got bits of it glowing red but not the whole piece, as soon as I moved the butane torch slightly to a new spot the other one cooled down again.

Left a good scorch mark on the bench too.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:50:52
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1354859
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

just need a larger flame. also the vice and multigrips can act as a heat sink and take heat away from the metal.

I was just thinking that. I tried clamping the piece between the wooden bench with a wooden block on top. I got bits of it glowing red but not the whole piece, as soon as I moved the butane torch slightly to a new spot the other one cooled down again.

Left a good scorch mark on the bench too.

try gas stove top with added butane torch.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 16:53:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1354860
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

ChrispenEvan said:


party_pants said:

ChrispenEvan said:

just need a larger flame. also the vice and multigrips can act as a heat sink and take heat away from the metal.

I was just thinking that. I tried clamping the piece between the wooden bench with a wooden block on top. I got bits of it glowing red but not the whole piece, as soon as I moved the butane torch slightly to a new spot the other one cooled down again.

Left a good scorch mark on the bench too.

try gas stove top with added butane torch.

And up your house insurance.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 17:02:55
From: sibeen
ID: 1354862
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

mollwollfumble said:


party_pants said:

Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

I am certainly no expert on this, but Ion Idriess managed to obtain this temperature (or higher, he was smelting iron from iron ore) with nothing more than a candle and a “blowpipe”, though he found it easier with a pro0ane flame and a blowpipe. Depends on the size of thebpiece of course. His blowpipe was literally a small pipe that he blew air through with his mouth.

A blacksmith uses a bellows plus burning coal. Bellows can be made from wood and leather with a flap of leather to stop reverse flow.

Pfft, I could do it with a felt tip pen, a stick of chewy gum and a fantales wrapper.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 17:05:25
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1354863
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

roughbarked said:


mollwollfumble said:

party_pants said:

Having a bit of trouble reaching red hot temperatures. I have tried: hand-held butane torch from Bunnings (like the picture above), gas BBQ with burner lit and hotplate removed, and kitchen gas stove. For the first I held the bit in the vice, for the second I held it to the flame with a pair of multigripss. I have tried both right in the flame and just outside the edge of the flame and every place in between. It gets hot but never to the point of glowing – I give up after about 15 minutes.

Am I going to need a forge or some kind of bespoke heating box?

I am certainly no expert on this, but Ion Idriess managed to obtain this temperature (or higher, he was smelting iron from iron ore) with nothing more than a candle and a “blowpipe”, though he found it easier with a pro0ane flame and a blowpipe. Depends on the size of thebpiece of course. His blowpipe was literally a small pipe that he blew air through with his mouth.

A blacksmith uses a bellows plus burning coal. Bellows can be made from wood and leather with a flap of leather to stop reverse flow.

Yes a bellows provides more air. I reversed vacuum cleaner can do the same thing.

Here are some blowpipe images.

In olden days, the bellows was attached to a foot by thongs. Not shown below.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 18:22:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1354891
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

As Lary mentioned, old files make great tools for other purposes. I have a set of scrapers (for accurately scraping metal) made by my grandfather in the 1930s from old files. Just grind the file to the shape you want (but not the tang which is soft).

ChrispenEven suggested spring steel. This is also good for toolmaking. Grind it to shape. No hardening necessary.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 18:54:38
From: party_pants
ID: 1354903
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

Not quite a prototype, more of a proof of concept…. needs some work to refine it.

I’ll need to bevel the side walls in a bit, where they rubbed on a flat surface they have left little burn marks. It did cut a little bit, just for the final shaping, the rough shaping was done with other chisels.

The little knob bit at the top of the pawn I did by hand.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 18:58:34
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1354905
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


Not quite a prototype, more of a proof of concept…. needs some work to refine it.

I’ll need to bevel the side walls in a bit, where they rubbed on a flat surface they have left little burn marks. It did cut a little bit, just for the final shaping, the rough shaping was done with other chisels.

The little knob bit at the top of the pawn I did by hand.

Excellent P_P that will sandpaper up pretty well without refining the tool.
THF are you going to do the Knight?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 19:02:02
From: party_pants
ID: 1354906
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

Peak Warming Man said:


THF are you going to do the Knight?

That’s the hard one isn’t it. Probably just lathe the base and cut and carve the rest by hand. Possibly even whittle it.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/03/2019 19:03:57
From: Michael V
ID: 1354908
Subject: re: Mild Steel: Cutting Edge

party_pants said:


Not quite a prototype, more of a proof of concept…. needs some work to refine it.

I’ll need to bevel the side walls in a bit, where they rubbed on a flat surface they have left little burn marks. It did cut a little bit, just for the final shaping, the rough shaping was done with other chisels.

The little knob bit at the top of the pawn I did by hand.

Nice work.

Reply Quote