the most recent generation of humans have to live with contradictory aspects of instrumental desires that previous generations perhaps were less acquainted.

an environmental awareness of climate change (responsibility for), and at the same time need be able to enjoy the weather without the constant imposition of politics related. I used weather in that previous sentence to mean internal mental states also, a good part of maintaining healthy attitudes is being able to hold and manage representations internally regard things external, distance in a sense, for the purpose of abstraction really.

so I guess people need willfully detach some from the human social environment (shared worries, and politics) to enjoy the other aspects of the natural world. Consider for a moment it’s possibly more difficult to do this as human populations and their (individual and group) endeavors proliferate.

so there are contradictions, not that there is anything new or necessarily unhealthy about contradictions, anything that thinks bumps into them, because there is no Eden-of-thought.

anyway, to dumb it down, I ask can you get your weather without politics?

the OP heading of course hints at a Cat Stevens song

does (any) nature exist outside the work of human minds, or is everything going to eventually yield to that

I guess good people want to save some nature, that’s the idea, maintain something resembling the recent past set-point on the planet’s thermostat for one. So humanity is sort of hanging on the thermostat in a sense, same of avoiding an ecosystem collapses etc

I envy my nephew who’s fit and adventurous enough to go wandering through the wilderness, far from any signs of human destruction or modfication.

Although he himself had to be airlifted from the Gell River bushfire last year, the result of drier conditions due to climate change.

Here’s some of his snaps from his truncated walk:

https://www.patricktoohey.net/photolalia/gell-river-bushfire.html

I don’t recall the Cat Stevens song (and I have a perhaps irrational dislike of the man).

I’m not convinced that childrens’ weather is so influenced by politics.

Certainly I don’t recall my childhood being so influenced by the politics of the day, which were (contrary to popular belief) a good deal more acrid than those of today.

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t recall the Cat Stevens song (and I have a perhaps irrational dislike of the man).

I’m not convinced that childrens’ weather is so influenced by politics.

Certainly I don’t recall my childhood being so influenced by the politics of the day, which were (contrary to popular belief) a good deal more acrid than those of today.

perhaps closest thing to the threat of global warming etc, back a way, was the potential destruction of war involving nuclear weapons(cold war), as it turns just the damage from the very many tests was not insignificant, so many tests you could ask why so many.

a big difference re global warming is climate is not just an essential part of life, nature, but involves the overall global thermostat

you were most certainly around during the nuclear arms race, so i’d be very surprised if politics wasn’t in the air in some way

“…as it turns just the damage…”

as it turns out…that should read

transition said:

you were most certainly around during the nuclear arms race, so i’d be very surprised if politics wasn’t in the air in some way

That was my point.

It was certainly in the air, but I don’t think it influenced us all that much.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

you were most certainly around during the nuclear arms race, so i’d be very surprised if politics wasn’t in the air in some way

That was my point.

It was certainly in the air, but I don’t think it influenced us all that much.

Brinkmanship was the big worry. One flash & you’re ash.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

you were most certainly around during the nuclear arms race, so i’d be very surprised if politics wasn’t in the air in some way

That was my point.

It was certainly in the air, but I don’t think it influenced us all that much.

Although you probably would have bunked off school for the day if you could have attended a march :)

transition said:

the most recent generation of humans have to live with contradictory aspects of instrumental desires that previous generations perhaps were less acquainted.

an environmental awareness of climate change (responsibility for), and at the same time need be able to enjoy the weather without the constant imposition of politics related. I used weather in that previous sentence to mean internal mental states also, a good part of maintaining healthy attitudes is being able to hold and manage representations internally regard things external, distance in a sense, for the purpose of abstraction really.

so I guess people need willfully detach some from the human social environment (shared worries, and politics) to enjoy the other aspects of the natural world. Consider for a moment it’s possibly more difficult to do this as human populations and their (individual and group) endeavors proliferate.

so there are contradictions, not that there is anything new or necessarily unhealthy about contradictions, anything that thinks bumps into them, because there is no Eden-of-thought.

anyway, to dumb it down, I ask can you get your weather without politics?

the OP heading of course hints at a Cat Stevens song

does (any) nature exist outside the work of human minds, or is everything going to eventually yield to that

I guess good people want to save some nature, that’s the idea, maintain something resembling the recent past set-point on the planet’s thermostat for one. So humanity is sort of hanging on the thermostat in a sense, same of avoiding an ecosystem collapses etc

Unlike adults, children live in a violent world. Physical violence. Verbal violence. From other children. Every child has to cope with them. That’s part of nature.

> can you get your weather without politics?

I didn’t, as a child. Already by mid primary school I was caught up in the politics of the imminent total loss of the Great Barrier Reef. Although back then it was shell collecting that was threatening it.

(To be specific, shells of the giant triton which preys on the crown of thorns).

> does (any) nature exist outside the work of human minds

Some quotes come to mind.

“Red in tooth and claw”.
“Mother nature is a bitch”.
“Always write Nature with a capital N”, Julius Sumner Miller – Nature as a deity.

Nature is not just some soft fuzzy beauty to be enjoyed.

“Could anything be more beautiful – or more deadly”.

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t recall the Cat Stevens song (and I have a perhaps irrational dislike of the man).

I’m not convinced that childrens’ weather is so influenced by politics.

Certainly I don’t recall my childhood being so influenced by the politics of the day, which were (contrary to popular belief) a good deal more acrid than those of today.

I liked Cat Stevens. Lots. Until he became Yusef A**hole and decided to call a death sentence on Salman Rushdie. He now regrets that but it is a bit late for me.

sarahs mum said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t recall the Cat Stevens song (and I have a perhaps irrational dislike of the man).

I’m not convinced that childrens’ weather is so influenced by politics.

Certainly I don’t recall my childhood being so influenced by the politics of the day, which were (contrary to popular belief) a good deal more acrid than those of today.

I liked Cat Stevens. Lots. Until he became Yusef A**hole and decided to call a death sentence on Salman Rushdie. He now regrets that but it is a bit late for me.

You made fun of our made up person, prepare to die

sarahs mum said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t recall the Cat Stevens song (and I have a perhaps irrational dislike of the man).

I’m not convinced that childrens’ weather is so influenced by politics.

Certainly I don’t recall my childhood being so influenced by the politics of the day, which were (contrary to popular belief) a good deal more acrid than those of today.

I liked Cat Stevens. Lots. Until he became Yusef A**hole and decided to call a death sentence on Salman Rushdie. He now regrets that but it is a bit late for me.

Yes, that’s the only reason I dislike him.

I don’t know that he regrets saying that. The only thing from him I have seen claiming to explain his position said in effect that he only thought killing people was OK if there was an instruction to do so from a sufficiently senior Muslim leader.

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t recall the Cat Stevens song (and I have a perhaps irrational dislike of the man).

I’m not convinced that childrens’ weather is so influenced by politics.

Certainly I don’t recall my childhood being so influenced by the politics of the day, which were (contrary to popular belief) a good deal more acrid than those of today.

I liked Cat Stevens. Lots. Until he became Yusef A**hole and decided to call a death sentence on Salman Rushdie. He now regrets that but it is a bit late for me.

Yes, that’s the only reason I dislike him.

I don’t know that he regrets saying that. The only thing from him I have seen claiming to explain his position said in effect that he only thought killing people was OK if there was an instruction to do so from a sufficiently senior Muslim leader.

Westerners that adopt Islam seem to use it so they can justify acting like shits as the religion says it’s ok, I mean c’mon Christianity already gives you that option

Cymek said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

I liked Cat Stevens. Lots. Until he became Yusef A**hole and decided to call a death sentence on Salman Rushdie. He now regrets that but it is a bit late for me.

Yes, that’s the only reason I dislike him.

I don’t know that he regrets saying that. The only thing from him I have seen claiming to explain his position said in effect that he only thought killing people was OK if there was an instruction to do so from a sufficiently senior Muslim leader.

Westerners that adopt Islam seem to use it so they can justify acting like shits as the religion says it’s ok, I mean c’mon Christianity already gives you that option

Cat Stevens did.

Many others do not.

Working for the dole while on an Indue card. How is that not slavery?

sarahs mum said:

Working for the dole while on an Indue card. How is that not slavery?

Do they even do productive work for skill building

Cymek said:

sarahs mum said:

Working for the dole while on an Indue card. How is that not slavery?

Do they even do productive work for skill building

https://www.employment.gov.au/work-dole-information-job-seekers

“There are many different activities that you may be able to do through Work for the Dole. Each will help you develop the skills that show you are ready to start work. Some examples of what you might do include:

gardening and maintenance works
conservation or environmental activities
retail work
hospitality services
office administration
warehouse duties”

Seems like some of it is productive and possibly skill building. Be pretty lame to be doing 25 hours a week in hospitality fpr $10.40.

I wonder what your average person in the street thinks about people on unemployment benefits, are they considered slackers by most or are they actually decent enough to understand why need to be paid a benefit.

dv said:

Cymek said:

sarahs mum said:

Working for the dole while on an Indue card. How is that not slavery?

Do they even do productive work for skill building

https://www.employment.gov.au/work-dole-information-job-seekers

“There are many different activities that you may be able to do through Work for the Dole. Each will help you develop the skills that show you are ready to start work. Some examples of what you might do include:

gardening and maintenance works
conservation or environmental activities
retail work
hospitality services
office administration
warehouse duties”

Seems like some of it is productive and possibly skill building. Be pretty lame to be doing 25 hours a week in hospitality fpr $10.40.

Some indigenous people are required to travel hours a day to participate.

sarahs mum said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Do they even do productive work for skill building

https://www.employment.gov.au/work-dole-information-job-seekers

“There are many different activities that you may be able to do through Work for the Dole. Each will help you develop the skills that show you are ready to start work. Some examples of what you might do include:

gardening and maintenance works
conservation or environmental activities
retail work
hospitality services
office administration
warehouse duties”

Seems like some of it is productive and possibly skill building. Be pretty lame to be doing 25 hours a week in hospitality fpr $10.40.

Some indigenous people are required to travel hours a day to participate.

Also removal of rubbish from remote communities. Some ask why that can’t be a full time paid position. Like what happens in white communities.

>Unlike adults, children live in a violent world. Physical violence. Verbal violence. From other children. Every child has to cope with them. That’s part of nature.

You could see it that way I guess. Hopefully they, and most probably do, live in a positive nurturing world, courtesy parents(caregivers), culture, the state, encouraging the better attributes of human nature. A positive space, largely