Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

yes

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

Don’t know much but Bing knows a lot.

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

I am well read on these subjects, but no practical experience on any of them. There’s plenty to find on the internet.

T-38 is an old 1960s trainer jet, still in use by the USAF. Although they are recently signed a contract for a more modern replacement.

Hawk 127 is a specifically Australian model of the Hawk T-1 ir Hawk 100 – a 1970s design. Also a trainer aircraft.

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

I am well read on these subjects, but no practical experience on any of them. There’s plenty to find on the internet.

T-38 is an old 1960s trainer jet, still in use by the USAF. Although they are recently signed a contract for a more modern replacement.

Hawk 127 is a specifically Australian model of the Hawk T-1 ir Hawk 100 – a 1970s design. Also a trainer aircraft.

And I think the Talon is/was a trainer also.

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

yes

Good. The T-38 Talon looks so simple, almost small enough to build as a kit plane in a garage?

The Hawk 127 is an old Australian standard. Ideally i want to find someone who has looked into one of the internal equipment bays. Or a photo.

The F-35. How does that differ from the Hawk?

F-35 is three different aircraft all squeezed together into one program to get funding approval. It has been beset with long delays and technical problems, but is finally being built and entering service. It is a “general purpose” attack aircraft rather than a fighter.

mollwollfumble said:

The F-35. How does that differ from the Hawk?

Bit like asking how a 1980s Toyota Corolla differs from a 2010 Ferrari.

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

I am well read on these subjects, but no practical experience on any of them. There’s plenty to find on the internet.

T-38 is an old 1960s trainer jet, still in use by the USAF. Although they are recently signed a contract for a more modern replacement.

Hawk 127 is a specifically Australian model of the Hawk T-1 ir Hawk 100 – a 1970s design. Also a trainer aircraft.

Yeah, Pants is on to it.
The Hawk is an advanced trainer used by a lot of countries, I didn’t know we had Hawks.
The Talon has been around for yonks, basically a trainer but was a useful fighter in it’s day but I doubt it saw much active service.
The F35 is the Joint Strike Fighter, a fifth generation fighter, going into service with most US allied countries in various configurations.

Good. The T-38 Talon looks so simple, almost small enough to build as a kit plane in a garage?

I mean … are you asking about this as a serious project?

The Hawk 127 is an old Australian standard. Ideally i want to find someone who has looked into one of the internal equipment bays. Or a photo.

Good luck.

The F-35. How does that differ from the Hawk?

It’s a much bigger, faster plane.

dv said:

Good. The T-38 Talon looks so simple, almost small enough to build as a kit plane in a garage?

I mean … are you asking about this as a serious project?

The Hawk 127 is an old Australian standard. Ideally i want to find someone who has looked into one of the internal equipment bays. Or a photo.

Good luck.

The F-35. How does that differ from the Hawk?

It’s a much bigger, faster plane.

One is made by Lockheed Martin & the other by BAE

The T-38 was part of the US Air Force’s ‘jets-from-go-to-whoa’ pilot training scheme, and they had quite a number of them. No prop trainers at all in USAF pilot training over a period of years. It was the first supersonic ‘primary’ trainer in the world.They abandoned the all-jet-training idea quite some years back. It was essentially a two-seat trainer variant of the Northrop F-5 fighter, which was designed to a simple, lightweight and easily-maintained fighter for provision to US-friendly countries under the Military Assistance Programme.

F-5s were deployed to Vietnam for trials under the programme name Skoshi Tiger. The USAF decided that F-5s weren’t what they needed themselves, but F-5s were operational with a number of NATO air forces, and also with Indonesia. The Americans did use a few as ‘adversary’ aircraft in combat training, as the F-5’s performance paralleled that of the MiG-21.

dv said:

Good. The T-38 Talon looks so simple, almost small enough to build as a kit plane in a garage?

I mean … are you asking about this as a serious project?

The Hawk 127 is an old Australian standard. Ideally i want to find someone who has looked into one of the internal equipment bays. Or a photo.

Good luck.

The F-35. How does that differ from the Hawk?

It’s a much bigger, faster plane.

The Hawk as a serious project. Not building it, evaluating the design.That project may or may not involve the F35 later. But i’m stuck on how they build to minimise weight.

The T-38 is a flight of fancy. It looks simple from the outside. A bit of sheet metal, decent jet engine, a few mechanical linkages, some simple electronics and two seats looks about all there is to it.

mollwollfumble said:

dv said:

Good. The T-38 Talon looks so simple, almost small enough to build as a kit plane in a garage?

I mean … are you asking about this as a serious project?

The Hawk 127 is an old Australian standard. Ideally i want to find someone who has looked into one of the internal equipment bays. Or a photo.

Good luck.

The F-35. How does that differ from the Hawk?

It’s a much bigger, faster plane.

The Hawk as a serious project. Not building it, evaluating the design.That project may or may not involve the F35 later. But i’m stuck on how they build to minimise weight.

The T-38 is a flight of fancy. It looks simple from the outside. A bit of sheet metal, decent jet engine, a few mechanical linkages, some simple electronics and two seats looks about all there is to it.

Like the F-104 Starfighter.

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

Yep, a shed-load. What did you want to know?

Obviousman said:

mollwollfumble said:

Know anything about any of these three?

T-38 Talon

Hawk 127

F-35

Yep, a shed-load. What did you want to know?

How easy the T-38 Talon would be to make these days?

Hawk 127. Any information whatever on the instrumentation bays, or landing gear, or cockpit pressure or temperature, or air conditioning, or operations such as flying altitude, or operations such as how long after landing before the power is shut off?

F-35. Differences between this and the Hawk 127, as regards instrumentation bays or any other aspect.

Oh – okay, let me see what I can find open source.

With respect to the T-38, do you mean rebuild an exact copy? Or something that looks like it but with modern processes, materials and equipment?

Look at Iran; their new Kowsar; looks terribly like a T-38 (or maybe a twin-seat F-5, as it is meant to be a fighter).

mollwollfumble said:

F-35. Differences between this and the Hawk 127, as regards instrumentation bays or any other aspect.

blink

The only similarity between these two aircraft is that they’re both aircraft.

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

F-35. Differences between this and the Hawk 127, as regards instrumentation bays or any other aspect.

blink

The only similarity between these two aircraft is that they’re both aircraft.

I was taking it to me in generalities or technologies. The Hawk is a 1960s design with the F-35 much more modern, so there will be differences and where bays are located, why they are where they are, what they have, etc.

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

F-35. Differences between this and the Hawk 127, as regards instrumentation bays or any other aspect.

blink

The only similarity between these two aircraft is that they’re both aircraft.

Moll is given to outrageous statements.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Dropbear said:

mollwollfumble said:

F-35. Differences between this and the Hawk 127, as regards instrumentation bays or any other aspect.

blink

The only similarity between these two aircraft is that they’re both aircraft.

Moll is given to outrageous statements.

In fairness, he was asking a question.

The answer to the question was “every fucking thing” but that doesn’t invalidate the question.

ok serious answer

the F-35 is a stealth multi-role fighter that carries it’s weapons in its belly and is a so called “5th generation fighter” along sides the F-22

Dropbear said:

ok serious answer

the F-35 is a stealth multi-role fighter that carries it’s weapons in its belly and is a so called “5th generation fighter” along sides the F-22

That’s why I treated the question seriously. The F-35 has some interesting design features, so i thought i could try to summarise the different design solutions / considerations between a 1960s and a 2000s design.

I did question the T-38 one, though. Could you build it fresh? of course – but you have to get obsolete tooling built, use methods which may even be outlawed these days, etc.

Could you build a ‘replica’ using new methods and avionics? Yep – see my Iran comment.

It all comes down to why? Why would you want to build a 1960s aircraft? Why not refurbish one of the many in storage?

A lot of that information on the Hawk is still not available open source since the aircraft is still in service. You’d have to approach BAe Systems directly.

There is a cool 3D rending you might find useful:

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/hawk-127-2423f600e14f4d3a864de7db4ec34d32