Date: 7/11/2019 13:17:53
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1458733
Subject: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

“The Earth shook, the sky burnt” by Bronson
Excellent book, spared no effort in finding the best pictures of all aspects of the disaster.

I read it mainly to teach myself how one copes with a disaster of this magnitude. But there was a lighter side. After all the bodies were recovered from an insane asylum, a live person was found. This was considered a miracle until it was discovered that he’d buried himself in the rubble just half an hour earlier in an attempt to escape from the insane asylum.

In every case, the earthquake was followed by fire. This highlights what I’d learnt from the Fukushima tsunami – natural gas is by far the most dangerous source of power.

At the time, there was no such thing as a perfect building material. Brick is the worst possible building material in an earthquake, but it is the only building material to survive a fire.

There are some brilliant wide-angle aerial photographs of the disaster, made by a 45 pound camera suspended beneath 15 box kites.

Let’s peel the disaster and relief efforts off in time slices.

1. Pre-earthquake. Not the first disaster to hit San Francisco. There were fires 20 years earlier. Other US cities had also had great fires, eg. Chicago.

2. Earthquake. This caused the greatest loss of life, particularly in places with lots of people – cheap hotels being the worst. Worst damage in San Francisco city centre and Santa Rosa to the north. Damage was capricious, Santa Rosa is nowhere near the fault line, whereas nearby Oakland, Berkeley and Alameda, all near the fault line, were practically undamaged. Five people died in Oakland. Lessons to be learned:

3. Fire. 16 main fire start locations, only two of which were contained. Material damage and homelessness from fires massively exceeds that from the earthquake. Second most important cause of death. Major fires last four days. Attempts to extinguish fires and construct firebreaks using dynamite were completely ineffective. Lessons to be learned:

4. Immediate response. Army, police and firefighters of course. Accept help from all volunteers. Encourage passers by to help in firefighting and clearing rubble. Lessons to be learned:

5. Stopping looting. Centralise response. Organise and deputise vigilante militias to stop looting. Valuable goods in the rubble will be commandeered by official agencies. In the San Francisco earthquake 1906, the relief efforts were all centralised under the Red Cross. The fourth most common cause of death was killing of looters and others by vigilant militias, 9 dead. Lessons to be learned:

6. Food. Food came into the area by train from all over the USA. Lessons:

7. Accommodation. After the San Francisco fires, emergency accommodation went through five quite separate stages. a) Sleeping in halls, b) Army small tents, c) Semi-permanent tents high enough to stand up and walk around in, d) mass-produced one room cottages with water, plumbing, toilet and cooking facilities, and barrack accommodation, e) Cottage relocation onto the owner’s block of land. While this is in progress, eating places with very long trestle tables were set up near the tent cities, at first open to the sky but with walls. Free clothing handouts for anyone to sort through. Lessons:

8. Insurance. It turns out that there was a huge difference between good insurers and bad insurers. All the German and part German insurers turned out to be bad insurers – did everything they could to stop and delay payments. For example, if your insurance certificate was lost in the fire then a bad insurer wouldn’t pay a cent. A lot of insurers went under, as would be expected. But lack of funds turned out not to be a guide to good and bad insurers. The cleverest good insurer only had funds to pay 45% of claims, so they wound up the company, created a new insurance company, and paid out the insured in 45% cash and 55% shares in the new company. Lesson:

9. Relief funding. By far the largest relief funding for San Francisco from overseas came from Japan, more than 50% of the sum total of all relief funding from outside the USA. No lesson, but interesting. It’s claimed that no-one in need of relief was ever turned away by the Red Cross, unless there was a different organisation better equipped to provide that relief. Lesson:

10. Money. Banks, burnt to the ground, immediately opened in temporary offices. Although all records were lost, every depositor recognised by staff was paid out in gold coin from the mint. Lesson:

11. Rebuilding. A centralised reconstruction committee with special subcommittees for assessment, water and sewerage, street widening, hospitals, demolition. A rapid accumulation of plans to rebuild. Funding from private enterprise, even from those who has lost enormous amounts of money in the fire. Plans for the first new skyscraper was approved just 5 days after the earthquake, as soon as the main fires were extinguished. By monday after the fire, 300 plumbers were at work on water supply and sewerage. Boom in businesses of souvenirs, blacksmithing, safecracking, newspapers. A new improved city plan was approved a month after the fire, then totally ignored. Lessons:

12. Rent. With the massive numbers of homeless, rent prices shot up everywhere. New flats were all sold before the foundation was laid. Lessons:

13. Cleanup. “clearing away the debris was judged a greater effort than building the Panama Canal”. The city’s debris was carted away in railway cars on newly built tracks to be dumped in the bay and, when the bay was full, out to sea. Lessons:

14. The third most common death came later. Bubonic plague broke out in the city one year later, and killed 77. Lesson:

15. Timescale. Rebuilding was largely complete in three years. By that time, 28,000 buildings had gone up to replace the 20,000 destroyed in the fire.

Lesson:

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 13:33:56
From: sibeen
ID: 1458734
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

mollwollfumble said:

10. Money. Banks, burnt to the ground, immediately opened in temporary offices. Although all records were lost, every depositor recognised by staff was paid out in gold coin from the mint. Lesson:

  • That’s a great strategy.

And that wouldn’t work today.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 13:40:40
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1458736
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

Also..fire is fickle. One of my friends told me that her house rough hewn vertical board shack, did not burn down in the 67 fire whereas the brick houses in the street did.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 13:43:49
From: party_pants
ID: 1458737
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

sibeen said:


mollwollfumble said:

10. Money. Banks, burnt to the ground, immediately opened in temporary offices. Although all records were lost, every depositor recognised by staff was paid out in gold coin from the mint. Lesson:

  • That’s a great strategy.

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 13:53:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1458738
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

party_pants said:


sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

10. Money. Banks, burnt to the ground, immediately opened in temporary offices. Although all records were lost, every depositor recognised by staff was paid out in gold coin from the mint. Lesson:

  • That’s a great strategy.

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

Provided that the banking customers retain sufficient identification in the earthquake’s aftermath to satisfy the bank’s requirements (and it ‘s not all buried in the rubble somewhere).

When i worked for Centrelink, we had a disaster plan where we could set up temporary operations. We had things like typewriters and rubber stamps stored away so we could do ‘stone-age’ services.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 13:58:49
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1458739
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

sibeen said:

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

Provided that the banking customers retain sufficient identification in the earthquake’s aftermath to satisfy the bank’s requirements (and it ‘s not all buried in the rubble somewhere).

When i worked for Centrelink, we had a disaster plan where we could set up temporary operations. We had things like typewriters and rubber stamps stored away so we could do ‘stone-age’ services.

Be interesting if the banking sector were hacked and all their data destroyed.
But that is probably something for another thread.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 14:00:46
From: Tamb
ID: 1458740
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

sibeen said:

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

Provided that the banking customers retain sufficient identification in the earthquake’s aftermath to satisfy the bank’s requirements (and it ‘s not all buried in the rubble somewhere).

When i worked for Centrelink, we had a disaster plan where we could set up temporary operations. We had things like typewriters and rubber stamps stored away so we could do ‘stone-age’ services.


Men are more likely to retain ID. Their wallet is always in their pocket. Ladies ID is in their handbag & can easily be misplaced.
Here in FNQ we get cycloned regularly & there is very little loss of essentials.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 14:01:52
From: party_pants
ID: 1458741
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

sibeen said:

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

Provided that the banking customers retain sufficient identification in the earthquake’s aftermath to satisfy the bank’s requirements (and it ‘s not all buried in the rubble somewhere).

When i worked for Centrelink, we had a disaster plan where we could set up temporary operations. We had things like typewriters and rubber stamps stored away so we could do ‘stone-age’ services.

Nah, name, address, date of birth, phone number, security password. The usual stuff they use to ID you over the phone whn you need to ring them about stuff.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:09:56
From: Arts
ID: 1458781
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

Tamb said:


captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

Provided that the banking customers retain sufficient identification in the earthquake’s aftermath to satisfy the bank’s requirements (and it ‘s not all buried in the rubble somewhere).

When i worked for Centrelink, we had a disaster plan where we could set up temporary operations. We had things like typewriters and rubber stamps stored away so we could do ‘stone-age’ services.


Men are more likely to retain ID. Their wallet is always in their pocket. Ladies ID is in their handbag & can easily be misplaced.
Here in FNQ we get cycloned regularly & there is very little loss of essentials.

almost everyone’s ID is on their phone now…

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:11:17
From: dv
ID: 1458784
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

Arts said:

almost everyone’s ID is on their phone now…

I wonder whether police would accept a driver’s licence that was on a phone

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:12:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1458785
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

dv said:


Arts said:

almost everyone’s ID is on their phone now…

I wonder whether police would accept a driver’s licence that was on a phone

Soon enough they will because the license and the registration will be renewable via the phone.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:12:25
From: Arts
ID: 1458786
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

dv said:


Arts said:

almost everyone’s ID is on their phone now…

I wonder whether police would accept a driver’s licence that was on a phone

I guess I meant their bank stuff.. but I also keep my DL in my phone case, in fact my phone case is my entire ‘purse’ now.. it’s all I carry.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:17:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1458789
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

i heard that when some electronics went down recently
shoppers had to pay in cash and those who did not have any
had no recourse but to stand and look embarrassed

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:19:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1458792
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

SCIENCE said:


i heard that when some electronics went down recently
shoppers had to pay in cash and those who did not have any
had no recourse but to stand and look embarrassed

Which is why I refuse to work for people who do not pay in cash money.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:19:55
From: dv
ID: 1458793
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

SCIENCE said:


i heard that when some electronics went down recently
shoppers had to pay in cash and those who did not have any
had no recourse but to stand and look embarrassed

Or just go somewhere else I guess.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:29:30
From: Arts
ID: 1458801
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

SCIENCE said:


i heard that when some electronics went down recently
shoppers had to pay in cash and those who did not have any
had no recourse but to stand and look embarrassed

so the store lost 90% of it’s sales that day.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:38:44
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1458811
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

it was at major supermarkets

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:40:12
From: roughbarked
ID: 1458815
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

SCIENCE said:


it was at major supermarkets

Haven’t shopped with them. Which state do they operate in?

Reply Quote

Date: 7/11/2019 15:40:16
From: dv
ID: 1458816
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

SCIENCE said:


it was at major supermarkets

So really it was a victory for the little guys. The homonculi, leprechauns and so forth.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/11/2019 00:49:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1459014
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

pardon the cognitive impairment i recalled incorrectly
it was a major bank and it was on 2019-10-18
no need to ask which bank

Reply Quote

Date: 8/11/2019 02:39:11
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1459018
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

sarahs mum said:


Also..fire is fickle. One of my friends told me that her house rough hewn vertical board shack, did not burn down in the 67 fire whereas the brick houses in the street did.

Yes and no. Small fires and the edges of fire zones are fickle. But when the fire spreads over a full 300 city blocks you can be sure that every building within the fire’s perimeter gets razed.

party_pants said:


sibeen said:

mollwollfumble said:

10. Money. Banks, burnt to the ground, immediately opened in temporary offices. Although all records were lost, every depositor recognised by staff was paid out in gold coin from the mint. Lesson:

  • That’s a great strategy.

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

I was wondering about that.

I don’t see either identification or data backup as as great a problem as whether the banks decide to play hardball (like some insurance companies). The bank that holds on longest after the disaster before opening its doors will come out with the greatest competitive advantage in the short term as customers rash the first banks open. A run on the bank is often used as a good excuse for closing the bank doors (like stock market). The inability to open the bank vault can also be used as an excuse for not opening.

Take identification for example. For those who have lost identification, relief officers could issue temporary IDs that the banks could honour. Replacement credit and debit cards could be shipped in from outside, it they wanted to, within a couple of days.

Opening shortly after a disaster is a huge gamble for banks. In San Francisco it was only possible by a rapidly formed partnership between all banks and the mint. I don’t know how they managed that, because the mint was one of the first buildings to be burnt down. The banks first produced withdrawal chits payable in gold coin by the mint.

Straight after a disaster, paper money within the disaster zone becomes immediately worthless. It can’t purchase food, clothing, housing. It’s only outside the disaster zone that paper money has value.

Over time, forgotten funds (eg. in term deposits) could be made available to people who don’t even realise that they have the money, or in the case of deaths have inherited the money. For example, CHESS and the ATO keep track of my shares and interest-earning bank deposits without any need for input from me.

—-

I see the need for three independent shut-offs for natural gas.

—-

The Japanese after their tsunami relied on rapid DNA identification of body parts for calculating the death toll, and presumably for handling inheritance. The total number of confirmed dead remained lower than the number of “missing, presumed dead”.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/11/2019 03:24:13
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1459024
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

sarahs mum said:


Also..fire is fickle. One of my friends told me that her house rough hewn vertical board shack, did not burn down in the 67 fire whereas the brick houses in the street did.

Yes and no. Small fires and the edges of fire zones are fickle. But when the fire spreads over a full 300 city blocks you can be sure that every building within the fire’s perimeter gets razed.

party_pants said:

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

I was wondering about that.

I don’t see either identification or data backup as as great a problem as whether the banks decide to play hardball (like some insurance companies). The bank that holds on longest after the disaster before opening its doors will come out with the greatest competitive advantage in the short term as customers rash the first banks open. A run on the bank is often used as a good excuse for closing the bank doors (like stock market). The inability to open the bank vault can also be used as an excuse for not opening.

Take identification for example. For those who have lost identification, relief officers could issue temporary IDs that the banks could honour. Replacement credit and debit cards could be shipped in from outside, it they wanted to, within a couple of days.

Opening shortly after a disaster is a huge gamble for banks. In San Francisco it was only possible by a rapidly formed partnership between all banks and the mint. I don’t know how they managed that, because the mint was one of the first buildings to be burnt down. The banks first produced withdrawal chits payable in gold coin by the mint.

Straight after a disaster, paper money within the disaster zone becomes immediately worthless. It can’t purchase food, clothing, housing. It’s only outside the disaster zone that paper money has value.

Over time, forgotten funds (eg. in term deposits) could be made available to people who don’t even realise that they have the money, or in the case of deaths have inherited the money. For example, CHESS and the ATO keep track of my shares and interest-earning bank deposits without any need for input from me.

—-

I see the need for three independent shut-offs for natural gas.

—-

The Japanese after their tsunami relied on rapid DNA identification of body parts for calculating the death toll, and presumably for handling inheritance. The total number of confirmed dead remained lower than the number of “missing, presumed dead”.

—-

Given that brick is the only common building material to survive intense fire, and that brick and timber are the two worst materials for earthquake damage, I can’t help wondering.

Is there a way to improve the fire resistance of concrete? Concrete in fires first fails by differential expansion – spalling – and then later by high temperature weakening of the steel reinforcement. Some plasticisers for concrete are lignin, which doesn’t seem like a particularly fireproof material. Is high strength concrete worse for fire resistance, or better?

Surely the incorporation of ceramic fibres to stop tension failures would help as a protection against spalling, asbestos fibres perhaps but not necessarily asbestos – blast furnace slag and fly ash are both ceramics. Selection of aggregate to minimise differential expansion – is it possible?

Then there’s the chemical reaction in concrete as calcium hydroxide is converted into calcium carbonate – a chemical reaction greatly speeded up in a fire, but how does that reaction affect fire resistance?

Is there recent work on improving the fire-resistance of concrete?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/11/2019 08:12:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1459040
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

mollwollfumble said:


sarahs mum said:

Also..fire is fickle. One of my friends told me that her house rough hewn vertical board shack, did not burn down in the 67 fire whereas the brick houses in the street did.

Yes and no. Small fires and the edges of fire zones are fickle. But when the fire spreads over a full 300 city blocks you can be sure that every building within the fire’s perimeter gets razed.

party_pants said:

And that wouldn’t work today.

The data is held and backed up electronically far away from the disaster area. If you can re-establish comms by satellite or whatever you’ve still got your whole banking system.

I was wondering about that.

I don’t see either identification or data backup as as great a problem as whether the banks decide to play hardball (like some insurance companies). The bank that holds on longest after the disaster before opening its doors will come out with the greatest competitive advantage in the short term as customers rash the first banks open. A run on the bank is often used as a good excuse for closing the bank doors (like stock market). The inability to open the bank vault can also be used as an excuse for not opening.

Take identification for example. For those who have lost identification, relief officers could issue temporary IDs that the banks could honour. Replacement credit and debit cards could be shipped in from outside, it they wanted to, within a couple of days.

Opening shortly after a disaster is a huge gamble for banks. In San Francisco it was only possible by a rapidly formed partnership between all banks and the mint. I don’t know how they managed that, because the mint was one of the first buildings to be burnt down. The banks first produced withdrawal chits payable in gold coin by the mint.

Straight after a disaster, paper money within the disaster zone becomes immediately worthless. It can’t purchase food, clothing, housing. It’s only outside the disaster zone that paper money has value.

Over time, forgotten funds (eg. in term deposits) could be made available to people who don’t even realise that they have the money, or in the case of deaths have inherited the money. For example, CHESS and the ATO keep track of my shares and interest-earning bank deposits without any need for input from me.

—-

I see the need for three independent shut-offs for natural gas.

—-

The Japanese after their tsunami relied on rapid DNA identification of body parts for calculating the death toll, and presumably for handling inheritance. The total number of confirmed dead remained lower than the number of “missing, presumed dead”.

—-

Given that brick is the only common building material to survive intense fire, and that brick and timber are the two worst materials for earthquake damage, I can’t help wondering.

Is there a way to improve the fire resistance of concrete? Concrete in fires first fails by differential expansion – spalling – and then later by high temperature weakening of the steel reinforcement. Some plasticisers for concrete are lignin, which doesn’t seem like a particularly fireproof material. Is high strength concrete worse for fire resistance, or better?

Surely the incorporation of ceramic fibres to stop tension failures would help as a protection against spalling, asbestos fibres perhaps but not necessarily asbestos – blast furnace slag and fly ash are both ceramics. Selection of aggregate to minimise differential expansion – is it possible?

Then there’s the chemical reaction in concrete as calcium hydroxide is converted into calcium carbonate – a chemical reaction greatly speeded up in a fire, but how does that reaction affect fire resistance?

Is there recent work on improving the fire-resistance of concrete?

Cannabis fibre is one way that is being trialled.
Borax is something I haven’t heard of being used.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/11/2019 12:03:58
From: Arts
ID: 1459090
Subject: re: San Francisco earthquake 1906 - Lessons learnt

dv said:


Arts said:

almost everyone’s ID is on their phone now…

I wonder whether police would accept a driver’s licence that was on a phone

wonder no more…

https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/campaign/nsw-digital-driver-licence?amp%3Butm_campaign=digital%20drivers%20licence&%3Butm_medium=website&fbclid=IwAR0xtViIhyHcsWjUtaJZHb7C2t08zxssD0MqwQbNr1MqSB4G2xebssZyaW4&utm_source=nsw%20police

Reply Quote