“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
sarahs mum said:
“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
It simply cannot go on. Big changes have been happening for too long. I haven’t had the moths at the back door for a few years now.
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
It simply cannot go on. Big changes have been happening for too long. I haven’t had the moths at the back door for a few years now.
There was a time when some of them went astray following the bright lights of Newcastle, Sydney and Canberra. But losing the all… :(
(I am having less moths here too in my rainforest. But Tassie isn’t as mothy as NSW was. The big flappy moths haven’t been seen this year.)
Hey Zeuss!
That’s bloody disturbing.
sarahs mum said:
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
It simply cannot go on. Big changes have been happening for too long. I haven’t had the moths at the back door for a few years now.
There was a time when some of them went astray following the bright lights of Newcastle, Sydney and Canberra. But losing the all… :(
(I am having less moths here too in my rainforest. But Tassie isn’t as mothy as NSW was. The big flappy moths haven’t been seen this year.)
The rain moths? They are still waiting for the rain to tap on the ground and wake them up. April-ish.
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/hepi/atripalpis.html
kryten said:
sarahs mum said:
roughbarked said:It simply cannot go on. Big changes have been happening for too long. I haven’t had the moths at the back door for a few years now.
There was a time when some of them went astray following the bright lights of Newcastle, Sydney and Canberra. But losing the all… :(
(I am having less moths here too in my rainforest. But Tassie isn’t as mothy as NSW was. The big flappy moths haven’t been seen this year.)
The rain moths? They are still waiting for the rain to tap on the ground and wake them up. April-ish.
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/hepi/atripalpis.html
Ta. I’ll wait till May to write them off.
kryten said:
sarahs mum said:
roughbarked said:It simply cannot go on. Big changes have been happening for too long. I haven’t had the moths at the back door for a few years now.
There was a time when some of them went astray following the bright lights of Newcastle, Sydney and Canberra. But losing the all… :(
(I am having less moths here too in my rainforest. But Tassie isn’t as mothy as NSW was. The big flappy moths haven’t been seen this year.)
The rain moths? They are still waiting for the rain to tap on the ground and wake them up. April-ish.
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/hepi/atripalpis.html
No, a different species.
Agrotis infusa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogong_moth
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/noct/infusa.html
Michael V said:
kryten said:
sarahs mum said:There was a time when some of them went astray following the bright lights of Newcastle, Sydney and Canberra. But losing the all… :(
(I am having less moths here too in my rainforest. But Tassie isn’t as mothy as NSW was. The big flappy moths haven’t been seen this year.)
The rain moths? They are still waiting for the rain to tap on the ground and wake them up. April-ish.
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/hepi/atripalpis.html
No, a different species.
Agrotis infusa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogong_moth
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/noct/infusa.html
https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:54b867e9-2d2c-49fb-bcb1-647a6a6a64e8#gallery
sarahs mum said:
“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
That’s terrible. There were very many in Marysville two years ago.
They are extremely strongly attracted by artificial lights. Which would destroy their migration routes. I’ve been warning about the environmental dangers of house lighting for years.
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:
“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
That’s terrible. There were very many in Marysville two years ago.
They are extremely strongly attracted by artificial lights. Which would destroy their migration routes. I’ve been warning about the environmental dangers of house lighting for years.
Yes they certainly were disturbed by ever brightening Melbourne.
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’
Yes and it is largely water that is the missing ingredient but it has been so hot and dry for so long that I’d reckon the resources for regeneration are at a very low ebb. Even Eucalypts are not so capable of hydrating Koalas.
roughbarked said:
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:
“They haven’t just declined. They’ve gone,” he said. “We have done mountains from down to the Victorian border all the way to Canberra. We have checked every cave we know.”https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/25/decline-in-bogong-moth-numbers-leaves-pygmy-mountain-possums-starving
That’s terrible. There were very many in Marysville two years ago.
They are extremely strongly attracted by artificial lights. Which would destroy their migration routes. I’ve been warning about the environmental dangers of house lighting for years.
Yes they certainly were disturbed by ever brightening Melbourne.
It wasn’t only that their migration routes were changing. It was also that they weren’t breeding.
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’
Who said anything about big citys, it only takes one houee close to a migration route that keeps its lights on all night.
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’Yes and it is largely water that is the missing ingredient but it has been so hot and dry for so long that I’d reckon the resources for regeneration are at a very low ebb. Even Eucalypts are not so capable of hydrating Koalas.
I meant internationally when I said ‘all over’.
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’Who said anything about big citys, it only takes one houee close to a migration route that keeps its lights on all night.
I know but in the case of the big city it took virtually all the moths to a completely different fate.
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’Who said anything about big citys, it only takes one houee close to a migration route that keeps its lights on all night.
They starve to death.
sarahs mum said:
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’Yes and it is largely water that is the missing ingredient but it has been so hot and dry for so long that I’d reckon the resources for regeneration are at a very low ebb. Even Eucalypts are not so capable of hydrating Koalas.
I meant internationally when I said ‘all over’.
And I’ve heard thaht too and it is also related to changing climates and man made changes. Agriculture on the broad scale has a lot to answer for. We aren’t doing agriculture to feed the people anymore. Most of it ends up at the local tip.
The recent decline in bugs that fly, crawl, burrow and skitter across still water is part of a gathering “mass extinction,” only the sixth in the last half-billion years.
“We are witnessing the largest extinction event on Earth since the late Permian and Cretaceous periods,” the authors noted.
The Permian end-game 252 million years ago snuffed out more than 90 percent of the planet’s life forms, while the abrupt finale of the Cretaceous 66 million years ago saw the demise of land dinosaurs.
“We estimate the current proportion of insect species in decline — 41 percent — to be twice as high as that of vertebrates,” or animals with a backbone, Francisco Sanchez-Bayo of the University of Sydney and Kris Wyckhuys of the University of Queensland in Australia reported.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-catastrophic-collapse-of-nature
mollwollfumble said:
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:
I think this more than just the big city lights. This is more in the league of recent reports from all over saying, ‘where have all the insects gone?’Who said anything about big citys, it only takes one houee close to a migration route that keeps its lights on all night.
They starve to death.
If you are talking about at my back door then there’d have to be millions of houses the same as mine.
sarahs mum said:
The recent decline in bugs that fly, crawl, burrow and skitter across still water is part of a gathering “mass extinction,” only the sixth in the last half-billion years.“We are witnessing the largest extinction event on Earth since the late Permian and Cretaceous periods,” the authors noted.
The Permian end-game 252 million years ago snuffed out more than 90 percent of the planet’s life forms, while the abrupt finale of the Cretaceous 66 million years ago saw the demise of land dinosaurs.
“We estimate the current proportion of insect species in decline — 41 percent — to be twice as high as that of vertebrates,” or animals with a backbone, Francisco Sanchez-Bayo of the University of Sydney and Kris Wyckhuys of the University of Queensland in Australia reported.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-catastrophic-collapse-of-nature
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
The recent decline in bugs that fly, crawl, burrow and skitter across still water is part of a gathering “mass extinction,” only the sixth in the last half-billion years.“We are witnessing the largest extinction event on Earth since the late Permian and Cretaceous periods,” the authors noted.
The Permian end-game 252 million years ago snuffed out more than 90 percent of the planet’s life forms, while the abrupt finale of the Cretaceous 66 million years ago saw the demise of land dinosaurs.
“We estimate the current proportion of insect species in decline — 41 percent — to be twice as high as that of vertebrates,” or animals with a backbone, Francisco Sanchez-Bayo of the University of Sydney and Kris Wyckhuys of the University of Queensland in Australia reported.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-catastrophic-collapse-of-nature
It is certainly bigger than Einstein’s bee theory.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/27/einstein-bees/
ChrispenEvan said:
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
The recent decline in bugs that fly, crawl, burrow and skitter across still water is part of a gathering “mass extinction,” only the sixth in the last half-billion years.“We are witnessing the largest extinction event on Earth since the late Permian and Cretaceous periods,” the authors noted.
The Permian end-game 252 million years ago snuffed out more than 90 percent of the planet’s life forms, while the abrupt finale of the Cretaceous 66 million years ago saw the demise of land dinosaurs.
“We estimate the current proportion of insect species in decline — 41 percent — to be twice as high as that of vertebrates,” or animals with a backbone, Francisco Sanchez-Bayo of the University of Sydney and Kris Wyckhuys of the University of Queensland in Australia reported.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-catastrophic-collapse-of-nature
It is certainly bigger than Einstein’s bee theory.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/27/einstein-bees/
yep.
read that, well written, educational.
Michael V said:
Michael V said:
kryten said:The rain moths? They are still waiting for the rain to tap on the ground and wake them up. April-ish.
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/hepi/atripalpis.html
No, a different species.
Agrotis infusa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogong_moth
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/noct/infusa.html
https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:54b867e9-2d2c-49fb-bcb1-647a6a6a64e8#gallery
I was referring to sm’s moths, which are probably not Bogong moths.
buffy said:
Michael V said:
Michael V said:No, a different species.
Agrotis infusa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogong_moth
http://lepidoptera.butterflyhouse.com.au/noct/infusa.html
https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:54b867e9-2d2c-49fb-bcb1-647a6a6a64e8#gallery
I was referring to sm’s moths, which are probably not Bogong moths.
Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
ChrispenEvan said:
roughbarked said:
sarahs mum said:
The recent decline in bugs that fly, crawl, burrow and skitter across still water is part of a gathering “mass extinction,” only the sixth in the last half-billion years.“We are witnessing the largest extinction event on Earth since the late Permian and Cretaceous periods,” the authors noted.
The Permian end-game 252 million years ago snuffed out more than 90 percent of the planet’s life forms, while the abrupt finale of the Cretaceous 66 million years ago saw the demise of land dinosaurs.
“We estimate the current proportion of insect species in decline — 41 percent — to be twice as high as that of vertebrates,” or animals with a backbone, Francisco Sanchez-Bayo of the University of Sydney and Kris Wyckhuys of the University of Queensland in Australia reported.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-catastrophic-collapse-of-nature
It is certainly bigger than Einstein’s bee theory.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/08/27/einstein-bees/
“Maurice Maeterlinck”. Huh. I acted in a play of his put on by the Drama Department, UNE, many years ago. The Blind.
Michael V said:
buffy said:
Michael V said:https://bie.ala.org.au/species/urn:lsid:biodiversity.org.au:afd.taxon:54b867e9-2d2c-49fb-bcb1-647a6a6a64e8#gallery
I was referring to sm’s moths, which are probably not Bogong moths.
Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
buffy said:
Michael V said:
buffy said:I was referring to sm’s moths, which are probably not Bogong moths.
Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
I thought they were Snowy Mountains critters.
Good riddance, they were a pain in the arse in Canberra.
Just a joke before outrage buses are boarded. But they were not insignificant in their effects, you knew when they were around. You only leave a door or window open with a light on inside once.
If they have dissapeared that’s a very sad thing. Used to be a discussion piece back in my day, having a dinner party and moths banging at your window.
buffy said:
Michael V said:
buffy said:I was referring to sm’s moths, which are probably not Bogong moths.
Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
Interestingly the bie.ala site I quoted earlier shows records in Tasmania.
Michael V said:
buffy said:
Michael V said:Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
Interestingly the bie.ala site I quoted earlier shows records in Tasmania.
Perhaps I should follow some links…
AwesomeO said:
Good riddance, they were a pain in the arse in Canberra.Just a joke before outrage buses are boarded. But they were not insignificant in their effects, you knew when they were around. You only leave a door or window open with a light on inside once.
If they have dissapeared that’s a very sad thing. Used to be a discussion piece back in my day, having a dinner party and moths banging at your window.
When I was a teen in Sydney (North Curl Curl) there were huge swarms of them every year for several days. I thought it amazing.
I see they have been recorded in Tasmania. But I think sm is probably talking about the rain moths. They are similar in the way they bash at the windows and walls. The forum taught me about them some years ago when I noticed them flopping about on the roads one year. I now recognize the rain moths and I often see their casings.
Ah, this would be a rain moth, I think. Taken here at Penshurst in 2007.
buffy said:
I see they have been recorded in Tasmania. But I think sm is probably talking about the rain moths. They are similar in the way they bash at the windows and walls. The forum taught me about them some years ago when I noticed them flopping about on the roads one year. I now recognize the rain moths and I often see their casings.
I think I am talking about rain moths too.
Interestingly, also recorded in Western Australia, including 5 records in or near Perth.
Saw ScoMo on 7:30 Report, trying to dodge direct questions about climate change and Australia’s future. I had to leave part-way through, but you could see that every fibre of his being was striving to find some way to blame Labor.
Bogong Moth
Scientific name: Agrotis infusa
Alternative name/s:
The larvae are known as Black Cutworms.
Fast Facts
Classification Species infusa Genus Agrotis Subfamily Noctuinae Family Noctuidae Super Family Noctuoidea Order Lepidoptera Class Insecta Subphylum Uniramia Phylum Arthopoda Kingdom Animalia Size Range 5 cmIntroduction
Bogong Moths belong to the Family Noctuidae and are well known in south-eastern Australia for their mass migration in spring. In some years, they have descended upon cities such as Sydney and Canberra in their thousands, causing disruption around outdoor sports grounds and to air-conditioning plants.
Identification
The Bogong Moth is native to Australia. The common name comes from Bogong High Plains region in the Victorian Alps, which is one of the sites where the adult moths congregate in huge numbers over the summer months.
Habitat
Bogong Moths live in urban areas, forests and woodlands.
Distribution
Bogong Mouths are found in southern Australia, including Tasmania. Occasionally found in New Zealand and Norfolk Island.
Seasonality
During winter, Bogongs feed inland as black cutworms on seedlings of wide-leafed plants in an area ranging from southern Queensland to South Australia. During spring, they fly south to south-eastwards, to high altitude regions in the southern part of the Dividing Range, where they remain inactive (aestivation) throughout the summer months. They are sometimes blown towards the coast by westerly winds and may enter houses as they are attracted to light. Over summer, adults congregate in rock crevices in massive numbers and remain dormant, living off their fat reserves. They then migrate north to breed as their larvae can’t tolerate cold conditions.
Feeding and diet
The larvae of Bogong Moths (“black cutworms”) feed on seedlings of wide-leafed plants in inland regions of Australia.
Conservation status
Recently concern has mounted about arsenic levels in the Bogong Moths. The arsenic is present at low levels in the soil of their larval pasturelands and is stored in the body of the adult moth. When the moths die off in their caves, the arsenic leaches from their bodies into the local soil. The arsenic becomes concentrated because of the build-up of dead moths on the floor of the cave over many years. The arsenic could potentially adversely affect their predators, including the Mountain Pygmy Possum, but this has not yet been fully demonstrated.
Economic impacts
Aborigines had a good knowledge and understanding of the habits of the Bogong Moth. They roasted the highly nutritious moths in hot ashes and mashed the bodies to make ‘moth meat’, which is said to have a nutty taste. The mountain caves where the adults aestivate were known to Aboriginal people, who used the moths as an important source of protein.
Caterpillars of the Bogong Moth are known as cutworms and are considered an agricultural pest, causing significant damage to crops.
https://australianmuseum.net.au/learn/animals/insects/bogong-moth/
I just want to say that this is horrifically bad news.
Worse than the passenger pigeon. Very much worse. The passenger pigeon was never a keystone species.
People talk about keystone species. 99% of the time, what they claim to be a keystone species isn’t.
But even I, who am not at all familiar with Australia’s invertebrate ecology. Even i know that the bogong moth is a keystone species. In addition to some mammals, some Australian frogs rely on the bogong moth as a source of food, and many Australian microbats do. I’ve seen both frogs and microbats feasting on bogong moths.
We’ll be damn lucky if the loss of the bogong moth only drives a few Australian vertebrate species to extinction.
I thought that it was a massive oversight for the IUCN to exclude all insects from its red book. This proves it in the worst possible way.
buffy said:
Michael V said:
buffy said:I was referring to sm’s moths, which are probably not Bogong moths.
Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
That’s about right.
roughbarked said:
buffy said:
Michael V said:Ah, sorry I misinterpreted your meaning.
That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
That’s about right.
The common name comes from Bogong High Plains region in the Victorian Alps, which is one of the sites where the adult moths congregate in huge numbers over the summer months.
sarahs mum said:
buffy said:
I see they have been recorded in Tasmania. But I think sm is probably talking about the rain moths. They are similar in the way they bash at the windows and walls. The forum taught me about them some years ago when I noticed them flopping about on the roads one year. I now recognize the rain moths and I often see their casings.
I think I am talking about rain moths too.
Well, they all need rain.
sarahs mum said:
roughbarked said:
buffy said:That’s fine. I probably wasn’t quite clear. I’m pretty sure the Bogongs don’t come further South than about Canberra.
That’s about right.
The common name comes from Bogong High Plains region in the Victorian Alps, which is one of the sites where the adult moths congregate in huge numbers over the summer months.
Yes.
Michael V said:
Interestingly, also recorded in Western Australia, including 5 records in or near Perth.
They do cover the whole of southern Australia at least. The inference though was that this would be starving the pigmy possums because their diet is rather unique.
hello
monkey skipper said:
hello
You say hello.
sarahs mum said:
monkey skipper said:
hello
You say hello.
I thought she’d found a bogong moth.
It is kind of disappointing , considering the pygmy possums have been a recent discovery , even though they have been there for ages no doubt but to discover something threatens their survival is well… sad.
It is kind of disappointing , considering the pygmy possums have been a recent discovery , even though they have been there for ages no doubt but to discover something threatens their survival is well… sad.
monkey skipper said:
It is kind of disappointing , considering the pygmy possums have been a recent discovery , even though they have been there for ages no doubt but to discover something threatens their survival is well… sad.
It is but we still don’t know enough about the land we took over and decided to make it the way we wanted for profits.
“Recently concern has mounted about arsenic levels in the Bogong Moths. The arsenic is present at low levels in the soil of their larval pasturelands and is stored in the body of the adult moth. When the moths die off in their caves, the arsenic leaches from their bodies into the local soil. The arsenic becomes concentrated because of the build-up of dead moths on the floor of the cave over many years. The arsenic could potentially adversely affect their predators, including the Mountain Pygmy Possum, but this has not yet been fully demonstrated.” https://australianmuseum.net.au/learn/animals/insects/bogong-moth/
They are also a pest to agriculture and forests.
>>The big flappy moths haven’t been seen this year.)<<
They are usually common in Autumn after rain.
buffy said:
Ah, this would be a rain moth, I think. Taken here at Penshurst in 2007.
Goat Moth
Different species, but the information is similar.
http://esperancewildlife.blogspot.com/2010/06/endoxyla-bipustulatus-goat-moth.html
PermeateFree said:
buffy said:
Ah, this would be a rain moth, I think. Taken here at Penshurst in 2007.
Goat Moth
Different species, but the information is similar.
http://esperancewildlife.blogspot.com/2010/06/endoxyla-bipustulatus-goat-moth.html
Ah, thanks. Big flappy moth with a different name
:)
buffy said:
PermeateFree said:
buffy said:
Ah, this would be a rain moth, I think. Taken here at Penshurst in 2007.
Goat Moth
Different species, but the information is similar.
http://esperancewildlife.blogspot.com/2010/06/endoxyla-bipustulatus-goat-moth.html
Ah, thanks. Big flappy moth with a different name
:)
In all my Lepidoptera photos, I have no goat moths or bogong moths.
And can I just say…there is certainly no sign of a decrease in crickets around here. Lots and lots of them and they “sing” all night. I don’t mind the sound of crickets.
buffy said:
And can I just say…there is certainly no sign of a decrease in crickets around here. Lots and lots of them and they “sing” all night. I don’t mind the sound of crickets.
Crickets prefer to be near streams to amass in huge numbers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-02-27/bogong-moth-decline-in-australian-alps/10850036
