Date: 16/06/2019 22:08:54
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400410
Subject: Best laptop

I’m thinking of replacing my lap-top. I need:

At least 15” hi-res screen
At least 1 TB storage
Fast processor (latest i7?)
Good keyboard with number pad (lousy keyboard is the main reason I’m thinking of dumping my Lenovo).

Any recommendations?

What are Dell like these days?

I’ve had a good Toshiba in the past, but it looks like they don’t believe in decent sized hard drives any more.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2019 22:13:39
From: Rule 303
ID: 1400411
Subject: re: Best laptop

I’m using an Asus with 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD. i7 processor. Numerical keypad.

Picked it up about 4 years ago in the Boxing Day sales, and it’s been fantastic, except for one hinge, which needs replacing. Would buy again.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2019 22:27:16
From: Divine Angel
ID: 1400418
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:

Good keyboard with number pad (lousy keyboard is the main reason I’m thinking of dumping my Lenovo).

Ya know, you can just get a wireless keyboard… and an external hard drive… Just sayin’.

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Date: 16/06/2019 22:28:37
From: party_pants
ID: 1400421
Subject: re: Best laptop

I’ve had a good run with HP laptops. Agree on the numpad.

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Date: 16/06/2019 22:31:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1400424
Subject: re: Best laptop

Ive still got my dell inspiron Its 6 years old

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2019 22:43:26
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1400426
Subject: re: Best laptop

this looks interesting

https://www.dell.com/en-au/shop/dell-laptops/inspiron-15-7000/spd/inspiron-15-7580-laptop

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2019 23:07:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1400431
Subject: re: Best laptop

Never owned a laptop, I only buy under-desk machines, minimum 24” monitor.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 04:41:11
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1400490
Subject: re: Best laptop

Don’t know.

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/the-best-laptop-in-australia-our-pick-of-the-best-laptops-you-can-buy-this-year

My old laptop is an Asus and I definitely don’t recommend it. The battery died very fast, so for the past 6 or so years I’ve only been able to use it when plugged into the mains. The old Lenovo tablet I have I also definitely don’t recommend. The on-off button died very fast.

It’s a pity that Choice magazine has died. It used to be good for things like this.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 07:46:05
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400498
Subject: re: Best laptop

Divine Angel said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Good keyboard with number pad (lousy keyboard is the main reason I’m thinking of dumping my Lenovo).

Ya know, you can just get a wireless keyboard… and an external hard drive… Just sayin’.

But then I would need to clear enough space on my desk for keyboard as well as laptop.

Thanks for replies everyone else ;)

Dell link looks a good price.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 07:50:54
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1400500
Subject: re: Best laptop

I’ve never understood the num pad, never used it., never will..
I might even put num pad on my list.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 07:53:23
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400501
Subject: re: Best laptop

mollwollfumble said:


Don’t know.

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/the-best-laptop-in-australia-our-pick-of-the-best-laptops-you-can-buy-this-year

My old laptop is an Asus and I definitely don’t recommend it. The battery died very fast, so for the past 6 or so years I’ve only been able to use it when plugged into the mains. The old Lenovo tablet I have I also definitely don’t recommend. The on-off button died very fast.

It’s a pity that Choice magazine has died. It used to be good for things like this.

I suppose a commercial model that doesn’t use advertising doesn’t really work in the modern world.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 07:55:22
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400502
Subject: re: Best laptop

Peak Warming Man said:


I’ve never understood the num pad, never used it., never will..
I might even put num pad on my list.

They are handy for typing in numbers.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 07:59:12
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1400503
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve never understood the num pad, never used it., never will..
I might even put num pad on my list.

They are handy for typing in numbers.

You may not have spotted this but have a look at the second top row, under the row with all the Fs in it, there’s numbers there.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:02:26
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1400504
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve never understood the num pad, never used it., never will..
I might even put num pad on my list.

They are handy for typing in numbers.

You’re too much of a keyboard worrier.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:05:57
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400505
Subject: re: Best laptop

Peak Warming Man said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve never understood the num pad, never used it., never will..
I might even put num pad on my list.

They are handy for typing in numbers.

You may not have spotted this but have a look at the second top row, under the row with all the Fs in it, there’s numbers there.

I’m using a pad at the moment. I’ll have to check that out later.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:06:38
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1400506
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


I’m thinking of replacing my lap-top. I need:

At least 15” hi-res screen
At least 1 TB storage
Fast processor (latest i7?)
Good keyboard with number pad (lousy keyboard is the main reason I’m thinking of dumping my Lenovo).

Any recommendations?

What are Dell like these days?

I’ve had a good Toshiba in the past, but it looks like they don’t believe in decent sized hard drives any more.

this one

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:08:16
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1400508
Subject: re: Best laptop

Anyway I can recommend ASUS, I’ve had a top of the range one for 10 years or more.
I’ve also got a cheaper Toshiba one, no problems with that one either and it has been hammered.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:08:59
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1400509
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


Peak Warming Man said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

They are handy for typing in numbers.

You may not have spotted this but have a look at the second top row, under the row with all the Fs in it, there’s numbers there.

I’m using a pad at the moment. I’ll have to check that out later.

No worries.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:18:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 1400510
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


mollwollfumble said:

Don’t know.

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/the-best-laptop-in-australia-our-pick-of-the-best-laptops-you-can-buy-this-year

My old laptop is an Asus and I definitely don’t recommend it. The battery died very fast, so for the past 6 or so years I’ve only been able to use it when plugged into the mains. The old Lenovo tablet I have I also definitely don’t recommend. The on-off button died very fast.

It’s a pity that Choice magazine has died. It used to be good for things like this.

I suppose a commercial model that doesn’t use advertising doesn’t really work in the modern world.

https://www.choice.com.au/search?q=best+laptop&page=1

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:28:21
From: Ian
ID: 1400514
Subject: re: Best laptop

Depends how much grunt v weight you want.

These sort of ASUS machines kick bottom..

ROG Mothership GZ700, a sort of portable all-in-one laptop that works as a desktop replacement.

2TB SSD

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:34:13
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1400515
Subject: re: Best laptop

Ian said:


Depends how much grunt v weight you want.

These sort of ASUS machines kick bottom..

ROG Mothership GZ700, a sort of portable all-in-one laptop that works as a desktop replacement.

2TB SSD

Jazus, it aint cheap.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:37:32
From: Ian
ID: 1400516
Subject: re: Best laptop

Peak Warming Man said:


Ian said:

Depends how much grunt v weight you want.

These sort of ASUS machines kick bottom..

ROG Mothership GZ700, a sort of portable all-in-one laptop that works as a desktop replacement.

2TB SSD

Jazus, it aint cheap.

Well if you’re looking to design a better block of units..

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:39:05
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1400517
Subject: re: Best laptop

Peak Warming Man said:


Ian said:

Depends how much grunt v weight you want.

These sort of ASUS machines kick bottom..

ROG Mothership GZ700, a sort of portable all-in-one laptop that works as a desktop replacement.

2TB SSD

Jazus, it aint cheap.

Half the price of the Dell I linked. TRD doesn’t seem to have a budget though.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:52:42
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400521
Subject: re: Best laptop

poikilotherm said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Ian said:

Depends how much grunt v weight you want.

These sort of ASUS machines kick bottom..

ROG Mothership GZ700, a sort of portable all-in-one laptop that works as a desktop replacement.

2TB SSD

Jazus, it aint cheap.

Half the price of the Dell I linked. TRD doesn’t seem to have a budget though.

Budget is < $2000, unless there is a damn good reason for spending more.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 08:59:39
From: buffy
ID: 1400523
Subject: re: Best laptop

mollwollfumble said:


Don’t know.

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/the-best-laptop-in-australia-our-pick-of-the-best-laptops-you-can-buy-this-year

My old laptop is an Asus and I definitely don’t recommend it. The battery died very fast, so for the past 6 or so years I’ve only been able to use it when plugged into the mains. The old Lenovo tablet I have I also definitely don’t recommend. The on-off button died very fast.

It’s a pity that Choice magazine has died. It used to be good for things like this.

What do you mean has died? I still get Choice magazine. And there is a laptop recommendation.

https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-and-technology/computers/desktop-and-laptop-computers/review-and-compare/laptops

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Date: 17/06/2019 09:01:11
From: buffy
ID: 1400524
Subject: re: Best laptop

Oh, I see roughy beat me to it.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:01:32
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400525
Subject: re: Best laptop

poikilotherm said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Ian said:

Depends how much grunt v weight you want.

These sort of ASUS machines kick bottom..

ROG Mothership GZ700, a sort of portable all-in-one laptop that works as a desktop replacement.

2TB SSD

Jazus, it aint cheap.

Half the price of the Dell I linked. TRD doesn’t seem to have a budget though.

Didn’t find a price.

It’s a bit on the heavy side, and:
“This product isn’t available yet. Please subscribe to receive emails from us and we’ll let you know when its available”

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:11:47
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400527
Subject: re: Best laptop

buffy said:


mollwollfumble said:

Don’t know.

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/the-best-laptop-in-australia-our-pick-of-the-best-laptops-you-can-buy-this-year

My old laptop is an Asus and I definitely don’t recommend it. The battery died very fast, so for the past 6 or so years I’ve only been able to use it when plugged into the mains. The old Lenovo tablet I have I also definitely don’t recommend. The on-off button died very fast.

It’s a pity that Choice magazine has died. It used to be good for things like this.

What do you mean has died? I still get Choice magazine. And there is a laptop recommendation.

https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-and-technology/computers/desktop-and-laptop-computers/review-and-compare/laptops

Thanks buffy and roughie.

Although with every feature on every machine rated one padlock, I’m not sure how useful it is.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:13:09
From: buffy
ID: 1400528
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

Don’t know.

https://www.techradar.com/au/news/the-best-laptop-in-australia-our-pick-of-the-best-laptops-you-can-buy-this-year

My old laptop is an Asus and I definitely don’t recommend it. The battery died very fast, so for the past 6 or so years I’ve only been able to use it when plugged into the mains. The old Lenovo tablet I have I also definitely don’t recommend. The on-off button died very fast.

It’s a pity that Choice magazine has died. It used to be good for things like this.

What do you mean has died? I still get Choice magazine. And there is a laptop recommendation.

https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-and-technology/computers/desktop-and-laptop-computers/review-and-compare/laptops

Thanks buffy and roughie.

Although with every feature on every machine rated one padlock, I’m not sure how useful it is.

The padlocks mean you have to be a member to get the information…

There ain’t nuthin for nuthin…

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:14:49
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400529
Subject: re: Best laptop

buffy said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

buffy said:

What do you mean has died? I still get Choice magazine. And there is a laptop recommendation.

https://www.choice.com.au/electronics-and-technology/computers/desktop-and-laptop-computers/review-and-compare/laptops

Thanks buffy and roughie.

Although with every feature on every machine rated one padlock, I’m not sure how useful it is.

The padlocks mean you have to be a member to get the information…

There ain’t nuthin for nuthin…

I know, just my little joke :)

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:24:29
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1400530
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


poikilotherm said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Jazus, it aint cheap.

Half the price of the Dell I linked. TRD doesn’t seem to have a budget though.

Didn’t find a price.

It’s a bit on the heavy side, and:
“This product isn’t available yet. Please subscribe to receive emails from us and we’ll let you know when its available”

Starts at $8k.

My personal preference is for HP laptops, which you should be able to find with those specs under $2k. Just have to clear some ‘junkware’ that hp like putting on them.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:30:38
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1400531
Subject: re: Best laptop

poikilotherm said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

poikilotherm said:

Half the price of the Dell I linked. TRD doesn’t seem to have a budget though.

Didn’t find a price.

It’s a bit on the heavy side, and:
“This product isn’t available yet. Please subscribe to receive emails from us and we’ll let you know when its available”

Starts at $8k.

My personal preference is for HP laptops, which you should be able to find with those specs under $2k. Just have to clear some ‘junkware’ that hp like putting on them.

I’ll give HP a closer look, although TNs half price Dell deal will be hard to beat.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:31:52
From: Ian
ID: 1400532
Subject: re: Best laptop

Choice narrowly gives..

DELL
ASUS
MS

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 09:59:53
From: sibeen
ID: 1400537
Subject: re: Best laptop

HP are good, I have one myself, but if anything goes wrong— aii kurrumba. They are a bastard to pull apart and get to anything.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 10:24:06
From: buffy
ID: 1400544
Subject: re: Best laptop

Ian said:


Choice narrowly gives..

DELL
ASUS
MS

I logged in to Choice, but it still wouldn’t let me read the locked bits.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 10:31:55
From: buffy
ID: 1400548
Subject: re: Best laptop

buffy said:


Ian said:

Choice narrowly gives..

DELL
ASUS
MS

I logged in to Choice, but it still wouldn’t let me read the locked bits.

Never mind…I must have only paid for the print magazine. not online access. I checked in the profile bit and we have Basic Access.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 11:04:59
From: Tamb
ID: 1400558
Subject: re: Best laptop

buffy said:


buffy said:

Ian said:

Choice narrowly gives..

DELL
ASUS
MS

I logged in to Choice, but it still wouldn’t let me read the locked bits.

Never mind…I must have only paid for the print magazine. not online access. I checked in the profile bit and we have Basic Access.

Just bought an ASUS laptop.
Be aware that modern lappies are hard to connect to the net except through wifi.
It didn’t have a DVD player & MS Office was either annual pay Office 365 or buy downloadable Office home & student for $ 198.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 11:18:31
From: Cymek
ID: 1400559
Subject: re: Best laptop

I bought Mrs Cymek the Acer Aspire 5 on special at JBHiFi for $1000, it’s now $1500 which isn’t cheap.
It only has 250 gig SSD but you could use an external drive for extra storage

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers-tablets/laptops/acer/acer-aspire-5-a515-52-78a9-15-6-laptop/363328/

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 11:50:24
From: Tamb
ID: 1400560
Subject: re: Best laptop

Cymek said:


I bought Mrs Cymek the Acer Aspire 5 on special at JBHiFi for $1000, it’s now $1500 which isn’t cheap.
It only has 250 gig SSD but you could use an external drive for extra storage

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers-tablets/laptops/acer/acer-aspire-5-a515-52-78a9-15-6-laptop/363328/


My Acer is so old it is running Vista but is performing faultlessly.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 11:52:57
From: Cymek
ID: 1400561
Subject: re: Best laptop

Tamb said:


Cymek said:

I bought Mrs Cymek the Acer Aspire 5 on special at JBHiFi for $1000, it’s now $1500 which isn’t cheap.
It only has 250 gig SSD but you could use an external drive for extra storage

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers-tablets/laptops/acer/acer-aspire-5-a515-52-78a9-15-6-laptop/363328/


My Acer is so old it is running Vista but is performing faultlessly.

That’s good
I recommend against Alienware, I paid over $3000 for a gaming laptop a number of years ago and it lasted less time than cheaper run of the mill laptops.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 11:56:43
From: Tamb
ID: 1400563
Subject: re: Best laptop

Cymek said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I bought Mrs Cymek the Acer Aspire 5 on special at JBHiFi for $1000, it’s now $1500 which isn’t cheap.
It only has 250 gig SSD but you could use an external drive for extra storage

https://www.jbhifi.com.au/computers-tablets/laptops/acer/acer-aspire-5-a515-52-78a9-15-6-laptop/363328/


My Acer is so old it is running Vista but is performing faultlessly.

That’s good
I recommend against Alienware, I paid over $3000 for a gaming laptop a number of years ago and it lasted less time than cheaper run of the mill laptops.


MkIIs Toshiba Win 7 machine has a non-functioning keyboard which is a bit of a pain. Also it only has 3 USB ports.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 11:58:27
From: Ogmog
ID: 1400566
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


I’m thinking of replacing my lap-top. I need:

Any recommendations?

cnet

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2019 12:03:04
From: Ogmog
ID: 1400567
Subject: re: Best laptop

Ogmog said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m thinking of replacing my lap-top. I need:

Any recommendations?

cnet

cnet:Best Laptops of 2019

Reply Quote

Date: 18/06/2019 22:32:12
From: diddly-squat
ID: 1401373
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


I’m thinking of replacing my lap-top. I need:

At least 15” hi-res screen
At least 1 TB storage
Fast processor (latest i7?)
Good keyboard with number pad (lousy keyboard is the main reason I’m thinking of dumping my Lenovo).

Any recommendations?

What are Dell like these days?

I’ve had a good Toshiba in the past, but it looks like they don’t believe in decent sized hard drives any more.

Rev, we have recently moved to HP at work and a few of my guys have zbooks … worth a browse if you are looking for a “desktop replacement” style machine… they come in 15“and 17” although I think you may struggle finding a laptop that comes standard with a 1TB SSD.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/06/2019 22:49:15
From: sibeen
ID: 1401392
Subject: re: Best laptop

diddly-squat said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m thinking of replacing my lap-top. I need:

At least 15” hi-res screen
At least 1 TB storage
Fast processor (latest i7?)
Good keyboard with number pad (lousy keyboard is the main reason I’m thinking of dumping my Lenovo).

Any recommendations?

What are Dell like these days?

I’ve had a good Toshiba in the past, but it looks like they don’t believe in decent sized hard drives any more.

Rev, we have recently moved to HP at work and a few of my guys have zbooks … worth a browse if you are looking for a “desktop replacement” style machine… they come in 15“and 17” although I think you may struggle finding a laptop that comes standard with a 1TB SSD.

My HP, which is now a few years old is a 17 inch model with dual storage. A 1TB hard drive and a 256GB SSD. The SSD shit itself in January and I replaced it with a 512 GB model. It was an absolute pain in the arse to change the SSD. I’d changed the HD about a year earlier and that wasn’t too difficult.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 03:11:28
From: Ogmog
ID: 1401817
Subject: re: Best laptop

Ogmog said:

cnet

hmmmm
…no feedback about the use of CNET?

Testing & Comparing the Pros & Cons of Tech is “their thing”

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 04:49:24
From: sibeen
ID: 1401819
Subject: re: Best laptop

8 required off the final over.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 10:09:03
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1401868
Subject: re: Best laptop

Ogmog said:


Ogmog said:

cnet

hmmmm
…no feedback about the use of CNET?

Testing & Comparing the Pros & Cons of Tech is “their thing”

CNet is OK, but I was after the experience of people actually using these things.

For instance, CNet doesn’t tell you that Lenovo Ideapads have crummy keyboards that last 18 months if you are lucky.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 10:11:45
From: AwesomeO
ID: 1401871
Subject: re: Best laptop

And check the small print, when I was replacing my IPad Officeworks advertised a special, an IPad for only five hundred bucks not mentioning it was WIFI, no SIM card included.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 20:31:17
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1402129
Subject: re: Best laptop

OK, I’ve done it.

I head of to JB Hifi with a short list of Asus or Dell, and the winner was:

HP OMEN 15-DC0149TX 15.6”

All looks good so far.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 20:35:37
From: poikilotherm
ID: 1402130
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


OK, I’ve done it.

I head of to JB Hifi with a short list of Asus or Dell, and the winner was:

HP OMEN 15-DC0149TX 15.6”

All looks good so far.

haha.

I’ve liked the HPs we’ve owned over the years.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 20:42:04
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1402135
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


OK, I’ve done it.

I head of to JB Hifi with a short list of Asus or Dell, and the winner was:

HP OMEN 15-DC0149TX 15.6”

All looks good so far.

DOES IT HAVE A NUM PAD?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 20:50:36
From: party_pants
ID: 1402140
Subject: re: Best laptop

The Rev Dodgson said:


OK, I’ve done it.

I head of to JB Hifi with a short list of Asus or Dell, and the winner was:

HP OMEN 15-DC0149TX 15.6”

All looks good so far.

was that the one on special?

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 21:07:18
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1402150
Subject: re: Best laptop

Peak Warming Man said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

OK, I’ve done it.

I head of to JB Hifi with a short list of Asus or Dell, and the winner was:

HP OMEN 15-DC0149TX 15.6”

All looks good so far.

DOES IT HAVE A NUM PAD?

But of course

Reply Quote

Date: 20/06/2019 21:09:08
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1402152
Subject: re: Best laptop

party_pants said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

OK, I’ve done it.

I head of to JB Hifi with a short list of Asus or Dell, and the winner was:

HP OMEN 15-DC0149TX 15.6”

All looks good so far.

was that the one on special?

“Red Hot Deal” allegedly ($1799).

Reply Quote