Evidence of the devastating impacts of anthropogenic climate change are stacking up, and it is becoming horrifyingly real. There can be no doubt that the climate crisis has arrived. Yet another “shocking new study” led The Guardian and various other news media this week. One-third of Himalayan ice cap, they report, is doomed.

Meanwhile in Australia, record summer temperatures have wrought unprecedented devastation of biblical proportions – mass deaths of horses, bats and fish are reported across the country, while the island state of Tasmania burns. In some places this version of summer is a terrifying new normal. The climate disaster future is increasingly becoming the present – and, as the evidence piles up, it is tempting to ask questions about its likely public reception. Numerous psychological perspectives suggest that if we have already invested energy in denying the reality of a situation we experience as profoundly troubling, the closer it gets, the more effort we put into denying it. While originally considered as a psychological response, denial and other defence mechanisms we engage in to keep this reality at bay and maintain some sense of “normality” can also be thought of as interpersonal, social and cultural. Because our relationships, groups and wider cultures are where we find support in not thinking, talking and feeling about that crisis. There are countless strategies for maintaining this state of knowing and not-knowing – we are very inventive … READ MORE HERE

https://theconversation.com/the-climate-crisis-has-arrived-so-stop-feeling-guilty-and-start-imagining-your-future-111139

From: sarahs mum
ID: 1344999
Subject: re: February Chat 2019.

Cymek said:

sarahs mum said: Measles outbreak in Philippines kills 70, with vaccine fearmongering blamed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/measles-outbreak-in-philippines-kills-70-with-vaccine-fear-mongering-blamed Did you read the news story about how anti vaxxers got their children vaccinated after an outbreak in the USA, obviously when the threat is real they change their mind.

Better than those posts I sometimes see lifted from anti-vax groups where the kid now has complications (or has died) from lack of vaccinations and the mother posts so that someone can confirm they have done the right thing and are not responsible.

Maybe its just like religion or pseudoscience beliefs no evidence to contrary makes you change your mind, perhaps your brain is wired to not accept the reality

Because our relationships, groups and wider cultures are where we find support in not thinking, talking and feeling about that crisis. There are countless strategies for maintaining this state of knowing and not-knowing – we are very inventive … READ MORE HERE

Interesting I place little value in the above and are skeptical if not an outright disbeliever in anything you can’t back up with evidence.
Perhaps anyone whose has beliefs that are based on faith are climate change deniers.

Cymek said:

Because our relationships, groups and wider cultures are where we find support in not thinking, talking and feeling about that crisis. There are countless strategies for maintaining this state of knowing and not-knowing – we are very inventive … READ MORE HERE

Interesting I place little value in the above and are skeptical if not an outright disbeliever in anything you can’t back up with evidence.
Perhaps anyone whose has beliefs that are based on faith are climate change deniers.

I think a lot of it is self-denial, when you are doing something you inwardly know is wrong, but you will make up every excuse as to why it is not wrong and so you can continue. Then of course there are the people who don’t like being told they are wrong and will continue to do it, just to prove a point.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Because our relationships, groups and wider cultures are where we find support in not thinking, talking and feeling about that crisis. There are countless strategies for maintaining this state of knowing and not-knowing – we are very inventive … READ MORE HERE

Interesting I place little value in the above and are skeptical if not an outright disbeliever in anything you can’t back up with evidence.
Perhaps anyone whose has beliefs that are based on faith are climate change deniers.

I think a lot of it is self-denial, when you are doing something you inwardly know is wrong, but you will make up every excuse as to why it is not wrong and so you can continue. Then of course there are the people who don’t like being told they are wrong and will continue to do it, just to prove a point.

Like when you think beer is essential while your doctor is telling you the opposite?

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

mollwollfumble said:

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

What happens with our short fleeting lives were you can die so very easily

mollwollfumble said:

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

The Denial of Reality
Many people deny truths even when presented with irrefutable scientific data!

There’s another meaning of ‘Denial’ in psychoanalytic theory, where it is a psychological defense we all use at times to reduce our anxiety when it feels particularly disturbing.

Finally there is a peculiar type of ‘Denial’ we are witnessing nowadays, whereby seemingly intelligent and sane adults vehemently deny truths despite a body of irrefutable data.

This Denial is akin to Stephen Colbert’s “Truthiness,” in that these deniers adamantly refuse to accept verified scientific facts because they get in the way of their own rigid ideas.

Here are just a few examples of their beliefs:

1) There is no such thing as man-made Global Warming…

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/our-emotional-footprint/201512/the-denial-reality

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

What happens with our short fleeting lives were you can die so very easily

Other things can happen.. Like the disease MS
the good news, it won’t kill you.
the bad news, it won’t kill you.

in the case of this, NODULAR PRURIGO

Self care (What can I do?)
The most important but hardest thing to do is to stop scratching.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

The Denial of Reality
Many people deny truths even when presented with irrefutable scientific data!

There’s another meaning of ‘Denial’ in psychoanalytic theory, where it is a psychological defense we all use at times to reduce our anxiety when it feels particularly disturbing.

Finally there is a peculiar type of ‘Denial’ we are witnessing nowadays, whereby seemingly intelligent and sane adults vehemently deny truths despite a body of irrefutable data.

This Denial is akin to Stephen Colbert’s “Truthiness,” in that these deniers adamantly refuse to accept verified scientific facts because they get in the way of their own rigid ideas.

Here are just a few examples of their beliefs:

1) There is no such thing as man-made Global Warming…

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/our-emotional-footprint/201512/the-denial-reality

I wonder if the denial is a core belief or just on the surface and is actually just plain old human selfishness and greed as we don’t want to deny ourselves something and to hell with the consequences to anyone not us or our family.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

What happens with our short fleeting lives were you can die so very easily

Other things can happen.. Like the disease MS
the good news, it won’t kill you.
the bad news, it won’t kill you.

in the case of this, NODULAR PRURIGO

Self care (What can I do?)
The most important but hardest thing to do is to stop scratching.

wear mittens

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

By way of refutation:

The Psychology of Apocalypticism1

Exploring Our Endless Obsession With the End | Psychology Today https://www.psychologytoday.com › blog

The end is always nigh in the human mind | New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com › article

The Denial of Reality
Many people deny truths even when presented with irrefutable scientific data!

There’s another meaning of ‘Denial’ in psychoanalytic theory, where it is a psychological defense we all use at times to reduce our anxiety when it feels particularly disturbing.

Finally there is a peculiar type of ‘Denial’ we are witnessing nowadays, whereby seemingly intelligent and sane adults vehemently deny truths despite a body of irrefutable data.

This Denial is akin to Stephen Colbert’s “Truthiness,” in that these deniers adamantly refuse to accept verified scientific facts because they get in the way of their own rigid ideas.

Here are just a few examples of their beliefs:

1) There is no such thing as man-made Global Warming…

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/our-emotional-footprint/201512/the-denial-reality

I wonder if the denial is a core belief or just on the surface and is actually just plain old human selfishness and greed as we don’t want to deny ourselves something and to hell with the consequences to anyone not us or our family.

No. Mostly when you hear someone utter with conviction that this global warming stuff is all crap, they have just got it straight from the mouth of Ray Hadley or others of his ilk.

That’s one of the problems of free speech, you see.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

What happens with our short fleeting lives were you can die so very easily

Other things can happen.. Like the disease MS
the good news, it won’t kill you.
the bad news, it won’t kill you.

in the case of this, NODULAR PRURIGO

Self care (What can I do?)
The most important but hardest thing to do is to stop scratching.

wear mittens

Well, eating blocks of hashish too maybe?

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

The Denial of Reality
Many people deny truths even when presented with irrefutable scientific data!

There’s another meaning of ‘Denial’ in psychoanalytic theory, where it is a psychological defense we all use at times to reduce our anxiety when it feels particularly disturbing.

Finally there is a peculiar type of ‘Denial’ we are witnessing nowadays, whereby seemingly intelligent and sane adults vehemently deny truths despite a body of irrefutable data.

This Denial is akin to Stephen Colbert’s “Truthiness,” in that these deniers adamantly refuse to accept verified scientific facts because they get in the way of their own rigid ideas.

Here are just a few examples of their beliefs:

1) There is no such thing as man-made Global Warming…

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/our-emotional-footprint/201512/the-denial-reality

I wonder if the denial is a core belief or just on the surface and is actually just plain old human selfishness and greed as we don’t want to deny ourselves something and to hell with the consequences to anyone not us or our family.

No. Mostly when you hear someone utter with conviction that this global warming stuff is all crap, they have just got it straight from the mouth of Ray Hadley or others of his ilk.

That’s one of the problems of free speech, you see.

It’s weird as you can observe for yourself the localised or even personal effects of pollution and then think imagine that small amount of pollution magnified a billion times over many decades and understand what it would do.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

I wonder if the denial is a core belief or just on the surface and is actually just plain old human selfishness and greed as we don’t want to deny ourselves something and to hell with the consequences to anyone not us or our family.

No. Mostly when you hear someone utter with conviction that this global warming stuff is all crap, they have just got it straight from the mouth of Ray Hadley or others of his ilk.

That’s one of the problems of free speech, you see.

It’s weird as you can observe for yourself the localised or even personal effects of pollution and then think imagine that small amount of pollution magnified a billion times over many decades and understand what it would do.

Yes. For people like me, I was never in denial of such things. It was important to me in 1969 that scientists argued that simply putting the Concorde into service could be the tipping point of the ozone layer and create global warming.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

No. Mostly when you hear someone utter with conviction that this global warming stuff is all crap, they have just got it straight from the mouth of Ray Hadley or others of his ilk.

That’s one of the problems of free speech, you see.

It’s weird as you can observe for yourself the localised or even personal effects of pollution and then think imagine that small amount of pollution magnified a billion times over many decades and understand what it would do.

Yes. For people like me, I was never in denial of such things. It was important to me in 1969 that scientists argued that simply putting the Concorde into service could be the tipping point of the ozone layer and create global warming.

Others simply wanted to get from A to B more quickly.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

No. Mostly when you hear someone utter with conviction that this global warming stuff is all crap, they have just got it straight from the mouth of Ray Hadley or others of his ilk.

That’s one of the problems of free speech, you see.

It’s weird as you can observe for yourself the localised or even personal effects of pollution and then think imagine that small amount of pollution magnified a billion times over many decades and understand what it would do.

Yes. For people like me, I was never in denial of such things. It was important to me in 1969 that scientists argued that simply putting the Concorde into service could be the tipping point of the ozone layer and create global warming.

Opinions are not facts.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

It’s weird as you can observe for yourself the localised or even personal effects of pollution and then think imagine that small amount of pollution magnified a billion times over many decades and understand what it would do.

Yes. For people like me, I was never in denial of such things. It was important to me in 1969 that scientists argued that simply putting the Concorde into service could be the tipping point of the ozone layer and create global warming.

Opinions are not facts.

Of course they aren’t. However, I’d prefer to hear the case argued rather than stated against with absolute certainty.

There is no such thing as “denialism”.

Never has been.

mollwollfumble said:

There is no such thing as “denialism”.

Never has been.

In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person’s choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

There is no such thing as “denialism”.

Never has been.

In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person’s choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

I think it was supposed to be a joke.

mollwollfumble said:

There is no such thing as “denialism”.

Never has been.

I doubt all of that.

sarahs mum said:

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

There is no such thing as “denialism”.

Never has been.

In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person’s choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

I think it was supposed to be a joke.

HaHaHa.

PermeateFree said:

sarahs mum said:

PermeateFree said:

In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person’s choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

I think it was supposed to be a joke.

HaHaHa.

No one said it was a funny joke.

LOOK WHO JUST CAUGHT UP! /-:<

Ogmog said:

LOOK WHO JUST CAUGHT UP! /-:<

Thanks for link

This is why its important to differentiate ICE reduction across the planet, as methane released by ice melt does not happen everywhere.

This is what humanity is denying

List of climate change global warming effects

1 Increased temperatures bringing heatwaves and drought in local areas
2 Changing rain patterns that can see rain decreasing in some areas and increasing in other areas.
3 Increased lightning and thunderstorm activity
4 Increased bush fire activity
5 Increased cyclones and storms
6 Increased volcanism in some areas
7 Increased Polar Vortex activity.
8 Increased intense winters
9 Increased damage to fragile ecosystems
10 Effects of climate change on crop pollination
11 Warmer oceans global average increase of 0.1°C
12 Increased ocean acidity due to more dissolved CO2
13 Rising sea levels
14 Reduction of polar ice
15 Reduction of sea ice
16 Reduction of glaciers, causing trapped methane to be released.
17 Reduction of snow packs
18 Thawing permafrost
19 Extra carbon dioxide and other gases in the atmosphere
20 Warmer atmosphere Global average increase of 1.4 °C
21 Increased wave activity
22 Reduction of insects across the globe
23 Increased tidal levels in some areas
24 Plant and animal ranges are changing
25 Trees flowering sooner in some areas
26 Increased flooding and erosion is some areas
27 Declining water supplies in other areas
28 Declining biodiversity related to global warming
29 Extinctions related to global warming
30 Increase in human deaths related to global warming
31 Migration of people as rain patterns change local drought
32 Changes in crop locations with changing precipitation patterns
33 Increases in diseases related to floods and sewage
34 Changes in house prices due to various reasons flooding, rising sea levels.
35 Increase in malnutrition and food shortages
36 Increases in air conditioning cooling and heating use as temperatures soar or plummet
37 Extreme Weather Is Preventing Plants From Processing Carbon
38 Global warming is linked to agriculture
39 global warming is linked to deforestation

Who is this humanity person

The Rev Dodgson said:

Who is this humanity person

Dont know them.

Tau.Neutrino said:

This is what humanity is denying

List of climate change global warming effects

1 Increased temperatures bringing heatwaves and drought in local areas
2 Changing rain patterns that can see rain decreasing in some areas and increasing in other areas.
3 Increased lightning and thunderstorm activity
4 Increased bush fire activity
<snip>
39 global warming is linked to deforestation
</snip>

What you’re failing to mention is THE TIME LINE

Potential Run-Away Warming

The Rev Dodgson said:

Who is this humanity person

who?

there is of course, the unusual fact, or situation, regard what we (and individuals) once considered out of human control (part of the essence of nature, the idea, the definition), might be reconsidered as within control, given the causal link established.

add that you know there are too many humans.

humans breed like they’re threatened with extinction, and people seriously fear a rapidly aging population, a lot of old people, because capitalism as you know it will collapse.

Bear with me. I’m thinking out loud.

When any organisation loses a debate based on logic it resorts to name-calling. Often this is a gross misuse of an archaic term that used to mean something totally different.

The Chinese communists applied the insult “reactionany” to everyone that didn’t believe that the sun shone out of chairman Mao’s arse. It has nothing to do with “reaction”.

The US government applied the insult “communist” to allies of Russia. It was nothing to do with “commune”.

The US government applied the insult “terrorism” to anyone who doesn’t like what the government is doing. It has nothing to do with “government by terror”, as in the French revolution.

The Environmentalist movement, realising that it is being defeated by logic and scientific fact, also resorts to name-calling, in this case using the insult “denialist” to refer to everyone who doesn’t think that the Sun shines out of Al Gore’s arse, and to everyone who doesn’t implicitly believe in media hype. It has nothing to do with “denial”.

That’s the psychology of denialism.

transition said:

there is of course, the unusual fact, or situation, regard what we (and individuals) once considered out of human control (part of the essence of nature, the idea, the definition), might be reconsidered as within control, given the causal link established.

add that you know there are too many humans.

humans breed like they’re threatened with extinction, and people seriously fear a rapidly aging population, a lot of old people, because capitalism as you know it will collapse.

there was a space once, a large space, the outdoors, of which each human variously inhabited, known as the world, the earth, or part of, and it was plentiful. Nature it was known as, and a large aspect of what it provided was limits, a pillow of sorts, a ceiling to what each (and groups) were responsible for, a reality not unknown to and inseparable from a liberal ideology and states of (administering territories).

the situation now is that nature is in retreat, it’s shrinking, not unlike a rechargeable battery shrinks with use, though it appears the same size, and appears like a full-size battery, it can look like a battery until fully exhausted, until it is a looks like a battery but performs no functions of a battery. Are the structures of nature a battery of sorts? Absolutely.

> the situation now is that nature is in retreat, it’s shrinking

No.

Forests are not in retreat, they’re growing, https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=https%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/10805/

Inorganic nature is not in retreat.

Even the universe is growing.

mollwollfumble said:

> the situation now is that nature is in retreat, it’s shrinking

No.

Forests are not in retreat, they’re growing, https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=https%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/10805/

Inorganic nature is not in retreat.

Even the universe is growing.

evolved structure locally is declining.

digging coal up and burning it, for example.

mollwollfumble said:

> the situation now is that nature is in retreat, it’s shrinking

No.

Forests are not in retreat, they’re growing, https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=https%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/10805/

Inorganic nature is not in retreat.

Even the universe is growing.

Just because forests are growing, it does not mean they are stocked with animals. In fact it might be why they are growing, many animals like eating young plants and it they are not there, you can guess the result. Forest composition is another factor in healthy forests of which animals are required to pollinate and distribute seed. It is possible faster growing species are out competing slower growing ones, which would cause a lack of biodiversity.

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

> the situation now is that nature is in retreat, it’s shrinking

No.

Forests are not in retreat, they’re growing, https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=https%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/10805/

Inorganic nature is not in retreat.

Even the universe is growing.

evolved structure locally is declining.

digging coal up and burning it, for example.

locally you can see the structures evolved on earth as being like banked up energy, call it an example of negentropy if you like, short of a mundane explanation of biogenesis and evolution of organic complexity (and whatever its non-living precursers were) local.

humans have spent a lot of that banked up energy (the evolved structure).

transition said:

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

> the situation now is that nature is in retreat, it’s shrinking

No.

Forests are not in retreat, they’re growing, https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/?main=https%3A//tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/10805/

Inorganic nature is not in retreat.

Even the universe is growing.

evolved structure locally is declining.

digging coal up and burning it, for example.

locally you can see the structures evolved on earth as being like banked up energy, call it an example of negentropy if you like, short of a mundane explanation of biogenesis and evolution of organic complexity (and whatever its non-living precursers were) local.

humans have spent a lot of that banked up energy (the evolved structure).

in fact i’d say humans have been largely entropic to date, the net balance.

a minority probably, among a lot more indifference, then there are those that genuinely care.

more worrying than denialists, their existence, would be a complete absence.

transition said:

a minority probably, among a lot more indifference, then there are those that genuinely care.

more worrying than denialists, their existence, would be a complete absence.

there are all sorts of denial. All sorts of expediency too.