I’ve been thinking about this since I saw a homeless person sleeping in the daytime in the middle of Melbourne city.
How would you supply housing for homeless people? What is the ideal layout for a homeless shelter?
mollwollfumble said:
I’ve been thinking about this since I saw a homeless person sleeping in the daytime in the middle of Melbourne city.How would you supply housing for homeless people? What is the ideal layout for a homeless shelter?
I have thought about this often and there is something very important to consider i.e. just putting a homeless person into shelter isn’t enough especially for a person who has lived literally on the streets for 10 plus years.
They need assistance with transition and depending on their needs they may need multiple access to support services , like living skills, financial counselling and mental health and counselling support but most of all you need the individual to be on board with the housing program and be open to agreeing to reasonable collaboration agreements.
For example , small groups of mini-houses can provide cluster housing for upto 20 people and they may have a communal garden , chooks and general yard management and independent housing as a stepping stone to the formal rental market or permanent low coast private rental estates because it is permanent accommodation at budget rates BUT there has to congruence on acceptable usage of the premises and support to help the tenants to work on that agreement otherwise you get those appalling premises you see on ACA or working crack houses.
And a stepping stone of going up the housing program when clients get to certain sustainable levels , where by they may purchase low cost housing whilst managing to pay the rent over a 10, 15 or 20 year period , there would be a criteria or failure to comply means to continue to rent (different program) without ownership outcomes because external people want people to not be homeless but the provision of the access to be fair and reasonable to those people who are transitioning to responsible participation in the programs as well with reasonable expectations.
The quickest way to help people transition and maintain rental obligations that experience severe bouts of mental health where living skills and basic house care is affected leading to cycles of evictions then govt funding house cleaning services should be provided on fortnightly basis to
a/ check on the wellbeing of the person
b/maintain the standards required for tenants
c/report events that will link the client with extra supports when needed – increase outreach mental help support teams and frequency of visits etc etc
this model can be adapted to the elderly purely for supporting their independence and medical health and referring the client for help when necessary as well.
This may seem like big brother but the main issue right now is that people are put into housing with support needs and people hope they work out how to manage things and they may be discovered when the issues are catastrophic and early intervention could change all of that
safe emergency housing is needed for young people , families and the elderly as putting a young child or family in a overnight refuge with people in psychosis or drug fuelled rages doesn’t work either. This is why some people choose the streets over the refuges as well.
Let’s not forget that, in decades past, some of the people on the streets would have had ‘housing’ provided.
Before closing down ‘institutions’ and putting their residents out ‘into the community’ became all the rage with governments (along with the expenditure savings and the opportunities to sell off the associated real estate), some of the people on the street whose troubles make them unable to provide for themselves would have been living in those ‘institutions’ (admittedly with all the faults of that system), with at least some access to the types of help they need.
Homelessness is at least partly a creation of our politicians and policy makers. Until they can be convinced by voter pressure that spending money on the homeless is of benefit to their political careers, we’re farting at thunder.
’ Big energy users could sell power back to grid in peak periods under proposed rule change
By senior business correspondent Peter Ryan
The rule change, a substitute for extra power generation, would be restricted to large industrial and commercial energy users, with households and small customers excluded because of consumer protection concerns
Under the rule change, high energy consumers could decide to reduce their consumption and sell the “demand reduction” back into the grid via a third party, such as an aggregator, at the market price at the time.’
I might be missing something, but when i read this article, it gave me the impression that we’re going to be paying big energy consumers lots of money for not using so much electricity.
So they get lower power bills, and we give them more money to reward them for having lower power bills. Also, this puts them in the enviable position of being able to hold the power grid to ransom, with their capacity to place increased load on it whenever they wish.
Or am i utterly wrong?
Sorry. Wrong thread. again.
monkey skipper said:
safe emergency housing is needed for young people , families and the elderly as putting a young child or family in a overnight refuge with people in psychosis or drug fuelled rages doesn’t work either. This is why some people choose the streets over the refuges as well.
That’s what i’m looking at first. A safe overnight refuge. The design is getting really specific, incorporating 7 different ways so far to protect vulnerable homeless people from people in psychosis, in drug fuelled rages, and sexual predators. Starting with the ability for a homeless single person to build a largely soundproof fort around themself.
Pj O Rourke with a bit of TIC in one of his economic essays remarked that that you can’t cure homelessness by giving homeless people houses.
captain_spalding said:
Let’s not forget that, in decades past, some of the people on the streets would have had ‘housing’ provided.Before closing down ‘institutions’ and putting their residents out ‘into the community’ became all the rage with governments (along with the expenditure savings and the opportunities to sell off the associated real estate), some of the people on the street whose troubles make them unable to provide for themselves would have been living in those ‘institutions’ (admittedly with all the faults of that system), with at least some access to the types of help they need.
Homelessness is at least partly a creation of our politicians and policy makers. Until they can be convinced by voter pressure that spending money on the homeless is of benefit to their political careers, we’re farting at thunder.
This.
We live in a society that places money above human rights. There are thousands of vacant homes but people want rent for them. Whoda thunk it?
In a perfect world, we could put homeless people into these vacant homes (units have a huge vacancy rate), and since they now have an address, they can get work, wages, pay rent.
Having said that, when I worked at Krispy there was a guy who came in all the time who lived in a van. He was perfectly happy being homeless.
AwesomeO said:
Pj O Rourke with a bit of TIC in one of his economic essays remarked that that you can’t cure homelessness by giving homeless people houses.
Just like you can’t cure poverty by giving money to poor people.
Divine Angel said:
captain_spalding said:
Let’s not forget that, in decades past, some of the people on the streets would have had ‘housing’ provided.Before closing down ‘institutions’ and putting their residents out ‘into the community’ became all the rage with governments (along with the expenditure savings and the opportunities to sell off the associated real estate), some of the people on the street whose troubles make them unable to provide for themselves would have been living in those ‘institutions’ (admittedly with all the faults of that system), with at least some access to the types of help they need.
Homelessness is at least partly a creation of our politicians and policy makers. Until they can be convinced by voter pressure that spending money on the homeless is of benefit to their political careers, we’re farting at thunder.
This.
We live in a society that places money above human rights. There are thousands of vacant homes but people want rent for them. Whoda thunk it?
In a perfect world, we could put homeless people into these vacant homes (units have a huge vacancy rate), and since they now have an address, they can get work, wages, pay rent.
Having said that, when I worked at Krispy there was a guy who came in all the time who lived in a van. He was perfectly happy being homeless.
Our town has a bloke who lives under bridges. He prefers the life style.
captain_spalding said:
Let’s not forget that, in decades past, some of the people on the streets would have had ‘housing’ provided.Before closing down ‘institutions’ and putting their residents out ‘into the community’ became all the rage with governments (along with the expenditure savings and the opportunities to sell off the associated real estate), some of the people on the street whose troubles make them unable to provide for themselves would have been living in those ‘institutions’ (admittedly with all the faults of that system), with at least some access to the types of help they need.
Homelessness is at least partly a creation of our politicians and policy makers. Until they can be convinced by voter pressure that spending money on the homeless is of benefit to their political careers, we’re farting at thunder.
I think we used to have rent to buy schemes like ms mentions in this thread, under the Victorian Housing Commission.
Divine Angel said:
AwesomeO said:
Pj O Rourke with a bit of TIC in one of his economic essays remarked that that you can’t cure homelessness by giving homeless people houses.
Just like you can’t cure poverty by giving money to poor people.
But Reaganomics taught us that you can cure poverty by giving money to rich people.
Tamb said:
Our town has a bloke who lives under bridges. He prefers the life style.
In the late-ish 70s, there was a bloke of thirty-something who lived in local parkland. Never bothered anyone, as sobers most of us, kept himself in reasonable condition. A Vietnam veteran who told me that, some time after he got back, he decided he just didn’t like living ‘inside’.
I sometimes wonder what happened to him.
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:Our town has a bloke who lives under bridges. He prefers the life style.
In the late-ish 70s, there was a bloke of thirty-something who lived in local parkland. Never bothered anyone, as sobers most of us, kept himself in reasonable condition. A Vietnam veteran who told me that, some time after he got back, he decided he just didn’t like living ‘inside’.
I sometimes wonder what happened to him.
When one bridge gets a bit grotty he moves to another & eventually the Council cleans up “his” bridge.
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:Our town has a bloke who lives under bridges. He prefers the life style.
In the late-ish 70s, there was a bloke of thirty-something who lived in local parkland. Never bothered anyone, as sobers most of us, kept himself in reasonable condition. A Vietnam veteran who told me that, some time after he got back, he decided he just didn’t like living ‘inside’.
I sometimes wonder what happened to him.
When one bridge gets a bit grotty he moves to another & eventually the Council cleans up “his” bridge.
There was a late show on SBS about drug users in America hosted by an ex drug user. They were in a homeless and druggie encampment with about 20 people near a river. All I kept doing is calculating the amount of shit generated daily and wonder where it all was.
When I lived in the Blue Mts there was a guy who lived in the bush. He was often seen on the Main Street going through rubbish bins for food. He loved living in bushland. There were caves to sleep in, he had a thick anorak, boots for winter, barefoot in summer.
buffy said:
captain_spalding said:
Let’s not forget that, in decades past, some of the people on the streets would have had ‘housing’ provided.Before closing down ‘institutions’ and putting their residents out ‘into the community’ became all the rage with governments (along with the expenditure savings and the opportunities to sell off the associated real estate), some of the people on the street whose troubles make them unable to provide for themselves would have been living in those ‘institutions’ (admittedly with all the faults of that system), with at least some access to the types of help they need.
Homelessness is at least partly a creation of our politicians and policy makers. Until they can be convinced by voter pressure that spending money on the homeless is of benefit to their political careers, we’re farting at thunder.
I think we used to have rent to buy schemes like ms mentions in this thread, under the Victorian Housing Commission.
What I’m coming up with for a layout for a shelter for homeless people is getting horribly specific. Nothing worth stealing, nothing to burn, nothing to use as a weapon, safe against a violent fist is just a starters. The accommodation has to be so bad that only the homeless would stay there, not wealthy freeloaders, but that the homeless would consider heaven compared to a bus shelter or doorway. It has to be appropriate both for claustrophobes and agoraphobes. Missy has been homeless so i’ve been getting information from her.
Before getting too specific (eg. dorm room width of 4.7 metres), here are some general thoughts.
Homeless people need somewhere to sleep, somewhere to buy food, somewhere to dry clothes, somewhere warm.
Dryness. Dryness is absolutely essential, whether or not you have a spare set of clothes, sleeping in wet socks and other wet clothes can be awful. I’ve heard about how much more important dryness is than cleanliness from several books, books about eskimos, about jungle treks, about astronauts. Dryers in laundromats cost $12, which homeless people can’t afford. Drying socks on hand dryers in toilets is a pain.
Recommendation 1. The homeless shelter should have a free clothes dryer.
Warmth. Warmth is a problem. There are three ways to get warm, an open fire, an electric heater, and sunshine. All three have problems. A cold homeless person will strip insulation from anywhere they can. They can set things alight in an effort to keep warm. Concrete is warmer than timber, carpet is warmer than concrete.
Recommendation 2. Indestructible heating. And fireproof materials that are not cold. Fireproof carpetted flooring.
Beds. From discussion with Missy, I’ve ruled out normal beds (a fire hazard), rubber mat, hammock. The simplest option is no bed, sleep directly on the warm carpet.
Recommendation 3. Either no bed, or free access to motel room style sleeping accommodation between 10 am and 3 pm. Or both.
Water. Can be very hard to find in the city.
Recommendation 4. Free tepid water for filling up water bottles at all times of the day and night. Free water for hand-washing clothes.
Boiling water. On tap for instant noodles. It’s dangerous, but it is safer than boiling water in jugs which can be thrown at people during fights. daytime access only.
Recommendation 5. Boiling water. Free on tap but locked away at night.No kettles apart from those brought in by the people themselves.
Chargers. There is a type of lockable phone charger. Some homeless people will hang around shopping centres for 3 hours while their phone charges.
Recommendation 6. Lockable phone chargers where a resident can safely leave their phone on charge while going out.
Toilets. There is a problem here, according to Missy. Cleanliness. If the location is near a train station or other public toilet then better to let the residents use that. Otherwise, something intermediate between a portaloo and Exeloo near the entrance. (Perhaps something like an aeroplane loo).
Recommendation 7. Supply toilets if public toilets not within 350 metres, or if there are a lot of people staying. An Exeloo style toilet near the entrance is best. Proper grooming equipment in toilet.
Food. Missy says most homeless people buy food at fast food places, also sometimes supermarkets. Vending machines are too expensive. And homeless people don’t use or need refrigerators, food left in refrigerators too often goes off. Scrounging food from trash bins is a common activity, particularly unopened food past use-by date but sometimes half-eaten food.
Recommendation 8. Free vending machine with muesli bars. No chocolate. See what can be done to minimise the cost of obtaining these muesli bars.
Privacy. Privacy is important. Homeless people don’t have it, except in the toilet. Most homeless people will avoid other homeless people that they don’t know. This rules out bunk-style accommodation like that in backpacker and YMCA/YWCA style accommodation. Doors are a problem, they are needed for privacy but will deter some homeless.
Recommendation 9. No lockable doors, except on designated changing rooms. Sleeping quarters are separated by privacy screens.
Table. Yes. Very useful.
Recommendation 10. Table in common area, kitchen and laundry. Seats in kitchen, laundry and cry room.
Lock-up. Homeless people can’t be seen carrying their bedding and spare clothes around all day.
Recommendation 11. Free keyless time-limited lock-up for residents is needed. For those who exceed the allocated time, a lock-up lost and found is essential. Underwear is disposed of, not held in lost and found.
Clothing. Many homeless people don’t have a change of clothing, because it’s too difficult to carry around during the day.
Recommendation 12. Free or low cost access to op-shop quality clothing.
Bedclothes. Many homeless people don’t have any, because it’s too difficult to carry around during the day.
Recommendation 13. Reduced cost access to sleeping bags. eg. $20.
Not looking like homeless. Very important when shopping, for example. Op-shop quality clothing will help. So will showers and toiletries.
Recommendation 14. A single shower, with shower stool. Unbreakable mirrors. BYO toiletries, remember that toiletries can go in the lock-up. Power point for blow dryer and electric shaver?
Curfew. None, but access to anything dangerous limited to daytime.
Recommendation 15. Free to come and go at any time of the night, but access to anything dangerous limited to daytime.
Violence. Surprisingly, violence is not a huge problem for homeless in Australia, so far. So pocket knives and other things carried for protection such as pepper spray are allowed. However, it is not unusual during a fight for someone to put their fist through a wall.
Recommendation 16. No metal detector needed. Security camera at the entrance and in each dormitory, respecting privacy. Scream detector. Partitions that are solid without being dangerous. Smash-resistant glass. Add a crying room with soft furnishings and something equivalent to a punching bag, and with religious symbols for praying.
Lighting. As much sunlight as possible during the day. Subdued lighting at night.
Recommendation 17. As much sunlight as possible during the day. Subdued lighting at night, not too bright to disturb sleeping. No harsh transitions from light and dark
Stairs. Enclosed stairs attract filth. Open stairs tempt jumping.
Recommendation 18. If stairs, have them straight, two flights, open to view both top and bottom, enclosed on the sides, with handrail.
Cutlery and cooking. Spoons are more useful than knives and forks, as well as being able to substitute for both. Avoid plastic cutlery. No crockery. A microwave is useful for microwave meals and hot drinks.
Recommendation 19. Free op-shop quality spoons in the kitchen. A microwave in the kitchen. Safe scissors chained to the desk in the kitchen for opening plastic packaging.
Location. Ideally within walking distance of everywhere. Near train stations and food shops. City and suburbs. Possibly near or in caravan parks and backpacker accommodation.
Recommendation 20. Take Melbourne for example, the end stations of train lines plus some in the city gives about 20 locations.
Electricity. Generally avoid high voltage outlets except for hair dryer, microwave and clothes dryers. Have lockable charging stations instead.
Fresh air and freedom from smell and noise. This doesn’t seem to be all that important.
Recommendation 21. No doors on rooms other than the cry room, and that one isn’t lockable. Doors on sleeping cubicles.
Garbage. Ideally a disposal chute, to stop residents searching through the garbage and keep the smell away.
Recommendation 22. Garbage disposal chutes in kitchen, laundry, cry room and by front door, with openings too small for children to get into.
mollwollfumble said:
buffy said:
captain_spalding said:
Let’s not forget that, in decades past, some of the people on the streets would have had ‘housing’ provided.Before closing down ‘institutions’ and putting their residents out ‘into the community’ became all the rage with governments (along with the expenditure savings and the opportunities to sell off the associated real estate), some of the people on the street whose troubles make them unable to provide for themselves would have been living in those ‘institutions’ (admittedly with all the faults of that system), with at least some access to the types of help they need.
Homelessness is at least partly a creation of our politicians and policy makers. Until they can be convinced by voter pressure that spending money on the homeless is of benefit to their political careers, we’re farting at thunder.
I think we used to have rent to buy schemes like ms mentions in this thread, under the Victorian Housing Commission.
What I’m coming up with for a layout for a shelter for homeless people is getting horribly specific. Nothing worth stealing, nothing to burn, nothing to use as a weapon, safe against a violent fist is just a starters. The accommodation has to be so bad that only the homeless would stay there, not wealthy freeloaders, but that the homeless would consider heaven compared to a bus shelter or doorway. It has to be appropriate both for claustrophobes and agoraphobes. Missy has been homeless so i’ve been getting information from her.
Before getting too specific (eg. dorm room width of 4.7 metres), here are some general thoughts.
Homeless people need somewhere to sleep, somewhere to buy food, somewhere to dry clothes, somewhere warm.
Dryness. Dryness is absolutely essential, whether or not you have a spare set of clothes, sleeping in wet socks and other wet clothes can be awful. I’ve heard about how much more important dryness is than cleanliness from several books, books about eskimos, about jungle treks, about astronauts. Dryers in laundromats cost $12, which homeless people can’t afford. Drying socks on hand dryers in toilets is a pain.
Recommendation 1. The homeless shelter should have a free clothes dryer.
Warmth. Warmth is a problem. There are three ways to get warm, an open fire, an electric heater, and sunshine. All three have problems. A cold homeless person will strip insulation from anywhere they can. They can set things alight in an effort to keep warm. Concrete is warmer than timber, carpet is warmer than concrete.
Recommendation 2. Indestructible heating. And fireproof materials that are not cold. Fireproof carpetted flooring.
Beds. From discussion with Missy, I’ve ruled out normal beds (a fire hazard), rubber mat, hammock. The simplest option is no bed, sleep directly on the warm carpet.
Recommendation 3. Either no bed, or free access to motel room style sleeping accommodation between 10 am and 3 pm. Or both.
Water. Can be very hard to find in the city.
Recommendation 4. Free tepid water for filling up water bottles at all times of the day and night. Free water for hand-washing clothes.
Boiling water. On tap for instant noodles. It’s dangerous, but it is safer than boiling water in jugs which can be thrown at people during fights. daytime access only.
Recommendation 5. Boiling water. Free on tap but locked away at night.No kettles apart from those brought in by the people themselves.
Chargers. There is a type of lockable phone charger. Some homeless people will hang around shopping centres for 3 hours while their phone charges.
Recommendation 6. Lockable phone chargers where a resident can safely leave their phone on charge while going out.
Toilets. There is a problem here, according to Missy. Cleanliness. If the location is near a train station or other public toilet then better to let the residents use that. Otherwise, something intermediate between a portaloo and Exeloo near the entrance. (Perhaps something like an aeroplane loo).
Recommendation 7. Supply toilets if public toilets not within 350 metres, or if there are a lot of people staying. An Exeloo style toilet near the entrance is best. Proper grooming equipment in toilet.
Food. Missy says most homeless people buy food at fast food places, also sometimes supermarkets. Vending machines are too expensive. And homeless people don’t use or need refrigerators, food left in refrigerators too often goes off. Scrounging food from trash bins is a common activity, particularly unopened food past use-by date but sometimes half-eaten food.
Recommendation 8. Free vending machine with muesli bars. No chocolate. See what can be done to minimise the cost of obtaining these muesli bars.
Privacy. Privacy is important. Homeless people don’t have it, except in the toilet. Most homeless people will avoid other homeless people that they don’t know. This rules out bunk-style accommodation like that in backpacker and YMCA/YWCA style accommodation. Doors are a problem, they are needed for privacy but will deter some homeless.
Recommendation 9. No lockable doors, except on designated changing rooms. Sleeping quarters are separated by privacy screens.
Table. Yes. Very useful.
Recommendation 10. Table in common area, kitchen and laundry. Seats in kitchen, laundry and cry room.
Lock-up. Homeless people can’t be seen carrying their bedding and spare clothes around all day.
Recommendation 11. Free keyless time-limited lock-up for residents is needed. For those who exceed the allocated time, a lock-up lost and found is essential. Underwear is disposed of, not held in lost and found.
Clothing. Many homeless people don’t have a change of clothing, because it’s too difficult to carry around during the day.
Recommendation 12. Free or low cost access to op-shop quality clothing.
Bedclothes. Many homeless people don’t have any, because it’s too difficult to carry around during the day.
Recommendation 13. Reduced cost access to sleeping bags. eg. $20.
Not looking like homeless. Very important when shopping, for example. Op-shop quality clothing will help. So will showers and toiletries.
Recommendation 14. A single shower, with shower stool. Unbreakable mirrors. BYO toiletries, remember that toiletries can go in the lock-up. Power point for blow dryer and electric shaver?
Curfew. None, but access to anything dangerous limited to daytime.
Recommendation 15. Free to come and go at any time of the night, but access to anything dangerous limited to daytime.
Violence. Surprisingly, violence is not a huge problem for homeless in Australia, so far. So pocket knives and other things carried for protection such as pepper spray are allowed. However, it is not unusual during a fight for someone to put their fist through a wall.
Recommendation 16. No metal detector needed. Security camera at the entrance and in each dormitory, respecting privacy. Scream detector. Partitions that are solid without being dangerous. Smash-resistant glass. Add a crying room with soft furnishings and something equivalent to a punching bag, and with religious symbols for praying.
Lighting. As much sunlight as possible during the day. Subdued lighting at night.
Recommendation 17. As much sunlight as possible during the day. Subdued lighting at night, not too bright to disturb sleeping. No harsh transitions from light and dark
Stairs. Enclosed stairs attract filth. Open stairs tempt jumping.
Recommendation 18. If stairs, have them straight, two flights, open to view both top and bottom, enclosed on the sides, with handrail.
Cutlery and cooking. Spoons are more useful than knives and forks, as well as being able to substitute for both. Avoid plastic cutlery. No crockery. A microwave is useful for microwave meals and hot drinks.
Recommendation 19. Free op-shop quality spoons in the kitchen. A microwave in the kitchen. Safe scissors chained to the desk in the kitchen for opening plastic packaging.
Location. Ideally within walking distance of everywhere. Near train stations and food shops. City and suburbs. Possibly near or in caravan parks and backpacker accommodation.
Recommendation 20. Take Melbourne for example, the end stations of train lines plus some in the city gives about 20 locations.
Electricity. Generally avoid high voltage outlets except for hair dryer, microwave and clothes dryers. Have lockable charging stations instead.
Fresh air and freedom from smell and noise. This doesn’t seem to be all that important.
Recommendation 21. No doors on rooms other than the cry room, and that one isn’t lockable. Doors on sleeping cubicles.
Garbage. Ideally a disposal chute, to stop residents searching through the garbage and keep the smell away.
Recommendation 22. Garbage disposal chutes in kitchen, laundry, cry room and by front door, with openings too small for children to get into.
Modified shipping containers.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-20/transportable-shelters-in-new-approach-for-homelesssness/11222358
Bogsnorkler said:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-20/transportable-shelters-in-new-approach-for-homelesssness/11222358
Great link, thanks. Is that floor vinyl or carpet?
“They feel fairly claustrophobic with a fully enclosed room, or house,”
“share accommodation was not always an option for the homeless for a range or reasons, including mental health issues.”
“The council has also installed homeless lockers”
“a local soup van would also visit.”
—-
Ideal shelter. mollwollfumble’s proposed layout – first draft
For each floor.
Capacity about 50 homeless people in an area about the same size as a suburban house. No front door.
7 rooms. Unisex toilet, singles dorm, couples + families dorm, group dorm, laundry, kitchen, cry room.
The unisex toilet is by the front entrance. The three dorms (and stairway if any) lead off the entrance hallway. Each dorm has a doorway at each end. The far doorway of all three leads to a corridor containing the laundry, kitchen and cry room.
Singles dorm. Security and noise-proofing for homeless single people.
4.7 metres wide. A central aisle 600 mm wide. Both sides lined with carpeted sleeping booths the size of a long single bed 92 cm wide, 203 cm long. Partitions about 4 cm thick and 203 cm high, open at the top. The door opens by swinging in and has no handle. To keep the door closed, put something against it. To lock the door, fold down 92 cm of the side of the booth to make a sound-resistant cubicle 111 cm high for sleeping in. Each sleeping booth contains a USB outlet for charging.
Couples and Families dorm. Fresh air and Privacy.
4.7 metres wide. A central aisle 600 mm wide. Both sides lined with carpeted sleeping booths the size of a queen bed 153 cm wide, 203 cm long. Partitions about 4 cm thick and 203 cm high, open at the top. The door opens by swinging in. Open above so the lighting is on all the time. Not noiseproof. People with pets need to use the Couples and Families dorm.
Flop dorm.
Intended for dog-tired people who don’t care about privacy, or have claustrophobia. A large open carpeted warm dry room where people can sleep wherever they like.
Toilet.
Unisex and time limited. Automatic soap dispenser, grooming equipment, toothpaste, well lit with mirrors. Non-flammable and violence resistant.
Laundry.
Main item is plenty of free clothes dryers. Ideally ones that dry much faster than conventional clothes dryers. Also has lock-ups for up to a fortnight big enough for sleeping bag and clothes, a small change room with an attached shower. Has a central sorting table.
Kitchen.
Has boiling water on tap (during the day) and a microwave and metal spoons. Has a sink with warm water for wash-up. Table and chairs. Has a garbage chute.
Cry room.
Has three purposes, prayer, crying, and as a safe outlet for violence. Perhaps a painting of a cross, a direction to Mecca, a well-padded chair, bright colours and a punch strength meter are appropriate.
This is the plan I came up with. Not quite to scale, but sort of OK.
https://fabricofdigitallife.com/index.php/Detail/objects/210
SCIENCE said:
https://fabricofdigitallife.com/index.php/Detail/objects/210
Nice one. That’s what i call capsule accommodation. You’d have to pay for accommodation like that, but only a nominal amount, perhaps $20 per night. It could be popular with city executives.
—-
I’ve had a couple more thoughts.
How secure is the “secure dorm”? Well, completely secure against an unarmed attacker. Completely secure against a knife-weilding attacker. Not secure against a sawn-off shot gun. Think “paper armour”. In addition, security camera and scream detector for added security.
The “family dorm” also has sleeping booths separated by something equivalent to paper armour, but only on four sides. For the “secure dorm” the resident is protected on five sides.
In the “flop dorm” the protection is not physical, security relies on constant observation and escape routes.
—-
I think I have a new design for a clothes dryer that reduces drying time from an hour to a minute. It’s based on inkjet printer technology. Rather than shooting ink onto paper, it shoots warm dry air through clothes. You can think of it as a cross between a toaster and an air conditioner. An optical sensor regulates the pressure of the dry air so it doesn’t waste power or damage the fabric.
mollwollfumble said:
SCIENCE said:
https://fabricofdigitallife.com/index.php/Detail/objects/210
Nice one. That’s what i call capsule accommodation. You’d have to pay for accommodation like that, but only a nominal amount, perhaps $20 per night. It could be popular with city executives.
—-
I’ve had a couple more thoughts.
How secure is the “secure dorm”? Well, completely secure against an unarmed attacker. Completely secure against a knife-weilding attacker. Not secure against a sawn-off shot gun. Think “paper armour”. In addition, security camera and scream detector for added security.
The “family dorm” also has sleeping booths separated by something equivalent to paper armour, but only on four sides. For the “secure dorm” the resident is protected on five sides.
In the “flop dorm” the protection is not physical, security relies on constant observation and escape routes.
—-
I think I have a new design for a clothes dryer that reduces drying time from an hour to a minute. It’s based on inkjet printer technology. Rather than shooting ink onto paper, it shoots warm dry air through clothes. You can think of it as a cross between a toaster and an air conditioner. An optical sensor regulates the pressure of the dry air so it doesn’t waste power or damage the fabric.
Only two more thoughts. OK, three.
1. What colour scheme would you use to paint the inside of a homeless shelter?
Blue for dorms and red for public areas?
2. Is there a foolproof way to stop an arsonist?
I was wondering, perhaps soak everything in a chemical that doesn’t smell at all unless burning, and stinks to high heaven when there’s a flame nearby. If you make everything very difficult to burn (say a 4.5 kW/m2 fire rating) then that would just encourage them to try harder. But with instant karma …
3. What signs would you put up?
“You have good humour and high spirits”.
“Don’t drop rubbish, place checked fortnightly with a UV lamp”.
?
I was thinking “please try not to bleed on the carpet” but Missy says that would be an extremely bad display.
4. Nylon or wool carpet? Which is nicer to sleep on and easier to clean?
Bugger carpet. Awfully unsanitary.
Lino tiles over concrete.
No need to sleep on the floor. Issue canvas stretcher beds.
captain_spalding said:
Bugger carpet. Awfully unsanitary.Lino tiles over concrete.
No need to sleep on the floor. Issue canvas stretcher beds.
Thanks. I was wondering about lino. Can be warm without being flammable. Not as soundproof as carpet, so perhaps carpet on the walls?
The canvas stretcher beds look good, too, better than a simple platform for most people, not too easy to smash up, and not worth stealing. A definite yes for the flop dorm.
Any advice on towels? There’s a shower there and can’t expect people to bring their own, or use towels that are good enough be stolen.
captain_spalding said:
Bugger carpet. Awfully unsanitary.Lino tiles over concrete.
No need to sleep on the floor. Issue canvas stretcher beds.
I’ve got two of those from the first war.
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Bugger carpet. Awfully unsanitary.Lino tiles over concrete.
No need to sleep on the floor. Issue canvas stretcher beds.
I’ve got two of those from the first war.
AFAIK, they (or a variant thereof) are still a stock item with the ADF.
‘Paramedic left to work alone without an ambulance vents frustration on social media (photos)
By Carla Howarth
A social media post by a Hobart paramedic blames budget savings for the state’s “old and failing” ambulances and staff “worked beyond breaking point”, and says being the only paramedic for 50,000 people is “not such a novelty”.’ – ABC News
The good things (from a government viewpoint) are that:
1. Voters are expendable. They’re self-replacing. The silly buggers can’t seem to help reproducing, so there’s always more to replace them.
2. Voters have terribly short memories. This will all be forgotten by the time the next election rolls around.
3. Voters dislike increased cost to themselves. You only have to bleat ‘higher taxes’ and they shy away from any remedy.
4. Signals for help from within the relevant services can always be bullied into silence.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Bugger carpet. Awfully unsanitary.Lino tiles over concrete.
No need to sleep on the floor. Issue canvas stretcher beds.
I’ve got two of those from the first war.
AFAIK, they (or a variant thereof) are still a stock item with the ADF.
Still for officers only though?
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:I’ve got two of those from the first war.
AFAIK, they (or a variant thereof) are still a stock item with the ADF.
Still for officers only though?
Aka Chairs, millionaire.
Got some statistics from https://www.ahuri.edu.au/policy/ahuri-briefs/what-are-the-different-types-of-homelessness?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiIyOurHF4wIVk4RwCh1hQAYNEAAYAyAAEgKRovD_BwE
Of the 116,427 people counted as being homeless on Census night 2016, the greatest proportion (51,088 or 43.9% of all homeless people) were those living in ‘severely’ crowded dwellings.
Only 7% Persons living in improvised dwellings or sleeping out.
18.2% Persons in supported accomm.
15.2% Persons staying temporarily with other households.
15.0% Persons living in boarding houses.
OK, so what i had been thinking was to create another severely crowded house, for people currently sleeping out. But if that’s already being done, then … Is what is being done already enough? I don’t think so because the number sleeping rough has increased enormously.
Googling homeless people in Australia produces rubbish:
Homeless people already have most things they need already, its unnecessary to provide very much.
The key part is providing simple , safe, shelter.
Wholesale homeless storage would be something like a warehouse that’s been converted into lots of small lock ups so they can lock themselves away from other inmates
You’d just provide a wall of toilets that could be hosed out in the morning and somewhere people could dump contaminated items such as piss bottles and newspaper sandwiches created over night.
wookiemeister said:
Homeless people already have most things they need already, its unnecessary to provide very much.The key part is providing simple , safe, shelter.
Wholesale homeless storage would be something like a warehouse that’s been converted into lots of small lock ups so they can lock themselves away from other inmates
You’d just provide a wall of toilets that could be hosed out in the morning and somewhere people could dump contaminated items such as piss bottles and newspaper sandwiches created over night.
Ta. That’s a good observation.
As i get to know more, i get more and more furious at Missy’s ex partner, who kept her homeless for so long, sleeping in the car to deliberately avoid everybody who could help.
mollwollfumble said:
wookiemeister said:
Homeless people already have most things they need already, its unnecessary to provide very much.The key part is providing simple , safe, shelter.
Wholesale homeless storage would be something like a warehouse that’s been converted into lots of small lock ups so they can lock themselves away from other inmates
You’d just provide a wall of toilets that could be hosed out in the morning and somewhere people could dump contaminated items such as piss bottles and newspaper sandwiches created over night.
Ta. That’s a good observation.
As i get to know more, i get more and more furious at Missy’s ex partner, who kept her homeless for so long, sleeping in the car to deliberately avoid everybody who could help.
I didn’t know these existed.
http://www.melbourne.homeless.org.au/boarding-houses.html
Crisis Help Network: Melbourne Homeless Services
Boarding Houses Melbourne
A bond of one or two weeks rent is normally paid upfront before moving in. If you aren’t cashed up most agencies will pay this for you. The rooms as a rule have a small fridge, bedding, a few bits of furniture and if you are lucky a TV. They have a community kitchen, laundry and shared toilet and shower facilities. Items such as food, clothing and other personal items have a habit of going walkabout as there is a lot of human traffic around.
Boarding House Accommodation
(You may need to leave a message and the owner will phone you back.)
All care is taken to maintain correct phone numbers but they change, some on a regular basis.
Barkly Street Rooming House, Footscray 9687 7493
Cowper Street, Rooming House, Footscray 9336 4624
Edwardette Rooming House, Essendon 9331 1220
Eildon Accommodation, 51 Grey Street, St Kilda 9525 3623
Fawkner Mansions Hostel, 250 Punt Road, Prahran 9521 2388
Frederick Street Rooming House, Dandenong 9794 7457
George Street Rooming House, Dandenong 9793 9569
Grey Street Rooming House, St Kilda 9525 4054
Hillside Court, 155 Hoddle Street, Richmond 9428 6698
Parkville Boarding House, Parkville 9347 2451
Park Street Rooming House, St Kilda 9510 7563
Willow House
Street Address: 115 Barkers Road KEW
Telephone (03) 9853 6132 (0419 331 903)
Accommodation for single adults, couples.
$90 per person, dormitory
$130 per week, single person,
$140 per week, single person, with en suite.
$180 per week, couple, with no en suite
Combarton Street Rooming House
BOX HILL
Telephone: 0412 922 932
Accommodation for single, adults over 25 years
Share cooking, household tasks.
The Hub Fitzroy
Phone: (03) 9419 4839
Was looking at slum housing. What a house in a slum actually has and hasn’t.
Slum houses have electricity for hot water, fluorescent lighting, refrigerator and (sometimes) TV as well as power for industries such as sewing machine, potters wheel, etc. Industries at home include painting and leatherworking.
The houses have beds (but not always), chairs (but not always), urn, fridge, shelves, lock-up cupboards, washing hanging everywhere, wall decorations, framed pictures. Single room dwelling, no separate kitchen. Shared shower and toilet facilities elsewhere. Vinyl flooring sometimes, not carpet.
This website is interesting. It’s about using GPS addresses as a replacement for street addresses in slums. In order to give slum businesses a reachable address.
https://www.changemakers.com/intrapreneurs/entries/slum-logistics
poikilotherm said:
There will be blood.
poikilotherm said:
Oh British conservatives. That would be Margaret Thatcher’s mob.
That figures.
OK, so from the mattress and foam materials thread.
I could use a multiple thickness carpet underlay from just $18/m^2.
Or if that low price ends, multiple thickness exercise mat instead of underlay for $30/m^2.
Being an underlay under carpet, it’s safe from direct attack from arsonists. Being an open foam (as opposed to airbed), it’s safe from direct attack by stabbers. It’s about 5 times as thick as a normal underlay, making it comfortable enough to sleep on. And being at floor level, it doesn’t impede door opening and closing in the secure dorm and family dorm.
In the flop dorm, Missy wanted to see platforms. I couldn’t figure out how that could work until just recently. The traditional Indian Charpoy bed would be a starting point, but too expensive to import from India or source locally. No mattress other than optional sleeping bag or quilt. They can cost as little as 25 australian cents each in India, but in Australia cost upwards of $1000 each.
So why not just make a platform from four by two wall members, sanded smooth. Arbitrary number of legs. Two stringers on the legs supporting the platform. Multiple beds (eg. ten) on each platform separated by more four by twos, call these separating members “joists”. Use “stretch denim” or similar laid over all the joists along the entire length of platform and stapled in place by the type of staple used for stapling masonite backs on wardrobes.
Each bed is then like a hammock but firmly supported at the sides not the ends. So it sinks a bit under the person’s weight.
By using a strong fabric with slight stretch, it doesn’t have to be cut on the bias, minimising seams and wastage.
Stretch denim costs $6.80/m^2 at Spotlight.
Two by fours cost, well, not much, at the local timber store.
mollwollfumble said:
OK, so from the mattress and foam materials thread.I could use a multiple thickness carpet underlay from just $18/m^2.
Or if that low price ends, multiple thickness exercise mat instead of underlay for $30/m^2.
Being an underlay under carpet, it’s safe from direct attack from arsonists. Being an open foam (as opposed to airbed), it’s safe from direct attack by stabbers. It’s about 5 times as thick as a normal underlay, making it comfortable enough to sleep on. And being at floor level, it doesn’t impede door opening and closing in the secure dorm and family dorm.
In the flop dorm, Missy wanted to see platforms. I couldn’t figure out how that could work until just recently. The traditional Indian Charpoy bed would be a starting point, but too expensive to import from India or source locally. No mattress other than optional sleeping bag or quilt. They can cost as little as 25 australian cents each in India, but in Australia cost upwards of $1000 each.
So why not just make a platform from four by two wall members, sanded smooth. Arbitrary number of legs. Two stringers on the legs supporting the platform. Multiple beds (eg. ten) on each platform separated by more four by twos, call these separating members “joists”. Use “stretch denim” or similar laid over all the joists along the entire length of platform and stapled in place by the type of staple used for stapling masonite backs on wardrobes.
Each bed is then like a hammock but firmly supported at the sides not the ends. So it sinks a bit under the person’s weight.
By using a strong fabric with slight stretch, it doesn’t have to be cut on the bias, minimising seams and wastage.
Stretch denim costs $6.80/m^2 at Spotlight.
Two by fours cost, well, not much, at the local timber store.
Ugh. I forgot parking for homeless people.
There would be four types of parking required:
Car parking is a problem. It uses up twice as much space as sleeping, and in the city space is very valuable. It could be time to trot out another mollwollfumble invention, initially intended for aircraft carriers, a high tech parking system that can park cars in much less space, by parking them on end. Boot down engine high in the air.
In the finale of Orange is the New Black, there’s a scene where a homeless character is living in a tent along with several other homeless people. They were all shuffled off with an armful of possessions while everything else, including their tents, were swept up into the back of a garbage truck.
What’s the point? Why take away shelter and move homeless people to another area?
mollwollfumble said:
It could be time to trot out another mollwollfumble invention, initially intended for aircraft carriers, a high tech parking system that can park cars in much less space, by parking them on end. Boot down engine high in the air.
FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Spiny Norman said:
mollwollfumble said:It could be time to trot out another mollwollfumble invention, initially intended for aircraft carriers, a high tech parking system that can park cars in much less space, by parking them on end. Boot down engine high in the air.
FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Better not have a high tech car parking system like that. Better to just use a forklift to park cars. Lift each car on a forklift and slot into a space prepared that is the right height and length.
Divine Angel said:
In the finale of Orange is the New Black, there’s a scene where a homeless character is living in a tent along with several other homeless people. They were all shuffled off with an armful of possessions while everything else, including their tents, were swept up into the back of a garbage truck.What’s the point? Why take away shelter and move homeless people to another area?
Before I visited Jamaica, I would have agreed with you. There I found occasional people living in galvanised iron shacks on public land.
In my city, apparently it is common for homeless people to abandon bedding and shelter materials that need to be collected in large quantities regularly.
Look, it’s a tough call. Health and safety, access to facilities, hoarding disorder, land ownership, alcoholism and all sorts of other things, even aesthetics come into it. Let’s take healthy and safety – is the place littered with broken bottles, rusty iron nails, sharp metal edges – have the abandoned food containers attracted some deadly species of mould – how far away can the smell of urine and feces be smelled? Councils have building regulations for a reason. It has to be treated on a case by case basis.
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:
mollwollfumble said:It could be time to trot out another mollwollfumble invention, initially intended for aircraft carriers, a high tech parking system that can park cars in much less space, by parking them on end. Boot down engine high in the air.
FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Radiator overflow tank & power steering fluid as well.
Ah, thanks, but wouldn’t they overflow anyway when the car accelerates and brakes?
Just about every car on the road is capable of 1 gee acceleration or braking. So wouldn’t that mean that parking the car at 45 degrees from vertical, or even steeper, is safe?
mollwollfumble said:
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Radiator overflow tank & power steering fluid as well.Ah, thanks, but wouldn’t they overflow anyway when the car accelerates and brakes?
Just about every car on the road is capable of 1 gee acceleration or braking. So wouldn’t that mean that parking the car at 45 degrees from vertical, or even steeper, is safe?
mollwollfumble said:
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Radiator overflow tank & power steering fluid as well.Ah, thanks, but wouldn’t they overflow anyway when the car accelerates and brakes?
Just about every car on the road is capable of 1 gee acceleration or braking. So wouldn’t that mean that parking the car at 45 degrees from vertical, or even steeper, is safe?
Not many road cars can generate 1g acceleration and if they do it’s not for long. Most road cars can generate 1g deceleration though. A good road tyre can let a car get up to around 1g in most directions, a very good road-legal semi-slick can go to 1.3g’s or so. A 45° slope should be okay, though it wouldn’t take much to have the car slipping down the slope.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:
mollwollfumble said:It could be time to trot out another mollwollfumble invention, initially intended for aircraft carriers, a high tech parking system that can park cars in much less space, by parking them on end. Boot down engine high in the air.
FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Radiator overflow tank & power steering fluid as well.
As well as your groceries on the back seat…. from ya shopping.
Spiny Norman said:
mollwollfumble said:
Tamb said:Radiator overflow tank & power steering fluid as well.
Ah, thanks, but wouldn’t they overflow anyway when the car accelerates and brakes?
Just about every car on the road is capable of 1 gee acceleration or braking. So wouldn’t that mean that parking the car at 45 degrees from vertical, or even steeper, is safe?
Not many road cars can generate 1g acceleration and if they do it’s not for long. Most road cars can generate 1g deceleration though. A good road tyre can let a car get up to around 1g in most directions, a very good road-legal semi-slick can go to 1.3g’s or so. A 45° slope should be okay, though it wouldn’t take much to have the car slipping down the slope.
Apologies for the thread drift.
The thread drift was deliberate on my part. And the “park on end” was deliberately provocative.
My original design from a year ago was to park cars at 45 degrees from vertical, same forces as in severe braking. And you’re right, I’d forgotten why the original design was nose down, gees during acceleration are much less. For homeless people, there would be a bit of a mess of objects from the boot ending up hitting the front windscreen. For aircraft on an aircraft carrier it makes more sense, those aircraft are used to higher gee forces than that.
Let’s go with lift and forklift.
Woodie said:
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:FWIW a rather bad thing to do with a car. The oil in the engine will flow out of the breather and quite possibly the gearbox as well. The system also very likely leak badly. Quite possibly the brake fluid from the reservoir as well.
Radiator overflow tank & power steering fluid as well.As well as your groceries on the back seat…. from ya shopping.
And all the rubbish which lives under the seats.
I don’t get it. If space is so short that you are stacking the cars of homeless people then that land is far too valuable to go to homeless people. Where land is cheaper you can have ordinary parking areas. Bit like caravan parks.
In England councils have started housing people at sea side hotels. The demand for them has gone down because everyone goes to Spain for sea side holidays now (Brexit May change that), as a consequence those sea side towns are looking a bit craptacular which is not appreciated by the locals.
AwesomeO said:
I don’t get it. If space is so short that you are stacking the cars of homeless people then that land is far too valuable to go to homeless people. Where land is cheaper you can have ordinary parking areas. Bit like caravan parks.In England councils have started housing people at sea side hotels. The demand for them has gone down because everyone goes to Spain for sea side holidays now (Brexit May change that), as a consequence those sea side towns are looking a bit craptacular which is not appreciated by the locals.
Homeless people tend to need access to all the facilities that make land more expensive. It’s a problem. They have to live on expensive land but can’t because the land is expensive.
There are boarding houses for homeless people in Australian cities. But they’re not well advertised, Missy was homeless for nearly a year and even with web access never found out that they existed. I didn’t know either, until a month ago.
I know of some people near Gympie that, well, I don’t know if they were technically homeless but they lived in caravans on land they didn’t own in the middle of a forest.
I’m also keeping in mind the aboriginal people in the period 1925 to 1950. When the tribal system had 95% ceased to exist and a lot of those people lived in slum villages within walking distance of towns and missions. The smell from their garbage was not always appreciated by the town dwellers.
https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/news-and-media/582019-city-welcomes-partnership-tackle-homelessness-fremantle
https://www.csi.edu.au/research/project/50-lives-50-homes-first-year-evaluation-report/
JudgeMental said:
https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/news-and-media/582019-city-welcomes-partnership-tackle-homelessness-fremantlehttps://www.csi.edu.au/research/project/50-lives-50-homes-first-year-evaluation-report/
Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes. Why limit it to 50 lives?
> Perth’s most vulnerable rough sleepers. Within its first year, the project has housed 42 individuals and 8 families.
God, that’s negligible.
The infographic for the project in Perth is extremely disturbing. Worse than I’d suspected.
mollwollfumble said:
Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes. Why limit it to 50 lives?
As of 31 December 2017, 183 people had consented to join 50 Lives, with 107 people
housed in 78 homes, and a further 105 supported and awaiting suitable housing. The
original target of providing 50 homes was met in June 2017.
mollwollfumble said:
JudgeMental said:
https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/news-and-media/582019-city-welcomes-partnership-tackle-homelessness-fremantlehttps://www.csi.edu.au/research/project/50-lives-50-homes-first-year-evaluation-report/
Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes. Why limit it to 50 lives?
> Perth’s most vulnerable rough sleepers. Within its first year, the project has housed 42 individuals and 8 families.
God, that’s negligible.
The infographic for the project in Perth is extremely disturbing. Worse than I’d suspected.
That infographic rings quite true, huge problem besides just finding these people somewhere to live.
If they have a mental illness and drug problem they have probably been kicked out of all hostels who won’t take people if they are a threat to others living there
Funny how some people look at it, they can be zombie meth heads who threaten shoppers in the CBD and affect business but they aren’t a result of modern society were money is the bottom line and people are expendable.
I imagine though they we will always have homeless as their may just be some people who can’t live a “normal” life due to whatever reasons.
Could be quite easy to become homeless, lose job, have no savings, no family or friends and get kicked out of a rental and there you are on the street.
mollwollfumble said:
JudgeMental said:
https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/news-and-media/582019-city-welcomes-partnership-tackle-homelessness-fremantlehttps://www.csi.edu.au/research/project/50-lives-50-homes-first-year-evaluation-report/
Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes. Why limit it to 50 lives?
> Perth’s most vulnerable rough sleepers. Within its first year, the project has housed 42 individuals and 8 families.
God, that’s negligible.
The infographic for the project in Perth is extremely disturbing. Worse than I’d suspected.
>Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes.
That’s what I’m aiming for. 50 homes each with a capacity of 50 people.
> If space is so short that you are stacking the cars of homeless people then that land is far too valuable to go to homeless people.
People with homes, when they have cars and car parking, can live a long way from laundromats, railway stations, fast food outlets, public toilets, etc. Petrol is not an impossible expense except for the homeless. Homeless people have to live on more valuable land.
> Where land is cheaper you can have ordinary parking areas. Bit like caravan parks.
Yes. I very much like caravan parks as a model for living. Land has to be really really cheap for that, a common arrangement is to build caravan parks on land subject to flooding.
mollwollfumble said:
mollwollfumble said:
JudgeMental said:
https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/news-and-media/582019-city-welcomes-partnership-tackle-homelessness-fremantlehttps://www.csi.edu.au/research/project/50-lives-50-homes-first-year-evaluation-report/
Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes. Why limit it to 50 lives?
> Perth’s most vulnerable rough sleepers. Within its first year, the project has housed 42 individuals and 8 families.
God, that’s negligible.
The infographic for the project in Perth is extremely disturbing. Worse than I’d suspected.
>Nothing wrong with 2,500 lives 50 homes.
That’s what I’m aiming for. 50 homes each with a capacity of 50 people.
> If space is so short that you are stacking the cars of homeless people then that land is far too valuable to go to homeless people.
People with homes, when they have cars and car parking, can live a long way from laundromats, railway stations, fast food outlets, public toilets, etc. Petrol is not an impossible expense except for the homeless. Homeless people have to live on more valuable land.
> Where land is cheaper you can have ordinary parking areas. Bit like caravan parks.
Yes. I very much like caravan parks as a model for living. Land has to be really really cheap for that, a common arrangement is to build caravan parks on land subject to flooding.
In the Perth CBD they camp outside David Jones (both entrances), what was Bankwest but has been empty for years, outside Myers and a few random sheltered doorways and outside the public trustee, that is the way I walk to work so others places would exist I don’t see. No public toilets that aren’t part of a shop or pay to use so where do you go when you need a toilet, anywhere you can I suppose. They do leave a mess behind but what else can they do, probably not overly inclined to use a bin. It must be cleaned up before the shops open or when they leave as its not the unclean when I go home. They either have some money or people and food outlets give them food, as food containers and wrappers are visible. I remember seeing one man buy a guy a Subway roll so he had something to eat so people in general have empathy for their situation.
Homelessness is a reflection of our failing system and I imagine it will get massively worse over the next few decades when we are trying to cope with the cost of climate change and its associated effects.
Cymek said:
That infographic rings quite true, huge problem besides just finding these people somewhere to live.
If they have a mental illness and drug problem they have probably been kicked out of all hostels who won’t take people if they are a threat to others living there
Funny how some people look at it, they can be zombie meth heads who threaten shoppers in the CBD and affect business but they aren’t a result of modern society were money is the bottom line and people are expendable.
I imagine though they we will always have homeless as their may just be some people who can’t live a “normal” life due to whatever reasons.
Could be quite easy to become homeless, lose job, have no savings, no family or friends and get kicked out of a rental and there you are on the street.
Is a “travelling salesman” homeless?
It all boils down to “quality of life”, as mollwollfumble has said before.
> Could be quite easy to become homeless, lose job, have no savings, no family or friends and get kicked out of a rental and there you are on the street.
So exceedingly easy in the current rental market ruled by real estate agents, that it’s a wonder that almost all of the people aren’t homeless. A real estate agent will never approve a homeless person as a tenant. And the rental cost – impossibly high.
There are hundreds of places at homeless shelters in Perth, not enough, but a further problem is that the conditions placed on accommodation, such as by the Salvos, usually include giving up the drink. This basically means alcoholic homeless people have pretty much no chance. It would probably be better if they housed them, gave them evidence-based support for dealing with their alcoholism but not kick them the fuck put for drinking. Give them a chance to get their shit together.
dv said:
There are hundreds of places at homeless shelters in Perth, not enough, but a further problem is that the conditions placed on accommodation, such as by the Salvos, usually include giving up the drink. This basically means alcoholic homeless people have pretty much no chance. It would probably be better if they housed them, gave them evidence-based support for dealing with their alcoholism but not kick them the fuck put for drinking. Give them a chance to get their shit together.
I suppose they try to function as rehab with strict guidelines about what you can do there and it doesn’t work most of the time.
Some people prefer to live on the street as they have more money, shelters / supported accommodation take most of any government payment you get, like 90% of it
Divine Angel said:
AwesomeO said:
Pj O Rourke with a bit of TIC in one of his economic essays remarked that that you can’t cure homelessness by giving homeless people houses.
Just like you can’t cure poverty by giving money to poor people.
Except you literally can do exactly both of those things
dv said:
Divine Angel said:
AwesomeO said:
Pj O Rourke with a bit of TIC in one of his economic essays remarked that that you can’t cure homelessness by giving homeless people houses.
Just like you can’t cure poverty by giving money to poor people.
Except you literally can do exactly both of those things
well, in the short term
poikilotherm said:
wait, won’t that double the figures for homeless people?
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.
Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.
The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
Arts said:
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
A couple of my colleague volunteers for street doctor that goes and visits the homeless in various locations around Perth seem a useful and smart thing to do.
Arts said:
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-20/transportable-shelters-in-new-approach-for-homelesssness/11222358
Cymek said:
Arts said:
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
A couple of my colleague volunteers for street doctor that goes and visits the homeless in various locations around Perth seem a useful and smart thing to do.
As we enter the freeway on that horrible part near the QV1 building where you have two lanes trying to cross over four lanes also trying to cross over, there is some bushland at the top of the wall (I enter off Murray St) and some permanent residents have built their home in the bushes. You can see them quite clearly laying in there most days… and in summer they attach some sort of tarp (probably a tarp) against the inside of the bush to block out the sun… there are also other tenths like structures alone there too…
Also in the place where I intern (I won’t mention the suburb but it’s at the southern end of the railway line) they have a group of volunteers who patrol the hot spots at night and provide care and support to the H&SP… with access to other support services like what your colleagues volunteer for… it’s a pretty neat initiative.
Arts said:
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
I absolutely agree with the lockers. I was planning to have them automatically open in a fortnight, to minimise the risk of theft of locker contents by just hanging about until one unlocks.
Numerical code or thumbprint lock? I’m thinking thumbprint lock because i have met a couple of people incapable of remembering a four digit number. (I’ve also met two people incapable of remembering their own name). But some may object to thumbprint lock as an invasion of privacy. Opinions?
> shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters … somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.
Yes, my “flop dorm” is intended to be something like that. It’s a proper room unlike a bus shelter, but has openings at both ends without doors, and complete protection from the
elements. From cold as well as from rain and most of the wind.
> The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective
Oh dear, that had not occurred to me.
> Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful.
But well, aren’t you just arguing that gaols are useless? I wouldn’t agree that they are useless, or that that was a valid argument for demolishing gaols.
> You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also.
I think you can. For a long time, the problem of aboriginal alcoholism in Australia was successfully dealt with by denying some of them alcohol. It wasn’t a perfect solution to the problem, but it did work for some 30 or so years, until such time as they could handle alcohol safely.
Certainly there are underlying issues that need to be dealt with separately. But such problems as violent assault, theft and rape by the drinker are a consequence of alcoholism. Not a cause of the alcoholism.
Arts said:
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
Well, right.
My perspective is that Australia is a ridiculously wealthy country, and that there should be no impediment to providing basic accommodation to anyone who wants it.
“Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence. “
Right. Paradoxically, some people feel that it is a more secure option. If you’re in a shelter or renting accommodation, you’re always worried about losing it: people want things from you, they want to inspect your private stuff for contraband, they have expectations. If all you need is your bag and some concrete, then there seems not much can go wrong from there.
In my view, there’s a lot that can go wrong, including being straight murdered or otherwise dying early. I don’t think there’d be many homeless people who would choose to sleep literally on the street if they had the option of a room with a door, secure, no questions asked, no requirements, no conditions, private, can’t lose access to it no matter what.
The other thing is that I think agencies need to be better at providing services to people with no fixed address.
Cymek said:
A couple of my colleague volunteers for street doctor that goes and visits the homeless in various locations around Perth seem a useful and smart thing to do.
Missy was homeless for nearly a year and in that time met no doctors, no social workers, no ministers, no charity workers, no volunteers, and only one policeman.
The system doesn’t work.
mollwollfumble said:
Cymek said:A couple of my colleague volunteers for street doctor that goes and visits the homeless in various locations around Perth seem a useful and smart thing to do.
Missy was homeless for nearly a year and in that time met no doctors, no social workers, no ministers, no charity workers, no volunteers, and only one policeman.
The system doesn’t work.
Not really, did she ask for help and not get it or she didn’t want it and no one bothered trying.
Lost of homelessness is hidden as they aren’t quite street people but don’t have stable accommodation and go from place to place but if some address exists even if its old they aren’t homeless.
Young women being the most vulnerable as homeless would need even more help than others
dv said:
Arts said:
SO, where I have been doing my internship this semester has started a multi organisational conference for “Homeless and street Present people”. (This is what we call them now). Some of the suggested initiatives are to have lockers for the target audience so they can store their belongings during the day ( I believe this has been trialled in Bunbury) The lockers are set to open automatically after 12 hours so nothing illegal can be stored in them. Near the lockers are some shelters that from the plan, look like big bus shelters (like the picture above) that TA’s can sleep in and be somewhat sheltered from the elements, without being hidden away.Also there is the Sleep Bus https://www.sleepbus.org, that solves the issue of land usage (apart from the transitional for the night) and permanency and upkeep.
Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence.The issue of turning away people who will not comply with ‘house rules’ in shelters usually stems from a funding perspective (Ie the funding comes from a specific charity group with values to uphold). Shelters can and do sometimes provide evidence based options for treatment, but, like with all treatment, it has to be complied with by the individual and acceptance of a ‘problem’ is the first step – this does not always occur. Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful. The comorbidity of these types of issues is significant. You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also, many of which may be social expectation based.
Well, right.
My perspective is that Australia is a ridiculously wealthy country, and that there should be no impediment to providing basic accommodation to anyone who wants it.
“Another issue that has been mentioned is that some people simply prefer street living, it’s the local store owners and the councils that do not approve of their lifestyle or presence. “
Right. Paradoxically, some people feel that it is a more secure option. If you’re in a shelter or renting accommodation, you’re always worried about losing it: people want things from you, they want to inspect your private stuff for contraband, they have expectations. If all you need is your bag and some concrete, then there seems not much can go wrong from there.
In my view, there’s a lot that can go wrong, including being straight murdered or otherwise dying early. I don’t think there’d be many homeless people who would choose to sleep literally on the street if they had the option of a room with a door, secure, no questions asked, no requirements, no conditions, private, can’t lose access to it no matter what.
The other thing is that I think agencies need to be better at providing services to people with no fixed address.
Agree on all points there, except that the murder of street people in Australia is very rare.
Some ideas
! A lot of office space is empty at night, that could be repurposed for sleeping.
2 Building buildings that have dual purpose for homeless to sleep during the night that can be repurposed during the day for other use.
3 Japanese style sleeping pods for night sleeping.
4 Underground city tunnels for homeless to sleep in at night that can be repurposed during the day for city transport.
5 Old dis used buses trains that could be retasked for sleeping homeless.
Cymek said:
mollwollfumble said:
Cymek said:A couple of my colleague volunteers for street doctor that goes and visits the homeless in various locations around Perth seem a useful and smart thing to do.
Missy was homeless for nearly a year and in that time met no doctors, no social workers, no ministers, no charity workers, no volunteers, and only one policeman.
The system doesn’t work.
Not really, did she ask for help and not get it or she didn’t want it and no one bothered trying.
Lost of homelessness is hidden as they aren’t quite street people but don’t have stable accommodation and go from place to place but if some address exists even if its old they aren’t homeless.
Young women being the most vulnerable as homeless would need even more help than others
This was homelessness sleeping in a car, most of the time. What would have helped is security guards trained in social work. And also, to a lesser extent a social worker on the trains.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Some ideas! A lot of office space is empty at night, that could be repurposed for sleeping.
I mean a lot of the stuff that is done in offices can be done from home, now. You could probably convert 90% of the office space in the city into housing.
mollwollfumble said:
Agree on all points there, except that the murder of street people in Australia is very rare.
Well happily the overall homicide rates in Australia are low but early mortality generally is 4 times higher than the general population.
And one other thing.
No one is born homeless. We’ve got to get better at early intervention, providing assistance to people at risk of homelessness before they fall right through the safety net.
mollwollfumble said:
Cymek said:
mollwollfumble said:Missy was homeless for nearly a year and in that time met no doctors, no social workers, no ministers, no charity workers, no volunteers, and only one policeman.
The system doesn’t work.
Not really, did she ask for help and not get it or she didn’t want it and no one bothered trying.
Lost of homelessness is hidden as they aren’t quite street people but don’t have stable accommodation and go from place to place but if some address exists even if its old they aren’t homeless.
Young women being the most vulnerable as homeless would need even more help than others
This was homelessness sleeping in a car, most of the time. What would have helped is security guards trained in social work. And also, to a lesser extent a social worker on the trains.
You don’t have to answer as its personal but why did she become homeless.
I can relate as my eldest left/got kicked out as she became very difficult when in Year 12, really nasty fights with Mrs Cymek who was equally as bad, I side with my children when she was wrong as she is just (should I say that) my wife whilst they are my offspring and I have more responsibility to them than her.
I like DA’s suggestion of using vacant homes or vacant businesses.
A state register of using such buildings for that purpose may help.
dv said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Some ideas! A lot of office space is empty at night, that could be repurposed for sleeping.
I mean a lot of the stuff that is done in offices can be done from home, now. You could probably convert 90% of the office space in the city into housing.
The old Bankwest building in Barrack Street has been empty for years, few people sleep in the sheltered entrance but the building is I assume locked up. Worry is if they are inside whilst better sheltered can’t get away if violence starts compared to out in the open.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Some ideas! A lot of office space is empty at night, that could be repurposed for sleeping.
2 Building buildings that have dual purpose for homeless to sleep during the night that can be repurposed during the day for other use.
3 Japanese style sleeping pods for night sleeping.
4 Underground city tunnels for homeless to sleep in at night that can be repurposed during the day for city transport.
5 Old disused buses trains that could be retasked for sleeping homeless.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Particularly the first two.
On the third, one of my plans was to build a capsule hotel and homeless shelter in one building, and use the capsule hotel to fund the homeless shelter. The same staff look after both, spending most of their time in the capsule hotel, and if the homeless get fed up with the shelter they can upgrade to the capsule hotel. It’s still an idea I very much like.
The capsule hotel would be good for city workers who have to work late or do night shift, as well as conferemce attendees. One of my design challenges is to discourage wealthy people who aren’t homeless from using up all the beds in the homeless shelter.
> why did she become homeless
A psychotic partner.
Sporting stadiums have a lot of space under the seating areas.
Those spaces could easily be used for sleeping pods.
Tau.Neutrino said:
I like DA’s suggestion of using vacant homes or vacant businesses.A state register of using such buildings for that purpose may help.
I just found out recently.
There is a register of homes for that purpose, anybody who owns a second home can register to have that home occupied by homeless people. I don’t know how many landlords would want to do this.
No one will let their unused properties or office buildings etc to be used by the homeless. Not without rent anyway and probably a higher rent to mitigate against damage.
AwesomeO said:
No one will let their unused properties or office buildings etc to be used by the homeless. Not without rent anyway and probably a higher rent to mitigate against damage.
And theft.
>>>The capsule hotel would be good for city workers who have to work late or do night shift, as well as conferemce attendees. One of my design challenges is to discourage wealthy people who aren’t homeless from using up all the beds in the homeless shelter.
Homeless have a sleeping pod,
The more wealthy have slightly larger area with a foldout desk to work from during the day.
You can’t stack homeless people together, that always fails. I think the best solution is probably the most mundane, govt buys or builds houses, sprinkle them around and support who you put in them. You could design a homeless house which is to an extent vandal proof but it shouldn’t be obvious, ie concrete walls that just need a paint afterwards.
AwesomeO said:
You can’t stack homeless people together, that always fails. I think the best solution is probably the most mundane, govt buys or builds houses, sprinkle them around and support who you put in them. You could design a homeless house which is to an extent vandal proof but it shouldn’t be obvious, ie concrete walls that just need a paint afterwards.
Yeah, houses are best.
AwesomeO said:
You can’t stack homeless people together, that always fails. I think the best solution is probably the most mundane, govt buys or builds houses, sprinkle them around and support who you put in them. You could design a homeless house which is to an extent vandal proof but it shouldn’t be obvious, ie concrete walls that just need a paint afterwards.
Some homeless people aren’t nice and spoil it for the others and stacking them probably encourages prey and predator behaviour.
Tau.Neutrino said:
>>>The capsule hotel would be good for city workers who have to work late or do night shift, as well as conferemce attendees. One of my design challenges is to discourage wealthy people who aren’t homeless from using up all the beds in the homeless shelter.Homeless have a sleeping pod,
The more wealthy have slightly larger area with a fold-out desk to work from during the day.
You then scale up adding in other features like bicycle storage, small backpack storage
Cymek said:
AwesomeO said:
You can’t stack homeless people together, that always fails. I think the best solution is probably the most mundane, govt buys or builds houses, sprinkle them around and support who you put in them. You could design a homeless house which is to an extent vandal proof but it shouldn’t be obvious, ie concrete walls that just need a paint afterwards.
Some homeless people aren’t nice and spoil it for the others and stacking them probably encourages prey and predator behaviour.
Yes.
Different solutions for different types of homeless people.
Find the most suitable spaces that match the person.
*Gale’s story:
My Newstart is around $700 p/f (including rent assistance) my bills are:
Rent $590 p/f
Internet $35p/f (necessary to find jobs)
Power $47.5 p/f
Health insurance $15p/f
Fuel $15 p/f (necessary for mandatory appointments and interviews)
Mobile phone $0 (mum pays)
Medications (paid for from my savings)
So that leaves me with $30.75 per fortnight for food, this fortnight because I bought fresh fruit and veg my groceries were $85, I don’t eat much meat because I can’t afford it
I have an injury to my knee which limits my mobility, making it harder to get work. I should be attending physio fortnightly to heal it, but I certainly can’t afford that.
I am slowly draining my savings to pay excess expenses like rego, insurance, car repairs or things like TP or washing powder, along with my two asthma medications and my adhd medication, at this point I only have 4 weeks savings left.
I called centrelink and their solution was to “get someone to take over my lease” they had no suggestion on where I could live, but said my situation is my own fault because I pay so much rent. I signed the lease when I was working and could afford it.
Moving back in with parents isn’t an option as mum is in Brisbane and I had to move to Hervey Bay to take a 2 month contract job (I was told that unless I didn’t like it, the contract would be renewed, but they decided to go in a different direction and it wasn’t renewed). It would cost $2,000-$3,000 to move back and the stress of living with my brother who has bipolar among other things is terrible for my mental health.
I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
On top of it all, I am on the inhumane indue card. It took a whole day and 4 phone calls to even be given the ability to transfer all the quarantined money out of the card to pay rent. The transfers regularly get declined due to me apparently exceeding my transfer limit, I then have to call indue to sort it out. Although I have set up automatic transfers I spend 2 days anxiously checking the indue account to see if it has worked.
I tried to get a medical exemption to come off the card, but I was told “you don’t quality as it can’t cause stress as you have the ability to transfer all the money out” I tried to explain that it is still stressful because it doesn’t always work and was told that if I don’t want it I should go and get a job. A social worker told me that.
Junior solicitor is not an easy position to come by, the legal industry is made up of 60,000 people. There are 10,000 law grads each year, something I never knew until I had already graduated. I have applied for jobs in retail and childcare and was told that I would be a liability as I’m an admitted solicitor. The same social worker told me to take my qualifications off my resume and not tell potential employers, that is very dishonest, and all it takes is a simple google search of my name to find out that I applied for solicitor admission.
Neither the media nor centrelink care about people like me, they just want to make us all out to be dole bludgers. I am trying to get a job, but if I can’t there is a high probability I will end up homeless
I questioned the social worker why I had to stay on the card costing the government 12k when I don’t even use it and he said I should be glad that I was given the exception to transfer my rent money.” – Gale in Hinkler
( * real name withheld)
https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/797448133983336?__tn__=K-R
Something that might need consideration is centerlink payments and the way homeless people manage their money.
If homeless people cannot manage their own pensions, a portion of the income could be directed to homeless providers.
Homeless providers could cover any form of housing from pods.and public facilities, to vacant buildings and vacant homes.
People can scale up based on a trust system, from pods or public facilities then to vacant businesses then to vacant homes.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Something that might need consideration is centerlink payments and the way homeless people manage their money.If homeless people cannot manage their own pensions, a portion of the income could be directed to homeless providers.
Homeless providers could cover any form of housing from pods.and public facilities, to vacant buildings and vacant homes.
People can scale up based on a trust system, from pods or public facilities then to vacant businesses then to vacant homes.
But the fall out from Indue is an increase in bad rent payments…an increase in evictions due to unpaid rents (some evictions of people who had a perfect rental record until going on the card)
Hobart has gone from a small homeless population to working homeless as the rents have doubled.
There is a growing reticence to deal with homeless because it is seen to be better for the homeless to move somewhere else. When somewhere(anywhere) homes its homeless there is incoming homeless to take advantage of whatever system gets put in place. IMO this is why it is a federal not state concern.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Something that might need consideration is centerlink payments and the way homeless people manage their money.If homeless people cannot manage their own pensions, a portion of the income could be directed to homeless providers.
Homeless providers could cover any form of housing from pods.and public facilities, to vacant buildings and vacant homes.
People can scale up based on a trust system, from pods or public facilities then to vacant businesses then to vacant homes.
The government could reward vacant businesses owners and vacant home owners by placing themselves on a registry for that purpose of using the building for the homeless. Insurance is covered by the Government
Homeless providers access the registry and then place a trusted person into the vacant building who is working, but only after a vetted system of trust
Homeless people can then access homes by using the trusted person method.
The Government then covers the rent for that person until they become more self sufficient.
When I was growing up there were two cheap houses provided by governments, War Service homes and Housing Commission homes, don’t know what happened to those.
sarahs mum said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Something that might need consideration is centerlink payments and the way homeless people manage their money.If homeless people cannot manage their own pensions, a portion of the income could be directed to homeless providers.
Homeless providers could cover any form of housing from pods.and public facilities, to vacant buildings and vacant homes.
People can scale up based on a trust system, from pods or public facilities then to vacant businesses then to vacant homes.
But the fall out from Indue is an increase in bad rent payments…an increase in evictions due to unpaid rents (some evictions of people who had a perfect rental record until going on the card)
Hobart has gone from a small homeless population to working homeless as the rents have doubled.
There is a growing reticence to deal with homeless because it is seen to be better for the homeless to move somewhere else. When somewhere(anywhere) homes its homeless there is incoming homeless to take advantage of whatever system gets put in place. IMO this is why it is a federal not state concern.
We need incentive programs for building owners
A trust system for homeless people
sarahs mum said:
*Gale’s story:My Newstart is around $700 p/f (including rent assistance) my bills are:
Rent $590 p/f
Internet $35p/f (necessary to find jobs)
Power $47.5 p/f
Health insurance $15p/f
Fuel $15 p/f (necessary for mandatory appointments and interviews)
Mobile phone $0 (mum pays)
Medications (paid for from my savings)So that leaves me with $30.75 per fortnight for food, this fortnight because I bought fresh fruit and veg my groceries were $85, I don’t eat much meat because I can’t afford it
I have an injury to my knee which limits my mobility, making it harder to get work. I should be attending physio fortnightly to heal it, but I certainly can’t afford that.
I am slowly draining my savings to pay excess expenses like rego, insurance, car repairs or things like TP or washing powder, along with my two asthma medications and my adhd medication, at this point I only have 4 weeks savings left.
I called centrelink and their solution was to “get someone to take over my lease” they had no suggestion on where I could live, but said my situation is my own fault because I pay so much rent. I signed the lease when I was working and could afford it.
Moving back in with parents isn’t an option as mum is in Brisbane and I had to move to Hervey Bay to take a 2 month contract job (I was told that unless I didn’t like it, the contract would be renewed, but they decided to go in a different direction and it wasn’t renewed). It would cost $2,000-$3,000 to move back and the stress of living with my brother who has bipolar among other things is terrible for my mental health.
I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
On top of it all, I am on the inhumane indue card. It took a whole day and 4 phone calls to even be given the ability to transfer all the quarantined money out of the card to pay rent. The transfers regularly get declined due to me apparently exceeding my transfer limit, I then have to call indue to sort it out. Although I have set up automatic transfers I spend 2 days anxiously checking the indue account to see if it has worked.
I tried to get a medical exemption to come off the card, but I was told “you don’t quality as it can’t cause stress as you have the ability to transfer all the money out” I tried to explain that it is still stressful because it doesn’t always work and was told that if I don’t want it I should go and get a job. A social worker told me that.
Junior solicitor is not an easy position to come by, the legal industry is made up of 60,000 people. There are 10,000 law grads each year, something I never knew until I had already graduated. I have applied for jobs in retail and childcare and was told that I would be a liability as I’m an admitted solicitor. The same social worker told me to take my qualifications off my resume and not tell potential employers, that is very dishonest, and all it takes is a simple google search of my name to find out that I applied for solicitor admission.
Neither the media nor centrelink care about people like me, they just want to make us all out to be dole bludgers. I am trying to get a job, but if I can’t there is a high probability I will end up homeless
I questioned the social worker why I had to stay on the card costing the government 12k when I don’t even use it and he said I should be glad that I was given the exception to transfer my rent money.” – Gale in Hinkler
( * real name withheld)
https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/797448133983336?__tn__=K-R
> Rent $590 p/f
That’s obscene.
> I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
If you have even one degree with first class honours, then you don’t have any of those four mental illnesses. Good on them for not approving the disability pension. You may have some other serious mental condition, bit not those four.
I don’t even want to know what an “indue card is”. Don’t tell me.
Peak Warming Man said:
When I was growing up there were two cheap houses provided by governments, War Service homes and Housing Commission homes, don’t know what happened to those.
War service homes don’t happen anymore to my knowledge. I grew up in a war service home/area. The war service home loan was very cheap. I remember Dad told mum before he died not to pay off the house because there were the occasional freebies…like the guttering in the street was free to those with war service loans. Mu promptly paid off the loan when Dad died.
In Tasmania the govt has sold much of the housing comm stock. They signed over a lot of stock to a company that was supposed to use the collateral to build more homes. not a lot of new homes have been built but quite a lot of the stock has been sold off. The govt however has retained the debt.
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:*Gale’s story:My Newstart is around $700 p/f (including rent assistance) my bills are:
Rent $590 p/f
Internet $35p/f (necessary to find jobs)
Power $47.5 p/f
Health insurance $15p/f
Fuel $15 p/f (necessary for mandatory appointments and interviews)
Mobile phone $0 (mum pays)
Medications (paid for from my savings)So that leaves me with $30.75 per fortnight for food, this fortnight because I bought fresh fruit and veg my groceries were $85, I don’t eat much meat because I can’t afford it
I have an injury to my knee which limits my mobility, making it harder to get work. I should be attending physio fortnightly to heal it, but I certainly can’t afford that.
I am slowly draining my savings to pay excess expenses like rego, insurance, car repairs or things like TP or washing powder, along with my two asthma medications and my adhd medication, at this point I only have 4 weeks savings left.
I called centrelink and their solution was to “get someone to take over my lease” they had no suggestion on where I could live, but said my situation is my own fault because I pay so much rent. I signed the lease when I was working and could afford it.
Moving back in with parents isn’t an option as mum is in Brisbane and I had to move to Hervey Bay to take a 2 month contract job (I was told that unless I didn’t like it, the contract would be renewed, but they decided to go in a different direction and it wasn’t renewed). It would cost $2,000-$3,000 to move back and the stress of living with my brother who has bipolar among other things is terrible for my mental health.
I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
On top of it all, I am on the inhumane indue card. It took a whole day and 4 phone calls to even be given the ability to transfer all the quarantined money out of the card to pay rent. The transfers regularly get declined due to me apparently exceeding my transfer limit, I then have to call indue to sort it out. Although I have set up automatic transfers I spend 2 days anxiously checking the indue account to see if it has worked.
I tried to get a medical exemption to come off the card, but I was told “you don’t quality as it can’t cause stress as you have the ability to transfer all the money out” I tried to explain that it is still stressful because it doesn’t always work and was told that if I don’t want it I should go and get a job. A social worker told me that.
Junior solicitor is not an easy position to come by, the legal industry is made up of 60,000 people. There are 10,000 law grads each year, something I never knew until I had already graduated. I have applied for jobs in retail and childcare and was told that I would be a liability as I’m an admitted solicitor. The same social worker told me to take my qualifications off my resume and not tell potential employers, that is very dishonest, and all it takes is a simple google search of my name to find out that I applied for solicitor admission.
Neither the media nor centrelink care about people like me, they just want to make us all out to be dole bludgers. I am trying to get a job, but if I can’t there is a high probability I will end up homeless
I questioned the social worker why I had to stay on the card costing the government 12k when I don’t even use it and he said I should be glad that I was given the exception to transfer my rent money.” – Gale in Hinkler
( * real name withheld)
https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/797448133983336?__tn__=K-R
> Rent $590 p/f
That’s obscene.
> I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
If you have even one degree with first class honours, then you don’t have any of those four mental illnesses. Good on them for not approving the disability pension. You may have some other serious mental condition, bit not those four.
I don’t even want to know what an “indue card is”. Don’t tell me.
I managed honours and masters with depression and ptsd.
mollwollfumble said:
> Rent $590 p/f
That’s obscene.
That is very cheap in most markets.
sarahs mum said:
mollwollfumble said:
sarahs mum said:*Gale’s story:My Newstart is around $700 p/f (including rent assistance) my bills are:
Rent $590 p/f
Internet $35p/f (necessary to find jobs)
Power $47.5 p/f
Health insurance $15p/f
Fuel $15 p/f (necessary for mandatory appointments and interviews)
Mobile phone $0 (mum pays)
Medications (paid for from my savings)So that leaves me with $30.75 per fortnight for food, this fortnight because I bought fresh fruit and veg my groceries were $85, I don’t eat much meat because I can’t afford it
I have an injury to my knee which limits my mobility, making it harder to get work. I should be attending physio fortnightly to heal it, but I certainly can’t afford that.
I am slowly draining my savings to pay excess expenses like rego, insurance, car repairs or things like TP or washing powder, along with my two asthma medications and my adhd medication, at this point I only have 4 weeks savings left.
I called centrelink and their solution was to “get someone to take over my lease” they had no suggestion on where I could live, but said my situation is my own fault because I pay so much rent. I signed the lease when I was working and could afford it.
Moving back in with parents isn’t an option as mum is in Brisbane and I had to move to Hervey Bay to take a 2 month contract job (I was told that unless I didn’t like it, the contract would be renewed, but they decided to go in a different direction and it wasn’t renewed). It would cost $2,000-$3,000 to move back and the stress of living with my brother who has bipolar among other things is terrible for my mental health.
I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
On top of it all, I am on the inhumane indue card. It took a whole day and 4 phone calls to even be given the ability to transfer all the quarantined money out of the card to pay rent. The transfers regularly get declined due to me apparently exceeding my transfer limit, I then have to call indue to sort it out. Although I have set up automatic transfers I spend 2 days anxiously checking the indue account to see if it has worked.
I tried to get a medical exemption to come off the card, but I was told “you don’t quality as it can’t cause stress as you have the ability to transfer all the money out” I tried to explain that it is still stressful because it doesn’t always work and was told that if I don’t want it I should go and get a job. A social worker told me that.
Junior solicitor is not an easy position to come by, the legal industry is made up of 60,000 people. There are 10,000 law grads each year, something I never knew until I had already graduated. I have applied for jobs in retail and childcare and was told that I would be a liability as I’m an admitted solicitor. The same social worker told me to take my qualifications off my resume and not tell potential employers, that is very dishonest, and all it takes is a simple google search of my name to find out that I applied for solicitor admission.
Neither the media nor centrelink care about people like me, they just want to make us all out to be dole bludgers. I am trying to get a job, but if I can’t there is a high probability I will end up homeless
I questioned the social worker why I had to stay on the card costing the government 12k when I don’t even use it and he said I should be glad that I was given the exception to transfer my rent money.” – Gale in Hinkler
( * real name withheld)
https://www.facebook.com/SAYNOSEVEN/posts/797448133983336?__tn__=K-R
> Rent $590 p/f
That’s obscene.
> I have autism, adhd, anxiety and depression, which makes it difficult for me to find and hold down a job, but I’m not “disabled enough” to qualify for disability. I have 3 degrees and first class honours, at 22 I should not be subjected to this.
If you have even one degree with first class honours, then you don’t have any of those four mental illnesses. Good on them for not approving the disability pension. You may have some other serious mental condition, bit not those four.
I don’t even want to know what an “indue card is”. Don’t tell me.
I managed honours and masters with depression and ptsd.
and autism is a spectrum. My non verbal head banging nephew is unlikely to study as he still can’t communicate well outside screaming his dissatisfaction but there are many autistic people with differing skillsets.
Like that Swedish girl who wants to save the world that just got smashed by Bolt.
We need incentive programs for building owners
A trust system for homeless people
The government could reward vacant businesses owners and vacant home owners by placing themselves on a registry for that purpose of using the building for the homeless. Insurance is covered by the Government, the incentive part is rent money once a suitable homeless person is found.
Homeless providers access the registry and then place a trusted person into the vacant building who is working, but only after a vetted system of trust, destructive people will be directed away from vacant homes.
Homeless people can then access homes by using the trusted person method.
The Government then covers the rent for that person until they become more self sufficient.
party_pants said:
mollwollfumble said:> Rent $590 p/f
That’s obscene.
That is very cheap in most markets.
A unit in one of the cheaper and nastier Hobart northern suburbs.
Have any studies been made into the way homeless people use space?
Tau.Neutrino said:
Have any studies been made into the way homeless people use space?
No. IHomelessness is not a physical problem.
I know the stack method (pods) doesn’t feel right to some people but it works for some people.
It is working in Japan and elsewhere.
Some people prefer being on their own in the suburbs while others don’t mind less private areas.
Tau.Neutrino said:
I know the stack method (pods) doesn’t feel right to some people but it works for some people.It is working in Japan and elsewhere.
Some people prefer being on their own in the suburbs while others don’t mind less private areas.
When I said stack I was referring to flats dedicated to low incomes. They don’t work.
Peak Warming Man said:
When I was growing up there were two cheap houses provided by governments, War Service homes and Housing Commission homes, don’t know what happened to those.
Australia does still have a big public housing sector, making up around 5% of homes.
AwesomeO said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I know the stack method (pods) doesn’t feel right to some people but it works for some people.It is working in Japan and elsewhere.
Some people prefer being on their own in the suburbs while others don’t mind less private areas.
When I said stack I was referring to flats dedicated to low incomes. They don’t work.
Yes, the social politics of such housing arrangements.
>“I have applied for jobs in retail and childcare and was told that I would be a liability as I’m an admitted solicitor. The same social worker told me to take my qualifications off my resume and not tell potential employers”
what exactly does that mean..
troublingly overqualified, in law.
transition said:
>“I have applied for jobs in retail and childcare and was told that I would be a liability as I’m an admitted solicitor. The same social worker told me to take my qualifications off my resume and not tell potential employers”what exactly does that mean..
troublingly overqualified, in law.
comes close to inappropriate qualifications
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
When I was growing up there were two cheap houses provided by governments, War Service homes and Housing Commission homes, don’t know what happened to those.
Australia does still have a big public housing sector, making up around 5% of homes.
OTOH the waiting list for public housing is around 190000 people and these places don’t go to actually homeless people.
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Have any studies been made into the way homeless people use space?No. IHomelessness is not a physical problem.
To understand the homeless, studies should be done to see how they use space and to discover what their minimum requirements are in relation to space, and how they use it over the course of the whole day, other minimum requirements to look at would be food, clothing, hygiene, mental health, direction in life amongst others.
Tau.Neutrino said:
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Have any studies been made into the way homeless people use space?No. IHomelessness is not a physical problem.
To understand the homeless, studies should be done to see how they use space and to discover what their minimum requirements are in relation to space….
what does this even mean?
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
party_pants said:No. IHomelessness is not a physical problem.
To understand the homeless, studies should be done to see how they use space and to discover what their minimum requirements are in relation to space….
what does this even mean?
ROFL
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
party_pants said:No. IHomelessness is not a physical problem.
To understand the homeless, studies should be done to see how they use space and to discover what their minimum requirements are in relation to space….
what does this even mean?
Exactly.
sibeen said:
party_pants said:
Tau.Neutrino said:To understand the homeless, studies should be done to see how they use space and to discover what their minimum requirements are in relation to space….
what does this even mean?
ROFL
I mean they aren’t some other species … They are just someone like you or me except something went very wrong at some stage in their life. What are your requirements in relation to space?
dv said:
What are your requirements in relation to space?
I want to go there, man. and float around for a while.
I’m not homeless.
But I would think part of it would involve coldness, along with loneliness, depression and hunger, where to sleep at night, what to do during the day, how to stay away from trouble.
Tau.Neutrino said:
I’m not homeless.But I would think part of it would involve coldness, along with loneliness, depression and hunger, where to sleep at night, what to do during the day, how to stay away from trouble.
All that happens in space, man.
dv said:
dv said:
Peak Warming Man said:
When I was growing up there were two cheap houses provided by governments, War Service homes and Housing Commission homes, don’t know what happened to those.
Australia does still have a big public housing sector, making up around 5% of homes.
OTOH the waiting list for public housing is around 190000 people and these places don’t go to actually homeless people.
still’d go toward reducing it, few people are born in parks, then abandoned.
the background to the problem is probably a reluctance to provide cheap housing (government built) because that competes in a bad way (not honest capitalism cough) with private housing, you know climbing the hill, the value of private property. It works contrary to market forces, growing property values.
worst thing about talking about homelessness is I reckon it makes it (more) normal.
look there’s a homeless, sort of that it’s a person in distress, or needy person comes after.
it’s a variation of unfortunate, look at that unfortunate
Tau.Neutrino said:
sarahs mum said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Something that might need consideration is centerlink payments and the way homeless people manage their money.If homeless people cannot manage their own pensions, a portion of the income could be directed to homeless providers.
Homeless providers could cover any form of housing from pods.and public facilities, to vacant buildings and vacant homes.
People can scale up based on a trust system, from pods or public facilities then to vacant businesses then to vacant homes.
But the fall out from Indue is an increase in bad rent payments…an increase in evictions due to unpaid rents (some evictions of people who had a perfect rental record until going on the card)
Hobart has gone from a small homeless population to working homeless as the rents have doubled.
There is a growing reticence to deal with homeless because it is seen to be better for the homeless to move somewhere else. When somewhere(anywhere) homes its homeless there is incoming homeless to take advantage of whatever system gets put in place. IMO this is why it is a federal not state concern.
We need incentive programs for building owners
A trust system for homeless people
I still think it’s better to have a special-purpose homeless accommodation that is proof against unarmed violence (eg. No hollow-core doors or standard plasterboard), contains nothing suitable for use as a weapon (my own house had a window shattered by a lemon), is proof against arson (i have a plan for that), is proof against hoarding, and is proof against theft.
Ordinary houses and office buildings don’t have that level of protection.
It needs to be clear that all violent crimes committed within the building will be prosecuted. But the assumption of innocent until proven guilty is essential, so is the need for minimal punishment (such as for petty theft and drug use). In some circumstances the crime is even its own punishment, such as for self-harm.
> I managed honours and masters with depression and ptsd.
Not bad enough to qualify for a disability pension, though.
> and autism is a spectrum
IMHO that’s a huge error in DSM. Autism is not a spectrum, it’s just often difficult for a shrink to distinguish between a person pretending not to have autism and someone who doesn’t have autism. Go back to DSM IV, it was better.
> Have any studies been made into the way homeless people use space? To understand the homeless, studies should be done to see how they use space and to discover what their minimum requirements are in relation to space, and how they use it over the course of the whole day, other minimum requirements to look at would be food, clothing, hygiene, mental health, direction in life amongst others.
Excellent question. I hope so. If not, it’s a question needing an urgent answer.
I have met one homeless person who had absolutely no sense of personal space, and filled space using hoarding of for example, used tissues. But for others i suspect that the opposite is true.
> When I said stack I was referring to flats dedicated to low incomes. They don’t work.
I agree that they haven’t worked. I know one person from such a place who hacked down the door of another flat using an axe. And later murdered the person in that flat.
> Australia does still have a big public housing sector, making up around 5% of homes.
Thank you. It’s not called housing commission here any more. It’s called state department of health and human services.
> I mean they aren’t some other species … They are just someone like you or me except something went very wrong at some stage in their life. What are your requirements in relation to space?
That’s an easy one. I like my walkways to be 600 mm wide. I like to be in total control of the noise level in my space, which means i dislike “open plan” and rooms without acoustic insulation and rooms with cube corner reflectors. I avoid all spaces with foul smells. I am perfectly happy to share a bedroom with strangers, but insist on personal space in group showet rooms. I hate hard objects behind doors that make them swing back on me. I like doors to either fully open or fully shut, rather than ajar or locked. I like a space that gets above 20 degrees in the daytime and below 20 degrees at night. I like to have a pre-planned route of escape from whetever i am.
Since homeless people frequently have severe mental illness they are effectively a different species.
dv said:
sibeen said:
party_pants said:what does this even mean?
ROFL
I mean they aren’t some other species … They are just someone like you or me except something went very wrong at some stage in their life. What are your requirements in relation to space?
I met a man who came over to ask me whether he was parking in the right spot. I mentioned that I don’t go into hobart very much anymore and that things kept changing. He asked me where I lived and when I told him he said that that was where he wanted to live. He was covered in Veteran’s badges and such. I told him that sometimes I described my home as a place that would be normally held by a Vietnam vet. End of the road. Surrounded by bush. No neighbours in the view at all. He said that was what he wanted and we chatted about PTSD for a while. Hypervigilance. Difficulty with loud noises and the unexpected.
I am surrounded by thousands of acres of space. How much space do I need? My brain claims more than the 32 acres I own.
sarahs mum said:
dv said:
sibeen said:ROFL
I mean they aren’t some other species … They are just someone like you or me except something went very wrong at some stage in their life. What are your requirements in relation to space?
I met a man who came over to ask me whether he was parking in the right spot. I mentioned that I don’t go into hobart very much anymore and that things kept changing. He asked me where I lived and when I told him he said that that was where he wanted to live. He was covered in Veteran’s badges and such. I told him that sometimes I described my home as a place that would be normally held by a Vietnam vet. End of the road. Surrounded by bush. No neighbours in the view at all. He said that was what he wanted and we chatted about PTSD for a while. Hypervigilance. Difficulty with loud noises and the unexpected.
I am surrounded by thousands of acres of space. How much space do I need? My brain claims more than the 32 acres I own.
How much space does the Government own?
Tau.Neutrino said:
sarahs mum said:
dv said:I mean they aren’t some other species … They are just someone like you or me except something went very wrong at some stage in their life. What are your requirements in relation to space?
I met a man who came over to ask me whether he was parking in the right spot. I mentioned that I don’t go into hobart very much anymore and that things kept changing. He asked me where I lived and when I told him he said that that was where he wanted to live. He was covered in Veteran’s badges and such. I told him that sometimes I described my home as a place that would be normally held by a Vietnam vet. End of the road. Surrounded by bush. No neighbours in the view at all. He said that was what he wanted and we chatted about PTSD for a while. Hypervigilance. Difficulty with loud noises and the unexpected.
I am surrounded by thousands of acres of space. How much space do I need? My brain claims more than the 32 acres I own.
How much space does the Government own?
I have state forest and national park on nearly three boundaries.
sarahs mum said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
sarahs mum said:I met a man who came over to ask me whether he was parking in the right spot. I mentioned that I don’t go into hobart very much anymore and that things kept changing. He asked me where I lived and when I told him he said that that was where he wanted to live. He was covered in Veteran’s badges and such. I told him that sometimes I described my home as a place that would be normally held by a Vietnam vet. End of the road. Surrounded by bush. No neighbours in the view at all. He said that was what he wanted and we chatted about PTSD for a while. Hypervigilance. Difficulty with loud noises and the unexpected.
I am surrounded by thousands of acres of space. How much space do I need? My brain claims more than the 32 acres I own.
How much space does the Government own?
I have state forest and national park on nearly three boundaries.
So that’s one or two then?
:)
sibeen said:
sarahs mum said:
Tau.Neutrino said:How much space does the Government own?
I have state forest and national park on nearly three boundaries.
So that’s one or two then?
:)
SBS food is presently doing a doco on cocoa.
>IMHO that’s a huge error in DSM. Autism is not a spectrum, it’s just often difficult for a shrink to distinguish between a person pretending not to have autism and someone who doesn’t have autism. Go back to DSM IV, it was better.
lends to categorization, saves actually explaining the whatever in other words
like kids though, they might ask what’s that, get told, a name, then abruptly lose interest, having inherited the adult competency, a word that substitutes for an understanding, or working effort
Tau.Neutrino said:
I’m not homeless.But I would think part of it would involve coldness, along with loneliness, depression and hunger, where to sleep at night, what to do during the day, how to stay away from trouble.
Others being sexual violence, emotional violence , physical violence, drug abuse, bashings, drunkenness, being mocked at etc.
Tau.Neutrino said:
sarahs mum said:
dv said:I mean they aren’t some other species … They are just someone like you or me except something went very wrong at some stage in their life. What are your requirements in relation to space?
I met a man who came over to ask me whether he was parking in the right spot. I mentioned that I don’t go into hobart very much anymore and that things kept changing. He asked me where I lived and when I told him he said that that was where he wanted to live. He was covered in Veteran’s badges and such. I told him that sometimes I described my home as a place that would be normally held by a Vietnam vet. End of the road. Surrounded by bush. No neighbours in the view at all. He said that was what he wanted and we chatted about PTSD for a while. Hypervigilance. Difficulty with loud noises and the unexpected.
I am surrounded by thousands of acres of space. How much space do I need? My brain claims more than the 32 acres I own.
How much space does the Government own?
Got it!
What’s that huge area east of Campbelltown? Holsworthy military reserve, hindering Sydney’s road network for more than 70 years, 200 square kilometres just waiting to be repurposed.
mollwollfumble said:
> Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful.
But well, aren’t you just arguing that gaols are useless? I wouldn’t agree that they are useless, or that that was a valid argument for demolishing gaols.
not at all. Goals are perfectly fine, but you can’t force someone into treatment and expect them to have an epiphany while in it and change. There is a lot of evidence that says that enforced treatment programs are not effective. The first step towards treatment is accepting that you have a problem and wanting it to change. Note – I am not saying that treatment programs are ineffective.
mollwollfumble said:
> You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also.I think you can. For a long time, the problem of aboriginal alcoholism in Australia was successfully dealt with by denying some of them alcohol. It wasn’t a perfect solution to the problem, but it did work for some 30 or so years, until such time as they could handle alcohol safely.
Certainly there are underlying issues that need to be dealt with separately. But such problems as violent assault, theft and rape by the drinker are a consequence of alcoholism. Not a cause of the alcoholism.
I think you are being idealistic here, many addictions start from underlying causes mental illness, despair, assaults (sexual and physical, Trauma.. if you expect the behaviours to stop to have to address those issues.
The Chinese Government would move them all into one spot.
dv said:
The other thing is that I think agencies need to be better at providing services to people with no fixed address.
well, that’s probably very true. But funding is a big barrier.. and ongoing funding even bigger.
Tau.Neutrino said:
The Chinese Government would move them all into one spot.
How many are homeless in Beijing?
Western countries let homeless roam around.
dv said:
mollwollfumble said:Agree on all points there, except that the murder of street people in Australia is very rare.
Well happily the overall homicide rates in Australia are low but early mortality generally is 4 times higher than the general population.
And one other thing.
No one is born homeless. We’ve got to get better at early intervention, providing assistance to people at risk of homelessness before they fall right through the safety net.
I mean, that would be ideal.
AwesomeO said:
No one will let their unused properties or office buildings etc to be used by the homeless. Not without rent anyway and probably a higher rent to mitigate against damage.
let alone physical harm.. what happens if someone dies in your office space? what happens when someone gets bashed? raped? who is responsible? I mean if you slip over in Coles you can sure them..
Arts said:
dv said:
mollwollfumble said:Agree on all points there, except that the murder of street people in Australia is very rare.
Well happily the overall homicide rates in Australia are low but early mortality generally is 4 times higher than the general population.
And one other thing.
No one is born homeless. We’ve got to get better at early intervention, providing assistance to people at risk of homelessness before they fall right through the safety net.
I mean, that would be ideal.
People are born homeless. The other day I saw a post in Hobart homeless saying the state government is assuring the homeless that being homeless is not something in itself that will cause the children to be taken away.
Arts said:
dv said:The other thing is that I think agencies need to be better at providing services to people with no fixed address.
well, that’s probably very true. But funding is a big barrier.. and ongoing funding even bigger.
Can funding be based on photo ID of each homeless person taken care of by a service provider for meals sleeping?
How can abuse be addressed?
How to trust service providers to do the job properly and not themselves abuse homeless etc.
Arts said:
mollwollfumble said:> Forced treatment is overwhelmingly unsuccessful.
But well, aren’t you just arguing that gaols are useless? I wouldn’t agree that they are useless, or that that was a valid argument for demolishing gaols.
not at all. Goals are perfectly fine, but you can’t force someone into treatment and expect them to have an epiphany while in it and change. There is a lot of evidence that says that enforced treatment programs are not effective. The first step towards treatment is accepting that you have a problem and wanting it to change. Note – I am not saying that treatment programs are ineffective.
mollwollfumble said:
> You can’t just address alcoholism without addressing the underlying issues also.I think you can. For a long time, the problem of aboriginal alcoholism in Australia was successfully dealt with by denying some of them alcohol. It wasn’t a perfect solution to the problem, but it did work for some 30 or so years, until such time as they could handle alcohol safely.
Certainly there are underlying issues that need to be dealt with separately. But such problems as violent assault, theft and rape by the drinker are a consequence of alcoholism. Not a cause of the alcoholism.
I think you are being idealistic here, many addictions start from underlying causes mental illness, despair, assaults (sexual and physical, Trauma.. if you expect the behaviours to stop to have to address those issues.
Oh no, i don’t expect the behaviors to stop. I don’t even want the behaviours to stop. What i want is for other beople to avoid being damaged by those behaviours. I want a homeless shelter in which an innocent person can be one foot from a psychopathic killer and not just feel safe but be safe.
Do you understand the distinction? Curing the underlying cause and curing the symptoms are two completely different and unrelated problems. I have no intention of curing the underlying cause, that’s the medical medical profession’s job, not the job of the homeless shelter.
Someone from my writers group is currently liaising with council, local MPs, and other stakeholders to build a “tiny house village” in Redcliffe. The council has the land. The idea, which has been successful in Gosford NSW, is to build little houses. These houses feature a bathroom and kitchenette and are lockable. Some tiny houses have a bedroom, others use a solar bed or similar.
In the UK, shipping containers have been used to be houses. It is currently unknown what the Redcliffe tiny house village would look like.
Divine Angel said:
Someone from my writers group is currently liaising with council, local MPs, and other stakeholders to build a “tiny house village” in Redcliffe. The council has the land. The idea, which has been successful in Gosford NSW, is to build little houses. These houses feature a bathroom and kitchenette and are lockable. Some tiny houses have a bedroom, others use a solar bed or similar.In the UK, shipping containers have been used to be houses. It is currently unknown what the Redcliffe tiny house village would look like.
There is greed and prejudice at play. The councils want high rate returns. They don’t want to be condemned for slum creation.
My mind keeps going back to some of the little workman’s cottages in Battery Point that are now worth small fortunes. and I think about housing sub divisions where purchasers are required to build McMansions thus ensuring huge rate returns.
The selling off of public housing stocks coincides with the growth of neo-liberalism from the 1980s. It is pretty much graph worthy. It is planned and purposeful. Statistics show this.
In built up areas I would think the costs would be cheaper to provide a conventional bedsit. I think the real advantages of tiny houses would be in less built up areas. A tiny house subdivision or tiny house town should have some facilities. Like a community garden and an off leash dog run. As there seems to be a demand from downsizers I see no reason why tiny home social housing should not co exist with the market.(These days the norm seems to be to embed new housing comm into areas of normal land sales.)
