Date: 24/02/2019 12:29:07
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351256
Subject: a world built for men

I put this in chat but it went past without a comment.

I shared it on facebook and got one comment, from a male, who said it wasn’t worth reading because he knew what the first paragraph told him.

So I am copying it here in full.

——————————————————————

When broadcaster Sandi Toksvig was studying anthropology at university, one of her female professors held up a photograph of an antler bone with 28 markings on it. “This,” said the professor, “is alleged to be man’s first attempt at a calendar.” Toksvig and her fellow students looked at the bone in admiration. “Tell me,” the professor continued, “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed? I suspect that this is woman’s first attempt at a calendar.”

Women have always tracked their periods. We’ve had to. Since 2015, I’ve been reliant on a period tracker app, which reassures me that there’s a reason I’m welling up just thinking about Andy Murray’s “casual feminism”. And then there’s the issue of the period itself: when you will be bleeding for up to seven days every month, it’s useful to know more or less when those seven days are going to take place. Every woman knows this, and Toksvig’s experience is a neat example of the difference a female perspective can make, even to issues that seem entirely unrelated to gender.

For most of human history, though, that perspective has not been recorded. Going back to the theory of Man the Hunter, the lives of men have been taken to represent those of humans overall. When it comes to the other half of humanity, there is often nothing but silence. And these silences are everywhere. Films, news, literature, science, city planning, economics, the stories we tell ourselves about our past, present and future, are all marked – disfigured – by a female-shaped “absent presence”. This is the gender data gap.

These silences, these gaps, have consequences. They impact on women’s lives, every day. The impact can be relatively minor – struggling to reach a top shelf set at a male height norm, for example. Irritating, certainly. But not life-threatening. Not like crashing in a car whose safety tests don’t account for women’s measurements. Not like dying from a stab wound because your police body armour doesn’t fit you properly. For these women, the consequences of living in a world built around male data can be deadly.

The gender data gap is both a cause and a consequence of the type of unthinking that conceives of humanity as almost exclusively male. In the 1956 musical My Fair Lady, phoneticist Henry Higgins is baffled when, after enduring months of his hectoring put-downs, his protege-cum-victim Eliza Doolittle finally bites back. “Why can’t a woman be more like a man?” he grumbles.
When ‘women’s work’ is deadly

The formula to determine standard office temperature was developed in the 1960s around the metabolic resting rate of the average man. But a recent Dutch study found that the metabolic rate of young adult females performing light office work is significantly lower than the standard values for men doing the same activity. In fact, the formula may overestimate female metabolic rate by as much as 35%, meaning that current offices are on average five degrees too cold for women. This leads to the odd sight of female office workers wrapped in blankets in the summer, while their male colleagues wander around in shorts.
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Not only is this situation inequitable, it is bad business sense: an uncomfortable workforce is an unproductive workforce. But workplace data gaps lead to a lot worse than simple discomfort and inefficiency. Over the past 100 years, workplaces have, on the whole, got considerably safer. In the early 1900s, about 4,400 people in the UK died at work every year. By 2016, that figure had fallen to 135. But while serious injuries at work have been decreasing for men, there is evidence that they have been increasing among women. The gender data gap is again implicated, with occupational research traditionally focused on male-dominated industries.

Every year, 8,000 people in the UK die from work-related cancers. And although most research in this area has been done on men, it’s far from clear that men are the most affected. Over the past 50 years, breast cancer rates in the industrialised world have risen significantly – but a failure to research female bodies, occupations and environments means that the data for exactly what is behind this rise is lacking. “We know everything about dust disease in miners,” Rory O’Neill, professor of occupational and environmental policy research at the University of Stirling, tells me. “You can’t say the same for exposures, physical or chemical, in ‘women’s work’.”

Cancer is a long-latency disease, O’Neill says, so even if we started the studies now, it would take a working generation before we had any usable data. But we aren’t starting the studies now. Instead, we continue to rely on data from studies done on men as if they apply to women. Specifically, Caucasian men aged 25 to 30, who weigh 70kg. This is “Reference Man” and his superpower is being able to represent humanity as a whole. Of course, he does not.
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Men and women have different immune systems and hormones, which can play a role in how chemicals are absorbed. Women tend to be smaller than men and have thinner skin, both of which can lower the level of toxins they can be safely exposed to. This lower tolerance threshold is compounded by women’s higher percentage of body fat, in which some chemicals can accumulate. Chemicals are still usually tested in isolation, and on the basis of a single exposure. But this is not how women tend to encounter them.

In nail salons, where the workforce is almost exclusively female (and often migrant), workers will be exposed on a daily basis to a huge range of chemicals that are “routinely found in the polishes, removers, gels, shellacs, disinfectants and adhesives that are staples of their work”, according to the Canadian researcher Anne Rochon Ford. Many of these chemicals have been linked to cancer, miscarriages and lung diseases. Some may alter the body’s normal hormonal functions. If these women then go home and begin a second unpaid shift cleaning their home, they will be exposed to different chemicals that are ubiquitous in common products. The effects of these mixing together are largely unknown.

Most of the research on chemicals has focused on their absorption through the skin. But many of the ones used in nail salons are extremely volatile, which means that they evaporate at room temperature and can be inhaled – along with the considerable amounts of dust produced when acrylic nails are filed. The research on how this may impact on workers is virtually nonexistent.

Part of the failure to see the risks in traditionally female-dominated industries is because often these jobs are an extension of what women do in the home (although at a more onerous scale). But the data gap when it comes to women in the workplace doesn’t only arise in female-dominated industries.

Little data exists on injuries to women in construction, but the New York Committee for Occupational Safety & Health (NYCOSH) points to a US study of union carpenters that found women had higher rates of sprains, strains and nerve conditions of the wrist and forearm than men. Given the lack of data, it’s hard to be sure exactly why this is, but it’s a safe bet to attribute at least some of the blame to “standard” construction site equipment being designed around the male body.

A female police officer had to have breast-reduction surgery because of the health effects of wearing her body armour

Wendy Davis, ex-director of the Women’s Design Service in the UK, questions the standard size of a bag of cement. It’s a comfortable weight for a man to lift – but it doesn’t actually have to be that size, she points out. “If they were a bit smaller, then women could lift them.” Davis also takes issue with the standard brick size. “I’ve got photographs of my daughter holding a brick. She can’t get her hand round it. But Danny’s hand fits perfectly comfortably. Why does a brick have to be that size?” She also notes that the typical A1 architect’s portfolio fits nicely under most men’s arms while most women’s arms don’t reach round it.

NYCOSH similarly notes that “standard hand tools like wrenches tend to be too large for women’s hands to grip tightly”.

In the UK, employers are legally required to provide well-maintained personal protective equipment (PPE) – anything from goggles to full body suits – to workers who need it, free of charge. But most PPE is based on the sizes and characteristics of male populations from Europe and the US. The TUC found that employers often think that when it comes to female workers all they need to do to comply with this legal requirement is to buy smaller sizes.

Differences in chests, hips and thighs can affect the way the straps fit on safety harnesses. The use of a “standard” US male face shape for dust, hazard and eye masks means they don’t fit most women (as well as a lot of black and minority ethnic men). A 2017 TUC report found that the problem with ill-fitting PPE was worst in the emergency services, where only 5% of women said that their PPE never hampered their work, with body armour, stab vests, hi-vis vests and jackets all highlighted as unsuitable.

When it comes to frontline workers, poorly fitting PPE can prove fatal. In 1997, a British female police officer was stabbed and killed while using a hydraulic ram to enter a flat. She had removed her body armour because it was too difficult to use the ram while wearing it. Two years later, a female police officer revealed that she had had to have breast-reduction surgery because of the health effects of wearing her body armour. After this case was reported, another 700 officers in the same force came forward to complain about the standard-issue protective vest.

But although the complaints have been coming regularly over the past 20 years, little seems to have been done. British female police officers report being bruised by their kit belts; a number have had to have physiotherapy because of the way stab vests sit on their body; many complain there is no space for their breasts. This is not only uncomfortable, it also results in stab vests coming up too short, leaving women unprotected.
The tyranny of the toilet queue

In April 2017, the BBC journalist Samira Ahmed wanted to use a toilet. She was at a screening of the James Baldwin documentary I Am Not Your Negro at London’s Barbican arts centre, and it was the interval. Any woman who has ever been to the theatre knows what that means. This evening, the queue was worse than usual. Far worse. Because in an almost comically blatant display of not having thought about women at all, the Barbican had turned both the male and female toilets gender neutral simply by replacing the “men” and “women” signage with “gender neutral with urinals” and “gender neutral with cubicles”. The obvious happened. Only men were using the supposedly “gender neutral with urinals” and everyone was using the “gender neutral with cubicles”.

Rather than rendering the toilets genuinely gender neutral, they had simply increased the provision for men. “Ah the irony of having to explain discrimination having just been to see I Am Not Your Negro IN YOUR CINEMA”, Ahmed tweeted, suggesting that turning the gents gender neutral would be sufficient: “There’s NEVER such a queue there & you know it.”

On the face of it, it may seem fair and equitable to accord male and female public toilets the same amount of space – and historically, this is the way it has been done: 50/50 division of floor space has even been formalised in plumbing codes. However, if a male toilet has both cubicles and urinals, the number of people who can relieve themselves at once is far higher per square foot of floor space in the male bathroom than in the female bathroom. Suddenly equal floor space isn’t so equal.

But even if male and female toilets had an equal number of stalls, the issue wouldn’t be resolved, because women take up to 2.3 times as long as men to use the toilet. Women make up the majority of the elderly and disabled, two groups that will tend to need more time in the toilet. Women are also more likely to be accompanied by children, as well as disabled and older people. Then there’s the 20–25% of women of childbearing age who may be on their period at any one time, and therefore need to change a tampon or a sanitary pad.
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Women may also require more trips to the bathroom: pregnancy significantly reduces bladder capacity, and women are eight times more likely to suffer from urinary-tract infections. In the face of all these anatomical differences, it would surely take a formal equality dogmatist to continue to argue that equal floor space between men and women is fair.
The gadgets built for one-size-fits-men

In 1998, a pianist called Christopher Donison wrote that “one can divide the world into roughly two constituencies”: those with larger hands, and those with smaller hands. Donison was writing as a male pianist who, due to his smaller than average hands, had struggled for years with traditional keyboards, but he could equally have been writing as a woman. There is plenty of data showing that women have, on average, smaller hands, and yet we continue to design equipment around the average male hand as if one-size-fits-men is the same as one-size-fits-all.

The average smartphone size is now 5.5 inches. While the average man can fairly comfortably use his device one-handed, the average woman’s hand is not much bigger than the handset itself. This is obviously annoying – and foolish for a company like Apple, given that research shows women are more likely to own an iPhone than men.

One woman found her car’s voice-command system only listened to her husband, even though he was in the passenger seat

The tech journalist and author James Ball has a theory for why the big-screen fixation persists: because the received wisdom is that men drive high-end smartphone purchases. But if women aren’t driving high-end smartphone purchases – at least for non-Apple products – is it because women aren’t interested in smartphones? Or could it be because smartphones are designed without women in mind? On the bright side, Ball reassured me that screens probably wouldn’t be getting any bigger because “they’ve hit the limit of men’s hand size”.

Good news for men, then. But tough breaks for women like my friend Liz who owns a third-generation Motorola Moto G. In response to one of my regular rants about handset sizes she replied that she’d just been “complaining to a friend about how difficult it was to zoom on my phone camera. He said it was easy on his. Turns out we have the same phone. I wondered if it was a hand-size thing.”

When Zeynep Tufekci, a researcher at the University of North Carolina, was trying to document tear gas use in the Gezi Park protests in Turkey in 2013, the size of her Google Nexus got in the way. It was the evening of 9 June. Gezi Park was crowded. Parents were there with their children. And then the canisters were fired. Because officials “often claimed that tear gas was used only on vandals and violent protesters”, Tufekci wanted to document what was happening. So she pulled out her phone. “And as my lungs, eyes and nose burned with the pain of the lachrymatory agent released from multiple capsules that had fallen around me, I started cursing.” Her phone was too big. She could not take a picture one-handed – “something I had seen countless men with larger hands do all the time”. All Tufekci’s photos from the event were unusable, she wrote, and “for one simple reason: good smartphones are designed for male hands”.
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Voice recognition could be one solution to a smartphone that doesn’t fit your hands, but voice-recognition software is often hopelessly male-biased. In 2016, Rachael Tatman, a research fellow in linguistics at the University of Washington, found that Google’s speech-recognition software was 70% more likely to accurately recognise male speech.

Clearly, it is unfair for women to pay the same price as men for products that deliver an inferior service. But there can also be serious safety implications. Voice-recognition software in cars, for example, is meant to decrease distractions and make driving safer. But they can have the opposite effect if they don’t work. An article on car website Autoblog quoted a woman who had bought a 2012 Ford Focus, only to find that its voice-command system only listened to her husband, even though he was in the passenger seat. Another woman called the manufacturer for help when her Buick’s voice-activated phone system wouldn’t listen to her: “The guy told me point-blank it wasn’t ever going to work for me. They told me to get a man to set it up.”

Immediately after writing this, I was with my mother in her Volvo Cross Country watching her try and fail to get the voice-recognition system to call her sister. After five failed attempts I suggested she tried lowering the pitch of her voice. It worked first time.

In the tech world, the implicit assumption that men are the default human remains king. When Apple launched its health-monitoring system with much fanfare in 2014, it boasted a “comprehensive” health tracker. It could track blood pressure; steps taken; blood alcohol level; even molybdenum and copper intake. But as many women pointed out at the time, they forgot one crucial detail: a period tracker.

When Apple launched their AI, Siri, users in the US found that she (ironically) could find prostitutes and Viagra suppliers, but not abortion providers. Siri could help you if you’d had a heart attack, but if you told her you’d been raped, she replied “I don’t know what you mean by ‘I was raped.’”

From smartwatches that are too big for women’s wrists, to map apps that fail to account for women who may want to know the “safest” in addition to “fastest” routes; to “measure how good you are at sex” apps called “iThrust” and “iBang” the tech industry is rife with other examples. While there are an increasing number of female-led tech firms that do cater to women’s needs, they are seen as a “niche” concern and often struggle to get funding.

One study of 1
Men are more likely than women to be involved in a car crash, which means they dominate the numbers of those seriously injured in them. But when a woman is involved in a car crash, she is 47% more likely to be seriously injured, and 71% more likely to be moderately injured, even when researchers control for factors such as height, weight, seatbelt usage, and crash intensity. She is also 17% more likely to die. And it’s all to do with how the car is designed – and for whom.

Women tend to sit further forward when driving. This is because we are on average shorter. Our legs need to be closer to reach the pedals, and we need to sit more upright to see clearly over the dashboard. This is not, however, the “standard seating position”, researchers have noted. Women are “out of position” drivers. And our wilful deviation from the norm means that we are at greater risk of internal injury on frontal collisions. The angle of our knees and hips as our shorter legs reach for the pedals also makes our legs more vulnerable. Essentially, we’re doing it all wrong.

Cars have been designed using car crash-test dummies based on the ‘average’ male

Women are also at higher risk in rear-end collisions. We have less muscle on our necks and upper torso, which make us more vulnerable to whiplash (by up to three times), and car design has amplified this vulnerability. Swedish research has shown that modern seats are too firm to protect women against whiplash injuries: the seats throw women forward faster than men because the back of the seat doesn’t give way for women’s on average lighter bodies. The reason this has been allowed to happen is very simple: cars have been designed using car crash-test dummies based on the “average” male.

Crash-test dummies were first introduced in the 1950s, and for decades they were based around the 50th-percentile male. The most commonly used dummy is 1.77m tall and weighs 76kg (significantly taller and heavier than an average woman); the dummy also has male muscle-mass proportions and a male spinal column. In the early 1980s, researchers based at Michigan University argued for the inclusion of a 50th-percentile female in regulatory tests, but this advice was ignored by manufacturers and regulators. It wasn’t until 2011 that the US started using a female crash-test dummy – although, as we’ll see, just how “female” these dummies are is questionable.

In 2018, Astrid Linder, research director of traffic safety at the Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute, presented a paper at the Road Safety on Five Continents Conference in South Korea, in which she ran through EU regulatory crash-test requirements. In no test is an anthropometrically correct female crash-test dummy required. The seatbelt test, one of the frontal-collision tests, and both lateral-collision tests all specify that a 50th-percentile male dummy should be used. There is one EU regulatory test that requires what is called a 5th-percentile female dummy, which is meant to represent the female population. Only 5% of women will be shorter than this dummy. But there are a number of data gaps. For a start, this dummy is only tested in the passenger seat, so we have no data at all for how a female driver would be affected – something of an issue you would think, given women’s “out of position” driving style. And secondly, this female dummy is not really female. It is just a scaled-down male dummy.
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Consumer tests can be slightly more stringent than regulatory ones. The 2011 introduction of female crash-test dummies in the US sent cars’ star ratings plummeting. When I spoke to EuroNCAP, a European organisation that provides car safety ratings for consumers, they said that since 2015 they have used male and female dummies in both front-crash tests, and that they base their female dummies on female anthropometric data – with the caveat that this is “where data is available”. EuroNCAP acknowledged that “sometimes” they do just use scaled-down male dummies. But women are not scaled-down men. We have different muscle mass distribution. We have lower bone density. There are differences in vertebrae spacing. Even our body sway is different. And these differences are all crucial when it comes to injury rates in car crashes.

The situation is even worse for pregnant women. Although a pregnant crash-test dummy was created back in 1996, testing with it is still not government-mandated either in the US or in the EU. In fact, even though car crashes are the No 1 cause of foetal death related to maternal trauma, we haven’t yet developed a seatbelt that works for pregnant women. Research from 2004 suggests that pregnant women should use the standard seatbelt; but 62% of third-trimester pregnant women don’t fit that design.

Linder has been working on what she says will be the first crash-test dummy to accurately represent female bodies. Currently, it’s just a prototype, but she is calling on the EU to make testing on such dummies a legal requirement. In fact, Linder argues that this already is a legal requirement, technically speaking. Article 8 of the Treaty of the Functioning of the European Union reads, “In all its activities, the Union shall aim to eliminate inequalities, and to promote equality, between men and women.” Clearly, women being 47% more likely to be seriously injured in a car crash is one hell of an inequality to overlook.

Designers may believe they are making products for everyone, but in reality they are mainly making them for men. It’s time to start designing women in.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 12:39:17
From: kii
ID: 1351262
Subject: re: a world built for men

I’ll read it later on fb, once my tablet recharges. It’s easier for me to read long pieces on the tablet. Whilst lying down with my favourite heating pad and my Grumpy Cat :P

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 12:40:19
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351263
Subject: re: a world built for men

I thought it a good article. The first para was just an alternative way of looking at the evidence. and just as valid as the male dominated one.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 12:45:12
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351268
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


I thought it a good article. The first para was just an alternative way of looking at the evidence. and just as valid as the male dominated one.

The first par also was a link to the comprehensive health tracker discussed further into the article. I’m not sure it was the right place to start the conversation but it was a place to start conversation.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 12:50:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351272
Subject: re: a world built for men

Too much text

Yes, pregnant women do need better seatbelts

A symmetrical racing type one ? but tested on pregnant crash test dummies.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 12:52:30
From: Tamb
ID: 1351275
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


Too much text

Yes, pregnant women do need better seatbelts

A symmetrical racing type one ? but tested on pregnant crash test dummies.

It’s also a world built for right handers.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 12:55:49
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1351283
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Too much text

Yes, pregnant women do need better seatbelts

A symmetrical racing type one ? but tested on pregnant crash test dummies.

It’s also a world built for right handers.

Too many left handers, too many batsmen in the Australian cricket team that stand on the wrong side of the bat.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:03:11
From: transition
ID: 1351285
Subject: re: a world built for men

the bias for men, that serves men, is in substantial part the consequence of denial of the mammal. Men in some technical sense can be understood as being less mammal. Both the ladies and men internalize the denial of the mammal as part of the elevated (human) primate view.

a theory of mine, which I reckon there’s good evidence for.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:05:36
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351287
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


the bias for men, that serves men, is in substantial part the consequence of denial of the mammal. Men in some technical sense can be understood as being less mammal. Both the ladies and men internalize the denial of the mammal as part of the elevated (human) primate view.

a theory of mine, which I reckon there’s good evidence for.

There are probably many humans in denial about being a mammal, and many more in denial about reality.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:08:36
From: transition
ID: 1351289
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

the bias for men, that serves men, is in substantial part the consequence of denial of the mammal. Men in some technical sense can be understood as being less mammal. Both the ladies and men internalize the denial of the mammal as part of the elevated (human) primate view.

a theory of mine, which I reckon there’s good evidence for.

There are probably many humans in denial about being a mammal, and many more in denial about reality.

the mammal thing’s very important, the bio-history to contemporary behavior. The nurturement landscape is biased, and has been by mammal denial in a sense.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:13:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351291
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

the bias for men, that serves men, is in substantial part the consequence of denial of the mammal. Men in some technical sense can be understood as being less mammal. Both the ladies and men internalize the denial of the mammal as part of the elevated (human) primate view.

a theory of mine, which I reckon there’s good evidence for.

There are probably many humans in denial about being a mammal, and many more in denial about reality.

the mammal thing’s very important, the bio-history to contemporary behavior. The nurturement landscape is biased, and has been by mammal denial in a sense.

I wonder if its a phobia of nature?, or just people putting themselves above nature?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:15:28
From: transition
ID: 1351292
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

There are probably many humans in denial about being a mammal, and many more in denial about reality.

the mammal thing’s very important, the bio-history to contemporary behavior. The nurturement landscape is biased, and has been by mammal denial in a sense.

I wonder if its a phobia of nature?, or just people putting themselves above nature?

Good question, like religion elevated the intellect over beastly desires. They’re not unrelated.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:18:46
From: transition
ID: 1351294
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

the mammal thing’s very important, the bio-history to contemporary behavior. The nurturement landscape is biased, and has been by mammal denial in a sense.

I wonder if its a phobia of nature?, or just people putting themselves above nature?

Good question, like religion elevated the intellect over beastly desires. They’re not unrelated.

call it a bipedal philosophy, just a thought to get the idea started.

I reckon mammal denial is nasty

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:26:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351296
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder if its a phobia of nature?, or just people putting themselves above nature?

Good question, like religion elevated the intellect over beastly desires. They’re not unrelated.

call it a bipedal philosophy, just a thought to get the idea started.

I reckon mammal denial is nasty

Yes, denial of ones existence is problematic, and can lead to unhealthy and or false concepts, which can be acted upon.

Mammal denial, is pushing away nature, biology, chemistry and human values.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:30:05
From: transition
ID: 1351297
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

transition said:

Good question, like religion elevated the intellect over beastly desires. They’re not unrelated.

call it a bipedal philosophy, just a thought to get the idea started.

I reckon mammal denial is nasty

Yes, denial of ones existence is problematic, and can lead to unhealthy and or false concepts, which can be acted upon.

Mammal denial, is pushing away nature, biology, chemistry and human values.

you see there above you said human values ^, difficult to shake isn’t it.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:40:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351299
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

call it a bipedal philosophy, just a thought to get the idea started.

I reckon mammal denial is nasty

Yes, denial of ones existence is problematic, and can lead to unhealthy and or false concepts, which can be acted upon.

Mammal denial, is pushing away nature, biology, chemistry and human values.

you see there above you said human values ^, difficult to shake isn’t it.

For many, yes, for others less empathic, they go another direction.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:45:58
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351300
Subject: re: a world built for men

One approach for designing a seat for pregnant women is to build the front passenger seat so that can be be swiveled facing front or back, with symmetrical seat belts built into the seat itself with side air bags and the seat swivels sideways to allow easy exit.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:48:34
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351301
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


One approach for designing a seat for pregnant women is to build the front passenger seat so that can be be swiveled facing front or back, with symmetrical seat belts built into the seat itself with side air bags and the seat swivels sideways to allow easy exit.

Because the pregnant woman isn’t going to drive the car?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:48:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351302
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


One approach for designing a seat for pregnant women is to build the front passenger seat so that can be be swiveled facing front or back, with symmetrical seat belts built into the seat itself with side air bags and the seat swivels sideways to allow easy exit.

And bring some in pregnant women into the design phase to test different types of symmetrical seat belt designs.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 13:59:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351304
Subject: re: a world built for men

sarahs mum said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

One approach for designing a seat for pregnant women is to build the front passenger seat so that can be be swiveled facing front or back, with symmetrical seat belts built into the seat itself with side air bags and the seat swivels sideways to allow easy exit.

Because the pregnant woman isn’t going to drive the car?

Thats up to her. here are some ideas

drivers seat can be made to swivel around sideways electronically for easy exit and drivers doors can be made to open the opposite way.

Drivers seat, can move forwards or backwards electronically.

Steering wheels can be made to retract inwards and extend when driving, electrical assist

they can be designed smaller and have the bottom and top bits flattended out like this

testing would require around 100+ pregnant women over the various times of their pregnancy.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:01:45
From: transition
ID: 1351306
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes, denial of ones existence is problematic, and can lead to unhealthy and or false concepts, which can be acted upon.

Mammal denial, is pushing away nature, biology, chemistry and human values.

you see there above you said human values ^, difficult to shake isn’t it.

For many, yes, for others less empathic, they go another direction.

You’ll notice you’re not bipedal when sleeping or resting horizontal. That seems uninteresting or trivial perhaps to the elevated work of the human mind, keenness for constructions, projections so.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:07:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351307
Subject: re: a world built for men

It would be great to see some pregnant women as part of a design team.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:09:53
From: Tamb
ID: 1351308
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


It would be great to see some pregnant women as part of a design team.

Need to get the job done in about 7 months.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:12:56
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351309
Subject: re: a world built for men

another suggestion would be to have seats that swivel, then extend forward and upwards to allow for easy disembarking.

Remote key can be programmed to position seat when opening door.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:14:07
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351310
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

you see there above you said human values ^, difficult to shake isn’t it.

For many, yes, for others less empathic, they go another direction.

You’ll notice you’re not bipedal when sleeping or resting horizontal. That seems uninteresting or trivial perhaps to the elevated work of the human mind, keenness for constructions, projections so.

LOL, yeah, you’re still bipedal, unless you’ve cut you legs off.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:14:59
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351311
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

It would be great to see some pregnant women as part of a design team.

Need to get the job done in about 7 months.

The physical limitations are not for 9 months. Unless there are morning sickness or other problems.

I rode the motorcycle until 6 and half months. It was at that point when I realised the shocks weren’t working well enough for my condition.
By 8 months pregnant it was difficult to do the dishes because I coudn’t get close enough to the sink.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:16:45
From: transition
ID: 1351312
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

For many, yes, for others less empathic, they go another direction.

You’ll notice you’re not bipedal when sleeping or resting horizontal. That seems uninteresting or trivial perhaps to the elevated work of the human mind, keenness for constructions, projections so.

LOL, yeah, you’re still bipedal, unless you’ve cut you legs off.

well, that sort of thing is the subject of a conversation here, the question of, for example, is a quadriplegic bipedal.

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:20:25
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351314
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

You’ll notice you’re not bipedal when sleeping or resting horizontal. That seems uninteresting or trivial perhaps to the elevated work of the human mind, keenness for constructions, projections so.

LOL, yeah, you’re still bipedal, unless you’ve cut you legs off.

well, that sort of thing is the subject of a conversation here, the question of, for example, is a quadriplegic bipedal.

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

if they still have their legs then they are bipedal. just because they can’t use them make little difference.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:23:48
From: transition
ID: 1351315
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

ChrispenEvan said:

LOL, yeah, you’re still bipedal, unless you’ve cut you legs off.

well, that sort of thing is the subject of a conversation here, the question of, for example, is a quadriplegic bipedal.

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

if they still have their legs then they are bipedal. just because they can’t use them make little difference.

anyway, on the subject of function, the idea goes back to male tits.

whether you’re less mammal, presuming you’re a guy, because you have no protuberances that could feed a baby.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:24:06
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351316
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

why?so that your statement becomes true?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:25:48
From: transition
ID: 1351317
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

why?so that your statement becomes true?

just have a go, for a moment.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:27:01
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351318
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

why?so that your statement becomes true?

just have a go, for a moment.

why? what will be achieved?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:27:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351319
Subject: re: a world built for men

Electronic height adjust and angle adjustment of steering wheel as well as being retractable and forward

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:27:54
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351320
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

well, that sort of thing is the subject of a conversation here, the question of, for example, is a quadriplegic bipedal.

if you consider humans as not entirely bipedal, always, for a moment.

if they still have their legs then they are bipedal. just because they can’t use them make little difference.

anyway, on the subject of function, the idea goes back to male tits.

whether you’re less mammal, presuming you’re a guy, because you have no protuberances that could feed a baby.

nah, males are still all mammals.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:30:58
From: transition
ID: 1351321
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

ChrispenEvan said:

why?so that your statement becomes true?

just have a go, for a moment.

why? what will be achieved?

with many things, they don’t have to achieve anything, there need be no objective.

how bipedal are you, beyond counting legs?

how mammal are you?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:39:53
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351322
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

just have a go, for a moment.

why? what will be achieved?

with many things, they don’t have to achieve anything, there need be no objective.

how bipedal are you, beyond counting legs?

how mammal are you?

so why answer these questions then?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:47:07
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351323
Subject: re: a world built for men

A vehicle could also be designed with builtin exoskeleton assist for embarking disembarking.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:47:57
From: transition
ID: 1351324
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

ChrispenEvan said:

why? what will be achieved?

with many things, they don’t have to achieve anything, there need be no objective.

how bipedal are you, beyond counting legs?

how mammal are you?

so why answer these questions then?

nobody has a gun to your head.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:48:44
From: Divine Angel
ID: 1351325
Subject: re: a world built for men

I notice how men are still arguing the best things for women 🙄

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:50:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351326
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


A vehicle could also be designed with builtin exoskeleton assist for embarking disembarking.

New car seating, symmetrical seat-belts, exoskeleton assist would definitely require women at the design phrase and testing phrase.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:51:38
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351327
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


ChrispenEvan said:

transition said:

with many things, they don’t have to achieve anything, there need be no objective.

how bipedal are you, beyond counting legs?

how mammal are you?

so why answer these questions then?

nobody has a gun to your head.

LOL, so you get all defensive when someone doesn’t quite play by some arbitrary rules you make up? if you actually understood my post you would see that it is more a point of why do you ask this if there is no objective rather than whether there is a point in me answering if there is no objective.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:52:41
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351328
Subject: re: a world built for men

Divine Angel said:


I notice how men are still arguing the best things for women 🙄

i think it best if you girly brains just sat a listened and maybe learn something.

and yes i am seriously joking here.

:-)

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:54:27
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351329
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


Divine Angel said:

I notice how men are still arguing the best things for women 🙄

i think it best if you girly brains just sat a listened and maybe learn something.

and yes i am seriously joking here.

:-)

I also think a lot of money could be made designing power tools for women. and not just made of pink plastic.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 14:58:02
From: transition
ID: 1351330
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


transition said:

ChrispenEvan said:

so why answer these questions then?

nobody has a gun to your head.

LOL, so you get all defensive when someone doesn’t quite play by some arbitrary rules you make up? if you actually understood my post you would see that it is more a point of why do you ask this if there is no objective rather than whether there is a point in me answering if there is no objective.

I have in mind (also) alternate worlds in which I never posted in this thread, they’re equally real as this.

if you want to venture ideas about mammal denial, ideas related the possibility, that’s up to you.

you seem to have joined in.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:01:04
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351331
Subject: re: a world built for men

I kinda joined in pretty early in the thread.

why venture any ideas about mammal denial if there is no point?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:03:54
From: buffy
ID: 1351333
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Divine Angel said:

I notice how men are still arguing the best things for women 🙄

i think it best if you girly brains just sat a listened and maybe learn something.

and yes i am seriously joking here.

:-)

I also think a lot of money could be made designing power tools for women. and not just made of pink plastic.

Most definitely not just made of pink plastic. Purple is betterer….

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:16:01
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1351334
Subject: re: a world built for men

buffy said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

i think it best if you girly brains just sat a listened and maybe learn something.

and yes i am seriously joking here.

:-)

I also think a lot of money could be made designing power tools for women. and not just made of pink plastic.

Most definitely not just made of pink plastic. Purple is betterer….

Give ‘em the vote and now we’ve got purple chainsaws… it’s not right.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:16:24
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351335
Subject: re: a world built for men

another suggestion

An electric wheelchair that can become part of the vehicle as driver or passenger

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:22:28
From: buffy
ID: 1351337
Subject: re: a world built for men

Witty Rejoinder said:


buffy said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I also think a lot of money could be made designing power tools for women. and not just made of pink plastic.

Most definitely not just made of pink plastic. Purple is betterer….

Give ‘em the vote and now we’ve got purple chainsaws… it’s not right.

I thought you might get the reference…

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:48:29
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1351339
Subject: re: a world built for men

buffy said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

buffy said:

Most definitely not just made of pink plastic. Purple is betterer….

Give ‘em the vote and now we’ve got purple chainsaws… it’s not right.

I thought you might get the reference…

Flouro pink is probably a good colour for power tools so they don’t get left in grass or whatever.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:50:41
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1351341
Subject: re: a world built for men

Divine Angel said:


I notice how men are still arguing the best things for women 🙄

Seatbelts? Feel free to join.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 15:55:00
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1351342
Subject: re: a world built for men

My contribution to the seatbelt question, is that like children with a different body shape pregnant women need another solution. There are warnings already about the appropriate way for a pregnant woman to wear a seatbelt. Maybe a better solution is a seatbelt like material that when pregnant and after a certain period of pregnancy but be retro fitted to an existing seatbelt system that pads the straps and spreads the load with a netting type arrangement.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:00:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351344
Subject: re: a world built for men

Exoskeleton assist already exists with people with disabilities.

wheelchair access to vehicles in various designs already exists.

swivel seats already exist.

perhaps through development a very different steering wheel and seatbelt could be prototyped and tested for pregnant women.

Im sure a lot of pregnant women could come up with their own suggestions.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:01:30
From: Rule 303
ID: 1351346
Subject: re: a world built for men

Some very thoughtful and potentially important stuff there, SM. Thank you for posting.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:12:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351350
Subject: re: a world built for men

A symmetrical adjustable bra type seat belt with two lower side straps

With bra cups that can be custom made to order .

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:12:45
From: Ian
ID: 1351351
Subject: re: a world built for men

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Caroline Criado-Perez, activist feminist, has a new book to flog.

The Garud gets a piece of free “journalism” and click bait.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:15:29
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1351352
Subject: re: a world built for men

Ian said:


https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Caroline Criado-Perez, activist feminist, has a new book to flog.

The Garud gets a piece of free “journalism” and click bait.

You sound angry. Are you angry?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:19:44
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351353
Subject: re: a world built for men

Witty Rejoinder said:


Ian said:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Caroline Criado-Perez, activist feminist, has a new book to flog.

The Garud gets a piece of free “journalism” and click bait.

You sound angry. Are you angry?

luckily it is in the lifestyle section.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:19:56
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1351354
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


A symmetrical adjustable bra type seat belt with two lower side straps

With bra cups that can be custom made to order .

Why custom made? Bras come in different sizes you know, solutions don’t need over complications … or drones.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:21:50
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351355
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Ian said:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Caroline Criado-Perez, activist feminist, has a new book to flog.

The Garud gets a piece of free “journalism” and click bait.

You sound angry. Are you angry?

luckily it is in the lifestyle section.

and of course being a feminist activists damns you from the start.

what utter drivel for a view.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:23:08
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351356
Subject: re: a world built for men

Another suggestion

Voice assist for lights on off, any dash board control on or off, parking brake on /off, gear changes, mirror adjust, door open etc

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:24:27
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351358
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


Another suggestion

Voice assist for lights on off, any dash board control on or off, parking brake on /off, gear changes, mirror adjust, door open etc

just don’t have your sound system on.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:27:22
From: Ian
ID: 1351363
Subject: re: a world built for men

Witty Rejoinder said:


Ian said:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

Caroline Criado-Perez, activist feminist, has a new book to flog.

The Garud gets a piece of free “journalism” and click bait.

You sound angry. Are you angry?

I’m very fkn sore fizzical like.

Not angry.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:29:38
From: transition
ID: 1351364
Subject: re: a world built for men

something not right about that article, ignoring sex or gender, human size/and shape (strength and whatever too) varies with, amongst other things, age.

dunno’s got a bit of a slant right through it.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:31:08
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1351367
Subject: re: a world built for men

Some treadly bike fans, where is the Jayco bike race on SBS being filmed from?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:32:41
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1351370
Subject: re: a world built for men

I return you to your scheduled program.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:33:21
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351373
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


something not right about that article, ignoring sex or gender, human size/and shape (strength and whatever too) varies with, amongst other things, age.

dunno’s got a bit of a slant right through it.

yeah, a feminist activist wrote it.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:43:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351381
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


something not right about that article, ignoring sex or gender, human size/and shape (strength and whatever too) varies with, amongst other things, age.

dunno’s got a bit of a slant right through it.

Pregnant women come in all shapes and sizes.

reaching for car controls can become difficult

why I suggested voice assist

that already exists in some cars now

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:48:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351387
Subject: re: a world built for men

I have no problem with the idea of a his and hers seat belt

A new car could come with both with the option to remove one or the other or leave both there if you have a partner share a car.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 16:50:34
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351390
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


I have no problem with the idea of a his and hers seat belt

A new car could come with both with the option to remove one or the other or leave both there if you have a partner share a car.

It could open up a new accessory market in the car sector.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 17:06:00
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351400
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


transition said:

something not right about that article, ignoring sex or gender, human size/and shape (strength and whatever too) varies with, amongst other things, age.

dunno’s got a bit of a slant right through it.

Pregnant women come in all shapes and sizes.

reaching for car controls can become difficult

why I suggested voice assist

that already exists in some cars now

Article suggests when talking to voice recognition you should pretend to sound like a guy.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 17:10:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351403
Subject: re: a world built for men

sarahs mum said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

something not right about that article, ignoring sex or gender, human size/and shape (strength and whatever too) varies with, amongst other things, age.

dunno’s got a bit of a slant right through it.

Pregnant women come in all shapes and sizes.

reaching for car controls can become difficult

why I suggested voice assist

that already exists in some cars now

Article suggests when talking to voice recognition you should pretend to sound like a guy.

Gender of voice should not matter

There are already voice activated systems on smart phones and in other home voice activated devices

Those devices can accept either male or female voice commands.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 17:39:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351419
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Pregnant women come in all shapes and sizes.

reaching for car controls can become difficult

why I suggested voice assist

that already exists in some cars now

Article suggests when talking to voice recognition you should pretend to sound like a guy.

Gender of voice should not matter

There are already voice activated systems on smart phones and in other home voice activated devices

Those devices can accept either male or female voice commands.

There are two types of voice systems in cars.

Driver to car.

Car to driver.

Drivers should have options of either gender .

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 17:41:44
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1351423
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

sarahs mum said:

Article suggests when talking to voice recognition you should pretend to sound like a guy.

Gender of voice should not matter

There are already voice activated systems on smart phones and in other home voice activated devices

Those devices can accept either male or female voice commands.

There are two types of voice systems in cars.

Driver to car.

Car to driver.

Drivers should have options of either gender .

My option is don’t distract the driver with talk whilst car is in motion.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:32:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351447
Subject: re: a world built for men

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Gender of voice should not matter

There are already voice activated systems on smart phones and in other home voice activated devices

Those devices can accept either male or female voice commands.

There are two types of voice systems in cars.

Driver to car.

Car to driver.

Drivers should have options of either gender .

My option is don’t distract the driver with talk whilst car is in motion.

What about for things like setting blind spot activity?

An audible or visual alarm or none?
.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:37:07
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351448
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

There are two types of voice systems in cars.

Driver to car.

Car to driver.

Drivers should have options of either gender .

My option is don’t distract the driver with talk whilst car is in motion.

What about for things like setting blind spot activity?

An audible or visual alarm or none?
.

or set your mirrors correctly and not have a blind spot.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:39:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351449
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

My option is don’t distract the driver with talk whilst car is in motion.

What about for things like setting blind spot activity?

An audible or visual alarm or none?
.

or set your mirrors correctly and not have a blind spot.

Yes, there is that, but not all car mirrors are the same.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:41:33
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351452
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What about for things like setting blind spot activity?

An audible or visual alarm or none?
.

or set your mirrors correctly and not have a blind spot.

Yes, there is that, but not all car mirrors are the same.

what, you can’t adjust some?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:45:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1351457
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or set your mirrors correctly and not have a blind spot.

Yes, there is that, but not all car mirrors are the same.

what, you can’t adjust some?

I can but maybe some others cannot..

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:47:22
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351459
Subject: re: a world built for men

Tau.Neutrino said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes, there is that, but not all car mirrors are the same.

what, you can’t adjust some?

I can but maybe some others cannot..

why are they driving then?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 18:50:42
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351461
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

ChrispenEvan said:

what, you can’t adjust some?

I can but maybe some others cannot..

why are they driving then?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_monitor

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:04:47
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1351505
Subject: re: a world built for men

> It wasn’t until 2011 that the US started using a female crash-test dummy.

Mytybusters had one.

> “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed? I suspect that this is woman’s first attempt at a calendar.”

Fair enough. Obviously “man” is short for “mankind”.

> Why can’t a woman be more like a man?

That’s a joke. Not meant to bebtaken seriously.

> current offices are on average five degrees too cold for women

Not sexist, penny pinching. Notice how shopping centres are not too cold forbwomen.

> Men and women have different immune systems and hormones

No, yes. Women are no more susceptible to disease. Nothing to do with estrogen.

> women’s higher percentage of body fat

Not at my age. It’s the other way around.

> The effects of these mixing together are largely unknown.

I call this “arguing from ignorance”. “I don’t understand this” is not synonymous with “this is bad”. it’s synonymous with “I’m too lazy to find out about it”.

> it’s a safe bet to attribute at least some of the blame to “standard” construction site equipment being designed around the male body.

As a male, I very frequently find that I can’t use equipment, because the “males” it’s designed for are Asian males, smaller than the average height of an Australian woman.

> a bag of cement. It’s a comfortable weight for a man to lift

A good point. Too heavy for children, too. And for unfit males like me. My daughter can lift heavier weights than I can.

> it may seem fair and equitable to accord male and female public toilets the same amount of space

I agree, it can be, and certainly is at low usage rates. At higher usage rates, more space for women is a must. Sometimes, womens toilets are more accessible.

> those with larger hands, and those with smaller hands. Donison was writing as a male pianist.

Piano pieces are these days written for small hands. This wasn’t always true. Flexibility of fingers matters too. Again, although my daughter has a much smaller hand than me, her added flexibility means that she has the same span on the piano, and her much thinner fingers make it much easier for her to play violin than a man.

Overall, i’m not overly impressed with this article. It has some valid points, but the examples it uses to support its point of view are faulty arguments more often than not.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:12:30
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351508
Subject: re: a world built for men

mollwollfumble said:


> It wasn’t until 2011 that the US started using a female crash-test dummy.

Mytybusters had one.

> “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed? I suspect that this is woman’s first attempt at a calendar.”

Fair enough. Obviously “man” is short for “mankind”.

> Why can’t a woman be more like a man?

That’s a joke. Not meant to bebtaken seriously.

> current offices are on average five degrees too cold for women

Not sexist, penny pinching. Notice how shopping centres are not too cold forbwomen.

> Men and women have different immune systems and hormones

No, yes. Women are no more susceptible to disease. Nothing to do with estrogen.

> women’s higher percentage of body fat

Not at my age. It’s the other way around.

> The effects of these mixing together are largely unknown.

I call this “arguing from ignorance”. “I don’t understand this” is not synonymous with “this is bad”. it’s synonymous with “I’m too lazy to find out about it”.

> it’s a safe bet to attribute at least some of the blame to “standard” construction site equipment being designed around the male body.

As a male, I very frequently find that I can’t use equipment, because the “males” it’s designed for are Asian males, smaller than the average height of an Australian woman.

> a bag of cement. It’s a comfortable weight for a man to lift

A good point. Too heavy for children, too. And for unfit males like me. My daughter can lift heavier weights than I can.

> it may seem fair and equitable to accord male and female public toilets the same amount of space

I agree, it can be, and certainly is at low usage rates. At higher usage rates, more space for women is a must. Sometimes, womens toilets are more accessible.

> those with larger hands, and those with smaller hands. Donison was writing as a male pianist.

Piano pieces are these days written for small hands. This wasn’t always true. Flexibility of fingers matters too. Again, although my daughter has a much smaller hand than me, her added flexibility means that she has the same span on the piano, and her much thinner fingers make it much easier for her to play violin than a man.

Overall, i’m not overly impressed with this article. It has some valid points, but the examples it uses to support its point of view are faulty arguments more often than not.

mythbusters female CTD was based on what figures? This is covered in the article.

Man for mankind doesn’t parse, so fail.

Yeah cos sexists comments can always be passed off as “just a joke”.

hardly pennypinching when it would cost more to cool to a lower temp.

can’t be bothered going on. Just another male with fuck all idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:18:31
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1351510
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


mollwollfumble said:

> It wasn’t until 2011 that the US started using a female crash-test dummy.

Mytybusters had one.

> “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed? I suspect that this is woman’s first attempt at a calendar.”

Fair enough. Obviously “man” is short for “mankind”.

> Why can’t a woman be more like a man?

That’s a joke. Not meant to bebtaken seriously.

> current offices are on average five degrees too cold for women

Not sexist, penny pinching. Notice how shopping centres are not too cold forbwomen.

> Men and women have different immune systems and hormones

No, yes. Women are no more susceptible to disease. Nothing to do with estrogen.

> women’s higher percentage of body fat

Not at my age. It’s the other way around.

> The effects of these mixing together are largely unknown.

I call this “arguing from ignorance”. “I don’t understand this” is not synonymous with “this is bad”. it’s synonymous with “I’m too lazy to find out about it”.

> it’s a safe bet to attribute at least some of the blame to “standard” construction site equipment being designed around the male body.

As a male, I very frequently find that I can’t use equipment, because the “males” it’s designed for are Asian males, smaller than the average height of an Australian woman.

> a bag of cement. It’s a comfortable weight for a man to lift

A good point. Too heavy for children, too. And for unfit males like me. My daughter can lift heavier weights than I can.

> it may seem fair and equitable to accord male and female public toilets the same amount of space

I agree, it can be, and certainly is at low usage rates. At higher usage rates, more space for women is a must. Sometimes, womens toilets are more accessible.

> those with larger hands, and those with smaller hands. Donison was writing as a male pianist.

Piano pieces are these days written for small hands. This wasn’t always true. Flexibility of fingers matters too. Again, although my daughter has a much smaller hand than me, her added flexibility means that she has the same span on the piano, and her much thinner fingers make it much easier for her to play violin than a man.

Overall, i’m not overly impressed with this article. It has some valid points, but the examples it uses to support its point of view are faulty arguments more often than not.

mythbusters female CTD was based on what figures? This is covered in the article.

Man for mankind doesn’t parse, so fail.

Yeah cos sexists comments can always be passed off as “just a joke”.

hardly pennypinching when it would cost more to cool to a lower temp.

can’t be bothered going on. Just another male with fuck all idea.

It was a Sunday piece. No news to report on, but a blank space in the paper /website, and the editor wanted something with the journo’s name on it (“we’re paying you by the week, write something, for chrissake’). Not meant to be taken at all seriously, need have no basis in reality.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:23:58
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351512
Subject: re: a world built for men

current offices are on average five degrees too cold for women

Not sexist, penny pinching. Notice how shopping centres are not too cold forbwomen.
——-

I remember doing rotating shift in mainframe computer rooms where I froze. I’d be wearing a beanie and coat in summer.

Yes. I will wear extra clothes in a shopping centre.

I grabbed a cardigan to go to see Les Mis a few weeks back even though it was a hot day.. But it was an old theatre and I sweated through the whole thing.

And then there were the problems sleeping with a husband when I desired blankets and he desired ripping them off the bed.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:25:14
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351513
Subject: re: a world built for men

captain_spalding said:


ChrispenEvan said:

mollwollfumble said:

> It wasn’t until 2011 that the US started using a female crash-test dummy.

Mytybusters had one.

> “what man needs to know when 28 days have passed? I suspect that this is woman’s first attempt at a calendar.”

Fair enough. Obviously “man” is short for “mankind”.

> Why can’t a woman be more like a man?

That’s a joke. Not meant to bebtaken seriously.

> current offices are on average five degrees too cold for women

Not sexist, penny pinching. Notice how shopping centres are not too cold forbwomen.

> Men and women have different immune systems and hormones

No, yes. Women are no more susceptible to disease. Nothing to do with estrogen.

> women’s higher percentage of body fat

Not at my age. It’s the other way around.

> The effects of these mixing together are largely unknown.

I call this “arguing from ignorance”. “I don’t understand this” is not synonymous with “this is bad”. it’s synonymous with “I’m too lazy to find out about it”.

> it’s a safe bet to attribute at least some of the blame to “standard” construction site equipment being designed around the male body.

As a male, I very frequently find that I can’t use equipment, because the “males” it’s designed for are Asian males, smaller than the average height of an Australian woman.

> a bag of cement. It’s a comfortable weight for a man to lift

A good point. Too heavy for children, too. And for unfit males like me. My daughter can lift heavier weights than I can.

> it may seem fair and equitable to accord male and female public toilets the same amount of space

I agree, it can be, and certainly is at low usage rates. At higher usage rates, more space for women is a must. Sometimes, womens toilets are more accessible.

> those with larger hands, and those with smaller hands. Donison was writing as a male pianist.

Piano pieces are these days written for small hands. This wasn’t always true. Flexibility of fingers matters too. Again, although my daughter has a much smaller hand than me, her added flexibility means that she has the same span on the piano, and her much thinner fingers make it much easier for her to play violin than a man.

Overall, i’m not overly impressed with this article. It has some valid points, but the examples it uses to support its point of view are faulty arguments more often than not.

mythbusters female CTD was based on what figures? This is covered in the article.

Man for mankind doesn’t parse, so fail.

Yeah cos sexists comments can always be passed off as “just a joke”.

hardly pennypinching when it would cost more to cool to a lower temp.

can’t be bothered going on. Just another male with fuck all idea.

It was a Sunday piece. No news to report on, but a blank space in the paper /website, and the editor wanted something with the journo’s name on it (“we’re paying you by the week, write something, for chrissake’). Not meant to be taken at all seriously, need have no basis in reality.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 19.59 AEDT

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:27:34
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351514
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


captain_spalding said:

ChrispenEvan said:

mythbusters female CTD was based on what figures? This is covered in the article.

Man for mankind doesn’t parse, so fail.

Yeah cos sexists comments can always be passed off as “just a joke”.

hardly pennypinching when it would cost more to cool to a lower temp.

can’t be bothered going on. Just another male with fuck all idea.

It was a Sunday piece. No news to report on, but a blank space in the paper /website, and the editor wanted something with the journo’s name on it (“we’re paying you by the week, write something, for chrissake’). Not meant to be taken at all seriously, need have no basis in reality.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 19.59 AEDT

Caroline Criado-Perez is a freelance journalist, feminist campaigner and co-founder of The Women’s Room. She is also founder of the Week Woman blog and has written for publications including the New Statesman, and The Huffington Post

Sooooo basically wrong on all points. well done, fail.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:27:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1351515
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:

Sat 23 Feb 2019 19.59 AEDT

Call it a ‘weekend piece’ then. Same situation. 19:59 AEDT is a good write-it-Saturday-for-publication-Sunday time, so it still fits as a Sunday piece, anyway.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:28:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1351516
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

It was a Sunday piece. No news to report on, but a blank space in the paper /website, and the editor wanted something with the journo’s name on it (“we’re paying you by the week, write something, for chrissake’). Not meant to be taken at all seriously, need have no basis in reality.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 19.59 AEDT

Caroline Criado-Perez is a freelance journalist, feminist campaigner and co-founder of The Women’s Room. She is also founder of the Week Woman blog and has written for publications including the New Statesman, and The Huffington Post

Sooooo basically wrong on all points. well done, fail.

Oh, the Huff, well, why didn’t you say so, unimpeachable, that.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:31:24
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351517
Subject: re: a world built for men

captain_spalding said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Sat 23 Feb 2019 19.59 AEDT

Caroline Criado-Perez is a freelance journalist, feminist campaigner and co-founder of The Women’s Room. She is also founder of the Week Woman blog and has written for publications including the New Statesman, and The Huffington Post

Sooooo basically wrong on all points. well done, fail.

Oh, the Huff, well, why didn’t you say so, unimpeachable, that.

bloody hell, that goalpost nearly took my head off it was moving so fast

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:33:49
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1351518
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


captain_spalding said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Caroline Criado-Perez is a freelance journalist, feminist campaigner and co-founder of The Women’s Room. She is also founder of the Week Woman blog and has written for publications including the New Statesman, and The Huffington Post

Sooooo basically wrong on all points. well done, fail.

Oh, the Huff, well, why didn’t you say so, unimpeachable, that.

bloody hell, that goalpost nearly took my head off it was moving so fast

Fact remains that it’s the weekend. If Kim Jong-Un wasn’t tucked up in his train, and Donald Trump offline and plugged into his charger, and if Scott Morrison had managed to put his foot in his mouth again, no-one would have wasted the electrons in relaying the piece.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:36:44
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1351519
Subject: re: a world built for men

captain_spalding said:


ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

Oh, the Huff, well, why didn’t you say so, unimpeachable, that.

bloody hell, that goalpost nearly took my head off it was moving so fast

Fact remains that it’s the weekend. If Kim Jong-Un wasn’t tucked up in his train, and Donald Trump offline and plugged into his charger, and if Scott Morrison had managed to put his foot in his mouth again, no-one would have wasted the electrons in relaying the piece.

But I did.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:39:33
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1351520
Subject: re: a world built for men

sarahs mum said:


captain_spalding said:

ChrispenEvan said:

bloody hell, that goalpost nearly took my head off it was moving so fast

Fact remains that it’s the weekend. If Kim Jong-Un wasn’t tucked up in his train, and Donald Trump offline and plugged into his charger, and if Scott Morrison had managed to put his foot in his mouth again, no-one would have wasted the electrons in relaying the piece.

But I did.

I think he put his itchy nickers on today. Probably to pay off a penance.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:41:00
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1351521
Subject: re: a world built for men

captain_spalding said:


ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

Oh, the Huff, well, why didn’t you say so, unimpeachable, that.

bloody hell, that goalpost nearly took my head off it was moving so fast

Fact remains that it’s the weekend. If Kim Jong-Un wasn’t tucked up in his train, and Donald Trump offline and plugged into his charger, and if Scott Morrison had managed to put his foot in his mouth again, no-one would have wasted the electrons in relaying the piece.

and yet the w/e papers are always the biggest. fail again.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:47:15
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1351523
Subject: re: a world built for men

ChrispenEvan said:


captain_spalding said:

ChrispenEvan said:

bloody hell, that goalpost nearly took my head off it was moving so fast

Fact remains that it’s the weekend. If Kim Jong-Un wasn’t tucked up in his train, and Donald Trump offline and plugged into his charger, and if Scott Morrison had managed to put his foot in his mouth again, no-one would have wasted the electrons in relaying the piece.

and yet the w/e papers are always the biggest. fail again.

Ever counted the percentage of ads, puff-pieces, and sport in a w/e paper vs. the percentage of news? Take them out, and you’re left with Tuesday’s paper.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2019 21:49:27
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1351524
Subject: re: a world built for men

PermeateFree said:

I think he put his itchy nickers on today. Probably to pay off a penance.

My sins are my own. They belong to me.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2019 00:11:15
From: transition
ID: 1351553
Subject: re: a world built for men

>One woman found her car’s voice-command system only listened to her husband, even though he was in the passenger seat.

reading bits of it again, with my humor module turned on

chuckle

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2019 00:50:00
From: transition
ID: 1351556
Subject: re: a world built for men

here’s an idea, regard ultimate responsibility.

take anything, thinking random here, buildings, vehicles, kids toys, roads, bridges, rockets, satellites, the design of, building/manufacture of too, etc, for example, who bears greater responsibility for such things, something nearer ultimate responsibility if they aren’t good enough in some way.

if you want do separate, like categories for males and females, extract generalizations from, consider the distribution of responsibility. I reckon men carry a lot.

if a bridge collapses good chance a man will come to mind.

if an airbag turns out to have a dangerous fault good chance a man will be imagined as the designer/engineer.

if your flatpack furniture doesn’t fit together easy good chance a man will be conjured, possibly secretly.

when the space shuttle exploded that was errors by men. Few would have wondered what lady would be taking responsibility for not taking enough notice of the minimum safe temperatures of the o-rings on the solid fuel booster rockets.

when the electricity goes out, you know it’s probably a mans fault. They built most of it, and repair most of it.

if the internet’s not fast enough it’s probably mens fault, they likely dominate decisions regard.

ultimate responsibility’s not a bad thing, that’s not what i’m saying, it’s not a complaint.

if your toilet seriously blocks up good chance you have in mind a male plumber to sort that for you, a shit job.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2019 06:34:18
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1351566
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


here’s an idea, regard ultimate responsibility.

take anything, thinking random here, buildings, vehicles, kids toys, roads, bridges, rockets, satellites, the design of, building/manufacture of too, etc, for example, who bears greater responsibility for such things, something nearer ultimate responsibility if they aren’t good enough in some way.

if you want do separate, like categories for males and females, extract generalizations from, consider the distribution of responsibility. I reckon men carry a lot.

if a bridge collapses good chance a man will come to mind.

if an airbag turns out to have a dangerous fault good chance a man will be imagined as the designer/engineer.

if your flatpack furniture doesn’t fit together easy good chance a man will be conjured, possibly secretly.

when the space shuttle exploded that was errors by men. Few would have wondered what lady would be taking responsibility for not taking enough notice of the minimum safe temperatures of the o-rings on the solid fuel booster rockets.

when the electricity goes out, you know it’s probably a mans fault. They built most of it, and repair most of it.

if the internet’s not fast enough it’s probably mens fault, they likely dominate decisions regard.

ultimate responsibility’s not a bad thing, that’s not what i’m saying, it’s not a complaint.

if your toilet seriously blocks up good chance you have in mind a male plumber to sort that for you, a shit job.

Well put. Gender stereotypes are more pervasive than many people suspect, me for instance.

We need a stereotype for “person of irrelevant gender”. An expansion perhaps of the name people choose to use on the internet into a full 3-D non-gendered image.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2019 10:50:43
From: transition
ID: 1351625
Subject: re: a world built for men

>Gender stereotypes are more pervasive than many people suspect

stereotypes are powerful things, inhabit peoples minds like best friends, looking for work, easy work.

hut nah examples I gave are more related practicalities, realities, for starters perfect gender balance is unlikely.

men do and have done their share of shit work, and an important part of shit work is ultimate responsibility.

while the extreme feminists are thinking the world, from the socially constructed reality, projections of minds, they may forget that most of the universe is politically neutral, and isn’t in a rage about injustice.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2019 11:30:23
From: Cymek
ID: 1351633
Subject: re: a world built for men

Women should feel aggrieved less so than in the past but it still continues the inequality for no good reason.
Not just women but most humans in general should feel angry it verges on conspiracy but entire societies are set up to exploit people and that’s the supposed democratic societies. For example in the USA you create an underclass (black people, other non whites, poor white people) and deny them basic rights and then offer them a lie about something better and get them to join the military, then die for stupid old men wars and then come back and get shafted.

I found the bit about religion rising us above base desires amusing, religion is a means of social control and to keep people ignorant and to accept a crap life as you’ll die and get something better

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2019 11:50:22
From: transition
ID: 1351635
Subject: re: a world built for men

>I found the bit about religion rising us above base desires amusing, religion is a means of social control and to keep people ignorant and to accept a crap life as you’ll die and get something better

it was meant to amuse, a can opener, so to speak.

the intention though is transformation of the primitive (moral elevation, thought of favorably)

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 12:04:42
From: transition
ID: 1352026
Subject: re: a world built for men

there’s has got to be some compensation in men being built for women, surely

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 12:10:03
From: transition
ID: 1352029
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


there has got to be some compensation in men being built for women, surely

good question for feminists, of bio-history, and culture

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 12:12:30
From: Cymek
ID: 1352031
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


there’s has got to be some compensation in men being built for women, surely

What do you mean ?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 12:16:19
From: transition
ID: 1352032
Subject: re: a world built for men

Cymek said:


transition said:

there’s has got to be some compensation in men being built for women, surely

What do you mean ?

think about it.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 12:30:19
From: transition
ID: 1352047
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


transition said:

there has got to be some compensation in men being built for women, surely

good question for feminists, of bio-history, and culture

I mean you could be persuaded nothing of men evolved (culture included) that served ladies interests (built for).

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 12:46:40
From: transition
ID: 1352063
Subject: re: a world built for men

transition said:


transition said:

transition said:

there has got to be some compensation in men being built for women, surely

good question for feminists, of bio-history, and culture

I mean you could be persuaded nothing of men evolved (culture included) that served ladies interests (built for).

there was time a woman wanted big strong boys that grew into big strong men that could carry bricks and bags of cement, now the argument is the men have alienated the ladies by making bricks and bags of cement too big.

Reply Quote