Date: 20/03/2019 16:51:05
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363145
Subject: Starships size comparison

Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

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Date: 20/03/2019 16:54:23
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363148
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

https://www.google.com/search?q=starship+size+comparison

quite a few charts

here is one big one

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Date: 20/03/2019 16:59:06
From: Tamb
ID: 1363151
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


https://www.google.com/search?q=starship+size+comparison

quite a few charts

here is one big one


According to Douglas Adams the greatest starfleet ever assembled was, due to an unfortunate error of scale, swallowed by a small dog.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:00:27
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1363152
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

There is a reference to Eve in there. There was huge battle in that game and they left a permanent ship graveyard as a memorial. It’s an interesting thing to google and has some interesting YouTube grabs of a huge space battle Eve universe style.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:02:46
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363154
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

mollwollfumble said:


Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

I would have thought Discovery One would have been longer than the ISS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_One has the length at 140.1 m ISS is currently at 72.8 m so Discovery is around twice the length of the ISS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spacecraft_from_the_Space_Odyssey_series

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:05:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363155
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

mollwollfumble said:


Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

A lot of spaceships look like steampunk submarines.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:07:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363156
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


mollwollfumble said:

Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

A lot of spaceships look like steampunk submarines.

The trek trek spaceship Enterprise needs a redesign,

I would not like to pilot it or captain it or be its engineer the way it is atm.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:09:45
From: Tamb
ID: 1363157
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

A lot of spaceships look like steampunk submarines.

The trek trek spaceship Enterprise needs a redesign,

I would not like to pilot it or captain it or be its engineer the way it is atm.


Why not? It is not meant as a lander.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:14:37
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1363158
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

To my mind a lot of the ships especially military look a bit uncluttered, they should look a bit more like a aircraft carrier, pipes, wires and sealing hatches everywhere.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:16:44
From: Tamb
ID: 1363159
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

AwesomeO said:


To my mind a lot of the ships especially military look a bit uncluttered, they should look a bit more like a aircraft carrier, pipes, wires and sealing hatches everywhere.

More like submarines. As few openings in the pressure hull as possible.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:17:43
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1363161
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tamb said:


AwesomeO said:

To my mind a lot of the ships especially military look a bit uncluttered, they should look a bit more like a aircraft carrier, pipes, wires and sealing hatches everywhere.

More like submarines. As few openings in the pressure hull as possible.

yeah, cos why do you want to go outside?

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:21:56
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363162
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A lot of spaceships look like steampunk submarines.

The trek trek spaceship Enterprise needs a redesign,

I would not like to pilot it or captain it or be its engineer the way it is atm.


Why not? It is not meant as a lander.

Ok, true

but I wonder how many fictional spaceships designed for landing could survive reentry ?

Death Star is also not designed for landing

but a smaller one could be

symmetrical not so easy to destroy like a long elongated submarine

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:24:29
From: Tamb
ID: 1363164
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

ChrispenEvan said:


Tamb said:

AwesomeO said:

To my mind a lot of the ships especially military look a bit uncluttered, they should look a bit more like a aircraft carrier, pipes, wires and sealing hatches everywhere.

More like submarines. As few openings in the pressure hull as possible.

yeah, cos why do you want to go outside?

I said as few as possible, not none.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:26:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363166
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

I’d prefer a spheroid spaceship, but a triangular shape wouldn’t be so bad, like the imperial star destroyers but without the top bit.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:28:42
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1363168
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tamb said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tamb said:

More like submarines. As few openings in the pressure hull as possible.

yeah, cos why do you want to go outside?

I said as few as possible, not none.

i realise that, but like a sub you rarely need to go outside when it is working, ie underwater.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:30:32
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363170
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:30:41
From: Tamb
ID: 1363171
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

ChrispenEvan said:


Tamb said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yeah, cos why do you want to go outside?

I said as few as possible, not none.

i realise that, but like a sub you rarely need to go outside when it is working, ie underwater.


In a spaceship’s case all excursions outside are into vacuum.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:32:08
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1363173
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tamb said:


ChrispenEvan said:

Tamb said:

I said as few as possible, not none.

i realise that, but like a sub you rarely need to go outside when it is working, ie underwater.


In a spaceship’s case all excursions outside are into vacuum.

yes. i am not sure what the problem is. i am agreeing with you.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:33:40
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363175
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

Submarine shape?

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:34:35
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363177
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

How Fast Are Spaceships In ‘The Expanse’?

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:36:29
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1363178
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

Submarine shape?

submarines are hydrodynamic. unless the spaceship is going into non-vacuum space then any shape that is convenient. just have to take into consideration whether you want a straight line ship or a highly manoeuvrable one.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:36:54
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363179
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Top Five Sci-Fi Carriers

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:37:40
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1363181
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

One that efficiently packages engines, fuel, sensors and weapons. No point in up, down etc, they would be made in space so manufacturing methods would have a say. Internal navigation about the ship would probably require a plan that humans can work with so makes sense to have a single place and a front and back.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:40:25
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1363182
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

AwesomeO said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

One that efficiently packages engines, fuel, sensors and weapons. No point in up, down etc, they would be made in space so manufacturing methods would have a say. Internal navigation about the ship would probably require a plan that humans can work with so makes sense to have a single place and a front and back.

Single plane that is.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:42:59
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363184
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

AwesomeO said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

One that efficiently packages engines, fuel, sensors and weapons. No point in up, down etc, they would be made in space so manufacturing methods would have a say. Internal navigation about the ship would probably require a plan that humans can work with so makes sense to have a single place and a front and back.

A spheroid spaceship that can use engines from multiple positions around itself.

defensive avoidance of any asteroids that want to get in the way or enemy weapons fire

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:42:59
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1363185
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

And if it is military that would effect the design, all information would be via sensors so the bridge would be deep inside and like an onion outside layerers would be in ascending orders of importance, might be that stacked around all the outside is food stores to act as further armour and protection to the delicate gear and most important functions.

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Date: 20/03/2019 17:48:32
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363187
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

AwesomeO said:


And if it is military that would effect the design, all information would be via sensors so the bridge would be deep inside and like an onion outside layerers would be in ascending orders of importance, might be that stacked around all the outside is food stores to act as further armour and protection to the delicate gear and most important functions.

Yes bridge views could be replicated somewhere deep inside

Not like the enterprise with its bridge at the top, silly idea that is.

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Date: 21/03/2019 12:34:19
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363541
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I wonder what the ideal spaceship shape is?

One that efficiently packages engines, fuel, sensors and weapons. No point in up, down etc, they would be made in space so manufacturing methods would have a say. Internal navigation about the ship would probably require a plan that humans can work with so makes sense to have a single place and a front and back.

A spheroid spaceship that can use engines from multiple positions around itself.

defensive avoidance of any asteroids that want to get in the way or enemy weapons fire

I’ve only come up with very few ideas relating to ideal spacecraft shape.

1. The propulsion system has to either have all its fuel inside (eg. antimatter), or collect fuel from space (eg. ramscoop). In both cases, the engine has to be as far away from the passengers as possible. For human-made starships we can see this in the design for Pioneer II, Voyager 1 and 2, and to a lesser extent in New Horizons and the ISS. In fictional craft we can see it in the Tie fighter, X-wing, Star Trek Enterprise, and others; each of those three have a configuration consistent with a ramscoop, though not optimised for a ramscoop. For onboard fuel we see it in Discovery 1 from 2001 a Space Odyssey and elsewhere.

When the craft is large enough, for example the Death Star, the propulsion source can be far enough away from the population just by being in the centre. The ring in Halo is not particularly consistent with this principle.

2. Any gravity could only be created by spin. Artificial gravity produced any other way is either a myth or a very bad idea (eg. numerous black holes).

Gravity is not an essential, and should never be as strong as 1 g. But small amounts of gravity from spin comes in useful, particularly for house-cleaning. Some of those spacecraft shapes are consistent with spin. Some are not.

The other reason for spin is to even out heating loads from stellar radiation in the vicinity of a star. In Apollo it was called “barbecue mode”.

3. For slow spacecraft, below 30 km/s or so, aerodynamics is irrelevant, so the shape can be arbitrarily nasty, like the ISS or the Reaper. At anything approaching the speed of light, running into a small object at that speed becomes a major problem, so an aerodynamic design is indicated, long and thin.

4. Duplication to allow for major components to be shut down for maintenance without disastrously affecting performance. We can see engine duplication in, for example, the Tie fighter, X-wing and Enterprise.

Not much to go on, I know, but enough to knock out some of the fictional starship designs. So the ideal design would be long an thin craft, with two engines each with nothing in front of them to act as scoops, with allowance for spin along some axis.

Oh no. That would be something like this, from Austin Powers.

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Date: 21/03/2019 13:52:06
From: Obviousman
ID: 1363601
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

mollwollfumble said:


Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

I don’t know about that video but I like the Alexi Leonov from the movie 2010, and the Omega-class destroyers from Babylon 5.

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:06:36
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363642
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


https://www.google.com/search?q=starship+size+comparison

quite a few charts

here is one big one


No Death Star?

Oh, i see, Death Star is too big to fit in the chart.

I can’t see the Enterprise on it, either or Red Dwarf or Orville.

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:38:06
From: furious
ID: 1363650
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

As it is about 6 miles long, or something, and red, the red dwarf stands out and is clearly on that picture. In comparison, the Enterprise is quite small so would be hard to spot but I find it difficult to believe that it wouldn’t be on there. As for the Orville, I don’t know – probably too new…

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:41:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1363653
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Like various Australian cities, New Orleans was/is famous for its iron lace decorations.

Note the futuristic carbon arc lamps and their complicated supports.

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:42:25
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1363654
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Oops, another visit to PWM’s office…

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:42:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1363655
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=starship+size+comparison

quite a few charts

here is one big one


No Death Star?

Oh, i see, Death Star is too big to fit in the chart.

I can’t see the Enterprise on it, either or Red Dwarf or Orville.

Red Dwarf is there

Enterprise is Constitution class, which is listed

Cannot see Orville

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:43:23
From: furious
ID: 1363657
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

All the “Star Trek” ships are located around the yellow circle thing. Doesn’t seem to list them by name, so no Enterprise exactly, but it lists them by class…

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Date: 21/03/2019 15:56:17
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363668
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

furious said:

  • the Enterprise is quite small so would be hard to spot but I find it difficult to believe that it wouldn’t be on there.

All the “Star Trek” ships are located around the yellow circle thing. Doesn’t seem to list them by name, so no Enterprise exactly, but it lists them by class…

> Red Dwarf is there. Enterprise is Constitution class, which is listed. Cannot see Orville

Ah, thank you both.

On a slightly differet topic. Has anybody yet made a Tie fighter model that flies in the Earth’s atmosphere, using the same principle as this to make it fly.

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Date: 21/03/2019 20:35:31
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1363809
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

the borg cubeships

better utilization of space inside

all the equipment inside would fit inside nicely, strange ship shapes are not efficient

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Date: 21/03/2019 22:59:07
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363893
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

wookiemeister said:


the borg cubeships

better utilization of space inside

all the equipment inside would fit inside nicely, strange ship shapes are not efficient

Not a great shape for hitting an asteroid at high sublight speed.

After a more complete look at http://orig03.deviantart.net/494a/f/2014/171/0/1/size_comparison___science_fiction_spaceships_by_dirkloechel-d6lfgdf.jpg , I may have to revise my ideas about spaceship design getting better with time. Very few are optimised for ramscoop operation, if any.

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Date: 22/03/2019 04:04:23
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363945
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Was trying to make sense of the Warhammer 40K designs. They seem to be a mixture of gothic cathedral and machine gun, with a cow catcher on the front.

Turns out the design is 95% weapon and 5% propulsion and docking. Onboard fuel, swivelling thrusters.

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Date: 22/03/2019 04:48:57
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1363948
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

From wiki.

Ships in Eve Online are organized into classes, from tiny frigates only a few dozen meters long to gigantic capital ships up to 17 kilometers long (as large as whole cities). Ships fill different roles and vary in size, speed, hull strength and firepower; smaller ships are generally faster and capable of disabling their targets but lack the damage output necessary to destroy larger ships, while capital ships do very high amounts of damage but have difficulty in striking smaller, mobile targets.

According to their preferred style of play, the player might want their characters to fly a ship with a huge cargo hold, one that is suited for mining, one that has a powerful array of weapons, or a ship that moves quickly through space.

Different combinations of modules. Ships have a wide variety of characteristics, including power grid, CPU, capacitor size and recharge rate, energy shields, armor, maximum velocity, agility.

Small spaceships from Eve Online. All are designed with obvious guns and armour.

———

Another vital general condition in spacecraft design is that the centre of thrust from the main engines must pass directly through the centre of mass of the spacecraft. Because of this, the Enterprise design is screamingly bad. Every time the engines were used it would spin end over end.

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Date: 22/03/2019 18:36:45
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1364262
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

This one I like, looks like the cover art of the E.E. Doc Smith books.

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Date: 22/03/2019 18:50:16
From: Cymek
ID: 1364267
Subject: re: Starships size comparison

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Interesting how the spaceship from 2001 a space odyssey is the same size as the ISS.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Loc7qX7FI

The Orville isn’t there. Neither is Red Dwarf.

I wish i could create computer graphics this good. Sigh.

I suspect that the appearance of spaceships has become more realistic with time. In opposition to the appearance of aliens, which has become less realistic with time.

Which do you think is the most realistic SciFi spaceship in this video, and why?

A lot of spaceships look like steampunk submarines.

The trek trek spaceship Enterprise needs a redesign,

I would not like to pilot it or captain it or be its engineer the way it is atm.

Many starships seem to follow naval vessels with the bridge/control centre on top of the ship all vulnerable and easy destroyed instead of burying in in the centre of ship covered with numerous layers of armor

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