Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

Yes, but think what it has done for mental illness.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

Yes, but think what it has done for mental illness.

Do you mean people with mental illness dealing with monsters and devils, things that dont exist?

Would it be worse for them?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I think religion has improved society, enhanced science and aided understanding of the complexities of nature.

Maybe JM meant you should do more than pat yourself on the back with right on blather?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

Yes, but think what it has done for mental illness.

Created more of it?

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

nah, i don’t appreciate being trolled.

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I think religion has improved society, enhanced science and aided understanding of the complexities of nature.

Maybe JM meant you should do more than pat yourself on the back with right on blather?

Why do you think that?

How about dropping the unprovoked insults?

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

Yes, but think what it has done for mental illness.

Created more of it?

Would people with mental illness find it more distressing?

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

nah, i don’t appreciate being trolled.

You could try dropping the unprovoked insults as well.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Neutrino is just making broad in fact the broadest statements, added a question mark to make it look like a question then waited for support. It’s just an affirmation exercise.

AwesomeO said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Neutrino is just making broad in fact the broadest statements, added a question mark to make it look like a question then waited for support. It’s just an affirmation exercise.

Ignore it then.

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

nah, i don’t appreciate being trolled.

You could try dropping the unprovoked insults as well.

fuck off.

JudgeMental said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

JudgeMental said:

nah, i don’t appreciate being trolled.

You could try dropping the unprovoked insults as well.

fuck off.

Thankyou for your thought provoking contribution to the debate.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Very good point. The concept of “stone idol” goes way back to aboriginal times. And does seem to have had a positive mental effect, sort of like confession.

On the other hand, even back then there were some shamans who manipulated the belief in ghosts for personal gain.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Very good point. The concept of “stone idol” goes way back to aboriginal times. And does seem to have had a positive mental effect, sort of like confession.

On the other hand, even back then there were some shamans who manipulated the belief in ghosts for personal gain.

Sure, but that’s how evolution works, since “fitness” has many different layers (or levels, if you like).

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I think religion has improved society, enhanced science and aided understanding of the complexities of nature.

I agree. It is hard to imagine the development if civilisations without something like religion going on in the background. But over time individual religions have become obsolete and been replaced with something different. I think the organsied great monotheistic religions have reached that point of obsolescence in the modern world and need to be replaced with something else.

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I think religion has improved society, enhanced science and aided understanding of the complexities of nature.

I agree. It is hard to imagine the development if civilisations without something like religion going on in the background. But over time individual religions have become obsolete and been replaced with something different. I think the organsied great monotheistic religions have reached that point of obsolescence in the modern world and need to be replaced with something else.

I agree. With what though?

Sport?

Internet discussion sites?

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

I think religion has improved society, enhanced science and aided understanding of the complexities of nature.

I agree. It is hard to imagine the development if civilisations without something like religion going on in the background. But over time individual religions have become obsolete and been replaced with something different. I think the organsied great monotheistic religions have reached that point of obsolescence in the modern world and need to be replaced with something else.

I agree. With what though?

Sport?

Internet discussion sites?

Morning all.
Pipe dream I know but science would be a good thing.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Very good point. The concept of “stone idol” goes way back to aboriginal times. And does seem to have had a positive mental effect, sort of like confession.

On the other hand, even back then there were some shamans who manipulated the belief in ghosts for personal gain.

Sure, but that’s how evolution works, since “fitness” has many different layers (or levels, if you like).

So does the concept of religion, itself so broadly based to indicate the question was self serving.

Is it individual faith? Or what period of time, or culture, good evidence that the Islamic expansion promoted science, and that the dark ages were not so dark and were lit by religion. Or how about expansion of humanistic thought, slavery largely prevented by the religious and the Royal Navy, but also aided during the earlier mentioned Islamic expansion, though which then and now, not so simple as slavery was a world wide institution and there were different levels of degradation in slavery from chained untermensch to almost regal powers.

None of that complexity is allowed.

TN just saying I don’t believe in god therefore I am smart, hit like if you agree.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

AwesomeO said:

I think religion has improved society, enhanced science and aided understanding of the complexities of nature.

I agree. It is hard to imagine the development if civilisations without something like religion going on in the background. But over time individual religions have become obsolete and been replaced with something different. I think the organsied great monotheistic religions have reached that point of obsolescence in the modern world and need to be replaced with something else.

I agree. With what though?

Sport?

Internet discussion sites?

Good question. I was thinking some kind of humanist philosophy that emphasizes cooperation and civic good deeds.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Disease is also found in all human groups, smallpox for example.

Nazi’s are also found in all human groups, Ill include far right extremists and terrorists in this group all of who have abnormal behaviour.

Humans hating humans is some form of abnormality

We are seeing religious hate groups popping up as well.

All the above comes under human behaviour human psychology.

Bacteria influences our behaviours as well as external influences in the environment.

When human observation becomes obscured by emotions connected to abstract concepts that don’t exist one could argue that these people are impaired.

I think people who believe in things that don’t exist is harmful, and its what these people project onto others is also harmful.

Region is harming humanity.

Failure to observe themselves from a distance.

Failure to see the consequences of their action from a distance and close up.

Look at the way religion interferers with politics nearly all over the world, that is non productive.

All these religious groups with their own agendas.

Religious people with their collective religious concepts that really are only unique to them, no one else can know or share their thoughts about imaginary concepts.

I look at the world I see it for what it is, I don’t need to superimpose anything on it.

Ill stop creating so many religious threads, I don’t know what made me create so many, it was some meme I think I couldn’t get out if it for ages.

Possibly the déjà vu app on my smartphone.

What might be beneficial in some ways in one era can quickly become a liability as civilization progresses. The huge problem with religion is that it imposes an imaginary supernatural realm on the real world, while insisting that realm is actually real.

In the West, religion died out some time ago amongst the people that really matter – those who drive social and cultural progress. It’s just a matter of the rest of society catching up, which they’re now doing quite rapidly.

I don’t agree that religion needs to be replaced by anything else, i.e., anything similar to religion. And nothing else is replacing it, because most people don’t feel any such need.

The needs of our imaginations are easily met by the arts and the entertainment world, in which there’s no fundamental confusion between the imaginary and the objectively real.

Tau.Neutrino said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

I’m sure he will be very grateful.

Amongst creatures that live in tribal groups, especially those creatures that use controlled sounds to communicate complex ideas, evolution of culture interacts with evolution of physical features to ensure the survival of the fittest groups.

It therefore follows that since religion is found in all human groups, it must have been beneficial for their survival.

At least in the past.

Disease is also found in all human groups, smallpox for example.

Nazi’s are also found in all human groups, Ill include far right extremists and terrorists in this group all of who have abnormal behaviour.

Humans hating humans is some form of abnormality

We are seeing religious hate groups popping up as well.

All the above comes under human behaviour human psychology.

Bacteria influences our behaviours as well as external influences in the environment.

When human observation becomes obscured by emotions connected to abstract concepts that don’t exist one could argue that these people are impaired.

I think people who believe in things that don’t exist is harmful, and its what these people project onto others is also harmful.

Region is harming humanity.

Failure to observe themselves from a distance.

Failure to see the consequences of their action from a distance and close up.

Look at the way religion interferers with politics nearly all over the world, that is non productive.

All these religious groups with their own agendas.

Religious people with their collective religious concepts that really are only unique to them, no one else can know or share their thoughts about imaginary concepts.

I look at the world I see it for what it is, I don’t need to superimpose anything on it.

Ill stop creating so many religious threads, I don’t know what made me create so many, it was some meme I think I couldn’t get out if it for ages.

Possibly the déjà vu app on my smartphone.

Was it you that went mad a while ago and was megaposting all sorts of rubbish?

Bubblecar said:

What might be beneficial in some ways in one era can quickly become a liability as civilization progresses. The huge problem with religion is that it imposes an imaginary supernatural realm on the real world, while insisting that realm is actually real.

In the West, religion died out some time ago amongst the people that really matter – those who drive social and cultural progress. It’s just a matter of the rest of society catching up, which they’re now doing quite rapidly.

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

The great paradox with religion, so far as I see it, is that the greatest benefit it can bring is to make people better people in this life. Doing it through the promise of an afterlife is a stroke of genius really. The afterlife is totally made up and unknowable, but it can make people better at living in cooperative societies. This is the constant human struggle for civilisation, we all want the benefits of civilisation, but it means giving up selfishness and being cooperative instead. That selfish urge can be hard to suppress just through reason alone, religion seems well suited to being that instrument.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

What might be beneficial in some ways in one era can quickly become a liability as civilization progresses. The huge problem with religion is that it imposes an imaginary supernatural realm on the real world, while insisting that realm is actually real.

In the West, religion died out some time ago amongst the people that really matter – those who drive social and cultural progress. It’s just a matter of the rest of society catching up, which they’re now doing quite rapidly.

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

Bubblecar said:

I don’t agree that religion needs to be replaced by anything else, i.e., anything similar to religion. And nothing else is replacing it, because most people don’t feel any such need.

The needs of our imaginations are easily met by the arts and the entertainment world, in which there’s no fundamental confusion between the imaginary and the objectively real.

Yes.

party_pants said:

The great paradox with religion, so far as I see it, is that the greatest benefit it can bring is to make people better people in this life. Doing it through the promise of an afterlife is a stroke of genius really. The afterlife is totally made up and unknowable, but it can make people better at living in cooperative societies. This is the constant human struggle for civilisation, we all want the benefits of civilisation, but it means giving up selfishness and being cooperative instead. That selfish urge can be hard to suppress just through reason alone, religion seems well suited to being that instrument.

Societies dominated by religion tend to be authoritarian, not voluntarily co-operative.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

What might be beneficial in some ways in one era can quickly become a liability as civilization progresses. The huge problem with religion is that it imposes an imaginary supernatural realm on the real world, while insisting that realm is actually real.

In the West, religion died out some time ago amongst the people that really matter – those who drive social and cultural progress. It’s just a matter of the rest of society catching up, which they’re now doing quite rapidly.

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I wonder how long it will take humanity to stop thinking about nothing?

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

What might be beneficial in some ways in one era can quickly become a liability as civilization progresses. The huge problem with religion is that it imposes an imaginary supernatural realm on the real world, while insisting that realm is actually real.

In the West, religion died out some time ago amongst the people that really matter – those who drive social and cultural progress. It’s just a matter of the rest of society catching up, which they’re now doing quite rapidly.

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I will look into the validity of those surveys.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

What might be beneficial in some ways in one era can quickly become a liability as civilization progresses. The huge problem with religion is that it imposes an imaginary supernatural realm on the real world, while insisting that realm is actually real.

In the West, religion died out some time ago amongst the people that really matter – those who drive social and cultural progress. It’s just a matter of the rest of society catching up, which they’re now doing quite rapidly.

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I assumed Pentecostals!

It’s my belief that religion everywhere is in decline from most of history when everyone was religious. Of course that may just be because it was only the religious who were organised enough to leave records. It may be that then as now, people were mostly cynical.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I wonder how long it will take humanity to stop thinking about nothing?

Thinking about nothing seems to be part of the human condition. Imagination is both a blessing & a curse.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

There seems to be one religion which is still growing.

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I will look into the validity of those surveys.

>Arabs are increasingly saying they are no longer religious, according to the largest and most in-depth survey undertaken of the Middle East and North Africa.

The finding is one of a number on how Arabs feel about a wide range of issues, from women’s rights and migration to security and sexuality.

More than 25,000 people were interviewed for the survey – for BBC News Arabic by the Arab Barometer research network – across 10 countries and the Palestinian territories between late 2018 and spring 2019.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48703377

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

The great paradox with religion, so far as I see it, is that the greatest benefit it can bring is to make people better people in this life. Doing it through the promise of an afterlife is a stroke of genius really. The afterlife is totally made up and unknowable, but it can make people better at living in cooperative societies. This is the constant human struggle for civilisation, we all want the benefits of civilisation, but it means giving up selfishness and being cooperative instead. That selfish urge can be hard to suppress just through reason alone, religion seems well suited to being that instrument.

Societies dominated by religion tend to be authoritarian, not voluntarily co-operative.

“Co-operative” is just a word I’m using which is the nearest English word to the idea I am trying to convey. In my sense of the word it does necessarily not have to be voluntary. It means people acting in a way that benefits their society rather than simply pleasing themselves without regards to any negative impact upon anyone else. Whether this is willing or unwilling doesn’t really matter.

Perhaps a different word might describe it better, but I don’t think there is one in English yet that conveys exactly this meaning.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I will look into the validity of those surveys.

>Arabs are increasingly saying they are no longer religious, according to the largest and most in-depth survey undertaken of the Middle East and North Africa.

The finding is one of a number on how Arabs feel about a wide range of issues, from women’s rights and migration to security and sexuality.

More than 25,000 people were interviewed for the survey – for BBC News Arabic by the Arab Barometer research network – across 10 countries and the Palestinian territories between late 2018 and spring 2019.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48703377

Very interesting. Thanks.

Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Bubblecar said:

If you’re talking about Islam, the evidence from surveys suggests that even in Arab countries, an increasing number of people are getting tired of religion.

I wonder how long it will take humanity to stop thinking about nothing?

Thinking about nothing seems to be part of the human condition. Imagination is both a blessing & a curse.

Yeah that’s my take on it as well, religion is based on that feeling of wonder and exploration for understand that also took our branch of homo out of the trees.

party_pants said:

The great paradox with religion, so far as I see it, is that the greatest benefit it can bring is to make people better people in this life. Doing it through the promise of an afterlife is a stroke of genius really. The afterlife is totally made up and unknowable, but it can make people better at living in cooperative societies. This is the constant human struggle for civilisation, we all want the benefits of civilisation, but it means giving up selfishness and being cooperative instead. That selfish urge can be hard to suppress just through reason alone, religion seems well suited to being that instrument.

I agree with most of that.

> Doing it through the promise of an afterlife …

That’s only in some religions, not all of them. In the religions of Confucius and the Tao there is no afterlife, no spirits, but in both there is the struggle to be better people.

In primitive religions I’m now looking at the dichotomy between the belief in ghosts and the belief in idols.

Belief in ghosts, spirits, souls, the seven heavens, pointing the bone, seems to be the negative aspect of religion, easily manipulated by the malicious.

Belief in talking to idols, confession, counselling, ministry, seems to be the positive aspect of religion, an aid to mental health.

>it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

maybe nature is indifferent, even brutal, and above you’ve used the term complex to mean wonder, you want some wonder, you enjoy wonder, you’re a wondererer. By sharing your wonders out loud here they gain some legitimacy, or could, you’re reaching into the possibility space of affirmational potentials, a try-and-test effort, not an entirely definable psychological space, and there’s your inner voice, reading this

transition said:

>it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

maybe nature is indifferent, even brutal, and above you’ve used the term complex to mean wonder, you want some wonder, you enjoy wonder, you’re a wondererer. By sharing your wonders out loud here they gain some legitimacy, or could, you’re reaching into the possibility space of affirmational potentials, a try-and-test effort, not an entirely definable psychological space, and there’s your inner voice, reading this

I used the word complexity to mean complexity.

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

>it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

maybe nature is indifferent, even brutal, and above you’ve used the term complex to mean wonder, you want some wonder, you enjoy wonder, you’re a wondererer. By sharing your wonders out loud here they gain some legitimacy, or could, you’re reaching into the possibility space of affirmational potentials, a try-and-test effort, not an entirely definable psychological space, and there’s your inner voice, reading this

I used the word complexity to mean complexity.

How confusing.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

>it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

maybe nature is indifferent, even brutal, and above you’ve used the term complex to mean wonder, you want some wonder, you enjoy wonder, you’re a wondererer. By sharing your wonders out loud here they gain some legitimacy, or could, you’re reaching into the possibility space of affirmational potentials, a try-and-test effort, not an entirely definable psychological space, and there’s your inner voice, reading this

I used the word complexity to mean complexity.

How confusing.

Yes It has confused many.

:)

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

>it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

maybe nature is indifferent, even brutal, and above you’ve used the term complex to mean wonder, you want some wonder, you enjoy wonder, you’re a wondererer. By sharing your wonders out loud here they gain some legitimacy, or could, you’re reaching into the possibility space of affirmational potentials, a try-and-test effort, not an entirely definable psychological space, and there’s your inner voice, reading this

I used the word complexity to mean complexity.

is nature (the complexity you refer) largely indifferent, even brutal?

if you agree, then you may appreciate minds aren’t entirely a reality machine in that they simply generate realities that reflect or accurately represent the workings of nature.

I mean you could internalize survival of the fittest as part of your motivational theory, take a few pithy words strung together, make it sort of a generalized theory, project a little something of Herbert Spencer, despise religion broadly, but really at the end of the day you contribute less (and worse) than the early systems theory that lent to Social Darwinism. You could argue Hitler was religious about survival of the fittest.

you speak of religion as if it was for-sure the main cause of the tragedies of cultural evolution

There are clear differences between normal people (who accept the universe for what it is) and religious people (imaginary concepts that cannot be proven) concerning human behaviours.

Tau.Neutrino said:

There are clear differences between normal people (who accept the universe for what it is) and religious people (imaginary concepts that cannot be proven) concerning human behaviours.

just about everything minds do is imagined

you’ve heard that joke

why are imaginary friends so lucky

because they have real friends

and on the subject of the universe, accepting it for what it is, nobody can really do that, it’s delusion

wonder is a favorable sensation, that makes it attractive, a partial look

transition said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

transition said:

>it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

maybe nature is indifferent, even brutal, and above you’ve used the term complex to mean wonder, you want some wonder, you enjoy wonder, you’re a wondererer. By sharing your wonders out loud here they gain some legitimacy, or could, you’re reaching into the possibility space of affirmational potentials, a try-and-test effort, not an entirely definable psychological space, and there’s your inner voice, reading this

I used the word complexity to mean complexity.

is nature (the complexity you refer) largely indifferent, even brutal?

if you agree, then you may appreciate minds aren’t entirely a reality machine in that they simply generate realities that reflect or accurately represent the workings of nature.

I mean you could internalize survival of the fittest as part of your motivational theory, take a few pithy words strung together, make it sort of a generalized theory, project a little something of Herbert Spencer, despise religion broadly, but really at the end of the day you contribute less (and worse) than the early systems theory that lent to Social Darwinism. You could argue Hitler was religious about survival of the fittest.

you speak of religion as if it was for-sure the main cause of the tragedies of cultural evolution

>>>you speak of religion as if it was for-sure the main cause of the tragedies of cultural evolution

It is one of many

Threats can be environmental or social

Social threats

Religion is a social problem
Alt right extremism gangs nazis etc social problem
Politics has failed on many fronts.
Education has failed on many fronts

Environmental threats

Climate change
Extinction
Deforestation
Atomic wars

There are others.

a perhaps, or maybe not, interesting Q for you neutrino

I mean the thread is in some way about the imaginary friend God, a friend in God

isn’t ones own inner voice in some way an imaginary friend?

I don’t mean it’s not real, I mean it’s not entirely real, not all as it seems

if I viewed the mind from the formalism of present day science, the unexplained would occupy what territory?

so it’s quite possible the unexplained be not granted territory. As the formalism grows, expands, with the authority of science, that otherwise normal territory of the unexplained meets with hostility

anyway, back to the idea of ones inner voice being an imaginary friend

I think the idea is true, not because it appeals to me, but because it’s somewhat unsettling

transition said:

a perhaps, or maybe not, interesting Q for you neutrino

I mean the thread is in some way about the imaginary friend God, a friend in God

isn’t ones own inner voice in some way an imaginary friend?

I don’t mean it’s not real, I mean it’s not entirely real, not all as it seems

if I viewed the mind from the formalism of present day science, the unexplained would occupy what territory?

so it’s quite possible the unexplained be not granted territory. As the formalism grows, expands, with the authority of science, that otherwise normal territory of the unexplained meets with hostility

anyway, back to the idea of ones inner voice being an imaginary friend

I think the idea is true, not because it appeals to me, but because it’s somewhat unsettling

Historically people with imaginary friends usually end up in Psych wards.

Religious people seek to punish others when their ideology is challenged.

They are trapped by poor observation and reasoning.

Imaginary concepts lead to false reality.

I was emotionally damaged as a child by repeated stories read out aloud in Sunday school at church of monsters and devils trying to steal my soul.

I had trouble as a child trying to get to sleep, It interfered with my imagination. Real positive that was.

Then damaged again as a young adult by Scientology which caused financial damage and more negative self reflection

My trust in people has fallen dramatically to nearly zero.

Religious people are on a sinking ship, if you have life boats, use them.

>Historically people with imaginary friends usually end up in Psych wards

I think fairly much everyone has imaginary friends, that it’s normal, a practical necessity of conscious life

transition said:

>Historically people with imaginary friends usually end up in Psych wards

I think fairly much everyone has imaginary friends, that it’s normal, a practical necessity of conscious life

When i spent time in a psych ward, by far the majority of people there were christians. I never did sort out whether that was cause or effect, though.

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

>Historically people with imaginary friends usually end up in Psych wards

I think fairly much everyone has imaginary friends, that it’s normal, a practical necessity of conscious life

When i spent time in a psych ward, by far the majority of people there were christians. I never did sort out whether that was cause or effect, though.

is there a sane, conscious person whose internal voice is not friendly in important ways, and a work largely of imagination

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

>Historically people with imaginary friends usually end up in Psych wards

I think fairly much everyone has imaginary friends, that it’s normal, a practical necessity of conscious life

When i spent time in a psych ward, by far the majority of people there were christians. I never did sort out whether that was cause or effect, though.

is there a sane, conscious person whose internal voice is not friendly in important ways, and a work largely of imagination

People’s consciousness is real. God is purely imaginary, yet claimed to be real.

And I think you’re assuming too much by suggesting that God is necessarily “a friend” of religious believers. For many I suspect he’s more like an angry boss.

Imagine having this installed in your brain, continually telling you what to do.

By removing religion it might be possible to reduce mentally ill who are susceptible to it.

Tens of thousands it seems.

I would like to see a royal commission into religion of the effects it causes to believers and the effects believers cause to non believers and a wider examination of human behaviour and religion in general.

I think the problem with scaring children with monsters, devils and stealing souls is highly unethical and dangerous. the commission can include that as well.

Bubblecar said:

Imagine having this installed in your brain, continually telling you what to do.

Yes, he a believer of the non existent and also some kind of control freak, I would stay away from him.

Another Sith Lord, there’s too many of them now.

Bubblecar said:

Imagine having this installed in your brain, continually telling you what to do.

I’d rather not, if it’s all the same to you.

party_pants said:

“Co-operative” is just a word I’m using which is the nearest English word to the idea I am trying to convey. In my sense of the word it does necessarily not have to be voluntary. It means people acting in a way that benefits their society rather than simply pleasing themselves without regards to any negative impact upon anyone else. Whether this is willing or unwilling doesn’t really matter.

Perhaps a different word might describe it better, but I don’t think there is one in English yet that conveys exactly this meaning.

Altruism?

esselte said:

party_pants said:

“Co-operative” is just a word I’m using which is the nearest English word to the idea I am trying to convey. In my sense of the word it does necessarily not have to be voluntary. It means people acting in a way that benefits their society rather than simply pleasing themselves without regards to any negative impact upon anyone else. Whether this is willing or unwilling doesn’t really matter.

Perhaps a different word might describe it better, but I don’t think there is one in English yet that conveys exactly this meaning.

Altruism?

Not really, that implies a greater degree of voluntaryness (if there is such a word) than cooperation.

Maybe collaboration, coalition… something about acting not for oneself but as part of a group. Whether willing, reluctant or unwilling doesn’t matter. The action does.

I don’t think there is a word that describes this exact thing. Perhaps we need to make up one.

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

Where do they come from, these idiots?

More and more seem to be manufactured each day.

Grrrrrrr…

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

Of course it’s evolution. That’s how we invented guns.

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

It is complutter nonsense of course. But people like this get mainstream air-time to spout such views, that is another problem all of its own.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

It is complutter nonsense of course. But people like this get mainstream air-time to spout such views, that is another problem all of its own.

complutter? that’s a good word.. well done.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

Of course it’s evolution. That’s how we invented guns.

LOL

Bubblecar said:

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

When i spent time in a psych ward, by far the majority of people there were christians. I never did sort out whether that was cause or effect, though.

is there a sane, conscious person whose internal voice is not friendly in important ways, and a work largely of imagination

People’s consciousness is real. God is purely imaginary, yet claimed to be real.

And I think you’re assuming too much by suggesting that God is necessarily “a friend” of religious believers. For many I suspect he’s more like an angry boss.

I didn’t suggest that at all

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

It is complutter nonsense of course. But people like this get mainstream air-time to spout such views, that is another problem all of its own.

complutter? that’s a good word.. well done.

Using this new word you can save 2 syllables.

party_pants said:

Arts said:

party_pants said:

It is complutter nonsense of course. But people like this get mainstream air-time to spout such views, that is another problem all of its own.

complutter? that’s a good word.. well done.

Using this new word you can save 2 syllables.

Complutterly good!

Bubblecar said:

American Christian crusader blames mass shootings on the teaching of evolution:

Evolution, not inadequate gun controls, blamed for mass shootings

THERE was another mass shooting in the US on Saturday, one which left seven people dead and 22 injured in Odessa, Texas.

This prompted Tony Perkins, above, head of the Family Research Council and a former police officer, to veer of from his off from his favourite topic – demonising gays – to tell Fox News that the teaching of evolution was was one of the reasons people went on shooting sprees.

“We’ve taught our kids they come about through chance through primordial slime and then we’re surprised they treat their fellow Americans like dirt!”

He complained that children are not being taught that they are:

“Created in the image of God. We’ve driving religion from our public life and we’re shocked that we no longer have morality and we no longer value human life.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreethinker/2019/09/evolution-not-inadequate-gun-controls-blamed-for-mass-shootings/

That reinforces my observation that religious people cannot observe reality properly because their religious ideology obscures their reasoning of ethics and logic.

Their logic and ethics become corrupted distorted.

Religion is blind to itself, these people have distanced themselves from Nature that they cannot see it for what it is

I think most of them are beyond help they are too stubborn with closed minds that are no longer open or broad enough.

Value of human life can be taught in schools without any religious fog.

transition said:

Bubblecar said:

transition said:

is there a sane, conscious person whose internal voice is not friendly in important ways, and a work largely of imagination

People’s consciousness is real. God is purely imaginary, yet claimed to be real.

And I think you’re assuming too much by suggesting that God is necessarily “a friend” of religious believers. For many I suspect he’s more like an angry boss.

I didn’t suggest that at all

I was exploring the idea of a persons inner voice being an imaginary friend(expression of), whether it qualifies

My view is it does qualify, not only does it qualify but it is how or very much central to the business of imaginary friends and the conscious social mind more broadly, the conjuring if you will

there is too the business of hijacking, or ideological hijacking, but first I think some study of, a softer friendlier angle perhaps on imaginary friends is probably useful

Religion is/was an aid to the development of humanity. It provided a supported and safe place for the leaders to study and acquire knowledge regardless of the size of the community. The Shaman or Medicine Man held the secrets of herbs and healing and was generally the most educated. Larger communities created larger religious orders providing safety and security for Monks and Scribes to do their work, educate others, record knowledge, etc. The important thing was that the community believed, valued and supported these people/institutions.

PermeateFree said:

Religion is/was an aid to the development of humanity. It provided a supported and safe place for the leaders to study and acquire knowledge regardless of the size of the community. The Shaman or Medicine Man held the secrets of herbs and healing and was generally the most educated. Larger communities created larger religious orders providing safety and security for Monks and Scribes to do their work, educate others, record knowledge, etc. The important thing was that the community believed, valued and supported these people/institutions.

They also burnt people at the stake for disagreeing with them.

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Religion is/was an aid to the development of humanity. It provided a supported and safe place for the leaders to study and acquire knowledge regardless of the size of the community. The Shaman or Medicine Man held the secrets of herbs and healing and was generally the most educated. Larger communities created larger religious orders providing safety and security for Monks and Scribes to do their work, educate others, record knowledge, etc. The important thing was that the community believed, valued and supported these people/institutions.

They also burnt people at the stake for disagreeing with them.

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Religion is/was an aid to the development of humanity. It provided a supported and safe place for the leaders to study and acquire knowledge regardless of the size of the community. The Shaman or Medicine Man held the secrets of herbs and healing and was generally the most educated. Larger communities created larger religious orders providing safety and security for Monks and Scribes to do their work, educate others, record knowledge, etc. The important thing was that the community believed, valued and supported these people/institutions.

They also burnt people at the stake for disagreeing with them.

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

True. During the European Dark Ages it was the monasteries who kept learning alive.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Religion is/was an aid to the development of humanity. It provided a supported and safe place for the leaders to study and acquire knowledge regardless of the size of the community. The Shaman or Medicine Man held the secrets of herbs and healing and was generally the most educated. Larger communities created larger religious orders providing safety and security for Monks and Scribes to do their work, educate others, record knowledge, etc. The important thing was that the community believed, valued and supported these people/institutions.

They also burnt people at the stake for disagreeing with them.

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

Yes religions have shown us a few things

That its ok to question things.

It has helped shape our view of consciousness.

It has shown that there is both good and bad traits in groups.

It has helped to develop story telling.

It has helped to control people and later it helped to define law.

It helps the needy with charity, Charity can also be done without religion.

It has helped science and also hindered it.

It has helped with ethics with the use of proverbs, it it also contains contraindications and other human rights violations.

It has helped with bringing people together to a Sunday afternoon or morning chat after service.

There are many ways to look at it, but most of it comes under human behaviour so we can learn more about ourselves.

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

They also burnt people at the stake for disagreeing with them.

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

Yes religions have shown us a few things

That its ok to question things.

It has helped shape our view of consciousness.

It has shown that there is both good and bad traits in groups.

It has helped to develop story telling.

It has helped to control people and later it helped to define law.

It helps the needy with charity, Charity can also be done without religion.

It has helped science and also hindered it.

It has helped with ethics with the use of proverbs, it it also contains contraindications and other human rights violations.

It has helped with bringing people together to a Sunday afternoon or morning chat after service.

There are many ways to look at it, but most of it comes under human behaviour so we can learn more about ourselves.

I feel like you are talking about only one religion.

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

They also burnt people at the stake for disagreeing with them.

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

Yes religions have shown us a few things

That its ok to question things.

It has helped shape our view of consciousness.

It has shown that there is both good and bad traits in groups.

It has helped to develop story telling.

It has helped to control people and later it helped to define law.

It helps the needy with charity, Charity can also be done without religion.

It has helped science and also hindered it.

It has helped with ethics with the use of proverbs, it it also contains contraindications and other human rights violations.

It has helped with bringing people together to a Sunday afternoon or morning chat after service.

There are many ways to look at it, but most of it comes under human behaviour so we can learn more about ourselves.

You cannot expect a linear progression to human development. Different times, different cultures, different leaders (kings, etc), even different religious leaders. So at times there will be great advances, and other times it might go backwards. As education spread to the community, it would increase skepticism and rebellion of religion, which is still going on today.

Arts said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

Yes religions have shown us a few things

That its ok to question things.

It has helped shape our view of consciousness.

It has shown that there is both good and bad traits in groups.

It has helped to develop story telling.

It has helped to control people and later it helped to define law.

It helps the needy with charity, Charity can also be done without religion.

It has helped science and also hindered it.

It has helped with ethics with the use of proverbs, it it also contains contraindications and other human rights violations.

It has helped with bringing people together to a Sunday afternoon or morning chat after service.

There are many ways to look at it, but most of it comes under human behaviour so we can learn more about ourselves.

I feel like you are talking about only one religion.

Yes I have been talking mostly about Islam and Christianity.

There are other religions which don’t conflict with peoples rights.

They are other religions which I think are perhaps more destructive.

Scientology is very destructive to humanity.

It seeks to financially exploit people and can break up families because of that financial stress.

It has weird concepts on pharmaceutical medicines which I think is dangerous in a group collective based on pseudoscience..

It is a pyramid money scheme exploiting poor people at the bottom and feeding rich people at the top.

It exists here because of Government corruption.and ignorance.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

PermeateFree said:

For the general advancement of humanity, such incidences are minor occurrences. I am not defending religion, only showing how it assisted in our development.

Yes religions have shown us a few things

That its ok to question things.

It has helped shape our view of consciousness.

It has shown that there is both good and bad traits in groups.

It has helped to develop story telling.

It has helped to control people and later it helped to define law.

It helps the needy with charity, Charity can also be done without religion.

It has helped science and also hindered it.

It has helped with ethics with the use of proverbs, it it also contains contraindications and other human rights violations.

It has helped with bringing people together to a Sunday afternoon or morning chat after service.

There are many ways to look at it, but most of it comes under human behaviour so we can learn more about ourselves.

You cannot expect a linear progression to human development. Different times, different cultures, different leaders (kings, etc), even different religious leaders. So at times there will be great advances, and other times it might go backwards. As education spread to the community, it would increase skepticism and rebellion of religion, which is still going on today.

Yes good point, countries can go and and down the ladder just like individuals do.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Arts said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes religions have shown us a few things

That its ok to question things.

It has helped shape our view of consciousness.

It has shown that there is both good and bad traits in groups.

It has helped to develop story telling.

It has helped to control people and later it helped to define law.

It helps the needy with charity, Charity can also be done without religion.

It has helped science and also hindered it.

It has helped with ethics with the use of proverbs, it it also contains contraindications and other human rights violations.

It has helped with bringing people together to a Sunday afternoon or morning chat after service.

There are many ways to look at it, but most of it comes under human behaviour so we can learn more about ourselves.

I feel like you are talking about only one religion.

Yes I have been talking mostly about Islam and Christianity.

There are other religions which don’t conflict with peoples rights.

They are other religions which I think are perhaps more destructive.

Scientology is very destructive to humanity.

It seeks to financially exploit people and can break up families because of that financial stress.

It has weird concepts on pharmaceutical medicines which I think is dangerous in a group collective based on pseudoscience..

It is a pyramid money scheme exploiting poor people at the bottom and feeding rich people at the top.

It exists here because of Government corruption.and ignorance.

I wonder if you are confusing some poor religious leaders with the religion itself.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Arts said:

I feel like you are talking about only one religion.

Yes I have been talking mostly about Islam and Christianity.

There are other religions which don’t conflict with peoples rights.

They are other religions which I think are perhaps more destructive.

Scientology is very destructive to humanity.

It seeks to financially exploit people and can break up families because of that financial stress.

It has weird concepts on pharmaceutical medicines which I think is dangerous in a group collective based on pseudoscience..

It is a pyramid money scheme exploiting poor people at the bottom and feeding rich people at the top.

It exists here because of Government corruption.and ignorance.

I wonder if you are confusing some poor religious leaders with the religion itself.

Better to read:
I wonder if you are confusing some poor religious leaders with the actual organisation.

>>>Yes good point, countries can go up and down the ladder just like individuals do.

I’m not confused about Scientology.

I oppose it because I think its destructive.

Tau.Neutrino said:

I’m not confused about Scientology.

I oppose it because I think its destructive.

Is it a religion, a cult, or a devious individuals imagination designed for personal gain.

PermeateFree said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I’m not confused about Scientology.

I oppose it because I think its destructive.

Is it a religion, a cult, or a devious individuals imagination designed for personal gain.

It an organisation of people who define themselves as a religion when its not and they seek to exploit people financially using pseudoscience

All the courses are about detoxification of the mind, using auditing emeters they can say your mind is now clear of engrams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_beliefs_and_practices#Toxins_and_%22Purification%22

But its all made up stuff.

Including the spaceships dropping millions of souls into volcanoes.

do you have any original material, neutrino, anything, i’d accept a stick picture you drew of your pet dog when 5 years old, or even if you got some playdough recently and fashioned something, absolutely anything, the creative effort would impress me

transition said:

do you have any original material, neutrino, anything, i’d accept a stick picture you drew of your pet dog when 5 years old, or even if you got some playdough recently and fashioned something, absolutely anything, the creative effort would impress me

Poetry from 2005

Clouds

As I opened the silence
of privacy and erudition,
words poured forth,
filled my quiet corner of hope.

Possible moments move past me
like a wind that’s not here yet.
I’m waiting for it,
it’s arrival is very late.

Clouds move above me,
they cast shadows over me,
it’s a moment for breathing air.
I thought I remembered something.

Something is troubling me
as I stare into space.
Something about the silence,
the words that poured forth.

It was the shadows of the clouds
and the clouds themselves,
they go by unnoticed.
If only I could remember them all.

transition said:

do you have any original material, neutrino, anything, i’d accept a stick picture you drew of your pet dog when 5 years old, or even if you got some playdough recently and fashioned something, absolutely anything, the creative effort would impress me

Some more poetry from 2005

Egyptian Figures copyright 2005

Thebaic winds brushed against her face
Cerulean sky, utopian authority
Nefertari holds its presence with eternal awe
If it could be this place.

Egyptian figures moving through the sky
Like clouds they know how to fly
There is a feeling here
One knows it is very near.

A glimpse of ethereal colour
Spiritual hues sapphire, red ochre
Amethyst, topaz, viridian, copper
Reflecting from Giza, prismatic mirror.

The souls of the pharaohs forever eternal
Carried by Orion and Sirius stars nocturnal
The valley of the Kings full of hieroglyphs
The valley of the Queens filled high with gifts.

Nefertari swims the ancient waters of the Nile
Looks down over the sphinx that offers a calm denial
Drifting over the temple with the sign of life
Restores the kingdom once more to its day to day strife.

Re the sun god enters into the night
Nut the sky goddess follows him just in sight
With the book of the under world the solar boat moves
Towards a new day Shu and Geb observe day to day rules.

Nefertari sleeps and dreams of light
Isis looks down and sees her so bright
Egyptian figures move through the realm of the dead
They must be careful of the perils that lie ahead.

The book of gates opens to exiled distress
the book of caverns reveals Tufnut a Goddess
Voices of Ba and Ka speak through a crystal place
The souls of the many move towards the afterlife.

Spiritual winds brushed against her face
Unrivalled love contemplative life
The book of the sun warms a new race
If it could be this place.

some visual art

some more visual art

I’m not all gloom and doom.

Tau.Neutrino said:

some more visual art

I like that.

Tau.Neutrino said:

some more visual art

:)

Tau.Neutrino said:

some visual art

psychedelic that, I like’t, annoys my focus some

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

In the previous thread I related how difficult it was to turn my back on religion
That said:
In my late teens I found myself with a lot of time and essentially nothing to fill it

Having gotten tired of people telling me what the bible said (The same 2 dozen
stories we’ve all heard ad nauseam… without the connective tissue that would
possibly make them make sense.

…so I sat down and read the damned thing… :-p

The bible, stripped of it’s religious significance is a very interesting book…
It’s a SURVIVAL MANUAL, Book of LAW, HISTORY/GENEOLOGY Book

HOW-TO Live Together Without KILLING EACH OTHER.
Thou Shalt Not Doubt (your favorite) God’s Existence
Thou Shalt Not Kill Each Other (or you’d be eye-for-an-eyeing each other to death)
SAME: That Shall Not Steal (or the wronged party will stick a shiv in yer sorry ass)
SAME: Thou Shalt Not Fu_k around with yer neighbor’s wife ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
etc etc etc
Also Thou Shalt Not Eat Shell Fish (Out-of-Season) or you’ll get sick and die
Don’t eat pork, or you’ll get Trichinosis
If You’re A Leper – KEEP WALKING TIL YOU CAN’T HEAR The Sound of MY VOICE :-p

Thou Shalt Not Lie with a close relative: or you’re kids’ll look like they were strained thru a sheet
Do lie with a member of your own sex because it results in a non productive union.

Book of Law: It was better to have someone resolve disputes rather than resort to violence.
(OY VE SMEAR! The FIRST Jew Lawyers)

Where we had a Parting of the Way came upon acknowledging that every
civilization had its all-seeing all powerful god: Zeus – Thor – Jehovah etc.
…well… they can’t ALL Be Real…

Once one acknowledges that some gods were made up for whatever reason
it was a short step from: “If SOME Gods were made up… “
to: “WHY NOT ALL Of THEM?”

from there the whole thing collapsed like a house of cards.

Ogmog said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Has religion damaged humanity?

I think religion has damaged humanity, religion has held back science, it has held back peoples understanding of the complexity of nature.

Judgemental said I wasn’t creating enough religious threads so I thought I might start another one.

…

…so I sat down and read the damned thing… :-p

The bible, stripped of it’s religious significance is a very interesting book…
It’s a SURVIVAL MANUAL, Book of LAW, HISTORY/GENEOLOGY Book

…

Where we had a Parting of the Way came upon acknowledging that every
civilization had its all-seeing all powerful god: Zeus – Thor – Jehovah etc.
…well… they can’t ALL Be Real…

Once one acknowledges that some gods were made up for whatever reason
it was a short step from: “If SOME Gods were made up… “
to: “WHY NOT ALL Of THEM?”

from there the whole thing collapsed like a house of cards.

> It’s a SURVIVAL MANUAL, Book of LAW, HISTORY/GENEOLOGY Book

I totally agree with that.

Eg. The law against eating prawns is because they go off very repidly when not refrigerated. Survival manual.

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

Tamb said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Animism as well, ancestor worship and my favourite Cargo or John Frumm worship. Conspiracy theorism I think might be getting close to a religion in some instances, it has a likeness to a belief, sometimes unfounded, it has schisms amongst believes and is driven by a search for reason and a truth unknown to others which they try to proselytise, unbelievers are known as sheeples.

mollwollfumble said:

Tamb said:

mollwollfumble said:

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

Quite animalistic too. Various animals in Hinduism mythology:
AIRAVATA – the elephant (vehicle of Indra)
ACUPARA – the tortoise- on which earth or Prithvi rests
ANTELOPE -vehicle of Vayu and Chandra
ARVA, mythical being half hourse and half bird one of the hourses of the moon
BUFFALO- vehicle of YAMA
CERBURA -the three headed infernal dog of the Krishna legend
CROW- vehicle of Shani
DOG AND HORSE-vehicle of Shiva as Bhairava
GARUDA- the king of bears – half man and half eagle or vulture, vehicle of Vishnu
JAMBAVANT-the king of bears, ally of Rama
KAMADHENU- the cow of plenty
MAKARA or JALAMPA- the mythical sea monster, vehicle of Varuna (god of water)
MOUSE-vehicle of Ganesha
NANDI- the bull-vehicle of Shiva and Parvati
PARAVANI-the peacock, vehicle of Kartikeya
PARROT- vehicle of Kamadeva
SWAN- vehicle of Saraswati and Brahma
TIGER and Lion vehicle of Parvati as Kali and Durga.

mollwollfumble said:

Tamb said:

mollwollfumble said:

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

I think Hindu came from an incorporation into one of many different stories, and in a tightly populated country instead of one deity they incorporated a vast horde and encapsulated each other’s storeys. A similarity between the Greek city states, that pantheon.

mollwollfumble said:

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

Many ancient religions had lots of gods vying for influence. Really just a matter of combining many local regional deities and spirits into a bigger package and giving it a loosely blended narrative. Not very difficult, since none of it has to make much sense.

Bubblecar said:

mollwollfumble said:

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

Many ancient religions had lots of gods vying for influence. Really just a matter of combining many local regional deities and spirits into a bigger package and giving it a loosely blended narrative. Not very difficult, since none of it has to make much sense.

>Not very difficult, since none of it has to make much sense.

not unlike all the laws (of the state, or State) written up don’t entirely determine every element of behavior in advance

AwesomeO said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tamb said:

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

I think Hindu came from an incorporation into one of many different stories, and in a tightly populated country instead of one deity they incorporated a vast horde and encapsulated each other’s storeys. A similarity between the Greek city states, that pantheon.

That makes semse.

I just started reading the Rig Veda, the first Hindu book.

It reads like a collection of drinking songs. Songs invented by soldiers in need of solace between battles.

>>It reads like a collection of drinking songs.

Sounds like a good read.

mollwollfumble said:

AwesomeO said:

mollwollfumble said:

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

I think Hindu came from an incorporation into one of many different stories, and in a tightly populated country instead of one deity they incorporated a vast horde and encapsulated each other’s storeys. A similarity between the Greek city states, that pantheon.

That makes semse.

I just started reading the Rig Veda, the first Hindu book.

It reads like a collection of drinking songs. Songs invented by soldiers in need of solace between battles.

Are they intelligible then?

I thought some of them were so old that the language they were composed in is no longer spoken, and some of them not fully understood.

A bit like us still singing old songs from a pre-Roman language, say Etruscan or something like that.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

OK, but are they really “religions”, or just philosophies?

I don’t have a problem with most of what Jesus is said to have said. I just wish the people who say they follow him would follow what he said.

Peak Warming Man said:

>>It reads like a collection of drinking songs.

Sounds like a good read.

As i read further.

There’s continuity throughout the Rig Veda as though most of the songs were composed by a single person and presented in chronological order. That may be totally wrong, but is how it looks to me on first reading.

It starts with drinking songs by soldiers in peril of their lives, not sure whether they’ll live through the next day. Invoking (inventing?) dieties to help them. Then the soldiers seem to be winning so ask for supernatural help in obtaining booty. Then the soldiers praise those dieties that seem to have helped them win. Then we see the entry of the tools of war into the songs, horses and spears. Then things gradually get more peaceful. Praying that they’re not attacked. Praying for a bountiful harvest. Praying for a successful wedding. That sort of thing.

Also, it starts with a priest not a god, then one god, then invents more and more gods as it goes on.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

So much ‘ummm no’…

mollwollfumble said:

AwesomeO said:

mollwollfumble said:

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

I think Hindu came from an incorporation into one of many different stories, and in a tightly populated country instead of one deity they incorporated a vast horde and encapsulated each other’s storeys. A similarity between the Greek city states, that pantheon.

That makes semse.

I just started reading the Rig Veda, the first Hindu book.

It reads like a collection of drinking songs. Songs invented by soldiers in need of solace between battles.

With the Vedas, who translated it makes a considerable difference.

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

AwesomeO said:

I think Hindu came from an incorporation into one of many different stories, and in a tightly populated country instead of one deity they incorporated a vast horde and encapsulated each other’s storeys. A similarity between the Greek city states, that pantheon.

That makes semse.

I just started reading the Rig Veda, the first Hindu book.

It reads like a collection of drinking songs. Songs invented by soldiers in need of solace between battles.

Are they intelligible then?

I thought some of them were so old that the language they were composed in is no longer spoken, and some of them not fully understood.

A bit like us still singing old songs from a pre-Roman language, say Etruscan or something like that.

Pretty much.

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

That makes semse.

I just started reading the Rig Veda, the first Hindu book.

It reads like a collection of drinking songs. Songs invented by soldiers in need of solace between battles.

Are they intelligible then?

I thought some of them were so old that the language they were composed in is no longer spoken, and some of them not fully understood.

A bit like us still singing old songs from a pre-Roman language, say Etruscan or something like that.

Pretty much.

Even Latin. We know what the words mean but not how to pronounce them.

Tamb said:

Michael V said:

party_pants said:

Are they intelligible then?

I thought some of them were so old that the language they were composed in is no longer spoken, and some of them not fully understood.

A bit like us still singing old songs from a pre-Roman language, say Etruscan or something like that.

Pretty much.

Even Latin. We know what the words mean but not how to pronounce them.

It takes long hours of study even the get Shakespeare in the original pronunciation of the day. Apparently a lot of his bawdy puns make sense only when read this way. For example the word “hour” in his day was pronounced closer to “whore” rather than the modern “ow-a”.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

There are at least three religions i know of that don’t have any gods.

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Buddhism is one. tick.
I’d suggest it is faith rather than religion that does not need a specific god.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/oct/04/faith-religion-social-improvement
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/oct/04/faith-god-social-democracy

Bahá’í Faith Monotheistic religion founded by Bahá’u‘lláh in 1863 in Iran; grew from Bábísm, itself an outgrowth of Shia Islam; sees religions as fundamentally unified, founded by different Manifestations of God; affirms the unity of all people

A good article about the worship and their relationship of the many Egyptian Gods.

>>Ancient Egyptian society placed great emphasis on the polytheistic, highly complex belief in many deities and the myths associated with them. Many of these gods and goddesses had an animal form, as these animals played a crucial role in the everyday lives of Egyptians.

In fact, this pantheon was so complex that it contained more than 1400 deities, with some scholars claiming that this number is even greater.

The Egyptians believed that these deities were present in every part of their life and would influence both nature and the lives of humans. Worship of these gods was an integral part of everyday life and would be carried out both in temples and at home shrines.

Complex rituals and invocations survived in hieroglyphic writing and give us an insight into the very fluid beliefs Egyptians regarding almost every aspect of the world around them. Animals were often mummified as a way of sacrifice and worship, and great emphasis was placed on death, the afterlife, and rebirth.

Animals had a complex role in the religion of Egyptians. Ibises, baboons, crocodiles, scarabs, fish, shrews, and cats were all considered sacred, but sacrificed, nonetheless. Cats especially were considered divine but still strangulated en-masse for mummification. Hundreds of thousands cat mummies were excavated in many tombs. <<

https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends-africa/egyptian-gods-0012511

Tamb said:

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Which 3?

Or should that be witch free?

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

The knowledge of self.

mollwollfumble said:

Tamb said:

mollwollfumble said:

Confucius, Jain and Tao.

Confucius is all about business ethics. How to succeed in business.
Jain has no gods but reveres ancestors, it’s the origin of humanitarianism.
The Tao is a peasants religion, how to be the best you can.

On the topic of the Bible. Don’t know if i’ve said this on the forum before, but if Jesus never existed then the New Testament makes sense as a morality tale. About an individual who sets out to fool others (loaves and fishes, water into wine etc.) and ends up fooling himself, leading to an early and unpleasant end. The moral of the story is: don’t be like Jesus.

Where does Buddhism fit into the scheme of things?

I was watching a buddhist movie this morning. Quite simply, i don’t know. There are supernatural components, but not as strongly supernatural as Christianity. Buddhism’s main message seems to be: life is hard, toughen up and don’t complain about it.

The religion that most mystifies me is Hindu. How did it evolve to be so multitheistic? How did the caste system become part of it? What is its purpose, its reason for existence?

You said it. It revolves around caste.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ethical-wisdom/201402/can-we-keep-the-faith-without-religion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

Although shintoism has forces usually called “gods” in English, they aren’t really like gods in the western sense.

The religion of Gaia is gaining ground among the children of a lesser God.
They worship the earth and the moon and the sun, they are not unlike the Indian shamans.
Their childish religion does no harm so they should be free to practice it.

Peak Warming Man said:

The religion of Gaia is gaining ground among the children of a lesser God.
They worship the earth and the moon and the sun, they are not unlike the Indian shamans.
Their childish religion does no harm so they should be free to practice it.

Freedom of religion or faith implies that.

Peak Warming Man said:

The religion of Gaia is gaining ground among the children of a lesser God.

I think it is falling on deaf ears.

JudgeMental said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The religion of Gaia is gaining ground among the children of a lesser God.

I think it is falling on deaf ears.

Yes, I think Helen Keller was canonised.

Gaia is a dumb concept.

dv said:

Gaia is a dumb concept.

Pigeons are alive and well in WA.

dv said:

Gaia is a dumb concept.

yeah I dunno, wouldn’t make too much out of it, but as a thought it may lend to yielding something of an explanation for apparent negentropy, variously the ordering forces that initiated life, replicators (organic, and whatever predated that), and I assume the same forces are at work today and involved in evolution and sustaining life

i’d yell miracle, but I came down with the last rain really, in the scale of things

The Sihk’s holy book, the Guru Granth Sahib is treated as a living person and has its own room and is carried to a canopy covered “bed” at night.

—

I got in the shit with some of the faithful for questioning the historical validity of Krishna lifting this mountain when I visited their temple near Murwillumbah.

Talk about touchy..

Abbott reckons Australia’s low birth rate is our biggest crisis. What a dipstick!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-14/tony-abbott-warns-extinction-crisis-viktor-orban-hungary/11513458

Tony is a Catholic, so he has a totally distorted unscientific view of the human population and sustainability.

Catholics want to procreate, encourage higher birthrates and overpopulate the world to extinction.

The planet cannot sustain the Catholic, Christian, Islamic religious, vision of over population.

Michael V said:

Abbott reckons Australia’s low birth rate is our biggest crisis. What a dipstick! https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-14/tony-abbott-warns-extinction-crisis-viktor-orban-hungary/11513458

Neutrino said

Tony is a Catholic, so he has a totally distorted unscientific view of the human population and sustainability.

Catholics want to procreate, encourage higher birthrates and overpopulate the world to extinction.

The planet cannot sustain the Catholic, Christian, Islamic religious, vision of over population.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Abbott reckons Australia’s low birth rate is our biggest crisis. What a dipstick!

It’s a bit of distraction tactics.

Blather about how we need more people, and you shift the responsibility for ‘our biggest crisis’ on to the proletariat, who are obviously too dumb and/or selfish to reproduce at the rate deemed necessary.

Much better than talking about that stupid ‘climate change’ thing, which might put certain donors to certain members of certain political parties in a bad light.

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Abbott reckons Australia’s low birth rate is our biggest crisis. What a dipstick!

It’s a bit of distraction tactics.

Blather about how we need more people, and you shift the responsibility for ‘our biggest crisis’ on to the proletariat, who are obviously too dumb and/or selfish to reproduce at the rate deemed necessary.

Much better than talking about that stupid ‘climate change’ thing, which might put certain donors to certain members of certain political parties in a bad light.

Like coal donors?

Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Abbott reckons Australia’s low birth rate is our biggest crisis. What a dipstick!

It’s a bit of distraction tactics.

Blather about how we need more people, and you shift the responsibility for ‘our biggest crisis’ on to the proletariat, who are obviously too dumb and/or selfish to reproduce at the rate deemed necessary.

Much better than talking about that stupid ‘climate change’ thing, which might put certain donors to certain members of certain political parties in a bad light.

Like coal donors?

Here is my list so far

Negative aspects on how religion has damaged humanity

1 Harming children by continued stories at Sunday school / church of monsters, hell, fire, non extant entities, which cause psychological problems in children
2 Which can cause mental illness in many people
3 100,000 children and their families effected by paedophile priests
4 Deceiving people by suggesting that there is a god when there is no proof or evidence of its existence anywhere.
5 Millions of people killed in religious wars
6 Sexism and control of women by religious doctrine
7 Human rights interference in gays and gay marriage
8 Human rights interference with euthanasia
9 Human rights interference with woman and abortion
10 Deceiving people with an afterlife when there is no evidence.
11 Billions of human hours wasted on religious prayers the silent deception
12 Religion has reating interference in science
13 Religion has created dichotomies in the fabric of society around the world (global)
14 Religious politicians interfering with the Law and Ethics
14 Religious freedoms distort the LAW and distort ethics
15 Religious ideologies distort peoples sense of reality
16 Religious people that do not care about the felling and thoughts of non religious people who have been effected by religious interference.
17 Religions that have strange views on sex:
18 strange view on biology,
19 strange views on consciousness,
20 strange views on gender diversity.
21 Religions have distorted views on evolution and creation
22 Honour killings has tormented and murdered lots of innocent gays
23 Has caused mass movement of people
24 Has caused mass detainment of people ie China
25 Religion has caused leaders of countries to be influenced in the course of their office
26 Religions that use deception for finical gain feeding the rich example Scientology
27 Scientology breaks up families when financial stress is put on a spouse
28 Mathematics has shown that you don’t need a creator for a singularity
29 Science sees no evidence of a God

Positive aspects of religion on people

1 Helps comfort people in death
2 Place for people to to meet
3 Place for people to mediate and pray
4 Religions have helped the needy through charity work
5 Place for people to get married
6 offers an alternative to the science view of evolution
7 offers guidance on lifestyle and personal hygiene ethics looking after people in general

Tau.Neutrino said:

Here is my list so far

Negative aspects on how religion has damaged humanity

1 Harming children by continued stories at Sunday school / church of monsters, hell, fire, non extant entities, which cause psychological problems in children
2 Which can cause mental illness in many people
3 100,000 children and their families effected by paedophile priests
4 Deceiving people by suggesting that there is a god when there is no proof or evidence of its existence anywhere.
5 Millions of people killed in religious wars
6 Sexism and control of women by religious doctrine
7 Human rights interference in gays and gay marriage
8 Human rights interference with euthanasia
9 Human rights interference with woman and abortion
10 Deceiving people with an afterlife when there is no evidence.
11 Billions of human hours wasted on religious prayers the silent deception
12 Religion has reating interference in science
13 Religion has created dichotomies in the fabric of society around the world (global)
14 Religious politicians interfering with the Law and Ethics
14 Religious freedoms distort the LAW and distort ethics
15 Religious ideologies distort peoples sense of reality
16 Religious people that do not care about the felling and thoughts of non religious people who have been effected by religious interference.
17 Religions that have strange views on sex:
18 strange view on biology,
19 strange views on consciousness,
20 strange views on gender diversity.
21 Religions have distorted views on evolution and creation
22 Honour killings has tormented and murdered lots of innocent gays
23 Has caused mass movement of people
24 Has caused mass detainment of people ie China
25 Religion has caused leaders of countries to be influenced in the course of their office
26 Religions that use deception for finical gain feeding the rich example Scientology
27 Scientology breaks up families when financial stress is put on a spouse
28 Mathematics has shown that you don’t need a creator for a singularity
29 Science sees no evidence of a God

Positive aspects of religion on people

1 Helps comfort people in death
2 Place for people to to meet
3 Place for people to mediate and pray
4 Religions have helped the needy through charity work
5 Place for people to get married
6 offers an alternative to the science view of evolution
7 offers guidance on lifestyle and personal hygiene ethics looking after people in general

Positive. Singing together is proved to be beneficial. It’s healthy. People singing together end up all having the same heart beat.

Of course people could just join a choir.

Thanks sarahs mum

Positive aspects of religion on people

1 Helps comfort people in death
2 Place for people to to meet
3 Place for people to mediate and pray
4 Religions have helped the needy through charity work
5 Place for people to get married
6 Offers an alternative to the science view of evolution
7 Offers guidance on lifestyle and personal hygiene ethics looking after people in general
8 Singing and choral works organ music, gospel music.

Left one out

Negative aspects on how religion has damaged humanity

1 Harming children by continued stories at Sunday school / church of monsters, hell, fire, non extant entities, which cause psychological problems in children
2 Which can cause mental illness in many people
3 100,000 children and their families effected by paedophile priests
4 Deceiving people by suggesting that there is a god when there is no proof or evidence of its existence anywhere.
5 Millions of people killed in religious wars
6 Sexism and control of women by religious doctrine
7 Human rights interference in gays and gay marriage
8 Human rights interference with euthanasia
9 Human rights interference with woman and abortion
10 Deceiving people with an afterlife when there is no evidence.
11 Billions of human hours wasted on religious prayers the silent deception
12 Religion has created interference in science
13 Religion has created dichotomies in the fabric of society around the world (global)
14 Religious politicians interfering with the Law and Ethics
14 Religious freedoms distort the LAW and distort ethics
15 Religious ideologies distort peoples sense of reality
16 Religious people that do not care about the felling and thoughts of non religious people who have been effected by religious interference.
17 Religions that have strange views on sex:
18 strange view on biology,
19 strange views on consciousness,
20 strange views on gender diversity.
21 Religions have distorted views on evolution and creation
22 Honour killings has tormented and murdered lots of innocent gays
23 Has caused mass movement of people
24 Has caused mass detainment of people ie China
25 Religion has caused leaders of countries to be influenced in the course of their office
26 Religions that use deception for finical gain feeding the rich example Scientology
27 Scientology breaks up families when financial stress is put on a spouse
28 Mathematics has shown that you don’t need a creator for a singularity
29 Science sees no evidence of a God
30 Religions are creating over population by objecting to abortion, telling people to have large families and having procreate agendas, like The Ramsay Centre – For Western Civilisation and Tony Abbott and his low birthrate nonsense, so in a sense this is creating environmental crime by creating an over population model that places un-sustainable stress on the environment in proportion to its population level.

Sorry if all this upsets people, but I have no problem with truth.

…”telling people to have large families and having procreate agendas, like The Ramsay Centre – For Western Civilisation”

ORLY?

AwesomeO said:

…”telling people to have large families and having procreate agendas, like The Ramsay Centre – For Western Civilisation”

ORLY?

Yep. that and keep women in the kitchen so the chaps can watch cricket.

Tau.Neutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

…”telling people to have large families and having procreate agendas, like The Ramsay Centre – For Western Civilisation”

ORLY?

Yep. that and keep women in the kitchen so the chaps can watch cricket.

Anything other than your say so?

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

…”telling people to have large families and having procreate agendas, like The Ramsay Centre – For Western Civilisation”

ORLY?

Yep. that and keep women in the kitchen so the chaps can watch cricket.

Anything other than your say so?

Other people have said so

you can search google.

Tau.Neutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yep. that and keep women in the kitchen so the chaps can watch cricket.

Anything other than your say so?

Other people have said so

you can search google.

Nahh your claim. I have read a lot on the Ramsay centre controversy and none if it about it being religious or having a procreation agenda.

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

Anything other than your say so?

Other people have said so

you can search google.

Nahh your claim. I have read a lot on the Ramsay centre controversy and none if it about it being religious or having a procreation agenda.

The controversy is a front for keeping women in the kitchen, and their procreation agenda, keeping the masses dumbed down and all the rest

The Ramsay centre are spreading their western civilisation crap through funded universities which then fast track any objections by bypassing protocols

like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/24/wollongong-university-intervenes-to-approve-ramsay-centre-western-civilisation-degree

The University of Wollongong has bypassed its own academic senate and greenlit the controversial Ramsay Centre-funded western civilisation degree in a bid to head off a looming court challenge.

On Monday the university announced its top governing body had taken the unusual step of intervening to approve the degree, despite it never being considered by its academic senate.

Ramsay centre needs to be shutdown.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Ramsay centre needs to be shutdown.

I keep reading that as ‘Ramsay St. centre’ and wondering why anyone cares what the cast of Neighbours says.

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Ramsay centre needs to be shutdown.

I keep reading that as ‘Ramsay St. centre’ and wondering why anyone cares what the cast of Neighbours says.

It’s because they have become good friends.

Tau.Neutrino said:

AwesomeO said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Other people have said so

you can search google.

Nahh your claim. I have read a lot on the Ramsay centre controversy and none if it about it being religious or having a procreation agenda.

The controversy is a front for keeping women in the kitchen, and their procreation agenda, keeping the masses dumbed down and all the rest

The Ramsay centre are spreading their western civilisation crap through funded universities which then fast track any objections by bypassing protocols

like this.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/24/wollongong-university-intervenes-to-approve-ramsay-centre-western-civilisation-degree

The University of Wollongong has bypassed its own academic senate and greenlit the controversial Ramsay Centre-funded western civilisation degree in a bid to head off a looming court challenge.

On Monday the university announced its top governing body had taken the unusual step of intervening to approve the degree, despite it never being considered by its academic senate.

Ramsay centre needs to be shutdown.

Oh jeeze…

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Ramsay centre needs to be shutdown.

I keep reading that as ‘Ramsay St. centre’ and wondering why anyone cares what the cast of Neighbours says.

Most members of the Ramsay centre are conservatives and are religious.

Tony Abbott, John Howard et al: