Date: 7/03/2019 22:27:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1356774
Subject: The Creativity Code

Edited extract from Marcus Du Sautoy’s new book, The Creativity Code, published on March 7 (HarperCollins)

What’s the purpose of humanity if machines can learn ingenuity?

Flashes of inspiration are considered a human gift that drives innovation – but the monopoly is over. AI can be programmed to invent and refine ideas and connections. What’s next?

The value placed on creativity in modern times has led to a range of writers and thinkers trying to articulate what it is, how to stimulate it, and why it is important. It was while sitting on a committee at the Royal Society assessing what impact machine learning was likely to have on society in the coming decades that I first encountered the theories of Margaret Boden. Her ideas struck me as the most relevant when it came to addressing creativity in machines.

more…

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Date: 7/03/2019 22:30:25
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1356778
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

I didn’t think humanity had a purpose. We just happened to be a smart ape.

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Date: 7/03/2019 22:38:29
From: Michael V
ID: 1356783
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

AwesomeO said:


I didn’t think humanity had a purpose. We just happened to be a smart ape.

Yes, this.

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Date: 7/03/2019 22:38:33
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1356784
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

> What’s the purpose of humanity if machines can learn ingenuity?

Well, obviosly, the purpose of humanity is to make machines.

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Date: 8/03/2019 06:08:40
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1356823
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

Tau.Neutrino said:


Edited extract from Marcus Du Sautoy’s new book, The Creativity Code, published on March 7 (HarperCollins)

What’s the purpose of humanity if machines can learn ingenuity?

Flashes of inspiration are considered a human gift that drives innovation – but the monopoly is over. AI can be programmed to invent and refine ideas and connections. What’s next?

The value placed on creativity in modern times has led to a range of writers and thinkers trying to articulate what it is, how to stimulate it, and why it is important. It was while sitting on a committee at the Royal Society assessing what impact machine learning was likely to have on society in the coming decades that I first encountered the theories of Margaret Boden. Her ideas struck me as the most relevant when it came to addressing creativity in machines.

more…

There’s a lot in that article.

> She has identified three different types of human creativity.

> Exploratory creativity involves taking what is there and exploring its outer edges, extending the limits of what is possible while remaining bound by the rules.

eg. Mathematics.

> The second sort of creativity involves combination. Think of how an artist might take two completely different constructs and seek to combine them. There are interesting hints that this sort of creativity might also be perfect for the world of AI.

It might be, but it certainly hasn’t been done yet. I’ll let you know when it has.

> It is Margaret Boden’s third form of creativity that is the more ­mysterious and elusive, and that is transformational creativity. These moments are like phase changes, as when water suddenly goes from a liquid to a solid. Picasso, Schoenberg, Joyce and modernism.

I disagree with Picasso and Schoenberg there, and don’t know Joyce. Picasso got his initial inspiration from brickwork, you can see it in his early work. Schoenberg got his inspiration from listening to instruments being tuned. Isn’t this simply reactionism, a deliberate reversal of Exploratory creativity using Combination?

> At first sight transformational creativity seems hard to harness as a strategy. But again the goal is to test the status quo by dropping some of the constraints that have been put in place. Try seeing what happens if we change one of the basic rules we have accepted as part of the fabric of our subject.

Oh, so it is reactionaism. Like my reactionaism in posing the question “what if the limit as x tends to infinity of x is not the same as the limit as x tends to infinity of 2*x?”. Which is deliberate rule-breaking. I was using non-Euclidean geometry as a template “what if the sum of angles at the corners of a triangle don’t sum to 180 degrees?”.

But … does this apply to Van Gogh as well? In the article “Van Gogh wrote: Great things are not done by impulse but by a series of small things brought together.” So perhaps it does.

> If I were asked to identify a transformational moment in mathematics, the creation of the square root of minus one in the mid-16th century would be a good candidate.

Yes, transformational, but not outside the gamut of what had happened before. In the sense of ‘every operation has an inverse operation’. The inverse of addition is subtraction. The inverse of multiplication is division. The inverse of taking a number to a power is taking a number to a different power.

Perhaps the genius was not in inventing complex numbers, but in realising that they had a practical use.

> How can a computer come up with the concept of the square root of minus one when the data it is fed will tell it that there is no number whose square can be negative?

It can if you tell it to look for an inverse. Of course, nobody would.

> As Picasso once said: “The chief enemy of creativity is good sense.” … We have an awful habit of romanticising creative genius.

> Are these strategies that can be written into computer code?

Yes. Easy-peasy. Will they? Probably not, programmers have enough trouble already with software not doing what it is supposed to do.

—-

Overview. I find it interesting how this article is of the combinative creativity type. Combining art and mathematics and trying to make sense of the combination.

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Date: 8/03/2019 06:54:53
From: transition
ID: 1356828
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

didn’t read it all, skimmed some of’t, and had the thought human minds to some extent explore or inhabit the limits of what is known, the familiar, or knowable, into the unfamiliar it’s like an emergent feature of the way the bulb on the shoulders operates.

you can be thick as a plank, bumping into uncertainties/unknowns, at the edge of what you know.

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Date: 8/03/2019 06:58:14
From: transition
ID: 1356829
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

transition said:


didn’t read it all, skimmed some of’t, and had the thought human minds to some extent explore or inhabit the limits of what is known, the familiar, or knowable, into the unfamiliar it’s like an emergent feature of the way the bulb on the shoulders operates.

you can be thick as a plank, bumping into uncertainties/unknowns, at the edge of what you know.

and there are accidents, the happened upon, plenty of that.

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Date: 8/03/2019 08:24:45
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1356847
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

transition said:


transition said:

didn’t read it all, skimmed some of’t, and had the thought human minds to some extent explore or inhabit the limits of what is known, the familiar, or knowable, into the unfamiliar it’s like an emergent feature of the way the bulb on the shoulders operates.

you can be thick as a plank, bumping into uncertainties/unknowns, at the edge of what you know.

and there are accidents, the happened upon, plenty of that.

Name one?

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Date: 8/03/2019 08:28:13
From: transition
ID: 1356848
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

mollwollfumble said:


transition said:

transition said:

didn’t read it all, skimmed some of’t, and had the thought human minds to some extent explore or inhabit the limits of what is known, the familiar, or knowable, into the unfamiliar it’s like an emergent feature of the way the bulb on the shoulders operates.

you can be thick as a plank, bumping into uncertainties/unknowns, at the edge of what you know.

and there are accidents, the happened upon, plenty of that.

Name one?

how about the try and test that goes into novel word formulations, for example.

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Date: 8/03/2019 09:10:38
From: transition
ID: 1356862
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

transition said:


mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

and there are accidents, the happened upon, plenty of that.

Name one?

how about the try and test that goes into novel word formulations, for example.

recently I used the expression computational oblivion, conveying an idea about thermodynamics and time, recession of or into the past, information loss about previous structure/order (related totality of causes and effects that give you the now). Non-reversible algorithms etc.

the idea, the term, a combination of words, the formulation really comes from something of common experience, something everybody bumps into, the uncomputable, the incalculable.

similarly biological evolution is built on or with accidents that work/ed.

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Date: 8/03/2019 11:16:18
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1356934
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:


transition said:

didn’t read it all, skimmed some of’t, and had the thought human minds to some extent explore or inhabit the limits of what is known, the familiar, or knowable, into the unfamiliar it’s like an emergent feature of the way the bulb on the shoulders operates.

you can be thick as a plank, bumping into uncertainties/unknowns, at the edge of what you know.

Name one?

how about the try and test that goes into novel word formulations, for example.

recently I used the expression computational oblivion, conveying an idea about thermodynamics and time, recession of or into the past, information loss about previous structure/order (related totality of causes and effects that give you the now). Non-reversible algorithms etc.

the idea, the term, a combination of words, the formulation really comes from something of common experience, something everybody bumps into, the uncomputable, the incalculable.

similarly biological evolution is built on or with accidents that worked.

Yeah OK.

Then do you agree with me that the only distinction between “combination” creativity and “transformational creativity” is that the latter better survives the oblivion of natural selection? ie. that creativity that appears to come out of nowhere, doesn’t come out of nowhere?

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Date: 8/03/2019 11:46:02
From: transition
ID: 1356946
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

mollwollfumble said:


transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

Name one?

how about the try and test that goes into novel word formulations, for example.

recently I used the expression computational oblivion, conveying an idea about thermodynamics and time, recession of or into the past, information loss about previous structure/order (related totality of causes and effects that give you the now). Non-reversible algorithms etc.

the idea, the term, a combination of words, the formulation really comes from something of common experience, something everybody bumps into, the uncomputable, the incalculable.

similarly biological evolution is built on or with accidents that worked.

Yeah OK.

Then do you agree with me that the only distinction between “combination” creativity and “transformational creativity” is that the latter better survives the oblivion of natural selection? ie. that creativity that appears to come out of nowhere, doesn’t come out of nowhere?

not much comes out of nowhere, or from nowhere, though as recall utopia means no place, and now for some reason i’m thinking something about the road to hell and good intentions.

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Date: 8/03/2019 22:18:15
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1357206
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

> i’m thinking something about the road to hell and good intentions.

I’ve never believed that. And still see no reason to believe it.

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Date: 8/03/2019 22:30:48
From: transition
ID: 1357210
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

mollwollfumble said:


> i’m thinking something about the road to hell and good intentions.

I’ve never believed that. And still see no reason to believe it.

think most people know the potential pitfalls of ideas worse than none, being convinced of ones good intentions.

but yeah the expression lends to, well, it’s like a pithy aphorism, I don’t like them much, but just think how many minds it immunized, all the crazy helping behavior it prevented.

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Date: 8/03/2019 22:50:10
From: transition
ID: 1357215
Subject: re: The Creativity Code

i’m having a sensation, I reckon the computational oblivion and possibility space may be related.

it’s a strangely attractive contradiction, probably better considered softly, from a distance, just an occasional visit that way.

something to come back to, between other things.

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