From a planetary science point of view, how do organics form on a planet?

Going from elements and minerals down to complex molecules and life?

1 Elements.
2 Minerals.
3
4

What comes after minerals or are there things in-between?

I’m not sure I get what you mean. There are millions of organic compounds and they each have different synthesis paths.

I think Tamb is wondering how inorganic chemistry becomes organic chemistry, maybe?

Peak Warming Man said:

I think Tamb is wondering how inorganic chemistry becomes organic chemistry, maybe?

Organic compounds are just compounds containing carbon with at least one single covalent bond. Because of carbon’s ability to form long chains, this is a very large set of compounds.

Hydrogen is the commonest element out there and carbon is moderately common. The carbon radical is one of the more common radicals found in interstellar space and four collisions with hydrogen radicals will make the simplest organic compound, methane, which has also been found in interstellar space.

Rather than abolish states, I reckon there should be a push to create new federal territories. As a way of promoting regional development and building new cities to ease the pressure on the existing capital cities.

Only snag is the states would have to agree to cede the land for the new territory to be created.

party_pants said:

Rather than abolish states, I reckon there should be a push to create new federal territories. As a way of promoting regional development and building new cities to ease the pressure on the existing capital cities.

Only snag is the states would have to agree to cede the land for the new territory to be created.

whoops. Fred Wong.

Tau.Neutrino said:

From a planetary science point of view, how do organics form on a planet?

Going from elements and minerals down to complex molecules and life?

1 Elements.
2 Minerals.
3
4

What comes after minerals or are there things in-between?

Well, going back to the start of of the universe.

1. Quarks & electrons
2. Protons & neutrons
3. Ions
4. Atoms of hydrogen and helium
5. PP and CNO processes in stars produce atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen
6. Supernovae create more elements, spread these atoms of gas where they cool into methane, ammonia, water and weirder small organic molecules.
7. Nonorganic elements condense into dust minerals including calcium aluminates and forsterite and nanodiamonds, later silicates.
8. Heat polymerises organic molecules into amino acids, lipids and similar.
9. Loss of water gives polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, asphaltenes, tholins, kerogens. Bilayer membranes and cell-like structures form. Proteins.
10. Loss of hydrogen gives HCN, carbohydrates, phosphate, carbonate, nucleic acids
11. Polymerisation gives complex carbohydrates, lignin, cAMP, ATP, NADPH, RNA
12. Bacteria / Archaea.

God’s got a big chemistry lab, the big man set it going way back, it’s enormous, some say infinite, it’s free-running, and has all the time in the world to happen upon stuff, replicators importantly, to your point.

i’m not sure about the magic of abiogenesis, NFI really, don’t think anyone’s cracked it yet, the magic.

clearly there’s encoding and decoding, the business of the replicators.

I do see a massive random events generator here on earth, the wash of the hydrological cycle, minerals and all, too I see thermal gradients, and settling/condensations/stratifications/boundaries, all of which are probably involved in self-ordering, and are structure tending.

if happy accidents could possibly happen, good chance they might here on earth, and they did.

i’d like to know if this banked up energy forming structure is really an example of negentropy, or is it more illusion.

or does the apparent anomaly shit structure into the past faster, it recedes at a greater rate into the oblivion of the past.

transition said:

God’s got a big chemistry lab, the big man set it going way back, it’s enormous, some say infinite, it’s free-running, and has all the time in the world to happen upon stuff, replicators importantly, to your point.

i’m not sure about the magic of abiogenesis, NFI really, don’t think anyone’s cracked it yet, the magic.

clearly there’s encoding and decoding, the business of the replicators.

I do see a massive random events generator here on earth, the wash of the hydrological cycle, minerals and all, too I see thermal gradients, and settling/condensations/stratifications/boundaries, all of which are probably involved in self-ordering, and are structure tending.

if happy accidents could possibly happen, good chance they might here on earth, and they did.

i’d like to know if this banked up energy forming structure is really an example of negentropy, or is it more illusion.

or does the apparent anomaly shit structure into the past faster, it recedes at a greater rate into the oblivion of the past.

> i’m not sure about the magic of abiogenesis, NFI really, don’t think anyone’s cracked it yet, the magic.

I agree. They haven’t.

I think I could crack it, or at least have a good shot at cracking it.

The largest ever experiment on the origin of life cost about $10, which is why nobody has ever come close. But this needs “big science”.

I’d need at least $20 million (possibly nearer $50 million), plenty of staff, and many years. Small money compared to the Hubble Telescope or the LHC.

> I’d like to know if this banked up energy forming structure is really an example of negentropy, or is it more illusion.

Um, yes, so would I.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

From a planetary science point of view, how do organics form on a planet?

Going from elements and minerals down to complex molecules and life?

1 Elements.
2 Minerals.
3
4

What comes after minerals or are there things in-between?

Well, going back to the start of of the universe.

1. Quarks & electrons
2. Protons & neutrons
3. Ions
4. Atoms of hydrogen and helium
5. PP and CNO processes in stars produce atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen
6. Supernovae create more elements, spread these atoms of gas where they cool into methane, ammonia, water and weirder small organic molecules.
7. Nonorganic elements condense into dust minerals including calcium aluminates and forsterite and nanodiamonds, later silicates.
8. Heat polymerises organic molecules into amino acids, lipids and similar.
9. Loss of water gives polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, asphaltenes, tholins, kerogens. Bilayer membranes and cell-like structures form. Proteins.
10. Loss of hydrogen gives HCN, carbohydrates, phosphate, carbonate, nucleic acids
11. Polymerisation gives complex carbohydrates, lignin, cAMP, ATP, NADPH, RNA
12. Bacteria / Archaea.

A map of how elements, molecules, amino acids and proteins etc form would be useful for discovering life.

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

From a planetary science point of view, how do organics form on a planet?

Going from elements and minerals down to complex molecules and life?

1 Elements.
2 Minerals.
3
4

What comes after minerals or are there things in-between?

Well, going back to the start of of the universe.

1. Quarks & electrons
2. Protons & neutrons
3. Ions
4. Atoms of hydrogen and helium
5. PP and CNO processes in stars produce atoms of carbon, nitrogen and oxygen
6. Supernovae create more elements, spread these atoms of gas where they cool into methane, ammonia, water and weirder small organic molecules.
7. Nonorganic elements condense into dust minerals including calcium aluminates and forsterite and nanodiamonds, later silicates.
8. Heat polymerises organic molecules into amino acids, lipids and similar.
9. Loss of water gives polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, asphaltenes, tholins, kerogens. Bilayer membranes and cell-like structures form. Proteins.
10. Loss of hydrogen gives HCN, carbohydrates, phosphate, carbonate, nucleic acids
11. Polymerisation gives complex carbohydrates, lignin, cAMP, ATP, NADPH, RNA
12. Bacteria / Archaea.

A map of how elements, molecules, amino acids and proteins etc form would be useful for discovering life.

Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Particularly when applied to samples from Titan, other Moons of Jupiter, Saturn etc., The giant planets themselves. Meteorites. samples from Ryugu and Bennu, space dust. And also extrasolar planetary atmospheres and brown dwarfs of spectral class T and Y.

At the very least, it would be useful for understanding the colours of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto.