How?

I’ve tried more graphics engines than I can count (and I can count up to 1,000, just kidding, but lots) but still feel as if I’ve only ever been dabbling on the edges of computer graphics.

I find myself insanely jealous of, for example, movie graphics, cartoon animations, 3-D time-dependent science animations, 4-D maths animations. pm2ring’s fractals.

Eg. here’s a copy of my latest 3-D graphics. Nowhere near up to the quality of the above, and I don’t have access to that graphics software any more.

Any ideas?

Cost vs quality?

mollwollfumble said:

How?

I’ve tried more graphics engines than I can count (and I can count up to 1,000, just kidding, but lots) but still feel as if I’ve only ever been dabbling on the edges of computer graphics.

I find myself insanely jealous of, for example, movie graphics, cartoon animations, 3-D time-dependent science animations, 4-D maths animations. pm2ring’s fractals.

Eg. here’s a copy of my latest 3-D graphics. Nowhere near up to the quality of the above, and I don’t have access to that graphics software any more.

Any ideas?

Cost vs quality?

Are you artistically challenged, I am and probably could never do anything great even with the right software

https://www.blender.org/

btm said:

https://www.blender.org/

I haven’t used Blender, and I haven’t read the link below, but if software includes a section entitled “don’t use this software” in its documentation, it must be pretty good:

“After reading George Profenza’s answer I did further research and found Don’t Use Blender! in Blender’s documentation.”

Don’t Use Blender

The Rev Dodgson said:

btm said:

https://www.blender.org/

I haven’t used Blender, and I haven’t read the link below, but if software includes a section entitled “don’t use this software” in its documentation, it must be pretty good:

“After reading George Profenza’s answer I did further research and found Don’t Use Blender! in Blender’s documentation.”

Don’t Use Blender

I bet he blamed Estelle and Frank

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

btm said:

https://www.blender.org/

I haven’t used Blender, and I haven’t read the link below, but if software includes a section entitled “don’t use this software” in its documentation, it must be pretty good:

“After reading George Profenza’s answer I did further research and found Don’t Use Blender! in Blender’s documentation.”

Don’t Use Blender

I bet he blamed Estelle and Frank

I’ll have to research that ref. later :)

Note, i“m not an expert and just going off what I remember from various DVD behind the scenes extra’s and stuff:

Movie, cartoon, and professionally (and semi-professionally) developed computer graphics all go through stages which utilize a number of different software packages. They might start with a simple 3d model created in something as basic as Sketchup , which is then exported to Blender (which will do things like convert the mesh from 3 sided polygons to 4 sided polygons and automatically produce UV maps) which is then exported to Maya for the rigging and animation process, which then gets exported to somewhere else for the lighting… there’s a whole bunch of othersteps I’ve missed in between there too.

There’s a reason the list of computer artists at the end of movies is so long… it takes multiple people to create images of the final quality, each with their own specializations (a concept artist won’t be doing lighting or rigging for example) and particular talents.

The graphics you’ll see in semi-professionally produced science and math videos like you might get from youtube creators is generally made by people who have specialized in being OK at all the different required software packages and who will complete the entire pipeline from Sketchup to Maya (or whatever) themselves. For these people it is basically a full time job maintaining proficiency in each of the different software required, so unlikely that you will ever reach that level unless you are prepared to put 8 hours a day 5 days a week minimum work in to it.

PM2Ring, I presume he is using software which is specifically dedicated to fractals and fractal like things and so is able to internally automate a lot of stuff in to the software because of its narrow focus.

esselte said:

Note, i“m not an expert and just going off what I remember from various DVD behind the scenes extra’s and stuff:

Movie, cartoon, and professionally (and semi-professionally) developed computer graphics all go through stages which utilize a number of different software packages. They might start with a simple 3d model created in something as basic as Sketchup , which is then exported to Blender (which will do things like convert the mesh from 3 sided polygons to 4 sided polygons and automatically produce UV maps) which is then exported to Maya for the rigging and animation process, which then gets exported to somewhere else for the lighting… there’s a whole bunch of othersteps I’ve missed in between there too.

There’s a reason the list of computer artists at the end of movies is so long… it takes multiple people to create images of the final quality, each with their own specializations (a concept artist won’t be doing lighting or rigging for example) and particular talents.

The graphics you’ll see in semi-professionally produced science and math videos like you might get from youtube creators is generally made by people who have specialized in being OK at all the different required software packages and who will complete the entire pipeline from Sketchup to Maya (or whatever) themselves. For these people it is basically a full time job maintaining proficiency in each of the different software required, so unlikely that you will ever reach that level unless you are prepared to put 8 hours a day 5 days a week minimum work in to it.

PM2Ring, I presume he is using software which is specifically dedicated to fractals and fractal like things and so is able to internally automate a lot of stuff in to the software because of its narrow focus.

I’ll see if I can find what software PM2Ring was using.

Or maybe the title of the thread will encourage him to drop in :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

esselte said:

Note, i“m not an expert and just going off what I remember from various DVD behind the scenes extra’s and stuff:

Movie, cartoon, and professionally (and semi-professionally) developed computer graphics all go through stages which utilize a number of different software packages. They might start with a simple 3d model created in something as basic as Sketchup , which is then exported to Blender (which will do things like convert the mesh from 3 sided polygons to 4 sided polygons and automatically produce UV maps) which is then exported to Maya for the rigging and animation process, which then gets exported to somewhere else for the lighting… there’s a whole bunch of othersteps I’ve missed in between there too.

There’s a reason the list of computer artists at the end of movies is so long… it takes multiple people to create images of the final quality, each with their own specializations (a concept artist won’t be doing lighting or rigging for example) and particular talents.

The graphics you’ll see in semi-professionally produced science and math videos like you might get from youtube creators is generally made by people who have specialized in being OK at all the different required software packages and who will complete the entire pipeline from Sketchup to Maya (or whatever) themselves. For these people it is basically a full time job maintaining proficiency in each of the different software required, so unlikely that you will ever reach that level unless you are prepared to put 8 hours a day 5 days a week minimum work in to it.

PM2Ring, I presume he is using software which is specifically dedicated to fractals and fractal like things and so is able to internally automate a lot of stuff in to the software because of its narrow focus.

I’ll see if I can find what software PM2Ring was using.

Or maybe the title of the thread will encourage him to drop in :)

It was PovRay.

Some samples

The Rev Dodgson said:

esselte said:

Note, i“m not an expert and just going off what I remember from various DVD behind the scenes extra’s and stuff:

Movie, cartoon, and professionally (and semi-professionally) developed computer graphics all go through stages which utilize a number of different software packages. They might start with a simple 3d model created in something as basic as Sketchup , which is then exported to Blender (which will do things like convert the mesh from 3 sided polygons to 4 sided polygons and automatically produce UV maps) which is then exported to Maya for the rigging and animation process, which then gets exported to somewhere else for the lighting… there’s a whole bunch of othersteps I’ve missed in between there too.

There’s a reason the list of computer artists at the end of movies is so long… it takes multiple people to create images of the final quality, each with their own specializations (a concept artist won’t be doing lighting or rigging for example) and particular talents.

The graphics you’ll see in semi-professionally produced science and math videos like you might get from youtube creators is generally made by people who have specialized in being OK at all the different required software packages and who will complete the entire pipeline from Sketchup to Maya (or whatever) themselves. For these people it is basically a full time job maintaining proficiency in each of the different software required, so unlikely that you will ever reach that level unless you are prepared to put 8 hours a day 5 days a week minimum work in to it.

PM2Ring, I presume he is using software which is specifically dedicated to fractals and fractal like things and so is able to internally automate a lot of stuff in to the software because of its narrow focus.

I’ll see if I can find what software PM2Ring was using.

Or maybe the title of the thread will encourage him to drop in :)

That’d be nice. Whatever happened to him?

sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

esselte said:

Note, i“m not an expert and just going off what I remember from various DVD behind the scenes extra’s and stuff:

Movie, cartoon, and professionally (and semi-professionally) developed computer graphics all go through stages which utilize a number of different software packages. They might start with a simple 3d model created in something as basic as Sketchup , which is then exported to Blender (which will do things like convert the mesh from 3 sided polygons to 4 sided polygons and automatically produce UV maps) which is then exported to Maya for the rigging and animation process, which then gets exported to somewhere else for the lighting… there’s a whole bunch of othersteps I’ve missed in between there too.

There’s a reason the list of computer artists at the end of movies is so long… it takes multiple people to create images of the final quality, each with their own specializations (a concept artist won’t be doing lighting or rigging for example) and particular talents.

The graphics you’ll see in semi-professionally produced science and math videos like you might get from youtube creators is generally made by people who have specialized in being OK at all the different required software packages and who will complete the entire pipeline from Sketchup to Maya (or whatever) themselves. For these people it is basically a full time job maintaining proficiency in each of the different software required, so unlikely that you will ever reach that level unless you are prepared to put 8 hours a day 5 days a week minimum work in to it.

PM2Ring, I presume he is using software which is specifically dedicated to fractals and fractal like things and so is able to internally automate a lot of stuff in to the software because of its narrow focus.

I’ll see if I can find what software PM2Ring was using.

Or maybe the title of the thread will encourage him to drop in :)

That’d be nice. Whatever happened to him?

got eaten by a shark is what i heard.

sibeen said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I’ll see if I can find what software PM2Ring was using.

Or maybe the title of the thread will encourage him to drop in :)

That’d be nice. Whatever happened to him?

Ate a bad apple.

Possibly not exactly what you’re after but have a look at Renderman
It’s what’s used to create a lot of the high-end animated movies, and is free for personal use,.

Spiny Norman said:

Possibly not exactly what you’re after but have a look at Renderman
It’s what’s used to create a lot of the high-end animated movies, and is free for personal use,.

Ta. I’ll look up blender, povray and renderman.

I have a vague memory of povray somewhere.

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

Possibly not exactly what you’re after but have a look at Renderman
It’s what’s used to create a lot of the high-end animated movies, and is free for personal use,.

Ta. I’ll look up blender, povray and renderman.

I have a vague memory of povray somewhere.

“Official releases of Blender for Microsoft Windows, MacOS and Linux, as well as a port for FreeBSD, are available in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions.”

Oh, that’s marvellous. I didn’t want to have to buy a new Linux or 64 bit computer.

“Support for a variety of geometric primitives, including polygon meshes, fast subdivision surface modeling, Bezier curves, NURBS surfaces, metaballs, icospheres, multi-res digital sculpting (including dynamic topology, maps baking, remeshing, resymetrize, decimation), outline font, and a new n-gon modeling system called B-mesh.”

That’s marvellous, too. I really miss NURBS, used to use them back circa 1990. And outline font looks tempting.

“Keyframed animation tools”

Yes. That’s the easiest type of animation to use.

“Procedural and node-based textures, as well as texture painting,”

Good.

“LBM fluid dynamics”

As an expert in computational fluid dynamics … I’ve never heard of it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_Boltzmann_methods
Yes! I need to know how this works. This is a key technology i’ve missed out on.

Need to install the correct OpenGL version first.
Hmm. How do i know which? Versions 1.4, 2.1 and 3.3 need different versions of Blender. Which depends on graphics card. Um.

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

Possibly not exactly what you’re after but have a look at Renderman
It’s what’s used to create a lot of the high-end animated movies, and is free for personal use,.

Ta. I’ll look up blender, povray and renderman.

I have a vague memory of povray somewhere.

Probably here :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

Possibly not exactly what you’re after but have a look at Renderman
It’s what’s used to create a lot of the high-end animated movies, and is free for personal use,.

Ta. I’ll look up blender, povray and renderman.

I have a vague memory of povray somewhere.

Probably here :)

Yes, i probably tried it without much success.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Spiny Norman said:

Possibly not exactly what you’re after but have a look at Renderman
It’s what’s used to create a lot of the high-end animated movies, and is free for personal use,.

Ta. I’ll look up blender, povray and renderman.

I have a vague memory of povray somewhere.

“Official releases of Blender for Microsoft Windows, MacOS and Linux, as well as a port for FreeBSD, are available in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions.”

Oh, that’s marvellous. I didn’t want to have to buy a new Linux or 64 bit computer.

“Support for a variety of geometric primitives, including polygon meshes, fast subdivision surface modeling, Bezier curves, NURBS surfaces, metaballs, icospheres, multi-res digital sculpting (including dynamic topology, maps baking, remeshing, resymetrize, decimation), outline font, and a new n-gon modeling system called B-mesh.”

That’s marvellous, too. I really miss NURBS, used to use them back circa 1990. And outline font looks tempting.

“Keyframed animation tools”

Yes. That’s the easiest type of animation to use.

“Procedural and node-based textures, as well as texture painting,”

Good.

“LBM fluid dynamics”

As an expert in computational fluid dynamics … I’ve never heard of it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_Boltzmann_methods
Yes! I need to know how this works. This is a key technology i’ve missed out on.

Need to install the correct OpenGL version first.
Hmm. How do i know which? Versions 1.4, 2.1 and 3.3 need different versions of Blender. Which depends on graphics card. Um.

I may just be stuffed.

Blender has a whole heap of minimum requirements, most of which this PC passes easily.

Until we get to “Open GL 2.1 compatible GPU with 512 MB Video RAM”.

I can’t find a GPU on this computer using dxdiag.

When i downloaded and ran “GL view” is said that “Open GL 4.1 is installed” – good. But the render test failed, it just gave a uniform colour not a proper textured surface. with error messages ARB_multitexture not supported and ARB_shader_objects not supported.

Checking web and this is definitely a “no GPU” type error. Web says “try Installing Mesa3D on Windows”. It seems to be something of a pest to install (eg. new releases appear every fortnight, with no clue as to which are stable) and no guarantee of success.

Can I buy a graphics card for this old PC?
8 years old according to the intel chip.
Hmm. Hardware accelerators for GL are …

… What the heck, when I (accidentally) choose “AMD Radeon HD 6450 hardware accelerator” in “GL view” the GL rendering test works perfectly.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

Ta. I’ll look up blender, povray and renderman.

I have a vague memory of povray somewhere.

“Official releases of Blender for Microsoft Windows, MacOS and Linux, as well as a port for FreeBSD, are available in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions.”

Oh, that’s marvellous. I didn’t want to have to buy a new Linux or 64 bit computer.

“Support for a variety of geometric primitives, including polygon meshes, fast subdivision surface modeling, Bezier curves, NURBS surfaces, metaballs, icospheres, multi-res digital sculpting (including dynamic topology, maps baking, remeshing, resymetrize, decimation), outline font, and a new n-gon modeling system called B-mesh.”

That’s marvellous, too. I really miss NURBS, used to use them back circa 1990. And outline font looks tempting.

“Keyframed animation tools”

Yes. That’s the easiest type of animation to use.

“Procedural and node-based textures, as well as texture painting,”

Good.

“LBM fluid dynamics”

As an expert in computational fluid dynamics … I’ve never heard of it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_Boltzmann_methods
Yes! I need to know how this works. This is a key technology i’ve missed out on.

Need to install the correct OpenGL version first.
Hmm. How do i know which? Versions 1.4, 2.1 and 3.3 need different versions of Blender. Which depends on graphics card. Um.

I may just be stuffed.

Blender has a whole heap of minimum requirements, most of which this PC passes easily.

Until we get to “Open GL 2.1 compatible GPU with 512 MB Video RAM”.

I can’t find a GPU on this computer using dxdiag.

When i downloaded and ran “GL view” is said that “Open GL 4.1 is installed” – good. But the render test failed, it just gave a uniform colour not a proper textured surface. with error messages ARB_multitexture not supported and ARB_shader_objects not supported.

Checking web and this is definitely a “no GPU” type error. Web says “try Installing Mesa3D on Windows”. It seems to be something of a pest to install (eg. new releases appear every fortnight, with no clue as to which are stable) and no guarantee of success.

Can I buy a graphics card for this old PC?
8 years old according to the intel chip.
Hmm. Hardware accelerators for GL are …

… What the heck, when I (accidentally) choose “AMD Radeon HD 6450 hardware accelerator” in “GL view” the GL rendering test works perfectly.

Installed Blender 2.80. Click on icon.

“Failed to get …” – nope, fail.

Try compatibility mode options on Blender 2.80 – nope.

Uninstall and install Blender 2.76b.

Runs !

Now what do I do with it?

mollwollfumble said:

Try compatibility mode options on Blender 2.80 – nope.

Uninstall and install Blender 2.76b.

Runs !

Now what do I do with it?

Let us know how you go.

I’m struggling with the mysteries of shear in AS 3600 and AS 5100 at the moment.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Try compatibility mode options on Blender 2.80 – nope.

Uninstall and install Blender 2.76b.

Runs !

Now what do I do with it?

Let us know how you go.

I’m struggling with the mysteries of shear in AS 3600 and AS 5100 at the moment.

I remember knowing stuff out of AS1067 (sunglasses). I don’t need to know that stuff any more. And the Standard for prescription spectacle lenses got changed some years ago to allow more leeway. I was not impressed. For goodness sake. We now have computer aided computation, we should be able to tighten the standards, not make it easier for the offshore slave factories to sell here.