Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

Yes.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

Hum. Better start by looking up the definition of “state of matter”. Going right back to basics.

Solid – atoms mostly in fixed orientation
Liquid – atoms, incompressible but no fixed location
Gas – atoms compressible no fixed location
Plssma – atoms but contains a significant number of ions
Degenerate matter – nuclei with delocalised electrons
Neutronium – largely composed of neutrons, no nuclei
Quark matter – largely composed of quarks not bound into neutrons
Glueball – largely composed of gluons, not even quarks

Then there are intermediate states between those, such as luquid crystal, and other states of matter described by other properties such as zero viscosity, zero resistance, constant particle velocity and suchlike.

The singularity at the centre of black holes (and hypothetical cosmic strings and white holes) doesn’t fit anywhere in the above scheme. It has infinite density. Is it already a recognised state of matter? Not on wikipedia. It should be there as a recognised state of matter.

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

Hum. Better start by looking up the definition of “state of matter”. Going right back to basics.

Solid – atoms mostly in fixed orientation
Liquid – atoms, incompressible but no fixed location
Gas – atoms compressible no fixed location
Plssma – atoms but contains a significant number of ions
Degenerate matter – nuclei with delocalised electrons
Neutronium – largely composed of neutrons, no nuclei
Quark matter – largely composed of quarks not bound into neutrons
Glueball – largely composed of gluons, not even quarks

Then there are intermediate states between those, such as luquid crystal, and other states of matter described by other properties such as zero viscosity, zero resistance, constant particle velocity and suchlike.

The singularity at the centre of black holes (and hypothetical cosmic strings and white holes) doesn’t fit anywhere in the above scheme. It has infinite density. Is it already a recognised state of matter? Not on wikipedia. It should be there as a recognised state of matter.

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

So wikipedia list of states of matter is missing at least four types:
Singularity, dark matter, quark matter, glueball.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QCD_matter

Quark matter or QCD matter (quantum chromodynamic) refers to any of a number of phases of matter whose degrees of freedom include quarks and gluons. These phases occur at extremely high temperatures and/or densities, and some of them are still only theoretical as they require conditions so extreme that they can not be produced in any laboratory, especially not as equilibrium conditions. Under these extreme conditions, the familiar structure of matter, where the basic constituents are nuclei (consisting of nucleons which are bound states of quarks) and electrons, is disrupted. In quark matter it is more appropriate to treat the quarks themselves as the basic degrees of freedom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glueball

In particle physics, a glueball (also gluonium, gluon-ball) is a hypothetical composite particle. It consists solely of gluon particles, without valence quarks. Such a state is possible because gluons carry color charge and experience the strong interaction between themselves. Glueballs are extremely difficult to identify in particle accelerators, because they mix with ordinary meson states.

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

JudgeMental said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QCD_matter

Quark matter or QCD matter (quantum chromodynamic) refers to any of a number of phases of matter whose degrees of freedom include quarks and gluons. These phases occur at extremely high temperatures and/or densities, and some of them are still only theoretical as they require conditions so extreme that they can not be produced in any laboratory, especially not as equilibrium conditions. Under these extreme conditions, the familiar structure of matter, where the basic constituents are nuclei (consisting of nucleons which are bound states of quarks) and electrons, is disrupted. In quark matter it is more appropriate to treat the quarks themselves as the basic degrees of freedom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glueball

In particle physics, a glueball (also gluonium, gluon-ball) is a hypothetical composite particle. It consists solely of gluon particles, without valence quarks. Such a state is possible because gluons carry color charge and experience the strong interaction between themselves. Glueballs are extremely difficult to identify in particle accelerators, because they mix with ordinary meson states.

Yes. Both are missing from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_of_matter

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

Hum. Better start by looking up the definition of “state of matter”. Going right back to basics.

Solid – atoms mostly in fixed orientation
Liquid – atoms, incompressible but no fixed location
Gas – atoms compressible no fixed location
Plssma – atoms but contains a significant number of ions
Degenerate matter – nuclei with delocalised electrons
Neutronium – largely composed of neutrons, no nuclei
Quark matter – largely composed of quarks not bound into neutrons
Glueball – largely composed of gluons, not even quarks

Then there are intermediate states between those, such as luquid crystal, and other states of matter described by other properties such as zero viscosity, zero resistance, constant particle velocity and suchlike.

The singularity at the centre of black holes (and hypothetical cosmic strings and white holes) doesn’t fit anywhere in the above scheme. It has infinite density. Is it already a recognised state of matter? Not on wikipedia. It should be there as a recognised state of matter.

Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?
Whatever is inside a black hole:
1) It doesn’t have zero volume
2) It doesn’t have infinite density
3) It is different to stuff outside a black hole, so it is a different state of matter

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

I don’t see how it behaves as a gas, but certainly it behaves differently to non-dark matter, so it is a different state of matter (unless you say it isn’t matter at all).

mollwollfumble said:

JudgeMental said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QCD_matter

Quark matter or QCD matter (quantum chromodynamic) refers to any of a number of phases of matter whose degrees of freedom include quarks and gluons. These phases occur at extremely high temperatures and/or densities, and some of them are still only theoretical as they require conditions so extreme that they can not be produced in any laboratory, especially not as equilibrium conditions. Under these extreme conditions, the familiar structure of matter, where the basic constituents are nuclei (consisting of nucleons which are bound states of quarks) and electrons, is disrupted. In quark matter it is more appropriate to treat the quarks themselves as the basic degrees of freedom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glueball

In particle physics, a glueball (also gluonium, gluon-ball) is a hypothetical composite particle. It consists solely of gluon particles, without valence quarks. Such a state is possible because gluons carry color charge and experience the strong interaction between themselves. Glueballs are extremely difficult to identify in particle accelerators, because they mix with ordinary meson states.

Yes. Both are missing from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_of_matter

maybe because they are hypothetical.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

Dunno. B.C. was fond of that view as well.

Ogmog said:

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

Ogmog said:

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

Maybe because it would still be “Hot” and so not be “Dark”?

mollwollfumble said:

Ogmog said:

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

we don’t actually know what is at the centre of a BH because our current theories don’t work.

JudgeMental said:

Ogmog said:

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

Maybe because it would still be “Hot” and so not be “Dark”?

Yes :)

It would be detected by its infrared signature.

Is an old star with many layers in a transitional state.

Are all stars / BHs transitional?

mollwollfumble said:

Ogmog said:

mollwollfumble said:

What is dark matter? Nobody knows. In one sense it behaves as a gas, so it could be classed as a gas. But i don’t think it should, because it isn’t made of atoms. IMHO it deserves to be classed as a different state of matter.

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

Singularities are just what you get when you extend the maths into regions where they no longer apply. They crop up in engineering calculations all over the place, but no engineer treats them as actually representing what matter actually does.

JudgeMental said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ogmog said:

Dum-Me (non scientist)
I’d wondered if “Dark Matter” isn’t just that: Dark Matter
as in ashes & soot left over from explosive interactions between stars & planets.

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

we don’t actually know what is at the centre of a BH because our current theories don’t work.

Exactly.

Some cosmologists seem to dislike saying “we just don’t know”.

Not Patrick Moore though.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

mollwollfumble said:

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

we don’t actually know what is at the centre of a BH because our current theories don’t work.

Exactly.

Some cosmologists seem to dislike saying “we just don’t know”.

Not Patrick Moore though.

Don’t get it. We know that QM and GR are incompatible so current theories don’t work for anything. Nothing special about singularities of infinite density. No more special than infinite conductance (superconductor) or infinite shear (superfluid).

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

we don’t actually know what is at the centre of a BH because our current theories don’t work.

Exactly.

Some cosmologists seem to dislike saying “we just don’t know”.

Not Patrick Moore though.

Don’t get it. We know that QM and GR are incompatible so current theories don’t work for anything. Nothing special about singularities of infinite density. No more special than infinite conductance (superconductor) or infinite shear (superfluid).

No, there is a fundamental difference between some basic property having a value of zero, then defining an inverse of that property with an infinite value, and a basic property having an infinite value to start with.

For matter to have infinite density there must be some mechanism by which something with zero volume interacts with other matter, and there are 1/infinite reasons to think that might occur.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

mollwollfumble said:

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

we don’t actually know what is at the centre of a BH because our current theories don’t work.

Exactly.

Some cosmologists seem to dislike saying “we just don’t know”.

Not Patrick Moore though.

The Venutian Dinosaur Fallacy:

“I can’t see a thing on the surface of Venus. Why not? Because it’s covered with a dense layer of clouds. Well, what are clouds made of? Water, of course. Therefore, Venus must have an awful lot of water on it. Therefore, the surface must be wet. Well, if the surface is wet, it’s probably a swamp. If there’s a swamp, there’s ferns. If there’s ferns, maybe there’s even dinosaurs.”

Premise: “I can’t see a thing.
Conclusion: ergo, there must be dinosaurs.”

~ Dr Carl Sagan

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

mollwollfumble said:

Somebody else want to answer that?

> Why do people talk about singularities as though they were real?

If not real then what are they? Imaginary?

we don’t actually know what is at the centre of a BH because our current theories don’t work.

Exactly.

Some cosmologists seem to dislike saying “we just don’t know”.

Not Patrick Moore though.

Patrick Moore

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

transition said:

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

No, it isn’t just “made up”.

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

No, it isn’t just “made up”.

yeah every construction your mind makes up, whatever representation, are just that, making stuff up

you know, sometimes an idea is worse than none at all, too

you have some representation in your head perhaps of a black bole, an abstraction it must be, of some sort, but it could be substantially incorrect to the point of being worse than you having no notion whatsoever.

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

No, it isn’t just “made up”.

yeah every construction your mind makes up, whatever representation, are just that, making stuff up

you know, sometimes an idea is worse than none at all, too

you have some representation in your head perhaps of a black bole, an abstraction it must be, of some sort, but it could be substantially incorrect to the point of being worse than you having no notion whatsoever.

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

No, it isn’t just “made up”.

yeah every construction your mind makes up, whatever representation, are just that, making stuff up

you know, sometimes an idea is worse than none at all, too

you have some representation in your head perhaps of a black bole, an abstraction it must be, of some sort, but it could be substantially incorrect to the point of being worse than you having no notion whatsoever.

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

yeah every construction your mind makes up, whatever representation, are just that, making stuff up

you know, sometimes an idea is worse than none at all, too

you have some representation in your head perhaps of a black bole, an abstraction it must be, of some sort, but it could be substantially incorrect to the point of being worse than you having no notion whatsoever.

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

that really makes little sense.

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

that really makes little sense.

of course it doesn’t.

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

No, it isn’t just “made up”.

yeah every construction your mind makes up, whatever representation, are just that, making stuff up

you know, sometimes an idea is worse than none at all, too

you have some representation in your head perhaps of a black bole, an abstraction it must be, of some sort, but it could be substantially incorrect to the point of being worse than you having no notion whatsoever.

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

If everything can be explained by God, then why keep us waiting?, is God doing something else, maybe God is still reading the instructions?

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

transition said:

yeah every construction your mind makes up, whatever representation, are just that, making stuff up

you know, sometimes an idea is worse than none at all, too

you have some representation in your head perhaps of a black bole, an abstraction it must be, of some sort, but it could be substantially incorrect to the point of being worse than you having no notion whatsoever.

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

Transition and his weird religious views on science, again.

Religious observation of the universe is very dismissive of facts.

Religion has damaged humanity. Followers have poor observation of the effects they cause to everyone else. People believing in concepts of abstract Gods that don’t exist, monsters, devils and angles that don’t exist. Abstract spaces of heaven and hell that don’t exist, Followers have strange views on sexuality, strange views on biology and gender, strange views on creation, strange views on genetics and science, selective views on human rights, show active torment towards other people , religion have created generations paedophile priests and 100,000 of victims including families, and being emotionally connected to what they believe in while at the same time they emotionally dismiss the people they abuse.

I’d call all of that failed observation, and millions of people being deceived on a massive level with no collective honesty about creations and no willingness to change or reform their behaviours or to comply with state or federal laws on informing on paedophile priests. Its like that all around the world in effected countries, religions of one kind or another passed on by parents, to become a form of a very destructive social meme moving through history, causing damage with every generation.

Why not believe in the universe for what it is and not try to superimpose anything on top of it, its like relgious people do not like the universe and they want to change it into something it isn’t

Do they teach religious people to punish and insult other people?

Religious people have diminished observation on reality caused by their own nonsense theories and trying to believe in things and that don’t exist.

Not very scientific.

Im getting more and more pissed off with religion.

.

.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

JudgeMental said:

except maths and observation gives some credence to them. Why bother with anything under your philosophy?

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

Transition and his weird religious views on science, again.

Religious observation of the universe is very dismissive of facts.

Religion has damaged humanity. Followers have poor observation of the effects they cause to everyone else. People believing in concepts of abstract Gods that don’t exist, monsters, devils and angles that don’t exist. Abstract spaces of heaven and hell that don’t exist, Followers have strange views on sexuality, strange views on biology and gender, strange views on creation, strange views on genetics and science, selective views on human rights, show active torment towards other people , religion have created generations paedophile priests and 100,000 of victims including families, and being emotionally connected to what they believe in while at the same time they emotionally dismiss the people they abuse.

I’d call all of that failed observation, and millions of people being deceived on a massive level with no collective honesty about creations and no willingness to change or reform their behaviours or to comply with state or federal laws on informing on paedophile priests. Its like that all around the world in effected countries, religions of one kind or another passed on by parents, to become a form of a very destructive social meme moving through history, causing damage with every generation.

Why not believe in the universe for what it is and not try to superimpose anything on top of it, its like relgious people do not like the universe and they want to change it into something it isn’t

Do they teach religious people to punish and insult other people?

Religious people have diminished observation on reality caused by their own nonsense theories and trying to believe in things and that don’t exist.

Not very scientific.

Im getting more and more pissed off with religion.

.

.

He didn’t mention religion.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

Transition and his weird religious views on science, again.

Religious observation of the universe is very dismissive of facts.

Religion has damaged humanity. Followers have poor observation of the effects they cause to everyone else. People believing in concepts of abstract Gods that don’t exist, monsters, devils and angles that don’t exist. Abstract spaces of heaven and hell that don’t exist, Followers have strange views on sexuality, strange views on biology and gender, strange views on creation, strange views on genetics and science, selective views on human rights, show active torment towards other people , religion have created generations paedophile priests and 100,000 of victims including families, and being emotionally connected to what they believe in while at the same time they emotionally dismiss the people they abuse.

I’d call all of that failed observation, and millions of people being deceived on a massive level with no collective honesty about creations and no willingness to change or reform their behaviours or to comply with state or federal laws on informing on paedophile priests. Its like that all around the world in effected countries, religions of one kind or another passed on by parents, to become a form of a very destructive social meme moving through history, causing damage with every generation.

Why not believe in the universe for what it is and not try to superimpose anything on top of it, its like relgious people do not like the universe and they want to change it into something it isn’t

Do they teach religious people to punish and insult other people?

Religious people have diminished observation on reality caused by their own nonsense theories and trying to believe in things and that don’t exist.

Not very scientific.

Im getting more and more pissed off with religion.

.

.

He didn’t mention religion.

Yes he did.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

it’s not philosophy, I was thinking about larry, my pet dog, speculated that no concept of a black hole likely ever eventuated from the work of his canine brain, and that consequently on the subject of black holes he could be less wrong than you, I, or neutrino.

Transition and his weird religious views on science, again.

Religious observation of the universe is very dismissive of facts.

Religion has damaged humanity. Followers have poor observation of the effects they cause to everyone else. People believing in concepts of abstract Gods that don’t exist, monsters, devils and angles that don’t exist. Abstract spaces of heaven and hell that don’t exist, Followers have strange views on sexuality, strange views on biology and gender, strange views on creation, strange views on genetics and science, selective views on human rights, show active torment towards other people , religion have created generations paedophile priests and 100,000 of victims including families, and being emotionally connected to what they believe in while at the same time they emotionally dismiss the people they abuse.

I’d call all of that failed observation, and millions of people being deceived on a massive level with no collective honesty about creations and no willingness to change or reform their behaviours or to comply with state or federal laws on informing on paedophile priests. Its like that all around the world in effected countries, religions of one kind or another passed on by parents, to become a form of a very destructive social meme moving through history, causing damage with every generation.

Why not believe in the universe for what it is and not try to superimpose anything on top of it, its like relgious people do not like the universe and they want to change it into something it isn’t

Do they teach religious people to punish and insult other people?

Religious people have diminished observation on reality caused by their own nonsense theories and trying to believe in things and that don’t exist.

Not very scientific.

Im getting more and more pissed off with religion.

.

.

He didn’t mention religion.

no I didn’t, I might’ve ventured some tongue-in-cheek metaphysics though, to spook neutrino

only point really was he’s talking about alien physics, stuff he and I can’t experience, and far as I know it doesn’t happen real local, because if it did ones experience of it would be brief, and unrelatable consequently

if he wants to call black hole physics another state of matter, there are no problems with that, it requires some modest license of imagination. No leap.

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Transition and his weird religious views on science, again.

Religious observation of the universe is very dismissive of facts.

Religion has damaged humanity. Followers have poor observation of the effects they cause to everyone else. People believing in concepts of abstract Gods that don’t exist, monsters, devils and angles that don’t exist. Abstract spaces of heaven and hell that don’t exist, Followers have strange views on sexuality, strange views on biology and gender, strange views on creation, strange views on genetics and science, selective views on human rights, show active torment towards other people , religion have created generations paedophile priests and 100,000 of victims including families, and being emotionally connected to what they believe in while at the same time they emotionally dismiss the people they abuse.

I’d call all of that failed observation, and millions of people being deceived on a massive level with no collective honesty about creations and no willingness to change or reform their behaviours or to comply with state or federal laws on informing on paedophile priests. Its like that all around the world in effected countries, religions of one kind or another passed on by parents, to become a form of a very destructive social meme moving through history, causing damage with every generation.

Why not believe in the universe for what it is and not try to superimpose anything on top of it, its like relgious people do not like the universe and they want to change it into something it isn’t

Do they teach religious people to punish and insult other people?

Religious people have diminished observation on reality caused by their own nonsense theories and trying to believe in things and that don’t exist.

Not very scientific.

Im getting more and more pissed off with religion.

.

.

He didn’t mention religion.

Yes he did.

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

He didn’t mention religion.

Yes he did.

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion is made up.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes he did.

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion is made up.

Transition tries to mess with some threads for some reason.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes he did.

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion is made up.

you constantly make stuff up, it’s what minds do

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion is made up.

you constantly make stuff up, it’s what minds do

Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

Story telling which has been going on since the dawn of humanity, even before religion was made up people were making things up and still today even after the Renaissance it still goes on.

Leaders of countries believing in things that don’t exist while humanity suffers climate change from threats to itself while nothing at the same time humanity does nothing about it.

Black hole of politics!

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion is made up.

Transition tries to mess with some threads for some reason.

Expressing an opinion contrary to yours is “messing with threads” now?

Just ignore it if you think it’s a waste of time.

I think transition often comes up with thought provoking stuff.

I will go outside and see if I can rid of some Hawking radiation I have suddenly acquired..

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Religion is made up.

Transition tries to mess with some threads for some reason.

Expressing an opinion contrary to yours is “messing with threads” now?

Just ignore it if you think it’s a waste of time.

I think transition often comes up with thought provoking stuff.

1 it distracts from the science
2 ok
3 yes, he does

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Religion is made up.

you constantly make stuff up, it’s what minds do

Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

Story telling which has been going on since the dawn of humanity, even before religion was made up people were making things up and still today even after the Renaissance it still goes on.

>Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

well, no

but you and I are talking about concepts of things out there, in the universe, not to be confused with the things themselves, out there

and that’s as good as it gets really

is there an alien physics at work in black holes. Yes.

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

you constantly make stuff up, it’s what minds do

Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

Story telling which has been going on since the dawn of humanity, even before religion was made up people were making things up and still today even after the Renaissance it still goes on.

>Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

well, no

but you and I are talking about concepts of things out there, in the universe, not to be confused with the things themselves, out there

and that’s as good as it gets really

is there an alien physics at work in black holes. Yes.

Is the whole universe is alien or just BHs?

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

Story telling which has been going on since the dawn of humanity, even before religion was made up people were making things up and still today even after the Renaissance it still goes on.

>Under your philosophy, The universe is made up too.

well, no

but you and I are talking about concepts of things out there, in the universe, not to be confused with the things themselves, out there

and that’s as good as it gets really

is there an alien physics at work in black holes. Yes.

Is the whole universe is alien or just BHs?

the physics is greatly inferred, starting with there is a physics, referenced from our own local largely, to the extent possible

it doesn’t hurt as a thought experiment to consider more familiar things alien, I might add, even if considering things alien becomes mundane. Done enough, even the torment of contradictions fade.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

To your first question I am going to say no.

A BH is a region that meets certain spacetime criteria. It’s not defined by a particular state of matter

To your second question: dark matter is that entire set of matter in the universe whose presence we infer from various cosmological observation but that appears to interact with the electromagnetic spectrum. It need not be, and probably isn’t, just one kind of thing. At present, the dominant view is that it is not baryonic (that is, it is not made up of matter that has neutrons and protons) but is instead made up of weakly interacting massive particles (or gravitating non-massive particles!): neutrinos, axions, some kind of undiscovered particle, or tiny black holes.

Given that these are going to be individual particles not interacting with each other … it would be weird to term this as a “state of matter” which normally refers to an assemblage with group properties based on their interactions: even plasma or gas has a pressure and frequent collisions.

dv said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is a black hole a different state of matter?

Could dark matter also be a different state of matter?

To your first question I am going to say no.

A BH is a region that meets certain spacetime criteria. It’s not defined by a particular state of matter

To your second question: dark matter is that entire set of matter in the universe whose presence we infer from various cosmological observation but that appears to interact with the electromagnetic spectrum. It need not be, and probably isn’t, just one kind of thing. At present, the dominant view is that it is not baryonic (that is, it is not made up of matter that has neutrons and protons) but is instead made up of weakly interacting massive particles (or gravitating non-massive particles!): neutrinos, axions, some kind of undiscovered particle, or tiny black holes.

Given that these are going to be individual particles not interacting with each other … it would be weird to term this as a “state of matter” which normally refers to an assemblage with group properties based on their interactions: even plasma or gas has a pressure and frequent collisions.

Dark matter has collisions, according to the best available models. So 8 suppose that meams it has a pressure.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

He didn’t mention religion.

Yes he did.

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion a figment of human imagination

Ogmog said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes he did.

Transition said this

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

Religion a figment of human imagination

I don’t remember reading that article, which is a bit of a worry.

It’s very either/orist though, and it doesn’t even mention the ability to communicate complex ideas, which is the only mental ability that we can be sure other animals don’t share (except maybe whales).

Also I don’t see anything in the article that “challenges the popular notion that religion evolved and spread because it promoted social bonding, as has been argued by some anthropologists”. Quite the reverse in fact.

>“Once we realise this omnipresence of the imaginary in the everyday, nothing special is left to explain concerning religion,” he says.

There’s one thing unique to religious and quasi-religious thinking: the insistence that these imaginings are objectively real. This is why I refer to religion as “a betrayal of both the imagination and the intellect.”

In comparison, artists often create imaginary worlds but we take pride in their status as products of our imaginations.

Bubblecar said:

>“Once we realise this omnipresence of the imaginary in the everyday, nothing special is left to explain concerning religion,” he says.

There’s one thing unique to religious and quasi-religious thinking: the insistence that these imaginings are objectively real. This is why I refer to religion as “a betrayal of both the imagination and the intellect.”

In comparison, artists often create imaginary worlds but we take pride in their status as products of our imaginations.

I must say I find it a bit disturbing when some apparently otherwise sane people go on about their conversation with Jesus.

Bubblecar said:

>“Once we realise this omnipresence of the imaginary in the everyday, nothing special is left to explain concerning religion,” he says.

There’s one thing unique to religious and quasi-religious thinking: the insistence that these imaginings are objectively real. This is why I refer to religion as “a betrayal of both the imagination and the intellect.”

In comparison, artists often create imaginary worlds but we take pride in their status as products of our imaginations.

I must say I find it a bit disturbing when some apparently otherwise sane people go on about their conversation with Jesus.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

>“Once we realise this omnipresence of the imaginary in the everyday, nothing special is left to explain concerning religion,” he says.

There’s one thing unique to religious and quasi-religious thinking: the insistence that these imaginings are objectively real. This is why I refer to religion as “a betrayal of both the imagination and the intellect.”

In comparison, artists often create imaginary worlds but we take pride in their status as products of our imaginations.

I must say I find it a bit disturbing when some apparently otherwise sane people go on about their conversation with Jesus.

Maybe they’re talking about Jesus their Mexican gardener.

Bubblecar said:

>“Once we realise this omnipresence of the imaginary in the everyday, nothing special is left to explain concerning religion,” he says.

There’s one thing unique to religious and quasi-religious thinking: the insistence that these imaginings are objectively real. This is why I refer to religion as “a betrayal of both the imagination and the intellect.”

In comparison, artists often create imaginary worlds but we take pride in their status as products of our imaginations.

Nice.

Religion was not only a way of explaining what was unknown at the time,
but also dandy for keeping people in line, in an unenforceable situation.

It was also a means to Identify…

…and Unify the Masses.

Maintaining Control using the Threat of Excommunication…

….Or WORSE!

It was an effective tool to get peasants to work for you,
…by using a Promise of reward in an ‘AfterLife’,

….or alternately, the Threat of ETERNAL Damnation.

I doano…

It took a while to stop ducking the fully expected lightening bolt
when ever I began to first actually enunciate “There IS No God.”
Over time the cringe became a twinge, then even that was gone.

You don’t know just how conditioned you are until you break free.

Looking back I came to recognize how we’d been hoodwinked into
a LIFETIME of chasing some non-existent carrot on a stick, and
how we’d been conditioned to never expect happiness in life, but
it was OK, because IF you did what you were told here, you’d get
your reward, even though there was ABSOLUTELY No Proof that
we ever would, in fact COULD reap any Promised Final Reward.

Those that are still LABORING under the Imperial Conditioning
may feel that that kind of thinking is too horrible to risk, while
those who have broken free of the cage (like Plato’s Cave) are
finally free to experience how liberating it feels to not rollover
on command, or drool whenever someone rings A Church Bell.

That doesn’t mean that a person that no longer depends upon an
Invisible Guy in the Sky watching his every move to do the right
thing, we still live in a society that dictates that we conform in
order to co exist… We still shalt to kill, or steal, or bear false
witness… but we tend to depend more on an Honor System Basis
…and if we can’t manage that, we’re still thankfully accountable
to the prevailing system of secular justice.

Personally, I still think Jesus was a really cool dude, with a lot
of great ideas… “The Golden ‘Do-Unto-Others’ Rule” and “The
Loving Thy Neighbor As You Love Yourself” ones being top-most.

This thread has strayed a bit

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

neutrino derailed his own thread, looking to give his inner voice some authority

Ogmog said:

Religion was not only a way of explaining what was unknown at the time,
but also dandy for keeping people in line, in an unenforceable situation.

It was also a means to Identify…

…and Unify the Masses.

Maintaining Control using the Threat of Excommunication…

….Or WORSE!

It was an effective tool to get peasants to work for you,
…by using a Promise of reward in an ‘AfterLife’,

….or alternately, the Threat of ETERNAL Damnation.

Endless personal inquisitions and human rights abuse towards drunks, homosexuals, adulterers , liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters.

Believing in things that don’t exist is not normal its abnormal, like the mass shooting that just happened again in the US right now as I type this.

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

Yes. For someone so opposed to religion Tau certainly likes bringing it up a lot.

transition said:

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

neutrino derailed his own thread, looking to give his inner voice some authority

I don’t need to assert any authority over anyone, .

I don’t need to prove anything to anyone.

I don’t follow people and I don’t lead people.

I admire deep thinkers of the world,

I learn by validation though science, trusted media.

What I do know about humanity is this.

Religion has damaged humanity and the environment.

Religion has caused millions of deaths

Religion has also:

Has wasted billions of human hours of productive time,

has interfered with human rights,

has corrupted laws of Governments around the world

has interfered with women wanting abortions

has interfered with people wanting euthanasia

has interfered with same sex marriage

has interfered with science and technology.

has interfered with the lives of 100,000 children and their families through sexual abuse caused by priests.

JudgeMental said:

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

Yes. For someone so opposed to religion Tau certainly likes bringing it up a lot.

You must have missed the taunting from Transition.

Yes I’m opposed to religion, in that it causes harm to humanity.

No one has ever measured the damage that religion has caused

Tau certainly likes bringing it up a lot.

This thread started about BHs not religion.

How many religious threads have I started?

I cant see many,

Religion is not healthy

Religion is not cool any more.

If others can keep quiet about it then so will I.

If the thread stayed on topic then I would have as well.

I will go now, listen to some music, smoke pot and become one with the universe for a while

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

It’s headed for hell.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

It’s headed for hell.

Not my fault

Transition derailed the thread with this post and successive ones after that.

From: transition
ID: 1429804
Subject: re: Black hole question

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

===

What is transition saying here?

Black holes are made up or is it science that’s made up?

Attacking science and what we can observe in the universe is unproductive and unethical..

Insulting people and trying to destabilize a thread on a subject he doesn’t like is also unproductive.

I start threads to discover and learn things.

Transition does not have to read my threads or reply to my posts.

He wants to disrupt them and then blame me for that disruption.

That’s typical Troll behaviour: insults, destabilization, causing emotional disturbance

On a black hole thread he doesn’t like?.I like investigating BH’s. So do lots of other people.

I will start another Black Hole thread another day.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

This thread has strayed a bit

It’s headed for hell.

> Not my fault

> Transition derailed the thread with this post and successive ones after that.

From: transition
ID: 1429804
Subject: re: Black hole question

i’d argue if you want it to be

make it up, because even what you know well is made up

===

> What is transition saying here?

It’s called metaphysics, a branch of philosophy, how we know what we know. There’s only so far that i can safely extrapolate beyond the known into the unknown.

> Black holes are made up or is it science that’s made up?

Well, both. Black holes because we don’t know for sure what the state of matter in a black hole is like beneath the event horizon. Is it a portal to another universe, a singularity of infinite density, a ball of superstrings, or a ball of virtual particle-antiparticle pairs. Nobody knows for sure, and there are still a dwindling number of physicists who claim that black holes don’t exist at all, who claim that what is conjectured to be black holes is really a cluster of quark stars orbiting at relativistic speeds.

Science, because no truth in science is ever so fundamental that it can’t be challenged.

> I start threads to discover and learn things.

And we love you for it.

>That’s typical Troll behaviour: insults, destabilization, causing emotional disturbance

I have moments when my sense of adequacy feels challenged too, so you’re not alone, climbing out of the black hole of metaphysical impoverishment.

for those that think stuff is just made up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka9KGqr5Wtw

Does the Higgs-boson exist?