Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

Wellllll….

It depends on your council. Black plastic trays which hold your meat from the supermarket can be recycled, however the machines can’t ‘see’ them on the conveyor belt.

In some states, taking your soft drink bottles to a centre nets you 10c per container. Otherwise, stick ‘em in your recycling bin.

It also depends on what you mean by “recycled”. Bottle caps (generally) can’t be put into your roadside recycling bin, but they can be donated to a charity which makes prosthetic hands for children. https://envision.org.au/envision-hands/

All Woolies and Coles now have red bins in every store which you can take your soft plastics eg cling wrap, one-use plastic bags etc to be recycled. These are turned into playground equipment and roads.

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-24/what-plastics-can-i-recycle-war-on-waste/8548658?pfmredir=sm

Probably none, now that China and other SEA countries have stopped the importation of rubbish for recycling. Might as well stop the whole scheme and re-sort our rubbish into “landfill” and “combustible” wastes.

how dare they

SCIENCE said:

how dare they

Well it is quite simple, the western countries and companies sending them rubbish never do a proper job of cleaning and sorting it. The rubbish is always contaminated with other stuff that shouldn’t be in there, leaving those countries to deal with the waste, mostly by sending tonnes and tonnes of it to landfill. The proportions of landfill to usable material was causing them a problem. So they stopped it.

.. for now. Canada and the Philippines are on the brink of war over the issue.

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

Our Council’s web site gives clear instructions on this.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

we think reduce comes before reuse

Are there any controversies here that I can embroil myself in?

dv said:

Are there any controversies here that I can embroil myself in?

Difficulty in recycling plastic tops perhaps.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

dv said:

Are there any controversies here that I can embroil myself in?

Damn that worked out nicely.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

we think reduce comes before reuse

and they both come before recycle, but once the reduced number of plastics have been reused all they can, something needs to be done with them, and I doubt that deliberately dumping selected items that could be recycled actually makes sense.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

If that’s the case why were such valuable resources squandered on the manufacture of useless plastics?

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

Well that’s the worst possible idea.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

we think reduce comes before reuse

Yes.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

True.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Using it as weed controlliing mulch also does the same.

All cardboard and paper at our place ends up in the garden as does all green waste.

I would like to recycle mixed plastics into deep flower pot saucers, but I haven’t worked out a low-energy method of doing so yet.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

Well that’s the worst possible idea.

That’s the rubbish problem we make, takes up a lot of room and not worth recycling

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

Well that’s the worst possible idea.

true.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

we think reduce comes before reuse

Yes.

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

Not officially, I don’t think. But when we lived at Hawkesdale it was not uncommon to wake in the middle of the night to a very particular smoke smell and think…hmm, someone has “accidentally” lit the tip again.

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-24/what-plastics-can-i-recycle-war-on-waste/8548658?pfmredir=sm

> at least 20 per cent of what is in our garbage bins right now should be in our recycle bins, according to Planet Ark’s

Oh, the old “Planet Fark” – don’t believe a word they say.

> For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

At least 7 good reasons.

• Foams such as polystyrene foam bubbles (recycle number 6) are caught by the lightest breeze and blown all around the recycling plant clogging everything up and making the place a pigsty. Recyclers hate it.
• PVC (recycle number 3) stinks to high heaven and is an environmental nightmare because of the chlorine gas given off when you heat it to recycle it.
• Low density plastics (including all foams) are so bulky that they cost more to transport than the small amount of return from the pitifully small amount of material recovered.
• A lot of different plastics can be recycled but are so devilishly difficult to recycle that it’s better not to (many in recycle number 7).
• There is a minimum size for a piece of plastic that is worth recycling.
• Mixed plastics are difficult to sort so should be avoided. Better all around to limit the amount of sorting needed.
• Plastic mixed up in the same object as non-plastics.

Probably other good reasons as well.

A no-brainer is to recycle all hard plastics stamped with recycle numbers 1, 2, 4, 5.

But beyond that I’m uncertain. So much plastic comes these days without a recycle stamp – just about everything from the hardware store has no recycle stamp. What about ABS (eg. musical instruments and car bumper bars). What about clothing (polyester)? What about urea formaldehyde?

buffy said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

Not officially, I don’t think. But when we lived at Hawkesdale it was not uncommon to wake in the middle of the night to a very particular smoke smell and think…hmm, someone has “accidentally” lit the tip again.

^sometimes it is spontaneous combustion.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

we think reduce comes before reuse

Yes.

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

Is capable of reducing the cost of the item to the consumer by as much as four fifths.

buffy said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Landfill people commonly burn off the cardboard and paper to make room for other waste.

Not officially, I don’t think. But when we lived at Hawkesdale it was not uncommon to wake in the middle of the night to a very particular smoke smell and think…hmm, someone has “accidentally” lit the tip again.

Unavoidable as land available for rubbish burial is becoming difficult to obtain.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

So does sending plastics to landfill.

Probably need a technical revolution as well as a cultural one. On one hand, making sustainability more convenient, on the other hand convincing people that not everything has to be absolutely as convenient as possible.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

we think reduce comes before reuse

Yes.

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

Michael V said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

So does sending plastics to landfill.

The full cycle of making plastics from hydrocarbons and then burying them doesn’t lower atmospheric carbon.

The full cycle of growing plantations to make paper or cardboard, then burying them ultimately, does lower atmospheric carbon.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yes.

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

Individually shrink wrapped bananas.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Not really. It will break down over time and produce methane. It would need some care and detail in how it gets buried to stop seepage of methane back into the atmosphere, where it would be worse than carbon dioxide.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yes.

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

party_pants said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So do we have well defined numbers for these things?

Seems to me that it would be better just to recycle everything that can be recycled.

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

Not really. It will break down over time and produce methane. It would need some care and detail in how it gets buried to stop seepage of methane back into the atmosphere, where it would be worse than carbon dioxide.

So do it.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

But I’m not talking about recycling here: I’m following up PermeateFree’s idea of emphasising reuse.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Then you have meat, dairy, frozen goods, confectionery, drinks, etc., etc., etc. We have incorporated packaging into our lifestyles.

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

A how do you think that would work these days in our mega cities? It would just create a new set of problems.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

A how do you think that would work these days in our mega cities? It would just create a new set of problems.

Cue suggestions of drones flying about collecting them…

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

But I’m not talking about recycling here: I’m following up PermeateFree’s idea of emphasising reuse.

So refill the coffee cups?

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

A how do you think that would work these days in our mega cities? It would just create a new set of problems.

Cue suggestions of drones flying about collecting them…

Tau would vote for that.

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

Schweppes curtailed glass bottles worldwide in 1971.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

A how do you think that would work these days in our mega cities? It would just create a new set of problems.

Cue suggestions of drones flying about collecting them…

fuck! I got my head shaved by seven drones just walking to my mailbox.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

But I’m not talking about recycling here: I’m following up PermeateFree’s idea of emphasising reuse.

So refill the coffee cups?

Well … yeah … it’s not rocket sci.

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

But I’m not talking about recycling here: I’m following up PermeateFree’s idea of emphasising reuse.

So refill the coffee cups?

Well … yeah … it’s not rocket sci.

Too much water is wasted now on feeding overblown coffee addictions.

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

Over packaging is something that can be easily addressed.

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Like, you know, when milk came in bottles?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

But I’m not talking about recycling here: I’m following up PermeateFree’s idea of emphasising reuse.

So refill the coffee cups?

The coffee shop near Red Cross sells waxed cup coffee for $5. Bring your own cup for $3.
Most people do the $3.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

I think the major problem with packaging these days is the need to keep products uncontaminated in supermarkets. People say all we needed in the old days was a string bag, but things have changed, we now have a greater range of goods and we purchase far more at a time, plus we have legislated hygiene standards.

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

I’ve got a collection. I prick out veggie seedlings into them. Then when I plant out, I chop off the bottom and plant the whole thing. The cup lasts long enough to do a little rain catching for the baby plant and then disintegrates as the plant grows.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

except real-world economics.

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

except real-world economics.

yep, cos if was economical they’d be doing it.

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

I don’t why we don’t go back to milk in plastic bags.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

Except that it takes a lot of energy and water to clean and reuse them, which is why things changed.

Ian said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

I don’t why we don’t go back to milk in plastic bags.

Of course the getting it out of the bag proved problematic. They shoulda incorporated tits as nature intended.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I would hope that solutions to this would be workable. Have a fairly small number of kinds of reusable container (perhaps sealed with a bit of wax or something). You go to the store and buy your beans or gummi bears in reusable containers: when you go back you return them, they are cleaned and sent back to the packing plants.

Of course this adds to the travel emissions but (shrugs) one hopes that soon enough the economy will be net zero carbon…

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

I’ve got a collection. I prick out veggie seedlings into them. Then when I plant out, I chop off the bottom and plant the whole thing. The cup lasts long enough to do a little rain catching for the baby plant and then disintegrates as the plant grows.

Yes. I’ve been doing that with milk cartons for decades.

Ian said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

I don’t why we don’t go back to milk in plastic bags.

Sarcasm is the…

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

Packaging really is a highly complex problem affecting many people and businesses to enable a product in good and uncontaminated condition to reach the consumer. Polybags and straws achieves very little and largely shifts the problem elsewhere, when you look at the packaging in the supermarket, about the only thing not packaged is the fruit and vegetables, then look at the rest of the store……it is ALL packaged. Simple, short term solutions had they been viable would have been done already. What is needed is big machine where you can tip all rubbish, not just sorted item and have it convert it to a usable product, even if we just make our roads from it.

Ian said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

In the olden days, milk and drink bottles were reused pretty widely…

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

I don’t why we don’t go back to milk in plastic bags.

When she was little my daughter trod on one & it blew milk all up under the dash. Car stunk of sour milk for weeks.

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

Except that it takes a lot of energy and water to clean and reuse them, which is why things changed.

Yeah, we have been through that in the economics thing but we sell how much beer and wine in glass that can easily be recycled? but

Ian said:

Ian said:

party_pants said:

We used to have a milkman that delivered milk a couple of times a week and took away the empties. But it is terrible inefficient. They switched to cardboard milk cartons instead. Then they couldn’t make a profit on that because supermarkets were just so much more efficient.

I don’t why we don’t go back to milk in plastic bags.

Of course the getting it out of the bag proved problematic. They shoulda incorporated tits as nature intended.

Cask wine works OK.

Tamb said:

Ian said:

Ian said:

I don’t why we don’t go back to milk in plastic bags.

Of course the getting it out of the bag proved problematic. They shoulda incorporated tits as nature intended.

Cask wine works OK.

If you cut one corner off.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Ian said:

Of course the getting it out of the bag proved problematic. They shoulda incorporated tits as nature intended.

Cask wine works OK.

If you cut one corner off.

There is a built-in tap thingie.

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

Except that it takes a lot of energy and water to clean and reuse them, which is why things changed.

Yeah, we have been through that in the economics thing but we sell how much beer and wine in glass that can easily be recycled? but

But it’s not. Too many glass types. Standardisation would be a good thing.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Cask wine works OK.

If you cut one corner off.

There is a built-in tap thingie.

Yeah but one still can only get the dregs by cutting a corner off.

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Except that it takes a lot of energy and water to clean and reuse them, which is why things changed.

Yeah, we have been through that in the economics thing but we sell how much beer and wine in glass that can easily be recycled? but

But it’s not. Too many glass types. Standardisation would be a good thing.

Indeed.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Cask wine works OK.

If you cut one corner off.

There is a built-in tap thingie.

Then getting rid of the box and inner bag is neither practical or economical. Much cheaper and less co2 in a plastic bottle.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

If you cut one corner off.

There is a built-in tap thingie.

Yeah but one still can only get the dregs by cutting a corner off.

I hold the tap open & upright. Air gets in then I put the bladder tap down & squeeze. Gets it all.
Banrock station do a cask line with wine identical to their bottled version. They do it to be kinder to the environment.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

If you cut one corner off.

There is a built-in tap thingie.

Then getting rid of the box and inner bag is neither practical or economical. Much cheaper and less co2 in a plastic bottle.

But air gets to the wine in a bottle.

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

Waxed coffee cups are decidedly difficult to recycle.

I’ve got a collection. I prick out veggie seedlings into them. Then when I plant out, I chop off the bottom and plant the whole thing. The cup lasts long enough to do a little rain catching for the baby plant and then disintegrates as the plant grows.

Yes. I’ve been doing that with milk cartons for decades.

The milk cartons went by the wayside years ago. The coffee cups are a much better size.

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

There is a built-in tap thingie.

Then getting rid of the box and inner bag is neither practical or economical. Much cheaper and less co2 in a plastic bottle.

But air gets to the wine in a bottle.

Thought we were talking about milk and general liquid packaging.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Then getting rid of the box and inner bag is neither practical or economical. Much cheaper and less co2 in a plastic bottle.

But air gets to the wine in a bottle.

Thought we were talking about milk and general liquid packaging.

It expanded to include all liquids.

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

But air gets to the wine in a bottle.

Thought we were talking about milk and general liquid packaging.

It expanded to include all liquids.

If you think we have a problem with plastic bottles, imagine being up to you knees in cardboard boxes, each with an empty fancy plastic bag. Solving that problem would not be easy and probably very expensive.

buffy said:

roughbarked said:

buffy said:

I’ve got a collection. I prick out veggie seedlings into them. Then when I plant out, I chop off the bottom and plant the whole thing. The cup lasts long enough to do a little rain catching for the baby plant and then disintegrates as the plant grows.

Yes. I’ve been doing that with milk cartons for decades.

The milk cartons went by the wayside years ago. The coffee cups are a much better size.

:) I actually asked people to collect their milk cartons for me and still have some to use.

PermeateFree said:

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

Thought we were talking about milk and general liquid packaging.

It expanded to include all liquids.

If you think we have a problem with plastic bottles, imagine being up to you knees in cardboard boxes, each with an empty fancy plastic bag. Solving that problem would not be easy and probably very expensive.

Yeah, this.

Unless it was just a sealed plastic bag on its own, that you opened with scissors and poured into a jug to go into the fridge. Maybe you put your spares in the vegetable drawer of the fridge until you need to open them.

dv said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

I wouldn’t go along with that. There’s a good environmental case not to recycle paper and cardboard. Sending it to landfill sequesters carbon.

So does sending plastics to landfill.

The full cycle of making plastics from hydrocarbons and then burying them doesn’t lower atmospheric carbon.

The full cycle of growing plantations to make paper or cardboard, then burying them ultimately, does lower atmospheric carbon.

wrong plastic, try the one the Palestine Liberation Army uses

ChrispenEvan said:

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

There is nothing stopping supermarkets selling milk in glass.

except real-world economics.

yep, cos if was economical they’d be doing it.

¿so Pigou was imaginary then?

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

because the resources involved in doing so may do more good in other uses

If that’s the case why were such valuable resources squandered on the manufacture of useless plastics?

#1

mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which plastics:
a) Can and should be recycled
b) Can be recycled and shouldn’t
c) Can’t be recycled.

Are you up to date on this?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-24/what-plastics-can-i-recycle-war-on-waste/8548658?pfmredir=sm

> at least 20 per cent of what is in our garbage bins right now should be in our recycle bins, according to Planet Ark’s

Oh, the old “Planet Fark” – don’t believe a word they say.

> For b), if a plastic can be recycled, why shouldn’t it be?

At least 7 good reasons.

• Foams such as polystyrene foam bubbles (recycle number 6) are caught by the lightest breeze and blown all around the recycling plant clogging everything up and making the place a pigsty. Recyclers hate it.
• PVC (recycle number 3) stinks to high heaven and is an environmental nightmare because of the chlorine gas given off when you heat it to recycle it.
• Low density plastics (including all foams) are so bulky that they cost more to transport than the small amount of return from the pitifully small amount of material recovered.
• A lot of different plastics can be recycled but are so devilishly difficult to recycle that it’s better not to (many in recycle number 7).
• There is a minimum size for a piece of plastic that is worth recycling.
• Mixed plastics are difficult to sort so should be avoided. Better all around to limit the amount of sorting needed.
• Plastic mixed up in the same object as non-plastics.

Probably other good reasons as well.

A no-brainer is to recycle all hard plastics stamped with recycle numbers 1, 2, 4, 5.

But beyond that I’m uncertain. So much plastic comes these days without a recycle stamp – just about everything from the hardware store has no recycle stamp. What about ABS (eg. musical instruments and car bumper bars). What about clothing (polyester)? What about urea formaldehyde?

Thank You
of course that’s the answer
thank you for not making me dig for that.

I do my best to sort it
but most often RE-PURPOSE plastic items

Divine Angel said:

Wellllll….

It depends on your council. Black plastic trays which hold your meat from the supermarket can be recycled, however the machines can’t ‘see’ them on the conveyor belt.

In some states, taking your soft drink bottles to a centre nets you 10c per container. Otherwise, stick ‘em in your recycling bin.

It also depends on what you mean by “recycled”. Bottle caps (generally) can’t be put into your roadside recycling bin, but they can be donated to a charity which makes prosthetic hands for children. https://envision.org.au/envision-hands/

These are turned into playground equipment and roads.

> Black plastic trays which hold your meat from the supermarket can be recycled

Hard plastic perhaps but not foam plastic? Neither have recycle symbols on them.

> It also depends on what you mean by “recycled”. Bottle caps (generally) can’t be put into your roadside recycling bin

According to our council you can and should. To quote them “Squeeze air out of plastic bottle, and replace lid.”

> All Woolies and Coles now have red bins in every store which you can take your soft plastics eg cling wrap

That’s what prompted this thread – I’d always been told that they shouldn’t be recycled, and now there are special recycle bins for them. Which soft plastics? Apparently, green bags can’t be recycled.

> Tamb said:

Our Council’s web site gives clear instructions on this.

Perhaps ours isn’t bad either. Checking:

https://www.kingston.vic.gov.au/Services/Rubbish-and-Recycling/A-to-Z-of-waste-disposal

Dang it, this is really useful.

Cellophane – don’t recycle
Polyester clothing – ditto
Polystyrene foam – ditto
Foam underlay – ditto
Pens – ditto
Plastic gloves – ditto

Cereal box liners – place your items in the collection bin in the foyer of the supermarket.
Chip packets – ditto
Cling wrap – ditto
Green bags – ditto

CD/DVD – require special recycling as e-waste
VHS cassettes – ditto

Plastic coffee pods – require special recycling
Eye glasses – ditto
Polystyrene – ditto
X-rays – ditto

CD/DVD case – normal recycling
Plastic bottles with lids – ditto
Cooking oil containers – ditto
Plastic cutlery – ditto
Detergent bottles – ditto
Ice cream container – ditto
Plastic lunch boxes – ditto
Plastic toys (no batteries) – ditto
Tupperware – ditto
Vitamin bottles – ditto

Really good website, but still says nothing about the myriad of plastic packets and plastic items from hardware stores.