What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Watching mythbusters.
  Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.

• Thinking about the impossibility of getting certain native peoples interested in farming.
  Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Watching mythbusters.
  Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.

• Thinking about the impossibility of getting certain native peoples interested in farming.
  Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

I wouldn’t call any of those ridiculous.

The Rev Dodgson said:

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Watching mythbusters.
  Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.

• Thinking about the impossibility of getting certain native peoples interested in farming.
  Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

I wouldn’t call any of those ridiculous.

Well the KH-11 was launched 43 years ago, I’m sure the ones they have now can see the Great Wall of Mexico from space.

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Watching mythbusters.
  Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.

• Thinking about the impossibility of getting certain native peoples interested in farming.
  Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

Yes it would be possible to use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground.

Computers do the work of searching for human IR signatures amongst all the data and report their positions

Place more IDs on protected animals.

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

I’ll have a stab at these two.

For the first it is a question is whether the information can be processed and used in real time. If there is any sort of significant time delay then the information might be useless by the time it is received and the poachers might already have made a kill and be miles away. maybe a system using tethered balloons and a mobile phone type data link might work better, and cheaper.

For the last, I think you will find that the source of the silt in these rivers system which gave rise to early civilisations ran from mountains which are relatively young geologically speaking, so they carry richer silts. Most of Australia is old and weathered, so it might not carry the same abundance down from the mountains to the flood plains.

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Watching mythbusters.
  Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.

• Thinking about the impossibility of getting certain native peoples interested in farming.
  Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

Yes it would be possible to use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground.

Computers do the work of searching for human IR signatures amongst all the data and report their positions

Place more IDs on protected animals.

If the satellites know the positions of the herds of protected animals it would make looking for the poachers easier.

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

I’ll have a stab at these two.

For the first it is a question is whether the information can be processed and used in real time. If there is any sort of significant time delay then the information might be useless by the time it is received and the poachers might already have made a kill and be miles away. maybe a system using tethered balloons and a mobile phone type data link might work better, and cheaper.

For the last, I think you will find that the source of the silt in these rivers system which gave rise to early civilisations ran from mountains which are relatively young geologically speaking, so they carry richer silts. Most of Australia is old and weathered, so it might not carry the same abundance down from the mountains to the flood plains.

One does need mountains to erode to create silt. We call some of our hills mountains and yes they are still eroding but there isn’t a lot of that left.

could you have a preposterous thought, give me opportunity to use that word in a sentence

only time gets used is in my internal monologue, turned to theatric dialogue, yeah’s like the muppet show in there

“Watching mythbusters.
Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.”

Why does a helmet need to be inconspicuous?

And dont get me started on “Pointing out the bleeding obvious” Busters.

One the subject of helmets, it is not only the risk of skull fracture or penetration by foreign objects that one needs to be careful about. Significant brain injuries can arise from the brain moving about violently inside the skull. A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter if it allows the force of the blow to be transferred to the brain and not absorbed by the helmet. Perhaps thicker helmets with more padding to absorb energy might be better than thinner helmets with less.

This is based on the studies of brain injuries to players in American football that use hard but tight-fitting helmets as battering rams.

You could attach location and life sign beacons to endangered animals, they can then be tracked via satellite and if the life sign signal stops you are aware they are dead and could perhaps send people to investigate. Huge effort though and might be detrimental to the animals in question

party_pants said:

One the subject of helmets, it is not only the risk of skull fracture or penetration by foreign objects that one needs to be careful about. Significant brain injuries can arise from the brain moving about violently inside the skull. A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter if it allows the force of the blow to be transferred to the brain and not absorbed by the helmet. Perhaps thicker helmets with more padding to absorb energy might be better than thinner helmets with less.

This is based on the studies of brain injuries to players in American football that use hard but tight-fitting helmets as battering rams.

i’d expect your primary helmet is your cranium, a hardened aspect of a feature-packed bulbous extrusion above the shoulders connected to the rest of the body-vehicle via the neck/spine. Boasting mixed radar systems, passive and active. Reportedly it’s to protect the CNS from impacts that could seriously reduce an example creatures chances of breeding, or related supporting offspring. The bulb apparently is a wetware supercomputer, with an impressive array of tools

the genius of the apparatus is evident in the ease with which the species apprehends basic physics like .5M(V^2) = KE, especially the exponentiated magic (V^2)

air bags on the helmets

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

What I read or watch often prompts me to ridiculous thoughts.

• Reading about the KH-11 Kennen spy satellites
  These spy satellites are capable of “seeing a bicycle parked in your driveway”. The also have infrared capability. Why not use spy satellites to spot poachers on the ground? The IR from a car at night in an open savannah would stand out like a beacon against the background. They could even see through light cloud or light forest. If that’s too expensive, use it to count large endangered animals at night. One hotspot equals one animal.

• Thinking more about farming.
  The early farming cultures of The Nile, Fertile crescent, Indus, Ganges and Eastern China from circa 10,000 years ago all have low-lying land with regular yearly floods that brings down fertile soil. So does top end Australia. Could the Gulf of Carpentaria become Australia’s bread basket?

I’ll have a stab at these two.

For the first it is a question is whether the information can be processed and used in real time. If there is any sort of significant time delay then the information might be useless by the time it is received and the poachers might already have made a kill and be miles away. maybe a system using tethered balloons and a mobile phone type data link might work better, and cheaper.

For the last, I think you will find that the source of the silt in these rivers system which gave rise to early civilisations ran from mountains which are relatively young geologically speaking, so they carry richer silts. Most of Australia is old and weathered, so it might not carry the same abundance down from the mountains to the flood plains.

Thank you p_p.

For the first, I think part of the problem is that thermal infrared radiation contains very little energy. Long viewing times are pretty well out of the question for a satellite moving at 7.8 km/s. So the sensors have to be large. The total energy emitted is proportional to the temperature to the power 4. So visible light (about 6,000 Kelvin) contains a hundred thousand times as much energy as body heat (about 38 Celsius, 311 Kelvin). Meteorological satellites already observe colder temperatures than that (down to 220 Kelvin). Sensor elements would have to be relatively large, but they have to be large anyway because of cosmic rays, and this limits megapixel size. It’s have to be something of a juggling act. Spotting brushfires would be easier, (the coldest bushfires have temperatures around 530 to 600 Kelvin) but the search area would be vast. Vehicle temperatures seldom exceed 70 Celsius. I think there would be something of a juggling act getting sensor size, resolution, scanning speed all balanced.

Which endangered animals? Would have to be large, and to some extent localised, Amur leopards would be a tough ask because of their scarcity and wide range. I think we can discount whales as a possibility, but dolphins inshore and in rivers may just be possible. All types of seals when on land. The usual African megafauna of course. The bovids (cattle and antelopes). Bears of all kinds. Search and rescue, lost aircraft.

As for tagging animals, rhino horn has been replaced by pangolin scales in Chinese medicine. Poaching of pangolins has become a huge problem, which made me wonder if attaching RFID tags to pangolin scales would be a useful trick. As a shipment of pangolin scales can contain scales from hundreds if not thousands of animals, attaching an RFID tag to even a small percentage of pangolins would be a help to authorities, but not to poachers because RFID only works at close range.

As pointed out earlier in this thread this technology is probably already being used on the US-Mexican border.

——-

For the last, I should have thought of that. So, plenty of water in the flood season, but poor soils. Plants don’t actually rely on soils for their carbon, so irrigation with nitrogen and phosphorus fertiliser remains a possibility. One crop per year. Irrigation channels to channel water to where it is needed and for transporting crops by water to where they are needed.

From: gaghalfrunt
ID: 1464230
Subject: re: Some ridiculous thoughts

“Watching mythbusters.
Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.”

Why does a helmet need to be inconspicuous?

And don’t get me started on “Pointing out the bleeding obvious” Busters.

——

“It doesn’t have to be very obvious to be too obvious for” mollwollfumble. I didn’t think of that.

People for whom this wouldn’t help. Soldiers, car racers, motorbike riders – can’t take shortcuts there.

People for whom this may help.
Cavers, underground council workers, opal miners, factory workers – collision speed less than 1.5 metres per second, conventional helmets are so darn cumbersome.
Car drivers and passengers, stuntmen, soccer, tennis, wrestlers, martial arts, all sorts of spectator sports, policemen – where appearance matters.
Skateboard, scooter, roller blades, roller skates – appearance matters for kids.
Pilots of ultralights, skydivers, base jumpers.
Construction workers, rescuers – what they have now may suffice, but perhaps go one better.
People who already have a skull or brain injury, and don’t want it to be too conspicuous.

transition said:

party_pants said:

One the subject of helmets, it is not only the risk of skull fracture or penetration by foreign objects that one needs to be careful about. Significant brain injuries can arise from the brain moving about violently inside the skull. A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter if it allows the force of the blow to be transferred to the brain and not absorbed by the helmet. Perhaps thicker helmets with more padding to absorb energy might be better than thinner helmets with less.

This is based on the studies of brain injuries to players in American football that use hard but tight-fitting helmets as battering rams.

i’d expect your primary helmet is your cranium, a hardened aspect of a feature-packed bulbous extrusion above the shoulders connected to the rest of the body-vehicle via the neck/spine. Boasting mixed radar systems, passive and active. Reportedly it’s to protect the CNS from impacts that could seriously reduce an example creatures chances of breeding, or related supporting offspring. The bulb apparently is a wetware supercomputer, with an impressive array of tools

the genius of the apparatus is evident in the ease with which the species apprehends basic physics like .5M(V^2) = KE, especially the exponentiated magic (V^2)

> A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter

Yes indeed. A hard outer coat to protect the skull from sharp objects and a soft inner later to cushion the brain against rapid accelerations.

mollwollfumble said:

From: gaghalfrunt
ID: 1464230
Subject: re: Some ridiculous thoughts

“Watching mythbusters.
Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.”

Why does a helmet need to be inconspicuous?

And don’t get me started on “Pointing out the bleeding obvious” Busters.

——

“It doesn’t have to be very obvious to be too obvious for” mollwollfumble. I didn’t think of that.

People for whom this wouldn’t help. Soldiers, car racers, motorbike riders – can’t take shortcuts there.

People for whom this may help.
Cavers, underground council workers, opal miners, factory workers – collision speed less than 1.5 metres per second, conventional helmets are so darn cumbersome.
Car drivers and passengers, stuntmen, soccer, tennis, wrestlers, martial arts, all sorts of spectator sports, policemen – where appearance matters.
Skateboard, scooter, roller blades, roller skates – appearance matters for kids.
Pilots of ultralights, skydivers, base jumpers.
Construction workers, rescuers – what they have now may suffice, but perhaps go one better.
People who already have a skull or brain injury, and don’t want it to be too conspicuous.

transition said:

party_pants said:

One the subject of helmets, it is not only the risk of skull fracture or penetration by foreign objects that one needs to be careful about. Significant brain injuries can arise from the brain moving about violently inside the skull. A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter if it allows the force of the blow to be transferred to the brain and not absorbed by the helmet. Perhaps thicker helmets with more padding to absorb energy might be better than thinner helmets with less.

This is based on the studies of brain injuries to players in American football that use hard but tight-fitting helmets as battering rams.

i’d expect your primary helmet is your cranium, a hardened aspect of a feature-packed bulbous extrusion above the shoulders connected to the rest of the body-vehicle via the neck/spine. Boasting mixed radar systems, passive and active. Reportedly it’s to protect the CNS from impacts that could seriously reduce an example creatures chances of breeding, or related supporting offspring. The bulb apparently is a wetware supercomputer, with an impressive array of tools

the genius of the apparatus is evident in the ease with which the species apprehends basic physics like .5M(V^2) = KE, especially the exponentiated magic (V^2)

> A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter

Yes indeed. A hard outer coat to protect the skull from sharp objects and a soft inner later to cushion the brain against rapid accelerations.

Morning all.
At the power house we used bump caps in cramped areas where major impacts were very unlikely but bumps & cuts were quite possible.
They also came like this

mollwollfumble said:

From: gaghalfrunt
ID: 1464230
Subject: re: Some ridiculous thoughts

“Watching mythbusters.
Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.”

Why does a helmet need to be inconspicuous?

And don’t get me started on “Pointing out the bleeding obvious” Busters.

——

“It doesn’t have to be very obvious to be too obvious for” mollwollfumble. I didn’t think of that.

People for whom this wouldn’t help. Soldiers, car racers, motorbike riders – can’t take shortcuts there.

People for whom this may help.
Cavers, underground council workers, opal miners, factory workers – collision speed less than 1.5 metres per second, conventional helmets are so darn cumbersome.
Car drivers and passengers, stuntmen, soccer, tennis, wrestlers, martial arts, all sorts of spectator sports, policemen – where appearance matters.
Skateboard, scooter, roller blades, roller skates – appearance matters for kids.
Pilots of ultralights, skydivers, base jumpers.
Construction workers, rescuers – what they have now may suffice, but perhaps go one better.
People who already have a skull or brain injury, and don’t want it to be too conspicuous.

transition said:

party_pants said:

One the subject of helmets, it is not only the risk of skull fracture or penetration by foreign objects that one needs to be careful about. Significant brain injuries can arise from the brain moving about violently inside the skull. A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter if it allows the force of the blow to be transferred to the brain and not absorbed by the helmet. Perhaps thicker helmets with more padding to absorb energy might be better than thinner helmets with less.

This is based on the studies of brain injuries to players in American football that use hard but tight-fitting helmets as battering rams.

i’d expect your primary helmet is your cranium, a hardened aspect of a feature-packed bulbous extrusion above the shoulders connected to the rest of the body-vehicle via the neck/spine. Boasting mixed radar systems, passive and active. Reportedly it’s to protect the CNS from impacts that could seriously reduce an example creatures chances of breeding, or related supporting offspring. The bulb apparently is a wetware supercomputer, with an impressive array of tools

the genius of the apparatus is evident in the ease with which the species apprehends basic physics like .5M(V^2) = KE, especially the exponentiated magic (V^2)

> A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter

Yes indeed. A hard outer coat to protect the skull from sharp objects and a soft inner later to cushion the brain against rapid accelerations.

And cyclists of course. Probably the highest sales.

mollwollfumble said:

mollwollfumble said:

From: gaghalfrunt
ID: 1464230
Subject: re: Some ridiculous thoughts

“Watching mythbusters.
Could there be such a thing as an inconspicuous helmet? It would need to be thinner than a normal helmet, with a thin outer layer (to protect the skull from sharp objects), and a softish inner layer (to protect the brain from blunt force trauma). On the very outside could be a wig or latex mask for inconspicuousness.”

Why does a helmet need to be inconspicuous?

And don’t get me started on “Pointing out the bleeding obvious” Busters.

——

“It doesn’t have to be very obvious to be too obvious for” mollwollfumble. I didn’t think of that.

People for whom this wouldn’t help. Soldiers, car racers, motorbike riders – can’t take shortcuts there.

People for whom this may help.
Cavers, underground council workers, opal miners, factory workers – collision speed less than 1.5 metres per second, conventional helmets are so darn cumbersome.
Car drivers and passengers, stuntmen, soccer, tennis, wrestlers, martial arts, all sorts of spectator sports, policemen – where appearance matters.
Skateboard, scooter, roller blades, roller skates – appearance matters for kids.
Pilots of ultralights, skydivers, base jumpers.
Construction workers, rescuers – what they have now may suffice, but perhaps go one better.
People who already have a skull or brain injury, and don’t want it to be too conspicuous.

transition said:

i’d expect your primary helmet is your cranium, a hardened aspect of a feature-packed bulbous extrusion above the shoulders connected to the rest of the body-vehicle via the neck/spine. Boasting mixed radar systems, passive and active. Reportedly it’s to protect the CNS from impacts that could seriously reduce an example creatures chances of breeding, or related supporting offspring. The bulb apparently is a wetware supercomputer, with an impressive array of tools

the genius of the apparatus is evident in the ease with which the species apprehends basic physics like .5M(V^2) = KE, especially the exponentiated magic (V^2)

> A hard and thin helmet might prevent the first type of injury but might be worse for the latter

Yes indeed. A hard outer coat to protect the skull from sharp objects and a soft inner later to cushion the brain against rapid accelerations.

And cyclists of course. Probably the highest sales.

I’m not sure of why you made the distinction between motorcyclists and cyclists.

>Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

tends to incline, or make more likely, or make less unlikely, you could generalize though all genes are about farming something, depending how you define farming

transition said:

>Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

tends to incline, or make more likely, or make less unlikely, you could generalize though all genes are about farming something, depending how you define farming

In some ways society relies upon people wanting, and being able, to do particular jobs. Of course some people aren’t doing the jobs they want but they are at least usually doing a job acceptable to themselves. So you need people who want to be farmers, doctors, builders, etc. and people who don’t mind working in retail, hospitality, etc. If you had a situation in your society where no one wanted to be a farmer then, particularly in small enclosed societies, you won’t have any farmers. Is personal preference, in regards to profession, genetic? Often people will follow their parents into a particular profession but that isn’t necessarily because they are genetically predisosed to it, it is more akin to a tradition. If your society values hunters, warriors, foragers, etc. then people will want these high profile roles and no one wants to be the one who just says, I’m going to just stay right here and wait for this stuff to grow – especially if the society is nomadic and the rest of them leave while you stay and wait. So, rather than a gene, you could say that farming is a meme in the original sense of the word…

furious said:

transition said:

>Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

tends to incline, or make more likely, or make less unlikely, you could generalize though all genes are about farming something, depending how you define farming

In some ways society relies upon people wanting, and being able, to do particular jobs. Of course some people aren’t doing the jobs they want but they are at least usually doing a job acceptable to themselves. So you need people who want to be farmers, doctors, builders, etc. and people who don’t mind working in retail, hospitality, etc. If you had a situation in your society where no one wanted to be a farmer then, particularly in small enclosed societies, you won’t have any farmers. Is personal preference, in regards to profession, genetic? Often people will follow their parents into a particular profession but that isn’t necessarily because they are genetically predisosed to it, it is more akin to a tradition. If your society values hunters, warriors, foragers, etc. then people will want these high profile roles and no one wants to be the one who just says, I’m going to just stay right here and wait for this stuff to grow – especially if the society is nomadic and the rest of them leave while you stay and wait. So, rather than a gene, you could say that farming is a meme in the original sense of the word…

Could be both

+ epigenetics

furious said:

transition said:

>Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

tends to incline, or make more likely, or make less unlikely, you could generalize though all genes are about farming something, depending how you define farming

In some ways society relies upon people wanting, and being able, to do particular jobs. Of course some people aren’t doing the jobs they want but they are at least usually doing a job acceptable to themselves. So you need people who want to be farmers, doctors, builders, etc. and people who don’t mind working in retail, hospitality, etc. If you had a situation in your society where no one wanted to be a farmer then, particularly in small enclosed societies, you won’t have any farmers. Is personal preference, in regards to profession, genetic? Often people will follow their parents into a particular profession but that isn’t necessarily because they are genetically predisosed to it, it is more akin to a tradition. If your society values hunters, warriors, foragers, etc. then people will want these high profile roles and no one wants to be the one who just says, I’m going to just stay right here and wait for this stuff to grow – especially if the society is nomadic and the rest of them leave while you stay and wait. So, rather than a gene, you could say that farming is a meme in the original sense of the word…

one thing money does, the conversional magic, is enables a broad scope of instrumental desires

instrumental desires are like i’ve got to go to work, do a job I don’t like that much (still you have to have some desire to do it), to go on that holiday to Queensland I really do want (the fundamental desire)

so the former desire is instrumental to achieving the latter, and money really is magic that way, the conversion attributes, potentials

previous I was getting at the point genes really do farm genes, almost by definition

Let me turn that first one around a little.

We need to protect our reefs and sovereign waters from illegal fishing, catch people smugglers, etc. Yet we still aircraft conducting patrols, most of them manned.

Why don’t we use satellites? After all, it is a matter of national security and we know that various militaries use satellites to track warships, etc. Indeed, Border Force is a quasi-military organisation…. but they don’t use them.

transition said:

furious said:

transition said:

>Could there be a gene for farming? Or to be more specific a gene for farming plants.

tends to incline, or make more likely, or make less unlikely, you could generalize though all genes are about farming something, depending how you define farming

In some ways society relies upon people wanting, and being able, to do particular jobs. Of course some people aren’t doing the jobs they want but they are at least usually doing a job acceptable to themselves. So you need people who want to be farmers, doctors, builders, etc. and people who don’t mind working in retail, hospitality, etc. If you had a situation in your society where no one wanted to be a farmer then, particularly in small enclosed societies, you won’t have any farmers. Is personal preference, in regards to profession, genetic? Often people will follow their parents into a particular profession but that isn’t necessarily because they are genetically predisosed to it, it is more akin to a tradition. If your society values hunters, warriors, foragers, etc. then people will want these high profile roles and no one wants to be the one who just says, I’m going to just stay right here and wait for this stuff to grow – especially if the society is nomadic and the rest of them leave while you stay and wait. So, rather than a gene, you could say that farming is a meme in the original sense of the word…

one thing money does, the conversional magic, is enables a broad scope of instrumental desires

instrumental desires are like i’ve got to go to work, do a job I don’t like that much (still you have to have some desire to do it), to go on that holiday to Queensland I really do want (the fundamental desire)

so the former desire is instrumental to achieving the latter, and money really is magic that way, the conversion attributes, potentials

previous I was getting at the point genes really do farm genes, almost by definition

some of that above may sound unrelated, derailed even

but surplus grain (for example) to carry over is very much like money, in the bank, highly tradable, and dividable

>previous I was getting at the point genes really do farm genes, almost by definition

I guess that’s a reference to phylogeny, really, and ontogeny

Obviousman said:

Let me turn that first one around a little.

We need to protect our reefs and sovereign waters from illegal fishing, catch people smugglers, etc. Yet we still aircraft conducting patrols, most of them manned.

Why don’t we use satellites? After all, it is a matter of national security and we know that various militaries use satellites to track warships, etc. Indeed, Border Force is a quasi-military organisation…. but they don’t use them.

Yes. Satellites with high powered lasers. Or nukes…

mollwollfumble said:

Which endangered animals? Would have to be large, and to some extent localised, Amur leopards would be a tough ask because of their scarcity and wide range. I think we can discount whales as a possibility, but dolphins inshore and in rivers may just be possible. All types of seals when on land. The usual African megafauna of course. The bovids (cattle and antelopes). Bears of all kinds. Search and rescue, lost aircraft.

As for tagging animals, rhino horn has been replaced by pangolin scales in Chinese medicine. Poaching of pangolins has become a huge problem, which made me wonder if attaching RFID tags to pangolin scales would be a useful trick. As a shipment of pangolin scales can contain scales from hundreds if not thousands of animals, attaching an RFID tag to even a small percentage of pangolins would be a help to authorities, but not to poachers because RFID only works at close range.

As pointed out earlier in this thread this technology is probably already being used on the US-Mexican border.

I think I misread your initial statement. You mentioned counting endangered animals, while I was thinking about the answer I got into the line of protecting endangered animals. My solution is more along the lines of using technology to detect and intercept any humans (poachers) inside a declared national park or wildlife sanctuary who do not have good reason to be there, especially under cover of darkness. Using IR to detect their vehicles and so on. Not actually tracking and monitoring individual animals as such. Possibly radar would work too.

while waiting for chips to cook, nearly ready to be served

https://www.etymonline.com/word/farm
“c. 1300, “fixed payment (usually in exchange for taxes collected, etc.), fixed rent,” from Old French ferme “a rent, lease” (13c.), from Medieval Latin firma “fixed payment,” from Latin firmare “to fix, settle, confirm, strengthen,” from firmus “strong; stable,” figuratively “constant, trusty” (from suffixed form of PIE root *dher- “to hold firmly, support”).

Sense of “tract of leased land” is first recorded early 14c.; that of “cultivated land” (leased or not) is 1520s. A word of confused history, but there is agreement that “the purely agricultural sense is comparatively modern” . There is a set of Old English words that appear to be related in sound and sense; if these, too, are from Latin it would be a very early borrowing. Some books strenuously defend a theory that the Anglo-Saxon words are original (perhaps related to feorh “life”)….”

https://www.etymonline.com/word/farming#etymonline_v_33035
“1590s, “action of farming out, practice of letting or leasing taxes, etc., for collection,” verbal noun from farm (v.). Meaning “business of cultivating land, husbandry” is attested by 1733…”

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which endangered animals? Would have to be large, and to some extent localised, Amur leopards would be a tough ask because of their scarcity and wide range. I think we can discount whales as a possibility, but dolphins inshore and in rivers may just be possible. All types of seals when on land. The usual African megafauna of course. The bovids (cattle and antelopes). Bears of all kinds. Search and rescue, lost aircraft.

As for tagging animals, rhino horn has been replaced by pangolin scales in Chinese medicine. Poaching of pangolins has become a huge problem, which made me wonder if attaching RFID tags to pangolin scales would be a useful trick. As a shipment of pangolin scales can contain scales from hundreds if not thousands of animals, attaching an RFID tag to even a small percentage of pangolins would be a help to authorities, but not to poachers because RFID only works at close range.

As pointed out earlier in this thread this technology is probably already being used on the US-Mexican border.

I think I misread your initial statement. You mentioned counting endangered animals, while I was thinking about the answer I got into the line of protecting endangered animals. My solution is more along the lines of using technology to detect and intercept any humans (poachers) inside a declared national park or wildlife sanctuary who do not have good reason to be there, especially under cover of darkness. Using IR to detect their vehicles and so on. Not actually tracking and monitoring individual animals as such. Possibly radar would work too.

no no no no no. You didn’t misread. That’s what i meant initially.

Radar from space? I don’t see why not.

mollwollfumble said:

Radar from space? I don’t see why not.

They have existed for some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A

Obviousman said:

mollwollfumble said:

Radar from space? I don’t see why not.

They have existed for some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A

A new ridiculous thought.

Given that Australia’s soils are almost all poor, could we mine good soil from under the ocean? A type of ocean floor material called “ooze” comes to mind, rich in carbon and calcium and probably rich in nitrogen and sulphur as well. https://www.britannica.com/science/ooze#ref59832 Ooze is the remains of small sea creatures, such as pteropods, radiolarians, diatoms, foraminifera. Wash out the salt of course.

mollwollfumble said:

Obviousman said:

mollwollfumble said:

Radar from space? I don’t see why not.

They have existed for some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-A

A new ridiculous thought.

Given that Australia’s soils are almost all poor, could we mine good soil from under the ocean? A type of ocean floor material called “ooze” comes to mind, rich in carbon and calcium and probably rich in nitrogen and sulphur as well. https://www.britannica.com/science/ooze#ref59832 Ooze is the remains of small sea creatures, such as pteropods, radiolarians, diatoms, foraminifera. Wash out the salt of course.

Another ridiculous thought. If the Great Barrier Reef stops shipping, then it must allow walking, if my legs are long enough.

So would it be possible to walk some 300 km or so along the Great Barrier Reef in 10 metre long stilts without drowning?
The reef itself is some 1,500 km long and some of the shipping channels are more than 300 km apart.

Speaking of using radar to map the ground, I found this of interest.

Professor Simon and synthetic aperture radar

mollwollfumble said:

party_pants said:

mollwollfumble said:

Which endangered animals? Would have to be large, and to some extent localised, Amur leopards would be a tough ask because of their scarcity and wide range. I think we can discount whales as a possibility, but dolphins inshore and in rivers may just be possible. All types of seals when on land. The usual African megafauna of course. The bovids (cattle and antelopes). Bears of all kinds. Search and rescue, lost aircraft.

As for tagging animals, rhino horn has been replaced by pangolin scales in Chinese medicine. Poaching of pangolins has become a huge problem, which made me wonder if attaching RFID tags to pangolin scales would be a useful trick. As a shipment of pangolin scales can contain scales from hundreds if not thousands of animals, attaching an RFID tag to even a small percentage of pangolins would be a help to authorities, but not to poachers because RFID only works at close range.

As pointed out earlier in this thread this technology is probably already being used on the US-Mexican border.

I think I misread your initial statement. You mentioned counting endangered animals, while I was thinking about the answer I got into the line of protecting endangered animals. My solution is more along the lines of using technology to detect and intercept any humans (poachers) inside a declared national park or wildlife sanctuary who do not have good reason to be there, especially under cover of darkness. Using IR to detect their vehicles and so on. Not actually tracking and monitoring individual animals as such. Possibly radar would work too.

no no no no no. You didn’t misread. That’s what i meant initially.

Radar from space? I don’t see why not.

No. Radar from tethered balloons or fixed tower masts in the protected wildlife area.

Spiny Norman said:

Speaking of using radar to map the ground, I found this of interest.

Professor Simon and synthetic aperture radar

I’m watching it now.

Why do i keep thinking ‘Adam Savage in twenty years time’?