If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Tau.Neutrino said:
If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Stars don’t ‘burn hydrogen’ they fuse it. Turn it into helium, which as far as I know is not one of the constitute elements of water.
sibeen said:
Tau.Neutrino said:If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Stars don’t ‘burn hydrogen’ they fuse it. Turn it into helium, which as far as I know is not one of the constitute elements of water.
Yes,
I was confused by an article I had read and partly forgotten
this one
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/06/110613-space-science-star-water-bullets-kristensen/
re reading it
After tracing the paths of these atoms, the team concluded that water forms on the star, where temperatures are a few thousand degrees Celsius. But once the droplets enter the outward-spewing jets of gas, 180,000-degree-Fahrenheit (100,000-degree-Cels
Water forms on the surface of the sun then is taken by another process (jets) further into space
Should have re read it first then posted the thread.
ok I think the question still stands with the correction.
If stars produce water as a product of fusion is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m thinking that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Tau.Neutrino said:
If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Correct.
mollwollfumble said:
Tau.Neutrino said:If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Correct.
Thanks.
Tau.Neutrino said:
If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
No.
The Sun doesn’t produce water. It doesn’t create hydrogen, or oxygen, and those are the two components of water.
Also, the Earth was formed out of material that had been produced by earlier stars. Some of that was water, yes.
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
No.
The Sun doesn’t produce water. It doesn’t create hydrogen, or oxygen, and those are the two components of water.Also, the Earth was formed out of material that had been produced by earlier stars. Some of that was water, yes.
Over time wouldn’t water be split into hydrogen and oxygen by cosmic rays
Cymek said:
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
No.
The Sun doesn’t produce water. It doesn’t create hydrogen, or oxygen, and those are the two components of water.Also, the Earth was formed out of material that had been produced by earlier stars. Some of that was water, yes.
Over time wouldn’t water be split into hydrogen and oxygen by cosmic rays
That’s a process that can occur but almost all cosmic rays are blocked by the atmosphere.
dv said:
Cymek said:
dv said:No.
The Sun doesn’t produce water. It doesn’t create hydrogen, or oxygen, and those are the two components of water.Also, the Earth was formed out of material that had been produced by earlier stars. Some of that was water, yes.
Over time wouldn’t water be split into hydrogen and oxygen by cosmic rays
That’s a process that can occur but almost all cosmic rays are blocked by the atmosphere.
I meant water in space
dv said:
Cymek said:
dv said:No.
The Sun doesn’t produce water. It doesn’t create hydrogen, or oxygen, and those are the two components of water.Also, the Earth was formed out of material that had been produced by earlier stars. Some of that was water, yes.
Over time wouldn’t water be split into hydrogen and oxygen by cosmic rays
That’s a process that can occur but almost all cosmic rays are blocked by the atmosphere.
The article does not say if the water is being created inside the star, on its surface or in its atmosphere,
So perhaps the water is being created in the upper atmosphere of stars becomes superheated gas then settles of the surface of the star as superheated gas then gets blasted into space by the stars jets to become water again ?
mollwollfumble said:
Tau.Neutrino said:If stars produce water as a product of hydrogen burning is it possible that most of Earths water came of the sun in the very early stages of solar system development, in addition to meteorites containing water ?
I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud as the early earth moved through it .
Correct.
I need to clarify that. Yes and no.
> I’m think that the early solar system had a long gas cloud period where the water could collect in the cloud.
Correct. All the Earth’s water came from the gas cloud in the early solar system.
Each asteroid, comet and planetessimal in the early solar system was largely made from this water. This is the water we have today.
How much water was retained on each of these small bodies was partly a matter of chance. Water loss mechanisms include:
The lost water tended to be ionised by UV light from the Sun and blown out of the solar system on the solar wind.
Before the impact that formed the Moon, the Earth had a lot more water than it does today. That impact was catastrophic and resulted in the loss of most of the water from the Earth and virtually all from the Moon.
Subsequent water has come from outgasing from volcanoes (the smaller component) and impact from comets (the major component).
But either way, all of it came from the gas cloud in the early solar system.
Cymek said:
dv said:
Cymek said:Over time wouldn’t water be split into hydrogen and oxygen by cosmic rays
That’s a process that can occur but almost all cosmic rays are blocked by the atmosphere.
I meant water in space
That is a process that takes place.
dv said:
Cymek said:
dv said:That’s a process that can occur but almost all cosmic rays are blocked by the atmosphere.
I meant water in space
That is a process that takes place.
Great roughbarked style phrasing :)
> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/06/110613-space-science-star-water-bullets-kristensen/
“Seven hundred and fifty light-years from Earth, a young, sunlike star has been found with jets that blast epic quantities of water into interstellar space, shooting out droplets that move faster than a speeding bullet. The discovery suggests that protostars may be seeding the universe with water. These stellar embryos shoot jets of material from their north and south poles as their growth is fed by infalling dust that circles the bodies in vast disks.”.
Yes. But that’s interstellar space, not solar system space.
We know this from oxygen isotopes. The isotope ratio for oxygen in our Sun is vastly different to that on Earth, in asteroids and comets. That’s because the oxygen in our water didn’t come from our Sun. It came from extra-solar sources.
The article is very important because it helps to clarify two things. One is it helps to clarify how much of out water came from young stars and how much from supernovae.
The other is it helps to explain were all the water lost by our planets, moons and asteroids went to. Much was ejected in polar jets from the young Sun.
As it happens, i’ve worked with a former CSIRO chap on the mathematics of these jets.
No sure what your question is at this point.
The material from which the earth formed existed before the solar system: it was largely baked in preexisting stars (though also included some prestellar hydrogen of course). Over time, the water started to exsolve from the mantle (a process that is ongoing today) and rose to the surface, both as hydrous lava and as geothermal springs etc.
Additionally, water was brought to earth by comets etc and this is also a process ongoing today.
A bit of water is decomposed into hydrogen and oxygen within the atmosphere, due to various processes, and we lose hydrogen to space. That’s an ongoing process as well, but the general mail is that is a small amount compared to what is arriving at the surface.
sibeen said:
dv said:
Cymek said:I meant water in space
That is a process that takes place.
Great roughbarked style phrasing :)
Cheers
mollwollfumble said:
> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/06/110613-space-science-star-water-bullets-kristensen/“Seven hundred and fifty light-years from Earth, a young, sunlike star has been found with jets that blast epic quantities of water into interstellar space, shooting out droplets that move faster than a speeding bullet. The discovery suggests that protostars may be seeding the universe with water. These stellar embryos shoot jets of material from their north and south poles as their growth is fed by infalling dust that circles the bodies in vast disks.”.
Yes. But that’s interstellar space, not solar system space.
We know this from oxygen isotopes. The isotope ratio for oxygen in our Sun is vastly different to that on Earth, in asteroids and comets. That’s because the oxygen in our water didn’t come from our Sun. It came from extra-solar sources.
The article is very important because it helps to clarify two things. One is it helps to clarify how much of out water came from young stars and how much from supernovae.
The other is it helps to explain were all the water lost by our planets, moons and asteroids went to. Much was ejected in polar jets from the young Sun.
As it happens, i’ve worked with a former CSIRO chap on the mathematics of these jets.
The jets don’t come from the star itself. They come from MHD instabilities in the ions in orbit around the star. There is a critical radius of orbit where the orbital period matches the rotation period of the star (the equivalent of a geostationary orbit above the Earth). MHD effects eject material from this orbit in a wind parallel to the star’s rotation axis. This forms the jet.
mollwollfumble said:
mollwollfumble said:
> https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/06/110613-space-science-star-water-bullets-kristensen/“Seven hundred and fifty light-years from Earth, a young, sunlike star has been found with jets that blast epic quantities of water into interstellar space, shooting out droplets that move faster than a speeding bullet. The discovery suggests that protostars may be seeding the universe with water. These stellar embryos shoot jets of material from their north and south poles as their growth is fed by infalling dust that circles the bodies in vast disks.”.
Yes. But that’s interstellar space, not solar system space.
We know this from oxygen isotopes. The isotope ratio for oxygen in our Sun is vastly different to that on Earth, in asteroids and comets. That’s because the oxygen in our water didn’t come from our Sun. It came from extra-solar sources.
The article is very important because it helps to clarify two things. One is it helps to clarify how much of out water came from young stars and how much from supernovae.
The other is it helps to explain were all the water lost by our planets, moons and asteroids went to. Much was ejected in polar jets from the young Sun.
As it happens, i’ve worked with a former CSIRO chap on the mathematics of these jets.
The jets don’t come from the star itself. They come from MHD instabilities in the ions in orbit around the star. There is a critical radius of orbit where the orbital period matches the rotation period of the star (the equivalent of a geostationary orbit above the Earth). MHD effects eject material from this orbit in a wind parallel to the star’s rotation axis. This forms the jet.
So in that sense, what the article implies is wrong. The protostars are not “seeding the universe with water” because the stars themselves are not generating the water. They are merely ejecting water from their solar nebula. Or to put it another way, they are merely recycling pre-existing water.
Is all water created in space ?
Some articles can lead me to misunderstanding some concepts.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is all water created in space ?
No.
sibeen said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is all water created in space ?No.
We all do our own little bit of water creation when we run an IC engine.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is all water created in space ?
Okay look, let’s think about what we are talking about. Water is a compound, a compound of one extremely common element and one fairly common element. It is a very energetically favourable compound: that is, it is low enthalpy. Oxygen “likes” to bond with a couple of hydrogens. It is therefore fairly stable. You need a pretty good hit of energy to split water up. It can happen naturally: but it is not extremely common.
There was hydrogen before there were stars, but oxygen is only made in stars. When it is in a star, it is too hot to form water. When it is ejected by a star, it will eventually hit a hydrogen atom, and then another one.
The other thing about water is that it “likes” other water. It very stably forms water ices.
Now, does this mean that “all” water is made in space? Not really. Oxygen is also quite comfy being in other compounds but there are natural processes that can liberate oxygen from rocks and other materials. On Earth, photosynthesis has produced an oxygenated atmosphere. There are other biological processes that produce hydrogen, funnily enough, and if those oxygen and hydrogen molecules meet in the atmosphere and encounter a spark of some kind, then they’ll produced new water molecules.
Seems a safe bet, though, that most of the water that exists has been created “in space”.
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is all water created in space ?Okay look, let’s think about what we are talking about. Water is a compound, a compound of one extremely common element and one fairly common element. It is a very energetically favourable compound: that is, it is low enthalpy. Oxygen “likes” to bond with a couple of hydrogens. It is therefore fairly stable. You need a pretty good hit of energy to split water up. It can happen naturally: but it is not extremely common.
There was hydrogen before there were stars, but oxygen is only made in stars. When it is in a star, it is too hot to form water. When it is ejected by a star, it will eventually hit a hydrogen atom, and then another one.
The other thing about water is that it “likes” other water. It very stably forms water ices.
Now, does this mean that “all” water is made in space? Not really. Oxygen is also quite comfy being in other compounds but there are natural processes that can liberate oxygen from rocks and other materials. On Earth, photosynthesis has produced an oxygenated atmosphere. There are other biological processes that produce hydrogen, funnily enough, and if those oxygen and hydrogen molecules meet in the atmosphere and encounter a spark of some kind, then they’ll produced new water molecules.
Seems a safe bet, though, that most of the water that exists has been created “in space”.
Well I has thought that water was being created by a process inside stars. Which I now know is wrong
Thanks to that article confusing me, so the most of the water comes together is space as hydrogen and oxygen, some by other processes.
The water collects on stars, ?
I would have though the solar wind would blow water away
still an interesting article.
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is all water created in space ?Okay look, let’s think about what we are talking about. Water is a compound, a compound of one extremely common element and one fairly common element. It is a very energetically favourable compound: that is, it is low enthalpy. Oxygen “likes” to bond with a couple of hydrogens. It is therefore fairly stable. You need a pretty good hit of energy to split water up. It can happen naturally: but it is not extremely common.
There was hydrogen before there were stars, but oxygen is only made in stars. When it is in a star, it is too hot to form water. When it is ejected by a star, it will eventually hit a hydrogen atom, and then another one.
The other thing about water is that it “likes” other water. It very stably forms water ices.
Now, does this mean that “all” water is made in space? Not really. Oxygen is also quite comfy being in other compounds but there are natural processes that can liberate oxygen from rocks and other materials. On Earth, photosynthesis has produced an oxygenated atmosphere. There are other biological processes that produce hydrogen, funnily enough, and if those oxygen and hydrogen molecules meet in the atmosphere and encounter a spark of some kind, then they’ll produced new water molecules.
Seems a safe bet, though, that most of the water that exists has been created “in space”.
Good point. I had (temporarily) forgotten about the water created by burning and by respiration.
Tau.Neutrino said:
The water collects on stars, ?
No.
Active stars are too hot to host water (or any covalent compunds, really). at those temperatures the oxygen and hydrogen exist separately as ions in a plasma.
Tau.Neutrino said:
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Is all water created in space ?Okay look, let’s think about what we are talking about. Water is a compound, a compound of one extremely common element and one fairly common element. It is a very energetically favourable compound: that is, it is low enthalpy. Oxygen “likes” to bond with a couple of hydrogens. It is therefore fairly stable. You need a pretty good hit of energy to split water up. It can happen naturally: but it is not extremely common.
There was hydrogen before there were stars, but oxygen is only made in stars. When it is in a star, it is too hot to form water. When it is ejected by a star, it will eventually hit a hydrogen atom, and then another one.
The other thing about water is that it “likes” other water. It very stably forms water ices.
Now, does this mean that “all” water is made in space? Not really. Oxygen is also quite comfy being in other compounds but there are natural processes that can liberate oxygen from rocks and other materials. On Earth, photosynthesis has produced an oxygenated atmosphere. There are other biological processes that produce hydrogen, funnily enough, and if those oxygen and hydrogen molecules meet in the atmosphere and encounter a spark of some kind, then they’ll produced new water molecules.
Seems a safe bet, though, that most of the water that exists has been created “in space”.
Well I has thought that water was being created by a process inside stars. Which I now know is wrong
Thanks to that article confusing me, so the most of the water comes together is space as hydrogen and oxygen, some by other processes.
The water collects on stars, ?
I would have though the solar wind would blow water away
still an interesting article.
Some water collects on stars. That’s why we have separate population 1 and population 2 stars. Population 1 stars are those on which carbon, nitrogen and oxygen has collected during their formation process. Population 2 stars formed earlier before there was much water hanging around in space.
But that’s water collecting during formation.
Later, from comets that come too close to the star, water also collects on stars. For our Sun, that includes comets of the Kreutz, Kracht, Marsden and Meyer groups.
Water released as gas or dust further out tends to be blown out of the solar system by the solar wind, like the tails of comets.