I’ve always assumed that those people who got assassinated were, with a few exceptions, bad people.

But tonight I started wondering if the exact opposite it true. It seems more as if those who survive assassination attempts tend to be the bad people and those who get assassinated for political reasons are the good people.

Start the list of good people assassinated with:
Julius Caesar
Lincoln
Martin Luther King
Gandhi (all three)
Archduke Ferdinand
Trotsky
Kennedy (two)
Yitzhak Rabin

People who survived assassination attempts include:
Hitler
Gaddafi
Reagan
Castro
de Gaulle
Yasser Arafat
Putin

Then in Australia the prime ministers who get deposed (or die suddenly) tend to be the best ones:
Holt
Whitlam
Hawke
Rudd
Turnbull

Whereas those who survive attempts to depose them seem to be the bad ones:
Menzies

I’m fuzzy on the good/bad thing. What do you mean, “ bad”?

Ian said:

I’m fuzzy on the good/bad thing. What do you mean, “ bad”?

The fuzziness is deliberate. Interpret it however way you like.

I was going to post this in chat, but it sort of fits here.

I have just seen Yusuf Islam performing a song at the Christchurch memorial service.

I wish they had chosen someone else:

Yusuf Islam on Salman Rushdie

Should I get over it?

Or is it right to object to someone like Islam performing at such an event?

The Rev Dodgson said:

I was going to post this in chat, but it sort of fits here.

I have just seen Yusuf Islam performing a song at the Christchurch memorial service.

I wish they had chosen someone else:

Yusuf Islam on Salman Rushdie

Should I get over it?

Or is it right to object to someone like Islam performing at such an event?

I’m not happy with it but I suppose it’s none of my business.

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I was going to post this in chat, but it sort of fits here.

I have just seen Yusuf Islam performing a song at the Christchurch memorial service.

I wish they had chosen someone else:

Yusuf Islam on Salman Rushdie

Should I get over it?

Or is it right to object to someone like Islam performing at such an event?

I’m not happy with it but I suppose it’s none of my business.

I suppose so.

I just wish they’d chosen Richard Thompson instead.

mollwollfumble said:

Ian said:

I’m fuzzy on the good/bad thing. What do you mean, “ bad”?

The fuzziness is deliberate. Interpret it however way you like.

It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ian said:

I’m fuzzy on the good/bad thing. What do you mean, “ bad”?

The fuzziness is deliberate. Interpret it however way you like.

It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

Not to mention Trotsky.

I’m not sure that even a fuzzy good/bad line covers it.

Has to be a multi-dimensional continuum.

The Rev Dodgson said:

sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

The fuzziness is deliberate. Interpret it however way you like.

It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

Not to mention Trotsky.

I’m not sure that even a fuzzy good/bad line covers it.

Has to be a multi-dimensional continuum.

It’s just a bit of nonsense and floss. To even consider this bit of brain implosion is a waste.

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

sibeen said:

It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

Not to mention Trotsky.

I’m not sure that even a fuzzy good/bad line covers it.

Has to be a multi-dimensional continuum.

It’s just a bit of nonsense and floss. To even consider this bit of brain implosion is a waste.

Ya. There’s good and bad in everyone….

..maybe not Hilter

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

sibeen said:

It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

Not to mention Trotsky.

I’m not sure that even a fuzzy good/bad line covers it.

Has to be a multi-dimensional continuum.

It’s just a bit of nonsense and floss. To even consider this bit of brain implosion is a waste.

I wouldn’t go that far :)

> It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

Oh, sure. But he did design the harbour works for Rome among better known accomplishments. It was the people who he was good to that done him in.

> Not to mention Trotsky.

Had a heck of a lot a better morality than Lenin, IMO.

mollwollfumble said:

> It has to be fuzzy if Julius Caesar gets to go into the good column.

Oh, sure. But he did design the harbour works for Rome among better known accomplishments. It was the people who he was good to that done him in.

> Not to mention Trotsky.

Had a heck of a lot a better morality than Lenin, IMO.

Comrade DV will be along shortly to sing Trotsky’s praises.

Perhaps the “bad” people survive as they expect it and have some sort of contingency set up to prevent or minimise an attempt.
The good people die as the assassination is carried out at a state sponsored level and more resources are available for it to succeed, whilst the bad ones don’t die as it’s internecine fighting and people are playing one against another without actually wanting either to win.

Or it could be just be luck

Cymek said:

Perhaps the “bad” people survive as they expect it and have some sort of contingency set up to prevent or minimise an attempt.
The good people die as the assassination is carried out at a state sponsored level and more resources are available for it to succeed, whilst the bad ones don’t die as it’s internecine fighting and people are playing one against another without actually wanting either to win.

Or it could be just be luck

Agree

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps the “bad” people survive as they expect it and have some sort of contingency set up to prevent or minimise an attempt.
The good people die as the assassination is carried out at a state sponsored level and more resources are available for it to succeed, whilst the bad ones don’t die as it’s internecine fighting and people are playing one against another without actually wanting either to win.

Or it could be just be luck

Agree

You do wonder how many deaths of leaders are done by foreign governments as part of foreign policy to destabilise a nation or install a puppet or at least friendlier leader to said nation but is actually an extremely bad person.

Cymek said:

You do wonder how many deaths of leaders are done by foreign governments as part of foreign policy to destabilise a nation or install a puppet or at least friendlier leader to said nation but is actually an extremely bad person.

Probably not as many as you might imagine. There’s always been a sort of tenuous gentlemens’ agreement that governments don’t specifically target heads of state. You start hiring snipers and such and presidents and PMs etc start going down, and who knows where it’ll end? You (prez or PM in your own country) could be next.

Destabilise their governments, sure, have them deposed by their own people, fine. What happens to them after that, at the hands of their own nationals, well, not your problem or direct doing.

How about a list of those who should be assassinated? We could start with US.

bucolic3401 said:

How about a list of those who should be assassinated? We could start with US.

Go ahead. I’d start with the head of the secret service.

Cymek said:

mollwollfumble said:

Cymek said:

Perhaps the “bad” people survive as they expect it and have some sort of contingency set up to prevent or minimise an attempt.
The good people die as the assassination is carried out at a state sponsored level and more resources are available for it to succeed, whilst the bad ones don’t die as it’s internecine fighting and people are playing one against another without actually wanting either to win.

Or it could be just be luck

Agree

You do wonder how many deaths of leaders are done by foreign governments as part of foreign policy to destabilise a nation or install a puppet or at least friendlier leader to said nation but is actually an extremely bad person.

23 (at a guess), all by the USA.

Philip II of Macedon

assassinated by alexander to secure the throne – phillip was the better king and general. alexander took phillips army to persia after his death, the battle tactics were all from phillip. phillip fought to secure realistic aims, alexander took a successful army and marched them to the edge of the known world for no real purpose. phillip had designs on the persian empire but most likely useful sections sections such as palestine and egypt (the romans took egypt to secure grain for rome).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing

The Brighton hotel bombing was a Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) assassination attempt against the top tier of the British government that occurred on 12 October 1984 at the Grand Brighton Hotel in Brighton, England. A long-delay time bomb was planted in the hotel by IRA member Patrick Magee, with the purpose of killing Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and her cabinet, who were staying at the hotel for the Conservative Party conference. Although Thatcher narrowly escaped the blast, five people connected with the Conservative Party were killed, including a sitting Conservative MP, and 31 were injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma#Assassination

Assassination

Christ in Triumph over Darkness and Evil by Gabriel Loire (1982) at St. George’s Cathedral, Cape Town, South Africa, in memory of Lord Mountbatten
Mountbatten usually holidayed at his summer home, Classiebawn Castle, in Mullaghmore, a small seaside village in County Sligo, Ireland. The village was only 12 miles (19 km) from the border with Northern Ireland and near an area known to be used as a cross-border refuge by IRA members. In 1978, the IRA had allegedly attempted to shoot Mountbatten as he was aboard his boat, but poor weather had prevented the sniper taking his shot.

On 27 August 1979, Mountbatten went lobster-potting and tuna fishing in his 30-foot (9.1 m) wooden boat, Shadow V, which had been moored in the harbour at Mullaghmore. IRA member Thomas McMahon had slipped onto the unguarded boat that night and attached a radio-controlled bomb weighing 50 pounds (23 kg). When Mountbatten was aboard, just a few hundred yards from the shore, the bomb was detonated. The boat was destroyed by the force of the blast, and Mountbatten’s legs were almost blown off. Mountbatten, then aged 79, was pulled alive from the water by nearby fishermen, but died from his injuries before being brought to shore. Also aboard the boat were his elder daughter Patricia (Lady Brabourne), her husband John (Lord Brabourne), their twin sons Nicholas and Timothy Knatchbull, John’s mother Doreen, (dowager) Lady Brabourne, and Paul Maxwell, a young crew member from County Fermanagh. Nicholas (aged 14) and Paul (aged 15) were killed by the blast and the others were seriously injured. Doreen, Lady Brabourne (aged 83) died from her injuries the following day.

it used to be that if you did a straight month in northern ireland you’d get a medal

wookiemeister said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma#Assassination

Assassination

Christ in Triumph over Darkness and Evil by Gabriel Loire (1982) at St. George’s Cathedral, Cape Town, South Africa, in memory of Lord Mountbatten
Mountbatten usually holidayed at his summer home, Classiebawn Castle, in Mullaghmore, a small seaside village in County Sligo, Ireland. The village was only 12 miles (19 km) from the border with Northern Ireland and near an area known to be used as a cross-border refuge by IRA members. In 1978, the IRA had allegedly attempted to shoot Mountbatten as he was aboard his boat, but poor weather had prevented the sniper taking his shot.

On 27 August 1979, Mountbatten went lobster-potting and tuna fishing in his 30-foot (9.1 m) wooden boat, Shadow V, which had been moored in the harbour at Mullaghmore. IRA member Thomas McMahon had slipped onto the unguarded boat that night and attached a radio-controlled bomb weighing 50 pounds (23 kg). When Mountbatten was aboard, just a few hundred yards from the shore, the bomb was detonated. The boat was destroyed by the force of the blast, and Mountbatten’s legs were almost blown off. Mountbatten, then aged 79, was pulled alive from the water by nearby fishermen, but died from his injuries before being brought to shore. Also aboard the boat were his elder daughter Patricia (Lady Brabourne), her husband John (Lord Brabourne), their twin sons Nicholas and Timothy Knatchbull, John’s mother Doreen, (dowager) Lady Brabourne, and Paul Maxwell, a young crew member from County Fermanagh. Nicholas (aged 14) and Paul (aged 15) were killed by the blast and the others were seriously injured. Doreen, Lady Brabourne (aged 83) died from her injuries the following day.

I wonder what they yell before blowing things up, Fergus is Great maybe.

Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma#Assassination

Assassination

Christ in Triumph over Darkness and Evil by Gabriel Loire (1982) at St. George’s Cathedral, Cape Town, South Africa, in memory of Lord Mountbatten
Mountbatten usually holidayed at his summer home, Classiebawn Castle, in Mullaghmore, a small seaside village in County Sligo, Ireland. The village was only 12 miles (19 km) from the border with Northern Ireland and near an area known to be used as a cross-border refuge by IRA members. In 1978, the IRA had allegedly attempted to shoot Mountbatten as he was aboard his boat, but poor weather had prevented the sniper taking his shot.

On 27 August 1979, Mountbatten went lobster-potting and tuna fishing in his 30-foot (9.1 m) wooden boat, Shadow V, which had been moored in the harbour at Mullaghmore. IRA member Thomas McMahon had slipped onto the unguarded boat that night and attached a radio-controlled bomb weighing 50 pounds (23 kg). When Mountbatten was aboard, just a few hundred yards from the shore, the bomb was detonated. The boat was destroyed by the force of the blast, and Mountbatten’s legs were almost blown off. Mountbatten, then aged 79, was pulled alive from the water by nearby fishermen, but died from his injuries before being brought to shore. Also aboard the boat were his elder daughter Patricia (Lady Brabourne), her husband John (Lord Brabourne), their twin sons Nicholas and Timothy Knatchbull, John’s mother Doreen, (dowager) Lady Brabourne, and Paul Maxwell, a young crew member from County Fermanagh. Nicholas (aged 14) and Paul (aged 15) were killed by the blast and the others were seriously injured. Doreen, Lady Brabourne (aged 83) died from her injuries the following day.

I wonder what they yell before blowing things up, Fergus is Great maybe.

up the irish !!

the irish weren’t known for suicide bombings – they aren’t that stupid

when they did blow themselves up it was down to bad bomb design or the british driving around triggering the detonation circuit via RF

one bloke blew up on the top deck of a bus years ago

PIRA became paranoid of the british triggering more complex circuits so opted for simplicity and reliability – clockwork attached to a simple electrical circuit, this was either a device housed in a wooden box or using analogue watches and the hour / minute hand. clockwork allowed a simple visual confirmation that the circuit couldn’t ba accidentally triggered

miltary intelligence finally was able to infiltrate the main body of PIRA via an irishman of italian background with a criminal background (codename “steak knife i believe)

by infiltrating and knocking out the main body PIRA splintered (though PIRA had already taken precautions years ago by to some extent by creating small contained groups with no knowledge of other groups – if the head was infected and compromised it lessened the damage to the existing PIRA network)

wookiemeister said:

Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma#Assassination

Assassination

Christ in Triumph over Darkness and Evil by Gabriel Loire (1982) at St. George’s Cathedral, Cape Town, South Africa, in memory of Lord Mountbatten
Mountbatten usually holidayed at his summer home, Classiebawn Castle, in Mullaghmore, a small seaside village in County Sligo, Ireland. The village was only 12 miles (19 km) from the border with Northern Ireland and near an area known to be used as a cross-border refuge by IRA members. In 1978, the IRA had allegedly attempted to shoot Mountbatten as he was aboard his boat, but poor weather had prevented the sniper taking his shot.

On 27 August 1979, Mountbatten went lobster-potting and tuna fishing in his 30-foot (9.1 m) wooden boat, Shadow V, which had been moored in the harbour at Mullaghmore. IRA member Thomas McMahon had slipped onto the unguarded boat that night and attached a radio-controlled bomb weighing 50 pounds (23 kg). When Mountbatten was aboard, just a few hundred yards from the shore, the bomb was detonated. The boat was destroyed by the force of the blast, and Mountbatten’s legs were almost blown off. Mountbatten, then aged 79, was pulled alive from the water by nearby fishermen, but died from his injuries before being brought to shore. Also aboard the boat were his elder daughter Patricia (Lady Brabourne), her husband John (Lord Brabourne), their twin sons Nicholas and Timothy Knatchbull, John’s mother Doreen, (dowager) Lady Brabourne, and Paul Maxwell, a young crew member from County Fermanagh. Nicholas (aged 14) and Paul (aged 15) were killed by the blast and the others were seriously injured. Doreen, Lady Brabourne (aged 83) died from her injuries the following day.

I wonder what they yell before blowing things up, Fergus is Great maybe.

up the irish !!

the irish weren’t known for suicide bombings – they aren’t that stupid

when they did blow themselves up it was down to bad bomb design or the british driving around triggering the detonation circuit via RF

one bloke blew up on the top deck of a bus years ago

PIRA became paranoid of the british triggering more complex circuits so opted for simplicity and reliability – clockwork attached to a simple electrical circuit, this was either a device housed in a wooden box or using analogue watches and the hour / minute hand. clockwork allowed a simple visual confirmation that the circuit couldn’t ba accidentally triggered

> It seems more as if those who survive assassination attempts tend to be the bad people and those who get assassinated for political reasons are the good people.

So Thatcher survived assassination – that figures.

mollwollfumble said:

wookiemeister said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I wonder what they yell before blowing things up, Fergus is Great maybe.

up the irish !!

the irish weren’t known for suicide bombings – they aren’t that stupid

when they did blow themselves up it was down to bad bomb design or the british driving around triggering the detonation circuit via RF

one bloke blew up on the top deck of a bus years ago

PIRA became paranoid of the british triggering more complex circuits so opted for simplicity and reliability – clockwork attached to a simple electrical circuit, this was either a device housed in a wooden box or using analogue watches and the hour / minute hand. clockwork allowed a simple visual confirmation that the circuit couldn’t ba accidentally triggered

> It seems more as if those who survive assassination attempts tend to be the bad people and those who get assassinated for political reasons are the good people.

So Thatcher survived assassination – that figures.

sheer dumb luck i’d say

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve always assumed that those people who got assassinated were, with a few exceptions, bad people.

What a very strange person you are.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve always assumed that those people who got assassinated were, with a few exceptions, bad people.

What a very strange person you are.

Are you confusing “strange” with “naive”?

Naive in believing that justice more common than injustice?

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve always assumed that those people who got assassinated were, with a few exceptions, bad people.

What a very strange person you are.

Are you confusing “strange” with “naive”?

Naive in believing that justice more common than injustice?

Most of the famous assassinations have been of notoriously good people.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

What a very strange person you are.

Are you confusing “strange” with “naive”?

Naive in believing that justice more common than injustice?

Most of the famous assassinations have been of notoriously good people.

Yeah, I hadn’t noticed. I was thinking of the people that I’d like to kill, they tend not to be good people.