Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

PermeateFree said:

Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

The planet is preparing to restock the fossil fuel supply.

PermeateFree said:

Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

Good thing everyone is listening and doing everything they can to minimise our furthering impact on the planet.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

Good thing everyone is listening and doing everything they can to minimise our furthering impact on the planet.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

Good thing everyone is listening and doing everything they can to minimise our furthering impact on the planet.

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

Good thing everyone is listening and doing everything they can to minimise our furthering impact on the planet.

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Predicition is hard, especially about the future.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Sounds right.

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

Yes

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Cymek said:

I suppose all you can do is change yourself and encourages other to do it, the big boys for the most part won’t listen.

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Shameful hey

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Predicition is hard, especially about the future.

The rich are likely to become richer, whilst the poor becoming poorer. Property like houses for instance, so difficult for young people to afford, are likely to be passed down the family, who with richer parents would probably have wealthier children (better education), who need this additional wealth least.

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Predicition is hard, especially about the future.

The rich are likely to become richer, whilst the poor becoming poorer. Property like houses for instance, so difficult for young people to afford, are likely to be passed down the family, who with richer parents would probably have wealthier children (better education), who need this additional wealth least.

Kings and queens in power and wealth just not in title

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

sibeen said:

Predicition is hard, especially about the future.

The rich are likely to become richer, whilst the poor becoming poorer. Property like houses for instance, so difficult for young people to afford, are likely to be passed down the family, who with richer parents would probably have wealthier children (better education), who need this additional wealth least.

Kings and queens in power and wealth just not in title

The wealth pyramid now has an even more pronounced trickle-up action.

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

The rich are likely to become richer, whilst the poor becoming poorer. Property like houses for instance, so difficult for young people to afford, are likely to be passed down the family, who with richer parents would probably have wealthier children (better education), who need this additional wealth least.

Kings and queens in power and wealth just not in title

The wealth pyramid now has an even more pronounced trickle-up action.

It certainly does and they can consolidate power even more so

PermeateFree said:

Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

moll is pondering. I wonder if that also means that it’s the month with the fastest biosphere growth on record. Forests are benefitting greatly all around the world from this increased atmosperic CO2 and temperature. And the fastest biosphere growth is always in July. Ditto plankton in the ocean.

I chased through the report and don’t see a mention of NPP. Perhaps it’s available elsewhere.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:

Something for moll to ponder. Bloody extremist are everywhere.

>>July 2019 has been found to be the hottest month ever recorded, which is news that won’t surprise anybody who sweated through the heat wave that gripped Europe, North America and indeed much of the Northern Hemisphere this summer. This continues a long-running upwards trend, with the first six months of the year tied for second hottest and sea ice at an all-time low at both poles.

Unfortunately, these findings are far from unique. These kinds of reports are pouring out from various institutions, including the United Nations, NASA, NOAA, the World Meteorological Organization and even the White House, consistently paint a worrying bigger picture about the future of our planet. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that unprecedented changes to all aspects of human society are needed to head off the worst outcomes, and some reports say we’re already approaching the point of no return.<<

https://newatlas.com/july-2019-hottest-month-record/61090/

moll is pondering. I wonder if that also means that it’s the month with the fastest biosphere growth on record. Forests are benefitting greatly all around the world from this increased atmosperic CO2 and temperature. And the fastest biosphere growth is always in July. Ditto plankton in the ocean.

I chased through the report and don’t see a mention of NPP. Perhaps it’s available elsewhere.

Smiles and shakes head in disbelief.

PermeateFree said:

Smiles and shakes head in disbelief.

Thank you.

“Always look on the bright side of death! Just before you draw your terminal breath.” From Life of Brian.

Latest forest growth data on the old website from NASA is still Sep 2016. Keeping looking.

https://doi.org/10.1038/nclimate3004

open with sc-hub

Global environmental change is rapidly altering the dynamics
of terrestrial vegetation, with consequencesfor thefunctioning
of the Earth system and provision of ecosystem services1,2.
Yet how global vegetation is responding to the changing
environment is not well established. Here we use three
long-term satellite leaf area index (LAI) records and ten global
ecosystem models to investigate four key drivers of LAI trends
during 1982–2009. We show a persistent and widespread
increase of growing season integrated LAI (greening) over
25% to 50% of the global vegetated area, whereas less
than 4% of the globe shows decreasing LAI (browning).
Factorial simulations with multiple global ecosystem models
suggest that CO2 fertilization eects explain 70% of the
observed greening trend, followed by nitrogen deposition
(9%), climate change (8%) and land cover change (LCC) (4%).
CO2 fertilization eects explain most of the greening trends
in the tropics, whereas climate change resulted in greening of
the high latitudes and the Tibetan Plateau. LCC contributed
most to the regional greening observed in southeast China and
the eastern United States. The regional eects of unexplained
factors suggest that the next generation of ecosystem models
will need to explore the impacts of forest demography,
dierences in regional management intensities for cropland
andpastures, and other emergingproductivity constraints such
as phosphorus availability.

JudgeMental said:

https://doi.org/10.1038/nclimate3004

open with sc-hub

Global environmental change is rapidly altering the dynamics
of terrestrial vegetation, with consequencesfor thefunctioning
of the Earth system and provision of ecosystem services1,2.
Yet how global vegetation is responding to the changing
environment is not well established. Here we use three
long-term satellite leaf area index (LAI) records and ten global
ecosystem models to investigate four key drivers of LAI trends
during 1982–2009. We show a persistent and widespread
increase of growing season integrated LAI (greening) over
25% to 50% of the global vegetated area, whereas less
than 4% of the globe shows decreasing LAI (browning).
Factorial simulations with multiple global ecosystem models
suggest that CO2 fertilization eects explain 70% of the
observed greening trend, followed by nitrogen deposition
(9%), climate change (8%) and land cover change (LCC) (4%).
CO2 fertilization eects explain most of the greening trends
in the tropics, whereas climate change resulted in greening of
the high latitudes and the Tibetan Plateau. LCC contributed
most to the regional greening observed in southeast China and
the eastern United States. The regional eects of unexplained
factors suggest that the next generation of ecosystem models
will need to explore the impacts of forest demography,
dierences in regional management intensities for cropland
andpastures, and other emergingproductivity constraints such
as phosphorus availability.

Unfortunately despite the extra uptake of co2, it is not enough and emissions continue to grow resulting in increased global warming.

PermeateFree said:

JudgeMental said:

https://doi.org/10.1038/nclimate3004

open with sc-hub

Global environmental change is rapidly altering the dynamics
of terrestrial vegetation, with consequencesfor thefunctioning
of the Earth system and provision of ecosystem services1,2.
Yet how global vegetation is responding to the changing
environment is not well established. Here we use three
long-term satellite leaf area index (LAI) records and ten global
ecosystem models to investigate four key drivers of LAI trends
during 1982–2009. We show a persistent and widespread
increase of growing season integrated LAI (greening) over
25% to 50% of the global vegetated area, whereas less
than 4% of the globe shows decreasing LAI (browning).
Factorial simulations with multiple global ecosystem models
suggest that CO2 fertilization eects explain 70% of the
observed greening trend, followed by nitrogen deposition
(9%), climate change (8%) and land cover change (LCC) (4%).
CO2 fertilization eects explain most of the greening trends
in the tropics, whereas climate change resulted in greening of
the high latitudes and the Tibetan Plateau. LCC contributed
most to the regional greening observed in southeast China and
the eastern United States. The regional eects of unexplained
factors suggest that the next generation of ecosystem models
will need to explore the impacts of forest demography,
dierences in regional management intensities for cropland
andpastures, and other emergingproductivity constraints such
as phosphorus availability.

Unfortunately despite the extra uptake of co2, it is not enough and emissions continue to grow resulting in increased global warming.

Agree.

> 1982–2009. We show a persistent and widespread
increase of growing season integrated LAI (greening) over
25% to 50% of the global vegetated area, whereas less
than 4% of the globe shows decreasing LAI (browning).

I think that continues all the way to 2016, but need to check that. The 4% goes by the name of “Florida”.

There ought to be a very simple way of measuring global biosphere expansion.

Burning fossil fuels absorbs oxygen.
Plants release oxygen.
The difference is the observed oxygen depletion.

So, taking the rate of fossil fuel burning and subtracting the observed depletion of oxygen gives the biosphere expansion.
This method bypasses the carbon dioxide absorption by the ocean, which has no effect on the result.

Very simple maths.
I have the rate of fossil fuel burning from 1960 to 2017 from http://www.globalcarbonatlas.org/en/CO2-emissions

I could get the observed oxygen depletion from 1990 to 2000 from the third IPCC report figure 3.4. But that’s not a long enough timespan. There’s no oxygen measurement from that Mauna Loa observatory, unfortunately (or is there). That figure title refers to four oxygen concentration monitoring stations: Alert, La Jolla, Cape Grim and Point Barrow.

Chasing up those oxygen monitoring stations leads to https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/scripps-o2-co2-and-apo. There’s a graph from 1989 to 2012 from La Jolla. Better, but I want more recent as well. Also, the hyperlinks lead me in circles.

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Population growth is something which should be addressed.

On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.

Predicition is hard, especially about the future.

MAKE ROOM! MAKE ROOM!
was written in 1966
he pretty much nailed it )-:

PermeateFree said:
Tamb said:
>> Population growth is something which should be addressed.
> On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.
> https://epdf.pub/make-room-make-room.html

mollwollfumble puts it this way. There are three types of countries: underdeveloped countries, developing countries, and degenerating countries.

As for Malthus, I find myself continually amazed that his dire predictions have not come true. I keep the Club of Rome’s “The limits to growth” always within easy reach.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:
Tamb said:
>> Population growth is something which should be addressed.
> On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.
> https://epdf.pub/make-room-make-room.html

mollwollfumble puts it this way. There are three types of countries: underdeveloped countries, developing countries, and degenerating countries.

As for Malthus, I find myself continually amazed that his dire predictions have not come true. I keep the Club of Rome’s “The limits to growth” always within easy reach.

Population size is the elephant in the room and is the underlying force driving the major problems of today. We could do what we are doing now without problem 100 years ago, but since then our population has skyrocketed. It is now no longer sustainable and with developing countries reaching affluence, their growing middle-class is demanding more and more resources. Our current population will exceed 11 billion in less than 100 years and the hundreds of millions currently starving will increase substantially to create even more problems. Things have changed dramatically over the last 60 years and can in no way be compared with an earlier period.

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:
Tamb said:
>> Population growth is something which should be addressed.
> On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.
> https://epdf.pub/make-room-make-room.html

mollwollfumble puts it this way. There are three types of countries: underdeveloped countries, developing countries, and degenerating countries.

As for Malthus, I find myself continually amazed that his dire predictions have not come true. I keep the Club of Rome’s “The limits to growth” always within easy reach.

They just got the timing wrong, that’s all.

As for your three types of country, I disagree.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:
Tamb said:
>> Population growth is something which should be addressed.
> On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.
> https://epdf.pub/make-room-make-room.html

mollwollfumble puts it this way. There are three types of countries: underdeveloped countries, developing countries, and degenerating countries.

As for Malthus, I find myself continually amazed that his dire predictions have not come true. I keep the Club of Rome’s “The limits to growth” always within easy reach.

They just got the timing wrong, that’s all.

As for your three types of country, I disagree.

Club of Rome made a couple of errors. The most serious one being that people would be dying en masse from smog. The second worst one being that it defined “unlimited” mined resourses as being 10 times those known in 1972.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

PermeateFree said:
Tamb said:
>> Population growth is something which should be addressed.
> On the radio heard that children of today will have a lower standard of living than their parents.
> https://epdf.pub/make-room-make-room.html

mollwollfumble puts it this way. There are three types of countries: underdeveloped countries, developing countries, and degenerating countries.

As for Malthus, I find myself continually amazed that his dire predictions have not come true. I keep the Club of Rome’s “The limits to growth” always within easy reach.

They just got the timing wrong, that’s all.

As for your three types of country, I disagree.

Club of Rome made a couple of errors. The most serious one being that people would be dying en masse from smog. The second worst one being that it defined “unlimited” mined resourses as being 10 times those known in 1972.

That doesn’t change the obvious fact that the end result is the same, it’s just the timing that changes.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

They just got the timing wrong, that’s all.

As for your three types of country, I disagree.

Club of Rome made a couple of errors. The most serious one being that people would be dying en masse from smog. The second worst one being that it defined “unlimited” mined resourses as being 10 times those known in 1972.

That doesn’t change the obvious fact that the end result is the same, it’s just the timing that changes.

IMHO end result is economic collapse followed by global war, world population drop by 90% or more, survivors eating all the wildlife.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Club of Rome made a couple of errors. The most serious one being that people would be dying en masse from smog. The second worst one being that it defined “unlimited” mined resourses as being 10 times those known in 1972.

That doesn’t change the obvious fact that the end result is the same, it’s just the timing that changes.

IMHO end result is economic collapse followed by global war, world population drop by 90% or more, survivors eating all the wildlife.

That’s all right then?

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That doesn’t change the obvious fact that the end result is the same, it’s just the timing that changes.

IMHO end result is economic collapse followed by global war, world population drop by 90% or more, survivors eating all the wildlife.

That’s all right then?

No. And i don’t see any way to avoid it.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

IMHO end result is economic collapse followed by global war, world population drop by 90% or more, survivors eating all the wildlife.

That’s all right then?

No. And i don’t see any way to avoid it.

The way to avoid it is:
1) Move towards a stable then slowly declining population as quickly as possible.
2) Recognise future costs in the production of everything to give people an incentive to minimise them.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Club of Rome made a couple of errors. The most serious one being that people would be dying en masse from smog. The second worst one being that it defined “unlimited” mined resourses as being 10 times those known in 1972.

That doesn’t change the obvious fact that the end result is the same, it’s just the timing that changes.

IMHO end result is economic collapse followed by global war, world population drop by 90% or more, survivors eating all the wildlife.

survivors eating all the surviving wildlife.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s all right then?

No. And i don’t see any way to avoid it.

The way to avoid it is:
1) Move towards a stable then slowly declining population as quickly as possible.
2) Recognise future costs in the production of everything to give people an incentive to minimise them.

> 1) Move towards a stable then slowly declining population as quickly as possible.

East Timor is one of the worst offenders, average of 5.3 children per woman. So you recommend invading it? And bombing Nigera perhaps, 5.4 children per woman? Starting WW3 would be “as quickly as possible”. I’d say not. But Timor-Leste does need urgent attention.

I agree with moving towards a stable population. Each country has been following the fertility path of fall-overshoot-and-rise. It seems to be the standard pattern in peacetime. Self-levelling. The USA, the world leader in population control, has even gone fall-overshoot-rise-overshoot-fall, with the last fall possibly triggered by the sub-prime mortgage disaster.

India has been doing remarkably well in the past 20 years, and Pakistan is following suit. China, Russia, Europe, Australia have all reached or passed maximum overshoot.

Overpopulation is under control. The world economy is not.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

No. And i don’t see any way to avoid it.

The way to avoid it is:
1) Move towards a stable then slowly declining population as quickly as possible.
2) Recognise future costs in the production of everything to give people an incentive to minimise them.

> 1) Move towards a stable then slowly declining population as quickly as possible.

East Timor is one of the worst offenders, average of 5.3 children per woman. So you recommend invading it? And bombing Nigera perhaps, 5.4 children per woman? Starting WW3 would be “as quickly as possible”. I’d say not. But Timor-Leste does need urgent attention.

I agree with moving towards a stable population. Each country has been following the fertility path of fall-overshoot-and-rise. It seems to be the standard pattern in peacetime. Self-levelling. The USA, the world leader in population control, has even gone fall-overshoot-rise-overshoot-fall, with the last fall possibly triggered by the sub-prime mortgage disaster.

India has been doing remarkably well in the past 20 years, and Pakistan is following suit. China, Russia, Europe, Australia have all reached or passed maximum overshoot.

Overpopulation is under control. The world economy is not.

If you think overpopulation is under control why do you want to invade E Timor?

When I say “as quickly as possible” I mean as quickly as possible consistent with other objectives, one of which is maximising the quality of life for everyone in the short term, consistent with the long term objectives.