Date: 26/02/2019 19:58:14
From: transition
ID: 1352295
Subject: crime not to report a crime

fairly relaxed this is in our culture, instead divested to informal behavior controls, mechanisms of adverse attention perhaps, but education’s the big thing, related something like an egalitarian ethic, the we doesn’t impose much, instead individuals are allowed to arrive by agreement, their own agreement. A similar idea features in contract law I reckon, and common notions of agreement, the parties have to agree, otherwise it isn’t agreement, and there are laws discouraging coercion etc.

people mind their own business a lot, one of joys of freedom, the operating space to do that.

people don’t dob each other in for minor crimes, a lot, otherwise the world or your part of starts to seem very small, it’s creeping too, and informal behavior controls start to become increasingly replaced with formal. Before long you’re not a volunteer enjoying freedom, doing the right thing, it tends toward something like east germany, way back.

some churched have an idea similar to the idea it is a crime not to report a crime, if they are not out trying to convert people, doing the good work, God’s work, they are sinners.

there’s a hint there above of where i’m going with this, without mentioning it, it’s all over the TV.

forgiveness features in a our culture quite broadly, maybe not a lot of it, but you don’t need religion to understand the idea, and i’m sure it existed as a human ability way back, on the african savanna even.

religion got in the forgiveness business way back, and it’s not completely unrelated the purpose of the law similar, in stopping or limiting spiraling or self-perpetuating retribution.

anyway you could see some churches as amplifying forgiveness, particularly by those delivering the forgiveness and doing it for themselves, to the point that it’s a crime not to report a crime (the idea, that lends to behavior controls) becomes hopelessly ineffective.

so in a country (or culture) that already fairly relaxed this you could have an organization in which it was further relaxed.

such a thing might be less relaxed in a more authoritarian country.

it makes perfect sense a church in the forgiveness business might so relax the idea of it being a crime not to report a crime (do something about it), it’s in fact a characteristic of our culture. Part of the ideology, or freedom philosophy.

not so distant from the idea it’s only wrong if you get caught

rushed that above, it’s writ like shit, but the idea should be obvious enough.

an organization, a church or whatever, can take a most cherished virtue of a culture, part of the philosophy of liberty, amplify it around them, and fail when it matters, terribly. Summarized.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 19:59:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352299
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

transition said:

fairly relaxed this is in our culture, instead divested to informal behavior controls, mechanisms of adverse attention perhaps, but education’s the big thing, related something like an egalitarian ethic, the we doesn’t impose much, instead individuals are allowed to arrive by agreement, their own agreement. A similar idea features in contract law I reckon, and common notions of agreement, the parties have to agree, otherwise it isn’t agreement, and there are laws discouraging coercion etc.

people mind their own business a lot, one of joys of freedom, the operating space to do that.

people don’t dob each other in for minor crimes, a lot, otherwise the world or your part of starts to seem very small, it’s creeping too, and informal behavior controls start to become increasingly replaced with formal. Before long you’re not a volunteer enjoying freedom, doing the right thing, it tends toward something like east germany, way back.

some churched have an idea similar to the idea it is a crime not to report a crime, if they are not out trying to convert people, doing the good work, God’s work, they are sinners.

there’s a hint there above of where i’m going with this, without mentioning it, it’s all over the TV.

forgiveness features in a our culture quite broadly, maybe not a lot of it, but you don’t need religion to understand the idea, and i’m sure it existed as a human ability way back, on the african savanna even.

religion got in the forgiveness business way back, and it’s not completely unrelated the purpose of the law similar, in stopping or limiting spiraling or self-perpetuating retribution.

anyway you could see some churches as amplifying forgiveness, particularly by those delivering the forgiveness and doing it for themselves, to the point that it’s a crime not to report a crime (the idea, that lends to behavior controls) becomes hopelessly ineffective.

so in a country (or culture) that already fairly relaxed this you could have an organization in which it was further relaxed.

such a thing might be less relaxed in a more authoritarian country.

it makes perfect sense a church in the forgiveness business might so relax the idea of it being a crime not to report a crime (do something about it), it’s in fact a characteristic of our culture. Part of the ideology, or freedom philosophy.

not so distant from the idea it’s only wrong if you get caught

rushed that above, it’s writ like shit, but the idea should be obvious enough.

an organization, a church or whatever, can take a most cherished virtue of a culture, part of the philosophy of liberty, amplify it around them, and fail when it matters, terribly. Summarized.

good topic.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:06:02
From: Arts
ID: 1352306
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:11:21
From: buffy
ID: 1352310
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

This. There are is a very goodly majority of good priests – but it is getting harder to find people with a vocation, and it will be even harder now because the good people will not want to have to be constantly explaining and feeling that they are always on trial. I know this is the case. I have sat and chatted with a priest who was finding this whole thing very difficult some 10 years ago. It made his work very difficult. I am quite happy that he is a good priest. He is certainly a very compassionate man and his parisioners loved him. He has moved to a different district now, but still returns to see me for his eye care. When I think about it, I must be a good listener – I’ve remembered there is another one who comes to see me although retired to another town.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:12:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352311
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

I could argue that the church offered a haven and a conspiracy ring to such people but otherwise I’d be happy to agree.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:12:49
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1352313
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

But one rogue priest can do a lot of damage.
A bunch of rogue priests can do substantial damage.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:14:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352315
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

buffy said:


Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

This. There are is a very goodly majority of good priests – but it is getting harder to find people with a vocation, and it will be even harder now because the good people will not want to have to be constantly explaining and feeling that they are always on trial. I know this is the case. I have sat and chatted with a priest who was finding this whole thing very difficult some 10 years ago. It made his work very difficult. I am quite happy that he is a good priest. He is certainly a very compassionate man and his parisioners loved him. He has moved to a different district now, but still returns to see me for his eye care. When I think about it, I must be a good listener – I’ve remembered there is another one who comes to see me although retired to another town.

This was my problem as a youth. I had the vocation and a small thimbleful of of those within the teachers that had noticed it but the bowl overflowed with those who made me have no wish to follow this false vocation.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:18:35
From: party_pants
ID: 1352324
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

Are they paedophiles as such, or just people with an addiction to power and authority that get a thrill from exercising their power or the powerless? With children just being an easy target.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:19:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352326
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

party_pants said:


Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

Are they paedophiles as such, or just people with an addiction to power and authority that get a thrill from exercising their power or the powerless? With children just being an easy target.

No. They are indeed pedophiles. under the shield of I am the father, fucking my son. How low can you get?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:20:46
From: Arts
ID: 1352327
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

sarahs mum said:


Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

But one rogue priest can do a lot of damage.
A bunch of rogue priests can do substantial damage.

ever notice how paedophiles often are scout leaders, or kids sports coaches or teachers? it does not sully all school teachers, or scout leaders… the biggest weapon a paedophile has is secrecy and parental trust.. this covers many many fine professions

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:21:16
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352328
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

Are they paedophiles as such, or just people with an addiction to power and authority that get a thrill from exercising their power or the powerless? With children just being an easy target.

No. They are indeed pedophiles. under the shield of I am the father, fucking my son. How low can you get?

Those others may be exercising power over mind but not over body like the few they were protecting.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:22:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352329
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


sarahs mum said:

Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

But one rogue priest can do a lot of damage.
A bunch of rogue priests can do substantial damage.

ever notice how paedophiles often are scout leaders, or kids sports coaches or teachers? it does not sully all school teachers, or scout leaders… the biggest weapon a paedophile has is secrecy and parental trust.. this covers many many fine professions

accurate. Institutions to which parents trust their children.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:26:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352332
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


Arts said:

sarahs mum said:

But one rogue priest can do a lot of damage.
A bunch of rogue priests can do substantial damage.

ever notice how paedophiles often are scout leaders, or kids sports coaches or teachers? it does not sully all school teachers, or scout leaders… the biggest weapon a paedophile has is secrecy and parental trust.. this covers many many fine professions

accurate. Institutions to which parents trust their children.

You do now that the missing thing really can be displayed by the ruling family of North Korea.

Discuss.. ;)

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:26:30
From: Arts
ID: 1352333
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

party_pants said:


Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

Are they paedophiles as such, or just people with an addiction to power and authority that get a thrill from exercising their power or the powerless? With children just being an easy target.

well, that again is the question… there is a huge difference between a paedophile and a child sex offender

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:28:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352335
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


party_pants said:

Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

Are they paedophiles as such, or just people with an addiction to power and authority that get a thrill from exercising their power or the powerless? With children just being an easy target.

well, that again is the question… there is a huge difference between a paedophile and a child sex offender

agree. A paedophile keeps on keeping on.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:33:18
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352340
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

Arts said:

ever notice how paedophiles often are scout leaders, or kids sports coaches or teachers? it does not sully all school teachers, or scout leaders… the biggest weapon a paedophile has is secrecy and parental trust.. this covers many many fine professions

accurate. Institutions to which parents trust their children.

You do now that the missing thing really can be displayed by the ruling family of North Korea.

Discuss.. ;)

k?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:41:47
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1352350
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Whatever happened to the statute of limitations on failure to report a crime?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:43:44
From: party_pants
ID: 1352352
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

mollwollfumble said:


Whatever happened to the statute of limitations on failure to report a crime?

I don’t think that was ever a thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:44:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352355
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

mollwollfumble said:


Whatever happened to the statute of limitations on failure to report a crime?

Only if you can be caught red handed.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:47:33
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1352356
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

party_pants said:


mollwollfumble said:

Whatever happened to the statute of limitations on failure to report a crime?

I don’t think that was ever a thing.

I think it does still apply in some instances but I’m not a lawyer.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:48:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352357
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Peak Warming Man said:


party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

Whatever happened to the statute of limitations on failure to report a crime?

I don’t think that was ever a thing.

I think it does still apply in some instances but I’m not a lawyer.

As I said, caught with the blood on the hands.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:51:27
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352358
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

party_pants said:


mollwollfumble said:

Whatever happened to the statute of limitations on failure to report a crime?

I don’t think that was ever a thing.

I think that applies to most crimes, although not to homicide and now including pedophilia.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:53:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352359
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

I don’t think that was ever a thing.

I think it does still apply in some instances but I’m not a lawyer.

As I said, caught with the blood on the hands.

OK. See yourself as an informer. There are three people in your village growing their own unsmartweed.
There is one family who seem to think the village is not only a rubbish dump but also a boom crash derby and a motocross.
There are six from fifty houses where domestic violence is a really serious issue and the rest have many violations of the same code.
There’s a mob of kids from overflowing hhouses camping around the village and cooking drugs.

What do you do?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:55:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352360
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

I don’t think that was ever a thing.

I think it does still apply in some instances but I’m not a lawyer.

As I said, caught with the blood on the hands.

However, you can be booked for not winding your window fully up when you park your car.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 20:56:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352361
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think it does still apply in some instances but I’m not a lawyer.

As I said, caught with the blood on the hands.

However, you can be booked for not winding your window fully up when you park your car.

It still all comes down to someone actually reporting the crime or not, if they were seen doing it.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:00:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352362
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think it does still apply in some instances but I’m not a lawyer.

As I said, caught with the blood on the hands.

OK. See yourself as an informer. There are three people in your village growing their own unsmartweed.
There is one family who seem to think the village is not only a rubbish dump but also a boom crash derby and a motocross.
There are six from fifty houses where domestic violence is a really serious issue and the rest have many violations of the same code.
There’s a mob of kids from overflowing hhouses camping around the village and cooking drugs.

What do you do?

I walked over to the worst offending house and said, it is against the law. She admitted that her grandchildren were only fifteen. What more can I say? I and a couple of other villagers get dirty looks and no attempts at local community vocalese but they have pulled their horns in a bit.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:03:55
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352363
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

The Catholic Church has considerably more reported cases of pedophilia (7% of priests) and you can guess how many unreported cases there are. Just imagine if over 7% of teachers were pedophiles?

Of the 201 Church authorities surveyed, 92 (46%) reported having received at least one claim of child sexual abuse. Overall, some 4,444 claimants alleged incidents of abuse in 4,756 reported claims over the period 1950-2015 (86% of claims related to pre-1990 incidents). The 3,057 claims resulting in a payment for redress amounted to $268 million between 1980 and 2015. Claims had been made against 1,880 alleged perpetrators, with 30% against priests, 32% non-ordained religious brothers, 5% non-ordained religious sisters, 29% lay people and 4% of unknown religious status. By means of a weighted index, the Commission found that at 75 archdioceses/dioceses and religious institutes with priest members examined, some 7 per cent of priests (who worked in Australia between 1950 and 2009) had allegations made against them (this finding did not represent allegations tested in a court of law). Between 1980 and 2015, the Christian Brothers, which operated a number of residential facilities, made the highest number of payments to victims at 763, totaling $48.5m.<<

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:04:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352364
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

As I said, caught with the blood on the hands.

OK. See yourself as an informer. There are three people in your village growing their own unsmartweed.
There is one family who seem to think the village is not only a rubbish dump but also a boom crash derby and a motocross.
There are six from fifty houses where domestic violence is a really serious issue and the rest have many violations of the same code.
There’s a mob of kids from overflowing hhouses camping around the village and cooking drugs.

What do you do?

I walked over to the worst offending house and said, it is against the law. She admitted that her grandchildren were only fifteen. What more can I say? I and a couple of other villagers get dirty looks and no attempts at local community vocalese but they have pulled their horns in a bit.

The campers, stopped camping, the motocross stopped happening, we still have to clear up their rubbish.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:05:28
From: Arts
ID: 1352365
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

The Catholic Church has considerably more reported cases of pedophilia (7% of priests) and you can guess how many unreported cases there are. Just imagine if over 7% of teachers were pedophiles?

Of the 201 Church authorities surveyed, 92 (46%) reported having received at least one claim of child sexual abuse. Overall, some 4,444 claimants alleged incidents of abuse in 4,756 reported claims over the period 1950-2015 (86% of claims related to pre-1990 incidents). The 3,057 claims resulting in a payment for redress amounted to $268 million between 1980 and 2015. Claims had been made against 1,880 alleged perpetrators, with 30% against priests, 32% non-ordained religious brothers, 5% non-ordained religious sisters, 29% lay people and 4% of unknown religious status. By means of a weighted index, the Commission found that at 75 archdioceses/dioceses and religious institutes with priest members examined, some 7 per cent of priests (who worked in Australia between 1950 and 2009) had allegations made against them (this finding did not represent allegations tested in a court of law). Between 1980 and 2015, the Christian Brothers, which operated a number of residential facilities, made the highest number of payments to victims at 763, totaling $48.5m.<<

link please

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:06:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352367
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

The Catholic Church has considerably more reported cases of pedophilia (7% of priests) and you can guess how many unreported cases there are. Just imagine if over 7% of teachers were pedophiles?

Of the 201 Church authorities surveyed, 92 (46%) reported having received at least one claim of child sexual abuse. Overall, some 4,444 claimants alleged incidents of abuse in 4,756 reported claims over the period 1950-2015 (86% of claims related to pre-1990 incidents). The 3,057 claims resulting in a payment for redress amounted to $268 million between 1980 and 2015. Claims had been made against 1,880 alleged perpetrators, with 30% against priests, 32% non-ordained religious brothers, 5% non-ordained religious sisters, 29% lay people and 4% of unknown religious status. By means of a weighted index, the Commission found that at 75 archdioceses/dioceses and religious institutes with priest members examined, some 7 per cent of priests (who worked in Australia between 1950 and 2009) had allegations made against them (this finding did not represent allegations tested in a court of law). Between 1980 and 2015, the Christian Brothers, which operated a number of residential facilities, made the highest number of payments to victims at 763, totaling $48.5m.<<

link please

+1

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:06:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352368
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

to get straight to the point… if someone confesses a crime to a priest in a confessional, and that priest decides to ‘report it’ it is hearsay..

even without that:

if people know that they can be charged for a crime by confessing to a priest will they confess? probably not.

I don’t think the Catholic church is ‘rife’ with paedophiles. I think there are some, but not a disproportionate amount to the rest of society.

The Catholic Church has considerably more reported cases of pedophilia (7% of priests) and you can guess how many unreported cases there are. Just imagine if over 7% of teachers were pedophiles?

Of the 201 Church authorities surveyed, 92 (46%) reported having received at least one claim of child sexual abuse. Overall, some 4,444 claimants alleged incidents of abuse in 4,756 reported claims over the period 1950-2015 (86% of claims related to pre-1990 incidents). The 3,057 claims resulting in a payment for redress amounted to $268 million between 1980 and 2015. Claims had been made against 1,880 alleged perpetrators, with 30% against priests, 32% non-ordained religious brothers, 5% non-ordained religious sisters, 29% lay people and 4% of unknown religious status. By means of a weighted index, the Commission found that at 75 archdioceses/dioceses and religious institutes with priest members examined, some 7 per cent of priests (who worked in Australia between 1950 and 2009) had allegations made against them (this finding did not represent allegations tested in a court of law). Between 1980 and 2015, the Christian Brothers, which operated a number of residential facilities, made the highest number of payments to victims at 763, totaling $48.5m.<<

link please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:09:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352371
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

The Catholic Church has considerably more reported cases of pedophilia (7% of priests) and you can guess how many unreported cases there are. Just imagine if over 7% of teachers were pedophiles?

Of the 201 Church authorities surveyed, 92 (46%) reported having received at least one claim of child sexual abuse. Overall, some 4,444 claimants alleged incidents of abuse in 4,756 reported claims over the period 1950-2015 (86% of claims related to pre-1990 incidents). The 3,057 claims resulting in a payment for redress amounted to $268 million between 1980 and 2015. Claims had been made against 1,880 alleged perpetrators, with 30% against priests, 32% non-ordained religious brothers, 5% non-ordained religious sisters, 29% lay people and 4% of unknown religious status. By means of a weighted index, the Commission found that at 75 archdioceses/dioceses and religious institutes with priest members examined, some 7 per cent of priests (who worked in Australia between 1950 and 2009) had allegations made against them (this finding did not represent allegations tested in a court of law). Between 1980 and 2015, the Christian Brothers, which operated a number of residential facilities, made the highest number of payments to victims at 763, totaling $48.5m.<<

link please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

any others?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:13:21
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352378
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

link please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

any others?

Yes look at the references listed at the bottom of the Wiki article.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:13:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352379
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

any others?

Yes look at the references listed at the bottom of the Wiki article.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 21:24:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 1352383
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

any others?

Yes look at the references listed at the bottom of the Wiki article.

:)

Surely including all of Wiki on a disc for another intelligence to read should be nothing less than extreme embarrassment because if the universe is nothing less in it’s complexity, we look like a really shitty choice.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:07:22
From: Arts
ID: 1352408
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

The Catholic Church has considerably more reported cases of pedophilia (7% of priests) and you can guess how many unreported cases there are. Just imagine if over 7% of teachers were pedophiles?

Of the 201 Church authorities surveyed, 92 (46%) reported having received at least one claim of child sexual abuse. Overall, some 4,444 claimants alleged incidents of abuse in 4,756 reported claims over the period 1950-2015 (86% of claims related to pre-1990 incidents). The 3,057 claims resulting in a payment for redress amounted to $268 million between 1980 and 2015. Claims had been made against 1,880 alleged perpetrators, with 30% against priests, 32% non-ordained religious brothers, 5% non-ordained religious sisters, 29% lay people and 4% of unknown religious status. By means of a weighted index, the Commission found that at 75 archdioceses/dioceses and religious institutes with priest members examined, some 7 per cent of priests (who worked in Australia between 1950 and 2009) had allegations made against them (this finding did not represent allegations tested in a court of law). Between 1980 and 2015, the Christian Brothers, which operated a number of residential facilities, made the highest number of payments to victims at 763, totaling $48.5m.<<

link please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

the first paragraph that you did not show has the bigger picture

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:15:58
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352416
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

link please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

the first paragraph that you did not show has the bigger picture

Apologises that the facts don’t agree with your preconceptions, but if you want to reproduce the first sentence and compare it directly with the second I shall be pleased to provide you with additional information leading to the same outcome.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:20:13
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352419
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

the first paragraph that you did not show has the bigger picture

Apologises that the facts don’t agree with your preconceptions, but if you want to reproduce the first sentence and compare it directly with the second I shall be pleased to provide you with additional information leading to the same outcome.

From the first sentence!

>>The Commission reported that 7% of all Catholic priests in Australia were “alleged perpetrators of child sex abuse;” the children’s average age at the time of the abuse was 11.5 for boys and 10.5 for girls. Alleged perpetrators were overwhelmingly male (90%) and religious brothers were disproportionally highly responsible (having the most claimants and some 37% of all alleged perpetrators, despite being numerically inferior to priests and religious sisters).<<

Yes it might have the bigger picture and it is just as bad.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:23:52
From: Arts
ID: 1352425
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#Australia

the first paragraph that you did not show has the bigger picture

Apologises that the facts don’t agree with your preconceptions, but if you want to reproduce the first sentence and compare it directly with the second I shall be pleased to provide you with additional information leading to the same outcome.

here we go.. it says alleged, it says reported, it says claimed..

I’m not going to discuss this with you because you like to change goal posts and stuff so, thanks for the link but I’m done now

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:27:00
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352428
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

the first paragraph that you did not show has the bigger picture

Apologises that the facts don’t agree with your preconceptions, but if you want to reproduce the first sentence and compare it directly with the second I shall be pleased to provide you with additional information leading to the same outcome.

here we go.. it says alleged, it says reported, it says claimed..

I’m not going to discuss this with you because you like to change goal posts and stuff so, thanks for the link but I’m done now

Well if you want to get the facts rather than your assumptions, I stated REPORTED. I don’t shift goal posts, just you don’t like being proved wrong, no matter how innocently broached. How’s the gecko?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:35:40
From: Rule 303
ID: 1352436
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

PermeateFree said:

Apologises that the facts don’t agree with your preconceptions, but if you want to reproduce the first sentence and compare it directly with the second I shall be pleased to provide you with additional information leading to the same outcome.

here we go.. it says alleged, it says reported, it says claimed..

I’m not going to discuss this with you because you like to change goal posts and stuff so, thanks for the link but I’m done now

Well if you want to get the facts rather than your assumptions, I stated REPORTED. I don’t shift goal posts, just you don’t like being proved wrong, no matter how innocently broached. How’s the gecko?

This is why we can’t have nice things.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:40:45
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352441
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Rule 303 said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

here we go.. it says alleged, it says reported, it says claimed..

I’m not going to discuss this with you because you like to change goal posts and stuff so, thanks for the link but I’m done now

Well if you want to get the facts rather than your assumptions, I stated REPORTED. I don’t shift goal posts, just you don’t like being proved wrong, no matter how innocently broached. How’s the gecko?

This is why we can’t have nice things.

For someone supposedly studying legal facts, such attitudes have in the past had people locked up for considerable periods.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:42:32
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1352448
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Rule 303 said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

here we go.. it says alleged, it says reported, it says claimed..

I’m not going to discuss this with you because you like to change goal posts and stuff so, thanks for the link but I’m done now

Well if you want to get the facts rather than your assumptions, I stated REPORTED. I don’t shift goal posts, just you don’t like being proved wrong, no matter how innocently broached. How’s the gecko?

This is why we can’t have nice things.

i have nice things.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/02/2019 22:45:15
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352452
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

ChrispenEvan said:


Rule 303 said:

PermeateFree said:

Well if you want to get the facts rather than your assumptions, I stated REPORTED. I don’t shift goal posts, just you don’t like being proved wrong, no matter how innocently broached. How’s the gecko?

This is why we can’t have nice things.

i have nice things.

I have nice things too, sad about Arts.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 08:04:59
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1352523
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

I don’t think the Church’s cover-up of child abuse and other crime relates to the national culture, it relates to Catholic institutional culture, which is an international thing.

The Church traditionally sees its own laws and customs as more important than any local national laws and customs.

And part of its mission in running schools, charities and bidding for government agencies etc, as well as getting involved in party politics and the judiciary, is to extend its influence into the power structures of countries all over the globe.

It has been extraordinarily successful at this and continues to be here, as elsewhere, despite recent more intensive scrutiny.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 08:37:33
From: transition
ID: 1352533
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

>traditionally sees its own laws and customs as more important than any local national laws and customs.

dunno, there may be hubris in monopolizing or being a leader in the realm of forgiveness.

there’s no question the essentials, the ethical and moral practicals in the idea of it being a crime not to report a crime got relaxed, way too relaxed (it’s part of informal behavior controls), there’s no question it’s substantially relaxed in our culture, from that you could probably find in the bubbles of institutions it can evolve a devious dimension. And to be clear we’re talking about deviant behavior.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 10:04:57
From: dv
ID: 1352550
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Bubblecar said:


I don’t think the Church’s cover-up of child abuse and other crime relates to the national culture, it relates to Catholic institutional culture, which is an international thing.

The Church traditionally sees its own laws and customs as more important than any local national laws and customs.

And part of its mission in running schools, charities and bidding for government agencies etc, as well as getting involved in party politics and the judiciary, is to extend its influence into the power structures of countries all over the globe.

It has been extraordinarily successful at this and continues to be here, as elsewhere, despite recent more intensive scrutiny.

Mmmmm.

It involves over 100000 victims worldwide. Has there ever been a bigger institutional crime? It’s hard to think of anything comparable.

Some 4% of Catholic clergy has sex with a minor in the 2nd half of the 20th century. The Vatican has always put it about that the rates were about the same as other organisations but I dunno… If I was in an office with 100 people and 4 of them had had sex with children, I’d consider that noteworthy.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 11:01:32
From: Arts
ID: 1352583
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

dv said:


Bubblecar said:

I don’t think the Church’s cover-up of child abuse and other crime relates to the national culture, it relates to Catholic institutional culture, which is an international thing.

The Church traditionally sees its own laws and customs as more important than any local national laws and customs.

And part of its mission in running schools, charities and bidding for government agencies etc, as well as getting involved in party politics and the judiciary, is to extend its influence into the power structures of countries all over the globe.

It has been extraordinarily successful at this and continues to be here, as elsewhere, despite recent more intensive scrutiny.

Mmmmm.

It involves over 100000 victims worldwide. Has there ever been a bigger institutional crime? It’s hard to think of anything comparable.

Some 4% of Catholic clergy has sex with a minor in the 2nd half of the 20th century. The Vatican has always put it about that the rates were about the same as other organisations but I dunno… If I was in an office with 100 people and 4 of them had had sex with children, I’d consider that noteworthy.

having ‘‘sex’ with is conjecture but it depends on your definition of sex.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 14:09:11
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352706
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


dv said:

Bubblecar said:

I don’t think the Church’s cover-up of child abuse and other crime relates to the national culture, it relates to Catholic institutional culture, which is an international thing.

The Church traditionally sees its own laws and customs as more important than any local national laws and customs.

And part of its mission in running schools, charities and bidding for government agencies etc, as well as getting involved in party politics and the judiciary, is to extend its influence into the power structures of countries all over the globe.

It has been extraordinarily successful at this and continues to be here, as elsewhere, despite recent more intensive scrutiny.

Mmmmm.

It involves over 100000 victims worldwide. Has there ever been a bigger institutional crime? It’s hard to think of anything comparable.

Some 4% of Catholic clergy has sex with a minor in the 2nd half of the 20th century. The Vatican has always put it about that the rates were about the same as other organisations but I dunno… If I was in an office with 100 people and 4 of them had had sex with children, I’d consider that noteworthy.

having ‘‘sex’ with is conjecture but it depends on your definition of sex.

Interesting comment.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 14:11:37
From: dv
ID: 1352708
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

PermeateFree said:


Arts said:

dv said:

Mmmmm.

It involves over 100000 victims worldwide. Has there ever been a bigger institutional crime? It’s hard to think of anything comparable.

Some 4% of Catholic clergy has sex with a minor in the 2nd half of the 20th century. The Vatican has always put it about that the rates were about the same as other organisations but I dunno… If I was in an office with 100 people and 4 of them had had sex with children, I’d consider that noteworthy.

having ‘‘sex’ with is conjecture but it depends on your definition of sex.

Interesting comment.

The exact term used in the document is “have had a sexual experience with a minor”.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 14:14:35
From: Arts
ID: 1352713
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

having ‘‘sex’ with is conjecture but it depends on your definition of sex.

Interesting comment.

The exact term used in the document is “have had a sexual experience with a minor”.

which is not necessarily penetrative sex

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 14:22:25
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352721
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

having ‘‘sex’ with is conjecture but it depends on your definition of sex.

Interesting comment.

The exact term used in the document is “have had a sexual experience with a minor”.

That’s interesting too. Let’s just say the Catholic clergy had wicked thoughts that they had the need to confess. Don’t forget 7% of these people were reported for sexual abuse, which is likely considerably underestimated considering the nature of the crime and peoples reluctance in talking about it. However, I feel sure our Miss Marple will have more to say about it.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2019 14:23:15
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1352724
Subject: re: crime not to report a crime

Arts said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Interesting comment.

The exact term used in the document is “have had a sexual experience with a minor”.

which is not necessarily penetrative sex

Take it you buy white wash in bulk.

Reply Quote