Date: 4/09/2019 15:36:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1431688
Subject: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

Suspected for some time, but now the proof.

>>Archaeologists have made what could be a pivotal discovery in the populating of the Americas , challenging previous dominant theories of how the first people arrived. They have unearthed a series of finds that show that humans inhabited the Americas much earlier than thought, lending credence to the theory that people migrated to the continent not by a land bridge , but by sea. <<

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/first-americans-0012508

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Date: 4/09/2019 15:45:18
From: Michael V
ID: 1431693
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

Interesting, thanks.

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Date: 4/09/2019 15:49:02
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1431695
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

PermeateFree said:


Suspected for some time, but now the proof.

>>Archaeologists have made what could be a pivotal discovery in the populating of the Americas , challenging previous dominant theories of how the first people arrived. They have unearthed a series of finds that show that humans inhabited the Americas much earlier than thought, lending credence to the theory that people migrated to the continent not by a land bridge , but by sea. <<

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/first-americans-0012508

> western stemmed points

That’s pretty conclusive. Definitely pre-Clovis.

> These results “indicate that people repeatedly occupied the Columbia River basin, starting between 16,560 and 15,280 calibrated years before the present”

Too big a range, a full 1,290 years of uncertainty. Can you narrow it down, please.

> The find is thus lending credence to the idea that the first inhabitants of North America arrived by sea .

The exact opposite. This find is a very long way from the sea. It lends credence to the opposite hypothesis, that pre-Clovis people occupied the whole of North America but were completely wiped out by the Clovis people except on the seaboard.

I suspect a political motive here. No-one wants to claim that the ancestors of the present day North American Indians engaged in such wholesale genocidal slaughter.

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Date: 4/09/2019 15:55:30
From: dv
ID: 1431700
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

Seems the evidence in favour of sea-faring is a bit indirect.

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Date: 4/09/2019 15:58:18
From: party_pants
ID: 1431703
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

mollwollfumble said:


PermeateFree said:

Suspected for some time, but now the proof.

>>Archaeologists have made what could be a pivotal discovery in the populating of the Americas , challenging previous dominant theories of how the first people arrived. They have unearthed a series of finds that show that humans inhabited the Americas much earlier than thought, lending credence to the theory that people migrated to the continent not by a land bridge , but by sea. <<

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/first-americans-0012508

> western stemmed points

That’s pretty conclusive. Definitely pre-Clovis.

> These results “indicate that people repeatedly occupied the Columbia River basin, starting between 16,560 and 15,280 calibrated years before the present”

Too big a range, a full 1,290 years of uncertainty. Can you narrow it down, please.

> The find is thus lending credence to the idea that the first inhabitants of North America arrived by sea .

The exact opposite. This find is a very long way from the sea. It lends credence to the opposite hypothesis, that pre-Clovis people occupied the whole of North America but were completely wiped out by the Clovis people except on the seaboard.

I suspect a political motive here. No-one wants to claim that the ancestors of the present day North American Indians engaged in such wholesale genocidal slaughter.

No. The current learning is that the land route via what is today the Bering Sea was blocked by ice and would not support animals or migrating people. Till about 12,500 before present. Any earlier migration would have to have come by sea around the ice. So anything within the 16,500 to 15,500 BP ballpark means sea migration, by about 3000 years.

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Date: 4/09/2019 16:06:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1431705
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

dv said:


Seems the evidence in favour of sea-faring is a bit indirect.

There is more to learn about this and it doesn’t involve the bering straight or sea.

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Date: 4/09/2019 16:19:50
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1431712
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

mollwollfumble said:


PermeateFree said:

Suspected for some time, but now the proof.

>>Archaeologists have made what could be a pivotal discovery in the populating of the Americas , challenging previous dominant theories of how the first people arrived. They have unearthed a series of finds that show that humans inhabited the Americas much earlier than thought, lending credence to the theory that people migrated to the continent not by a land bridge , but by sea. <<

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/first-americans-0012508

> western stemmed points

That’s pretty conclusive. Definitely pre-Clovis.

> These results “indicate that people repeatedly occupied the Columbia River basin, starting between 16,560 and 15,280 calibrated years before the present”

Too big a range, a full 1,290 years of uncertainty. Can you narrow it down, please.

> The find is thus lending credence to the idea that the first inhabitants of North America arrived by sea .

The exact opposite. This find is a very long way from the sea. It lends credence to the opposite hypothesis, that pre-Clovis people occupied the whole of North America but were completely wiped out by the Clovis people except on the seaboard.

I suspect a political motive here. No-one wants to claim that the ancestors of the present day North American Indians engaged in such wholesale genocidal slaughter.

>>Perhaps ironically, the best evidence for a coastal migration might be found inland, as people traveling along the coast would likely have explored rivers and inlets along the way. There is already suggestive evidence of this in central Oregon, where projectiles resembling points found in Japan and on the Korean Peninsula and Russia’s Sakhalin Island have been discovered in a series of caves, along with what is surely the most indelicate evidence of pre-Clovis occupation in North America: fossilized human feces.<<

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2015/01/first-americans/

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Date: 4/09/2019 16:23:06
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1431714
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

Thirteen thousand years ago the northern Channel Islands—then fused into a single island—were separated from the mainland by five miles of open water. Clearly Arlington Springs man and his fellow islanders had boats capable of offshore travel.

Jon Erlandson of the University of Oregon has been excavating sites on these islands for three decades. He hasn’t found anything as old as Arlington Springs man, but he has found strong evidence that people who lived here slightly later, some 12,000 years ago, had a well-developed maritime culture, with points and blades that resemble older tools found on the Japanese islands and elsewhere on the Asian Pacific coast.

Erlandson says that the Channel Island inhabitants might have descended from people who traveled what he calls a kelp highway—a relatively continuous kelp-bed ecosystem flush with fish and marine mammals—from Asia to the Americas, perhaps with a long stopover in Beringia. “We know there were maritime peoples using boats in Japan 25,000 to 30,000 years ago. So I think you can make a logical argument that they may have continued northward, following the Pacific Rim to the Americas.”

Beaches along the Pacific coast still teem with elephant seals and sea lions, and it’s easy to imagine hunters in small boats moving swiftly down the coastline, feasting on the abundant meat. But imagination is no substitute for hard evidence, and as yet there is none. Sea levels are 300 to 400 feet higher than at the end of the last glacial maximum, which means that ancient coastal sites could lie under hundreds of feet of water and miles from the current shoreline.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2015/01/first-americans/

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Date: 4/09/2019 17:35:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1431731
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

dv said:


Seems the evidence in favour of sea-faring is a bit indirect.

I think they are supposed to have navigated along the edge of the north Atlantic icesheet

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Date: 4/09/2019 18:50:56
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1431776
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

Witty Rejoinder said:


dv said:

Seems the evidence in favour of sea-faring is a bit indirect.

I think they are supposed to have navigated along the edge of the north Atlantic icesheet

Whereas it would have been easier to have walked across it. Yes.

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Date: 4/09/2019 18:59:46
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1431781
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

mollwollfumble said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

Seems the evidence in favour of sea-faring is a bit indirect.

I think they are supposed to have navigated along the edge of the north Atlantic icesheet

Whereas it would have been easier to have walked across it. Yes.

You didn’t read it did you? The later Clovis people are thought to have walked across the land bridge that existed during the last ice-age, but there was only ice during the earlier period when the pre-Clovis people arrived. The other alternative is they made balloons from seal skins and floated across.

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Date: 4/09/2019 19:01:45
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1431784
Subject: re: First Americans Arrived by Sea Over 15,000 Years Ago

PermeateFree said:

The other alternative is they made balloons from seal skins and floated across.

I think that would be a bit of a stretch. seal bladders maybe

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