>>It’s currently believed that Aboriginal ancestors made their way to Australia as long as 65,000 years ago, but new evidence uncovered at a dig site in the continent’s southeast may push the timeline back much further. If the site does turn out to be human-made, it suggests that people have been living in Australia for as long as 120,000 years.

The place of interest, known as the Moyjil site, is located in the city of Warrnambool, Victoria. Archaeologists have been investigating the area for over a decade, and the basis for these extraordinary claims is a mound of materials including sand, seashells and stones.<<

>>But there are quite a few caveats to these claims. For one, there’s every chance that the mounds aren’t middens at all, but natural formations of some kind. Definitive proof of human occupation from that era, such as tools or bones, have yet to be found.<<

https://newatlas.com/dig-site-australia-humans-moyjil/58886/

PermeateFree said:

>>It’s currently believed that Aboriginal ancestors made their way to Australia as long as 65,000 years ago, but new evidence uncovered at a dig site in the continent’s southeast may push the timeline back much further. If the site does turn out to be human-made, it suggests that people have been living in Australia for as long as 120,000 years.

The place of interest, known as the Moyjil site, is located in the city of Warrnambool, Victoria. Archaeologists have been investigating the area for over a decade, and the basis for these extraordinary claims is a mound of materials including sand, seashells and stones.<<

>>But there are quite a few caveats to these claims. For one, there’s every chance that the mounds aren’t middens at all, but natural formations of some kind. Definitive proof of human occupation from that era, such as tools or bones, have yet to be found.<<

https://newatlas.com/dig-site-australia-humans-moyjil/58886/

It would be even more interesting if they evolved here and didn’t migrate from elsewhere

Thanks for this. I heard it on the radio and in the visit to Melbourne forgot to get back to look it up.

PermeateFree said:

>>It’s currently believed that Aboriginal ancestors made their way to Australia as long as 65,000 years ago, but new evidence uncovered at a dig site in the continent’s southeast may push the timeline back much further. If the site does turn out to be human-made, it suggests that people have been living in Australia for as long as 120,000 years.

The place of interest, known as the Moyjil site, is located in the city of Warrnambool, Victoria. Archaeologists have been investigating the area for over a decade, and the basis for these extraordinary claims is a mound of materials including sand, seashells and stones.<<

>>But there are quite a few caveats to these claims. For one, there’s every chance that the mounds aren’t middens at all, but natural formations of some kind. Definitive proof of human occupation from that era, such as tools or bones, have yet to be found.<<

https://newatlas.com/dig-site-australia-humans-moyjil/58886/

Cheers. One to keep an eye on.

This would re-write a lot of history text books. Significantly.

It is generally thought that the out of Africa migration which colonised the whole earth with homo sapiens started around 70-80 thousand years ago, with some significant population bottlenecks before this time that almost lead to the extinction of the human species. There seems to have been an earlier wave that got as far as the middle-east but then died out leaving only the humans then in Africa as the surviving group, from which all other migrations are derived.

So, no evidence of humans, but could be humans?

Surely over 70K years or so we would expect specation and therefore a separate line of humanity?

poikilotherm said:

So, no evidence of humans, but could be humans?

Midden like deposits that are usually associated with human activity, but not necessarily so.

party_pants said:

This would re-write a lot of history text books. Significantly.

It is generally thought that the out of Africa migration which colonised the whole earth with homo sapiens started around 70-80 thousand years ago, with some significant population bottlenecks before this time that almost lead to the extinction of the human species. There seems to have been an earlier wave that got as far as the middle-east but then died out leaving only the humans then in Africa as the surviving group, from which all other migrations are derived.

Interesting, isn’t it. But they don’t seem to know if they are middens or not yet.

sibeen said:

Surely over 70K years or so we would expect specation and therefore a separate line of humanity?

It didn’t happen with our Aborigines compared to us over this period of time, so changes to a slowly evolving mammal in a land of plenty seem unlikely as there is no need to change.

For those who want to read the paper published by The Royal Society of Victoria:

http://www.publish.csiro.au/rs/pdf/RS18003

Michael V said:

For those who want to read the paper published by The Royal Society of Victoria:

http://www.publish.csiro.au/rs/pdf/RS18003

Actually, it’s a whole journal issue, with many papers related to the site. Proceedings of the Royal Society of Victoria Volume 130 Number 2 2018 The Moyjil site, south-west Victoria, Australia.

All papers are accessible via pdf though here:

http://www.publish.csiro.au/rs/issue/9309

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Surely over 70K years or so we would expect specation and therefore a separate line of humanity?

It didn’t happen with our Aborigines compared to us over this period of time, so changes to a slowly evolving mammal in a land of plenty seem unlikely as there is no need to change.

But Aboriginals didn’t arrive in just one wave and always had some contact with the rest of humanity.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

This would re-write a lot of history text books. Significantly.

It is generally thought that the out of Africa migration which colonised the whole earth with homo sapiens started around 70-80 thousand years ago, with some significant population bottlenecks before this time that almost lead to the extinction of the human species. There seems to have been an earlier wave that got as far as the middle-east but then died out leaving only the humans then in Africa as the surviving group, from which all other migrations are derived.

Interesting, isn’t it. But they don’t seem to know if they are middens or not yet.

We will just have to wait and see I guess. This is an area I am intensely interested in, I even watch boring lectures about it on YouTube.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

This would re-write a lot of history text books. Significantly.

It is generally thought that the out of Africa migration which colonised the whole earth with homo sapiens started around 70-80 thousand years ago, with some significant population bottlenecks before this time that almost lead to the extinction of the human species. There seems to have been an earlier wave that got as far as the middle-east but then died out leaving only the humans then in Africa as the surviving group, from which all other migrations are derived.

Interesting, isn’t it. But they don’t seem to know if they are middens or not yet.

We will just have to wait and see I guess. This is an area I am intensely interested in, I even watch boring lectures about it on YouTube.

Even the 60,000 years messes with some of the out of Africa ideas. So if these are middens, that really, really messes with it.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Interesting, isn’t it. But they don’t seem to know if they are middens or not yet.

We will just have to wait and see I guess. This is an area I am intensely interested in, I even watch boring lectures about it on YouTube.

Even the 60,000 years messes with some of the out of Africa ideas. So if these are middens, that really, really messes with it.

It’s fun to get data that changes notions.

:)

buffy said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Interesting, isn’t it. But they don’t seem to know if they are middens or not yet.

We will just have to wait and see I guess. This is an area I am intensely interested in, I even watch boring lectures about it on YouTube.

Even the 60,000 years messes with some of the out of Africa ideas. So if these are middens, that really, really messes with it.

Yes, This is why I like the coastal lifestyle adaptation hypothesis, even the early invention of canoes or rafts. It allows for the rapid spread of humans from the tropical shores of East Africa all the way around to SE Asia just by following the coast and not having to adapt too much to different climate zones and eco-systems.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Interesting, isn’t it. But they don’t seem to know if they are middens or not yet.

We will just have to wait and see I guess. This is an area I am intensely interested in, I even watch boring lectures about it on YouTube.

Even the 60,000 years messes with some of the out of Africa ideas. So if these are middens, that really, really messes with it.

The waves of modern humans coming out of Africa are thought to have begun possibly as long ago as 250,000 years, with various subsequent waves.

So it doesn’t really mess with “out of Africa”, just with this or that proposed chronology regarding which wave ended up where at what time.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

We will just have to wait and see I guess. This is an area I am intensely interested in, I even watch boring lectures about it on YouTube.

Even the 60,000 years messes with some of the out of Africa ideas. So if these are middens, that really, really messes with it.

The waves of modern humans coming out of Africa are thought to have begun possibly as long ago as 250,000 years, with various subsequent waves.

So it doesn’t really mess with “out of Africa”, just with this or that proposed chronology regarding which wave ended up where at what time.

The genetic evidence points to a bottleneck some time between 70-100 thousand years ago, when humans nearly died out save for a small group of a few thousand. It is thought that all modern humans alive today are descendent’s of this group. So it does disrupt the current models quite a bit.

Human were bought here by aliens, the greys, they tweaked us genetically so we could survive on Earth.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

Even the 60,000 years messes with some of the out of Africa ideas. So if these are middens, that really, really messes with it.

The waves of modern humans coming out of Africa are thought to have begun possibly as long ago as 250,000 years, with various subsequent waves.

So it doesn’t really mess with “out of Africa”, just with this or that proposed chronology regarding which wave ended up where at what time.

The genetic evidence points to a bottleneck some time between 70-100 thousand years ago, when humans nearly died out save for a small group of a few thousand. It is thought that all modern humans alive today are descendent’s of this group. So it does disrupt the current models quite a bit.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the “recent origin” hardliners have to say about these claims.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

The waves of modern humans coming out of Africa are thought to have begun possibly as long ago as 250,000 years, with various subsequent waves.

So it doesn’t really mess with “out of Africa”, just with this or that proposed chronology regarding which wave ended up where at what time.

The genetic evidence points to a bottleneck some time between 70-100 thousand years ago, when humans nearly died out save for a small group of a few thousand. It is thought that all modern humans alive today are descendent’s of this group. So it does disrupt the current models quite a bit.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the “recent origin” hardliners have to say about these claims.

My guess: “humans may have reached Australia 120,000 years ago but then subsequently died out”.

:)

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

The genetic evidence points to a bottleneck some time between 70-100 thousand years ago, when humans nearly died out save for a small group of a few thousand. It is thought that all modern humans alive today are descendent’s of this group. So it does disrupt the current models quite a bit.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the “recent origin” hardliners have to say about these claims.

My guess: “humans may have reached Australia 120,000 years ago but then subsequently died out”.

:)

They died in a war with the mega fauna

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

The genetic evidence points to a bottleneck some time between 70-100 thousand years ago, when humans nearly died out save for a small group of a few thousand. It is thought that all modern humans alive today are descendent’s of this group. So it does disrupt the current models quite a bit.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what the “recent origin” hardliners have to say about these claims.

My guess: “humans may have reached Australia 120,000 years ago but then subsequently died out”.

:)

Which is feasible enough.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Surely over 70K years or so we would expect specation and therefore a separate line of humanity?

It didn’t happen with our Aborigines compared to us over this period of time, so changes to a slowly evolving mammal in a land of plenty seem unlikely as there is no need to change.

But Aboriginals didn’t arrive in just one wave and always had some contact with the rest of humanity.

I dispute always had contact. Once they were here, they could hardly go visiting others. They’d likely have to wait uhtil others visited.

The people in this area of Western Victoria have a language possibly only about 5,000 years old (! Egypt eat your heart out!!) They have stories of the Old People who are believed to have been the people here during the last Ice Age. But that only really takes you back about 10,000 years. Carbon dating from the rock shelters goes back about 20-30,000 if my memory serves me correctly. The people here at European settlement also had stories of the volcanoes blowing.

Mt Rouse here in Penshurst formed about 2 million years ago and may have been one of the first in this area
Mt Napier over near Macarthur is one of the youngest, last erupted about 32,000 years ago.
Mt Eccles, again over near Macarthur is even younger, 8,000 years ago.
Tower Hill near Warrnambool was 33,000 years.

It’s always fascinated me.

buffy said:

The people in this area of Western Victoria have a language possibly only about 5,000 years old (! Egypt eat your heart out!!) They have stories of the Old People who are believed to have been the people here during the last Ice Age. But that only really takes you back about 10,000 years. Carbon dating from the rock shelters goes back about 20-30,000 if my memory serves me correctly. The people here at European settlement also had stories of the volcanoes blowing.

Mt Rouse here in Penshurst formed about 2 million years ago and may have been one of the first in this area
Mt Napier over near Macarthur is one of the youngest, last erupted about 32,000 years ago.
Mt Eccles, again over near Macarthur is even younger, 8,000 years ago.
Tower Hill near Warrnambool was 33,000 years.

It’s always fascinated me.

The length of time people have been on this Continent, has in human terms been astronomical. Just think we (Europeans) have been here for only around 250 years and consider all the things that have happened in the world since then. The Romans were around 2,000 years and the Egyptians 5-6,000 years ago. We were all hunter/gatherers 10,000 years ago. Yet the Australian Aborigines has been here at least 65,000 years, so much longer again from all that world history. Always amazing to reduce that huge time scale down to absorbable proportions, as it is all too easy to throw that figure around without much thought as to its real meaning.

PermeateFree said:

buffy said:

The people in this area of Western Victoria have a language possibly only about 5,000 years old (! Egypt eat your heart out!!) They have stories of the Old People who are believed to have been the people here during the last Ice Age. But that only really takes you back about 10,000 years. Carbon dating from the rock shelters goes back about 20-30,000 if my memory serves me correctly. The people here at European settlement also had stories of the volcanoes blowing.

Mt Rouse here in Penshurst formed about 2 million years ago and may have been one of the first in this area
Mt Napier over near Macarthur is one of the youngest, last erupted about 32,000 years ago.
Mt Eccles, again over near Macarthur is even younger, 8,000 years ago.
Tower Hill near Warrnambool was 33,000 years.

It’s always fascinated me.

The length of time people have been on this Continent, has in human terms been astronomical. Just think we (Europeans) have been here for only around 250 years and consider all the things that have happened in the world since then. The Romans were around 2,000 years and the Egyptians 5-6,000 years ago. We were all hunter/gatherers 10,000 years ago. Yet the Australian Aborigines has been here at least 65,000 years, so much longer again from all that world history. Always amazing to reduce that huge time scale down to absorbable proportions, as it is all too easy to throw that figure around without much thought as to its real meaning.

I find it actually beyond my comprehension. And it saddens me that we didn’t bother to listen to much of the knowledge of how this continent works. Can’t fix it, but it’s still a waste.

buffy said:

The people in this area of Western Victoria have a language possibly only about 5,000 years old (! Egypt eat your heart out!!) They have stories of the Old People who are believed to have been the people here during the last Ice Age. But that only really takes you back about 10,000 years. Carbon dating from the rock shelters goes back about 20-30,000 if my memory serves me correctly. The people here at European settlement also had stories of the volcanoes blowing.

Mt Rouse here in Penshurst formed about 2 million years ago and may have been one of the first in this area
Mt Napier over near Macarthur is one of the youngest, last erupted about 32,000 years ago.
Mt Eccles, again over near Macarthur is even younger, 8,000 years ago.
Tower Hill near Warrnambool was 33,000 years.

It’s always fascinated me.

Yes.

PermeateFree said:

buffy said:

The people in this area of Western Victoria have a language possibly only about 5,000 years old (! Egypt eat your heart out!!) They have stories of the Old People who are believed to have been the people here during the last Ice Age. But that only really takes you back about 10,000 years. Carbon dating from the rock shelters goes back about 20-30,000 if my memory serves me correctly. The people here at European settlement also had stories of the volcanoes blowing.

Mt Rouse here in Penshurst formed about 2 million years ago and may have been one of the first in this area
Mt Napier over near Macarthur is one of the youngest, last erupted about 32,000 years ago.
Mt Eccles, again over near Macarthur is even younger, 8,000 years ago.
Tower Hill near Warrnambool was 33,000 years.

It’s always fascinated me.

The length of time people have been on this Continent, has in human terms been astronomical. Just think we (Europeans) have been here for only around 250 years and consider all the things that have happened in the world since then. The Romans were around 2,000 years and the Egyptians 5-6,000 years ago. We were all hunter/gatherers 10,000 years ago. Yet the Australian Aborigines has been here at least 65,000 years, so much longer again from all that world history. Always amazing to reduce that huge time scale down to absorbable proportions, as it is all too easy to throw that figure around without much thought as to its real meaning.

Yes.

buffy said:

PermeateFree said:

buffy said:

The people in this area of Western Victoria have a language possibly only about 5,000 years old (! Egypt eat your heart out!!) They have stories of the Old People who are believed to have been the people here during the last Ice Age. But that only really takes you back about 10,000 years. Carbon dating from the rock shelters goes back about 20-30,000 if my memory serves me correctly. The people here at European settlement also had stories of the volcanoes blowing.

Mt Rouse here in Penshurst formed about 2 million years ago and may have been one of the first in this area
Mt Napier over near Macarthur is one of the youngest, last erupted about 32,000 years ago.
Mt Eccles, again over near Macarthur is even younger, 8,000 years ago.
Tower Hill near Warrnambool was 33,000 years.

It’s always fascinated me.

The length of time people have been on this Continent, has in human terms been astronomical. Just think we (Europeans) have been here for only around 250 years and consider all the things that have happened in the world since then. The Romans were around 2,000 years and the Egyptians 5-6,000 years ago. We were all hunter/gatherers 10,000 years ago. Yet the Australian Aborigines has been here at least 65,000 years, so much longer again from all that world history. Always amazing to reduce that huge time scale down to absorbable proportions, as it is all too easy to throw that figure around without much thought as to its real meaning.

I find it actually beyond my comprehension. And it saddens me that we didn’t bother to listen to much of the knowledge of how this continent works. Can’t fix it, but it’s still a waste.

Heartily agree.

Humans got to Java an estimated 1,450,000 years ago. The Mojokerto child. Australia isn’t that much further.

Homo floresiensis has been dated as early as 190,000 years old based on tools, or 100,000 years old based on skeletal fossils.