is my pet chook too, and was the last KFC you ate before someone killed it for you

Greetings

transition said:

is my pet chook too, and was the last KFC you ate before someone killed it for you

larry’s sentient what?

But, yes Larry, your pet chook, and even KFC chooks when alive, are all obviously sentient.

Why there ever should have been any doubt about this, I don’t know.

Where we draw the line between sentience and non-sentience on the sentience continuum is arbitrary.

Probably it doesn’t make any sense to draw a line at all, but we can say with confidence that chooks are sentient and rocks aren’t.

transition said:

is my pet chook too, and was the last KFC you ate before someone killed it for you

Makes you think doesn’t it, anyone with pets knows they all have distinct personalities aside to the character traits of their species.
Most animals would I be sentient I imagine, perhaps not as evolved as humans.
Whilst we shouldn’t anthropomorphise animals that also comes across as a simplistic view of them and one perhaps skewed towards justifying our poor treatment of them

As the shark’s eyes roll back do you think it is contemplating the sentience, or otherwise, of the surfer it has chosen for lunch?

Another thing that Larry and most chooks have in common is that they wouldn’t exist were it not for humans having selected them for our own purposes.

transition said:

is my pet chook too, and was the last KFC you ate before someone killed it for you

Yes, yes.

And the dog is, too.

I do think humans in general have dumbed down animals so we can exploit them as a unfeeling resources.

are they self aware? would they pass the mirror test?

Bubblecar said:

Another thing that Larry and most chooks have in common is that they wouldn’t exist were it not for humans having selected them for our own purposes.

Or did they select us for their own purposes?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

Another thing that Larry and most chooks have in common is that they wouldn’t exist were it not for humans having selected them for our own purposes.

Or did they select us for their own purposes?

A bit of both although I’m sure cage hens aren’t living the sort of life they would freely choose.

Cymek said:

I do think humans in general have dumbed down animals so we can exploit them as a unfeeling resources.

I disagree… I mean we certainly use them as a resource, food, pets, medical science… but I don’t think we think they are unfeeling, we do try to kill our meat sources in the most pain free way we can.

Cymek said:

I do think humans in general have dumbed down animals so we can exploit them as a unfeeling resources.

I don’t think that humans in general have much more concern about the sentience of their food than the shark does.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

I do think humans in general have dumbed down animals so we can exploit them as a unfeeling resources.

I don’t think that humans in general have much more concern about the sentience of their food than the shark does.

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Bubblecar said:

Another thing that Larry and most chooks have in common is that they wouldn’t exist were it not for humans having selected them for our own purposes.

Or did they select us for their own purposes?

A bit of both although I’m sure cage hens aren’t living the sort of life they would freely choose.

Yes, probably didn’t work out quite how they planned for the hens.

Although our two backyard hens seem to live a reasonably contented life.

I’m not a defender of needless cruelty but humans, like all the large primates, are more or less obligate omnivores by way of physiology.

Arts said:

Cymek said:

I do think humans in general have dumbed down animals so we can exploit them as a unfeeling resources.

I disagree… I mean we certainly use them as a resource, food, pets, medical science… but I don’t think we think they are unfeeling, we do try to kill our meat sources in the most pain free way we can.

Not everywhere though

Wonder how the non-sentient meat project is coming along.

dv said:

I’m not a defender of needless cruelty but humans, like all the large primates, are more or less obligate omnivores by way of physiology.

orang utans don’t eat meat

BTW when I kick the bucket, feel free to eat me.

Arts said:

dv said:

I’m not a defender of needless cruelty but humans, like all the large primates, are more or less obligate omnivores by way of physiology.

orang utans don’t eat meat

I’ve seen Trump scoffing down a steak or two

the Gruen challenge this week was for one company to convince vegans to become meat eaters and for the other to convince meat eaters to become vegan.. they were pretty clever ads..

Arts said:

dv said:

I’m not a defender of needless cruelty but humans, like all the large primates, are more or less obligate omnivores by way of physiology.

orang utans don’t eat meat

They habitually eat eggs for their B12 and protein.

According to this, they “sometimes eat slow lorises”
https://orangutan.org/orangutan-facts/orangutan-ecology/

Because the fast ones get away ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Cymek said:

Arts said:

dv said:

I’m not a defender of needless cruelty but humans, like all the large primates, are more or less obligate omnivores by way of physiology.

orang utans don’t eat meat

I’ve seen Trump scoffing down a steak or two

please don’t insult the orang utans.

Bubblecar said:

BTW when I kick the bucket, feel free to eat me.

Oh I don’t think we’ll wait that long

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

I’m not a defender of needless cruelty but humans, like all the large primates, are more or less obligate omnivores by way of physiology.

orang utans don’t eat meat

They habitually eat eggs for their B12 and protein.

they aren’t vegans

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

orang utans don’t eat meat

They habitually eat eggs for their B12 and protein.

they aren’t vegans

Yeah I know … they are obligate omnivores … see above

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

They habitually eat eggs for their B12 and protein.

they aren’t vegans

Yeah I know … they are obligate omnivores … see above

our orang utans get quinoa for protein…

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

orang utans don’t eat meat

They habitually eat eggs for their B12 and protein.

they aren’t vegans

If a vegan doesn’t tell anyone they are a vegan are they still vegans

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

They habitually eat eggs for their B12 and protein.

they aren’t vegans

Yeah I know … they are obligate omnivores … see above

What about mountain gorillas?

• our orang utans get quinoa for protein…

Hipsters…

furious said:

• our orang utans get quinoa for protein…

Hipsters…

yeah, we keep them away from the coffee shops…

Michael V said:

dv said:

Arts said:

they aren’t vegans

Yeah I know … they are obligate omnivores … see above

What about mountain gorillas?

Insect larvae

Does quinoa contain all 20 amino acids: ie, is it a complete source of protein for hominids?

• Does quinoa contain all 20 amino acids: ie, is it a complete source of protein for hominids?

When you’re in prison you’ll get what you’re given…

I notice all our pets have moods, and the native birds have moods, which to me is good as same thing as mental states(not meaning they have theories of mind)

the extent they might will moods is different, and certainly different to (most) humans

animals like my pets though may read instincts better

i’m coming around to the proposition self-aware consciousness may often result in instinct blindness, and that self-aware consciousness might usefully be seen as a domesticating force

dv said:

Does quinoa contain all 20 amino acids: ie, is it a complete source of protein for hominids?

I have no idea… I just know what is in the zoo diet for the orang utans, which I am assuming is well researched. I also know that quinoa used to be an amazing staple for lower socio economic groups of the region until the hipsters got hold of it and made it expensive.

Arts said:

dv said:

Does quinoa contain all 20 amino acids: ie, is it a complete source of protein for hominids?

I have no idea… I just know what is in the zoo diet for the orang utans, which I am assuming is well researched. I also know that quinoa used to be an amazing staple for lower socio economic groups of the region until the hipsters got hold of it and made it expensive.

Were I you, I’d sneak them some eggs or slow lorises just to see if they’re tempted

dv said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

Yeah I know … they are obligate omnivores … see above

What about mountain gorillas?

Insect larvae

Ta.

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Does quinoa contain all 20 amino acids: ie, is it a complete source of protein for hominids?

I have no idea… I just know what is in the zoo diet for the orang utans, which I am assuming is well researched. I also know that quinoa used to be an amazing staple for lower socio economic groups of the region until the hipsters got hold of it and made it expensive.

Were I you, I’d sneak them some eggs or slow lorises just to see if they’re tempted

we do have a couple of slow lorises… I wonder how the orangs deal with the venom…

they’re made of meat you know.

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Does quinoa contain all 20 amino acids: ie, is it a complete source of protein for hominids?

I have no idea… I just know what is in the zoo diet for the orang utans, which I am assuming is well researched. I also know that quinoa used to be an amazing staple for lower socio economic groups of the region until the hipsters got hold of it and made it expensive.

Were I you, I’d sneak them some eggs or slow lorises just to see if they’re tempted

and if you’re worried about them having weight gain from all that protein feed them slender loris

Arts said:

dv said:

Arts said:

I have no idea… I just know what is in the zoo diet for the orang utans, which I am assuming is well researched. I also know that quinoa used to be an amazing staple for lower socio economic groups of the region until the hipsters got hold of it and made it expensive.

Were I you, I’d sneak them some eggs or slow lorises just to see if they’re tempted

we do have a couple of slow lorises… I wonder how the orangs deal with the venom…

When it talks to you like you don’t belong, or tells you you’re in the wrong field. When something’s in your mitochondrial cause it latched on to you, like knock knock, let the devil in, malevolent as I’ve ever been. Head is spinnin’, this medicine screaming, “Let us in” like a salad bowl, Edgar Allen Poe bedridden, should’vebeen dead a long time ago. Liquid Tylenol gelatins, think my skeleton’s meltin’,
wicked, I get all high when I think I’ve smelled the scent of elephant manure, hell, I meant Kahlúa, screw it, to hell with it, I went through hell with accelerants and blew up myself again.

transition said:

I notice all our pets have moods, and the native birds have moods, which to me is good as same thing as mental states(not meaning they have theories of mind)

the extent they might will moods is different, and certainly different to (most) humans

animals like my pets though may read instincts better

i’m coming around to the proposition self-aware consciousness may often result in instinct blindness, and that self-aware consciousness might usefully be seen as a domesticating force

I reckon you can extract something from the human endeavors of domesticating other species, apply the tendency to workings internally of the human mind.

dv said:

Arts said:

dv said:

Were I you, I’d sneak them some eggs or slow lorises just to see if they’re tempted

we do have a couple of slow lorises… I wonder how the orangs deal with the venom…

When it talks to you like you don’t belong, or tells you you’re in the wrong field. When something’s in your mitochondrial cause it latched on to you, like knock knock, let the devil in, malevolent as I’ve ever been. Head is spinnin’, this medicine screaming, “Let us in” like a salad bowl, Edgar Allen Poe bedridden, should’vebeen dead a long time ago. Liquid Tylenol gelatins, think my skeleton’s meltin’,
wicked, I get all high when I think I’ve smelled the scent of elephant manure, hell, I meant Kahlúa, screw it, to hell with it, I went through hell with accelerants and blew up myself again.

they turn into white guys and start rapping careers?

I have multiple conflicting opinions on this.

We know that chooks can tell lies for personal gain.

On the one hand chooks are the most successful animals on Earth (needs confirmation) in that it’s the one animal species with the greatest biomass. There is more chook biomassnon earth than all the wild mammas combined.

On the other hand, living conditions of chooks are even worse than cube farm high density offices for humans.

To answer my own question:

turns out the answer is yes, quinoa is a complete protein source for hominids. It’s a bit lower in some amino acids than soy but if you eat enough quinoa you’ll catch them all.

God … this means there is something good about quinoa … it’s not all just hipster bullshit. Cursed knowledge.

mollwollfumble said:

We know that chooks can tell lies for personal gain.

and they deserve to be eaten for their sins

dv said:

To answer my own question:

turns out the answer is yes, quinoa is a complete protein source for hominids. It’s a bit lower in some amino acids than soy but if you eat enough quinoa you’ll catch them all.

God … this means there is something good about quinoa … it’s not all just hipster bullshit. Cursed knowledge.

dude, calm down.. go and have some Sriracha and a nice half caff decaf soy latte and a good lie down

dv said:

To answer my own question:

turns out the answer is yes, quinoa is a complete protein source for hominids. It’s a bit lower in some amino acids than soy but if you eat enough quinoa you’ll catch them all.

God … this means there is something good about quinoa … it’s not all just hipster bullshit. Cursed knowledge.

The Ancients knew about quinoa…

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

We know that chooks can tell lies for personal gain.

and they deserve to be eaten for their sins

And that clucking noise they make is them laughing at the thought of humans eating their expelled waste…

buffy said:

dv said:

To answer my own question:

turns out the answer is yes, quinoa is a complete protein source for hominids. It’s a bit lower in some amino acids than soy but if you eat enough quinoa you’ll catch them all.

God … this means there is something good about quinoa … it’s not all just hipster bullshit. Cursed knowledge.

The Ancients knew about quinoa…

Hipsters pretty much steal old ways of making food and call it new

Douglas Adams has an interesting take on eating sentient animals.

“would you like meet the Dish of the Day?”

“A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beeblebrox’s table, a large fat meaty quadruped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might almost have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.

“Good evening,” it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, “I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in the parts of my body?

Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.

“Something off the shoulder perhaps?” suggested the animal, “braised in a white wine sauce?”

“Er, your shoulder?” said Arthur in a horrified whisper.

“But naturally my shoulder, sir,” mooed the animal contentedly, “nobody else’s is mine to offer.”

Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling the animal’s shoulder appreciatively.

“Or the rump is very good,” murmured the animal. “I’ve been exercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there’s a lot of good meat there.”

“Or a casserole of me perhaps?” it added.

“You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?”

“That’s absolutely horrible,” exclaimed Arthur, “the most revolting thing I’ve ever heard.”

“What’s the problem Earthman?” said Zaphod, now transferring his attention to the animal’s enormous rump.

“I just don’t want to eat an animal that’s standing there inviting me to,” said Arthur, “It’s heartless.”

“Better than eating an animal that doesn’t want to be eaten,” said Zaphod.

“That’s not the point,” Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment. “Alright,” he said, “maybe it is the point. I don’t care, I’m not going to think about it now.

“May I urge you to consider my liver?” asked the animal, “it must be very rich and tender by now, I’ve been force-feeding myself for months.”

So, from a moral viewpoint, is it more moral to eat animals that are sentient enough to want to be eaten?

Still!

There are no plant sources of B12. Some animals manufacture their own in a foregut (or rather the biota in the foregut does it), but for us, we only make it in the intestines which is too far down the path (unless you want to eat a little of your own shit). You really only need a tiny amount of B12.

furious said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

We know that chooks can tell lies for personal gain.

and they deserve to be eaten for their sins

And that clucking noise they make is them laughing at the thought of humans eating their expelled waste…

urm, we don’t eat chickenshit.

furious said:

dv said:

mollwollfumble said:

We know that chooks can tell lies for personal gain.

and they deserve to be eaten for their sins

And that clucking noise they make is them laughing at the thought of humans eating their expelled waste…

Fried chicken ovulation sir

On another level, its all atomic particles.

• urm, we don’t eat chickenshit.

An egg is expelled and unfertilized it is a waste, thus expelled waste…

dv said:

To answer my own question:

turns out the answer is yes, quinoa is a complete protein source for hominids. It’s a bit lower in some amino acids than soy but if you eat enough quinoa you’ll catch them all.

God … this means there is something good about quinoa … it’s not all just hipster bullshit. Cursed knowledge.

LOL

dv said:

Still!

There are no plant sources of B12. Some animals manufacture their own in a foregut (or rather the biota in the foregut does it), but for us, we only make it in the intestines which is too far down the path (unless you want to eat a little of your own shit). You really only need a tiny amount of B12.

As I understand it, sunlight on mushrooms stimulates bacteria to make B12.

Michael V said:

dv said:

Still!

There are no plant sources of B12. Some animals manufacture their own in a foregut (or rather the biota in the foregut does it), but for us, we only make it in the intestines which is too far down the path (unless you want to eat a little of your own shit). You really only need a tiny amount of B12.

As I understand it, sunlight on mushrooms stimulates bacteria to make B12.

I’m not expert but I thought that might just be there’s often a bit of manure on mushrooms…

dv said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

Still!

There are no plant sources of B12. Some animals manufacture their own in a foregut (or rather the biota in the foregut does it), but for us, we only make it in the intestines which is too far down the path (unless you want to eat a little of your own shit). You really only need a tiny amount of B12.

As I understand it, sunlight on mushrooms stimulates bacteria to make B12.

I’m not expert but I thought that might just be there’s often a bit of manure on mushrooms…

Not just manure-grown mushrooms, but tree-grown mushrooms, too.

Michael V said:

dv said:

Michael V said:

As I understand it, sunlight on mushrooms stimulates bacteria to make B12.

I’m not expert but I thought that might just be there’s often a bit of manure on mushrooms…

Not just manure-grown mushrooms, but tree-grown mushrooms, too.

No shit!

Ian said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

I’m not expert but I thought that might just be there’s often a bit of manure on mushrooms…

Not just manure-grown mushrooms, but tree-grown mushrooms, too.

No shit!

LOL