>>From: PermeateFree
ID: 1466463
Subject: re: November chat

sarahs mum said:

ChrispenEvan said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/ecoterrorism-maybe-we-should-start-with-ringing-the-doorbell-of-a-mining-magnates-house First dog. Yeah.

Am pleased to see the rhetoric against climate change heating up, as literally vast numbers of people are required to forcibly demand action be taken, and very soon. Unfortunately there is no other way.

———————-

But the IPCC’s newer models suggest that the situation is even worse than previously thought. Based on increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, those new climate models—presented at a press conference in Paris in late September—reveal the latest findings of the IPCC’s sixth assessment report now underway.

The models now show that we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century if carbon emissions continue unabated, two degrees higher than last year’s models. This means the earth is far more sensitive to atmospheric carbon than previously believed.

This suggests that the climate models we’ve been using are not too alarmist; they are consistently too conservative, and we have only recently understood how bad the situation really is.

More gloom here..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwygg/the-collapse-of-civilization-may-have-already-begun

sarahs mum said:

>>From: PermeateFree
ID: 1466463
Subject: re: November chat

sarahs mum said:

ChrispenEvan said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/ecoterrorism-maybe-we-should-start-with-ringing-the-doorbell-of-a-mining-magnates-house First dog. Yeah.

Am pleased to see the rhetoric against climate change heating up, as literally vast numbers of people are required to forcibly demand action be taken, and very soon. Unfortunately there is no other way.

———————-

But the IPCC’s newer models suggest that the situation is even worse than previously thought. Based on increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, those new climate models—presented at a press conference in Paris in late September—reveal the latest findings of the IPCC’s sixth assessment report now underway.

The models now show that we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century if carbon emissions continue unabated, two degrees higher than last year’s models. This means the earth is far more sensitive to atmospheric carbon than previously believed.

This suggests that the climate models we’ve been using are not too alarmist; they are consistently too conservative, and we have only recently understood how bad the situation really is.

More gloom here..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwygg/the-collapse-of-civilization-may-have-already-begun

I really don’t understand how people can be so complacent about global warming. I hear and see scientific evidence virtually every day from people whose education and training is to study the problems we are experiencing and of the imminent dangers we are facing, yet the global warming deniers (people like The Observer) have convinced many politicians and others, especially the LNP members that it is a load of rubbish. These people are criminals, they are thieves and worse are stealing the lives of your children and grandchildren, plus destroying the viability of the planet and all its inhabitants. IMO these people should be removed from society because they are so very dangerous.

There is a new set of denier distortions hitting the media, which is very much in line with Ian Plimer’s argument that as there have major temperature variations before, therefore there is nothing to worry about. This time I heard on the Amanda Vandstone Radio National program, it is being directed at so called Doomsday Pessimist Thoughts and going way back in history at the sorts of things people had prophesied would end in catastrophe. However the commentator neglected to mention that today’s prophecies are based on scientific fact and not religious beliefs and opinions of years ago when science as we now know it, was not even founded. Apparently, all the global warming pessimists including David Attenborough and all Biologists have caveman brains incapable of seeing a positive way forward and trapped in a doomsday scenario.

I am just so sick of these people who peddle the greedy self-interested line of the very wealthy, the fossil fuel industry and big business generally. Something has got to be done to stop these people!

Scomo et al are ramping up coal. But Scomo is also playing with the Christian Doomsday cultists. It does seem like he is willing it along.

sarahs mum said:

Scomo et al are ramping up coal. But Scomo is also playing with the Christian Doomsday cultists. It does seem like he is willing it along.

Talking of coal, they were discussing the latest new energy money making project, which will be hydrogen. The LNP are very keen on this form of energy as the costs are low and it is non-polluting, but unfortunately the means required to produce this gas requires considerable amounts of heat. Of course they are considering solar, wind-power and you guessed it coal. I wonder which will win, especially as they want to fast track this new industry and become the world major producer. These people are the pits.

PermeateFree said:

sarahs mum said:

Scomo et al are ramping up coal. But Scomo is also playing with the Christian Doomsday cultists. It does seem like he is willing it along.

Talking of coal, they were discussing the latest new energy money making project, which will be hydrogen. The LNP are very keen on this form of energy as the costs are low and it is non-polluting, but unfortunately the means required to produce this gas requires considerable amounts of heat. Of course they are considering solar, wind-power and you guessed it coal. I wonder which will win, especially as they want to fast track this new industry and become the world major producer. These people are the pits.

Remember, they believe that all this and everything on this earth has been put here by God for them to use as they see fit. That God will put it all back together for them after the fark it all up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzCqQKnF9Oo

The skies this morning never got blue.

roughbarked said:

Remember, they believe that all this and everything on this earth has been put here by God for them to use as they see fit.

That God will put it all back together for them after the fark it all up.

That was the first ship that ran aground between me and “THE Lord” )-:<

I was still a kid when I started pushing back
when THE BIG LIE declared that Man Had DOMINION Over Everything.

As I’ve come to say; “Humans are THE Most INHUMANE Creatures on Earth!”

..and that “CIVILIZED” Man was By FAR The Worst of the Lot!

“WE”‘re so damned smart we managed to fark things up in only a few generations
that had been revered and nurtured since one celled beings slithered out of the ooze.

sarahs mum said:

we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century

W
T
F

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:

we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century

W
T
F

After which comes the weekend.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:

we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century

W
T
F

After which comes the weekend.

LOL

sarahs mum said:

>>From: PermeateFree
ID: 1466463
Subject: re: November chat

sarahs mum said:

ChrispenEvan said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/ecoterrorism-maybe-we-should-start-with-ringing-the-doorbell-of-a-mining-magnates-house First dog. Yeah.

Am pleased to see the rhetoric against climate change heating up, as literally vast numbers of people are required to forcibly demand action be taken, and very soon. Unfortunately there is no other way.

———————-

But the IPCC’s newer models suggest that the situation is even worse than previously thought. Based on increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, those new climate models—presented at a press conference in Paris in late September—reveal the latest findings of the IPCC’s sixth assessment report now underway.

The models now show that we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century if carbon emissions continue unabated, two degrees higher than last year’s models. This means the earth is far more sensitive to atmospheric carbon than previously believed.

This suggests that the climate models we’ve been using are not too alarmist; they are consistently too conservative, and we have only recently understood how bad the situation really is.

More gloom here..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwygg/the-collapse-of-civilization-may-have-already-begun

that’s a good read, getting through that^, take a while

another coffee maybe

transition said:

sarahs mum said:

>>From: PermeateFree
ID: 1466463
Subject: re: November chat

sarahs mum said:

ChrispenEvan said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/ecoterrorism-maybe-we-should-start-with-ringing-the-doorbell-of-a-mining-magnates-house First dog. Yeah.

Am pleased to see the rhetoric against climate change heating up, as literally vast numbers of people are required to forcibly demand action be taken, and very soon. Unfortunately there is no other way.

———————-

But the IPCC’s newer models suggest that the situation is even worse than previously thought. Based on increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, those new climate models—presented at a press conference in Paris in late September—reveal the latest findings of the IPCC’s sixth assessment report now underway.

The models now show that we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century if carbon emissions continue unabated, two degrees higher than last year’s models. This means the earth is far more sensitive to atmospheric carbon than previously believed.

This suggests that the climate models we’ve been using are not too alarmist; they are consistently too conservative, and we have only recently understood how bad the situation really is.

More gloom here..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwygg/the-collapse-of-civilization-may-have-already-begun

that’s a good read, getting through that^, take a while

another coffee maybe

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), have done for well over half a century, or more depending how you see it

mostly everything else in nature is subject to seasons, and varied seasons, of course man is too, but not so of energy supply re coal, oil, and gas. Anyway it turns out this continuous Spring generates an illusion, all sorts of comforts that incline a dependency, world-wide addiction, a cultural addiction, the trajectory of which pushes up atmospheric carbon dioxide, and methane

the collective fart of industrialization and population growth is going to dissipate slowly, an inconvenient reality to humans that are in a hurry, their short lives made to seem shorter by being in a hurry

transition said:

transition said:

sarahs mum said:

>>From: PermeateFree
ID: 1466463
Subject: re: November chat

sarahs mum said:

ChrispenEvan said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/ecoterrorism-maybe-we-should-start-with-ringing-the-doorbell-of-a-mining-magnates-house First dog. Yeah.

Am pleased to see the rhetoric against climate change heating up, as literally vast numbers of people are required to forcibly demand action be taken, and very soon. Unfortunately there is no other way.

———————-

But the IPCC’s newer models suggest that the situation is even worse than previously thought. Based on increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, those new climate models—presented at a press conference in Paris in late September—reveal the latest findings of the IPCC’s sixth assessment report now underway.

The models now show that we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century if carbon emissions continue unabated, two degrees higher than last year’s models. This means the earth is far more sensitive to atmospheric carbon than previously believed.

This suggests that the climate models we’ve been using are not too alarmist; they are consistently too conservative, and we have only recently understood how bad the situation really is.

More gloom here..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwygg/the-collapse-of-civilization-may-have-already-begun

that’s a good read, getting through that^, take a while

another coffee maybe

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), have done for well over half a century, or more depending how you see it

mostly everything else in nature is subject to seasons, and varied seasons, of course man is too, but not so of energy supply re coal, oil, and gas. Anyway it turns out this continuous Spring generates an illusion, all sorts of comforts that incline a dependency, world-wide addiction, a cultural addiction, the trajectory of which pushes up atmospheric carbon dioxide, and methane

the collective fart of industrialization and population growth is going to dissipate slowly, an inconvenient reality to humans that are in a hurry, their short lives made to seem shorter by being in a hurry

i’d expect the optimum population of earth is nothing like what it will initially stabilize at, it’s going to be more costly than necessary

it matters none really to most humans if three people die and second, or five, or six, or seven

a mistake in my opinion, it should be a high priority to maintain lower population levels to maintain a lower death rate. Seems absurd, but consider most of human logic originates from an environment where the species was threatened with extinction, if that persists down the other end where the situation is exactly the opposite, then it becomes the threat

transition said:

transition said:

sarahs mum said:

>>From: PermeateFree
ID: 1466463
Subject: re: November chat

sarahs mum said:

ChrispenEvan said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/25/ecoterrorism-maybe-we-should-start-with-ringing-the-doorbell-of-a-mining-magnates-house First dog. Yeah.

Am pleased to see the rhetoric against climate change heating up, as literally vast numbers of people are required to forcibly demand action be taken, and very soon. Unfortunately there is no other way.

———————-

But the IPCC’s newer models suggest that the situation is even worse than previously thought. Based on increased supercomputing power and sharper representations of weather systems, those new climate models—presented at a press conference in Paris in late September—reveal the latest findings of the IPCC’s sixth assessment report now underway.

The models now show that we are heading for 7°C by the end of the century if carbon emissions continue unabated, two degrees higher than last year’s models. This means the earth is far more sensitive to atmospheric carbon than previously believed.

This suggests that the climate models we’ve been using are not too alarmist; they are consistently too conservative, and we have only recently understood how bad the situation really is.

More gloom here..

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xwygg/the-collapse-of-civilization-may-have-already-begun

that’s a good read, getting through that^, take a while

another coffee maybe

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), have done for well over half a century, or more depending how you see it

mostly everything else in nature is subject to seasons, and varied seasons, of course man is too, but not so of energy supply re coal, oil, and gas. Anyway it turns out this continuous Spring generates an illusion, all sorts of comforts that incline a dependency, world-wide addiction, a cultural addiction, the trajectory of which pushes up atmospheric carbon dioxide, and methane

the collective fart of industrialization and population growth is going to dissipate slowly, an inconvenient reality to humans that are in a hurry, their short lives made to seem shorter by being in a hurry

I like your perpetual spring theory.

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), 

—

Isn’t Autumn traditional harvest time?

Ian said:

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), 

—

Isn’t Autumn traditional harvest time?

But Spring is about promise.

From the vice.com piece -

Bendell, he said, is simply “wrong on the science and impacts: There is no credible evidence that we face ‘inevitable near-term collapse.’”

—

Well that’s ok then.

Ian said:

From the vice.com piece -

Bendell, he said, is simply “wrong on the science and impacts: There is no credible evidence that we face ‘inevitable near-term collapse.’”

—

Well that’s ok then.

Bendell is slammed negatively by the peer reviewers. But then he also has quite a few academics on his side.

“Australia has an average per capita footprint of 17 tonnes, followed by the US at 16.2 tonnes, and Canada at 15.6 tonnes. This is more than 3 times higher than the global average, which in 2017 was 4.8 tonnes per person. OECD

sarahs mum said:

“Australia has an average per capita footprint of 17 tonnes, followed by the US at 16.2 tonnes, and Canada at 15.6 tonnes. This is more than 3 times higher than the global average, which in 2017 was 4.8 tonnes per person. OECD

Interesting graph.

I was surprised NZ was so high; also surprising that UK is lower than France (both very low, even by European standards).

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

“Australia has an average per capita footprint of 17 tonnes, followed by the US at 16.2 tonnes, and Canada at 15.6 tonnes. This is more than 3 times higher than the global average, which in 2017 was 4.8 tonnes per person. OECD

Interesting graph.

I was surprised NZ was so high; also surprising that UK is lower than France (both very low, even by European standards).

I also was surprised Nz was that high. 48% agriculture emissions.

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/5584ad47-en/index.html

Now this chart surprises me.

sibeen said:

Now this chart surprises me.

we suppose there weren’t that many new coal burners in recent years

sarahs mum said:

Ian said:

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), 

—

Isn’t Autumn traditional harvest time?

But Spring is about promise.

a continuous Spring for our own kind, of fossil fuel energy supply, providing for the billions and growing, puts humans at war with climate.

transition said:

sarahs mum said:

Ian said:

the problem is humans generate a continuous Spring (abundance, for themselves, a success story of sorts), 

—

Isn’t Autumn traditional harvest time?

But Spring is about promise.

a continuous Spring for our own kind, of fossil fuel energy supply, providing for the billions and growing, puts humans at war with climate.

the seasons, the obliquity of the ecliptic, and day/night cycles, they embed order, clock it really in a very real sense, a lot of the ordering force (providing structure) is from the condensative aspects of energy gradients. And there is the pumping a hydrological cycle, atmospheric gasses a large part of that, and all the structure involved (including organic life) are essentially memory

polar ice are memory too

masses of coal and oil etc under the ground are memory, when you dig them up and burn them pumping the atmosphere with carbon dioxide the system memory is distorted, the system structure is diluted essentially

transition said:

transition said:

sarahs mum said:

But Spring is about promise.

a continuous Spring for our own kind, of fossil fuel energy supply, providing for the billions and growing, puts humans at war with climate.

the seasons, the obliquity of the ecliptic, and day/night cycles, they embed order, clock it really in a very real sense, a lot of the ordering force (providing structure) is from the condensative aspects of energy gradients. And there is the pumping a hydrological cycle, atmospheric gasses a large part of that, and all the structure involved (including organic life) are essentially memory

polar ice are memory too

masses of coal and oil etc under the ground are memory, when you dig them up and burn them pumping the atmosphere with carbon dioxide the system memory is distorted, the system structure is diluted essentially

But the CO2 must have been free at one time.

Tamb said:

transition said:

transition said:

a continuous Spring for our own kind, of fossil fuel energy supply, providing for the billions and growing, puts humans at war with climate.

the seasons, the obliquity of the ecliptic, and day/night cycles, they embed order, clock it really in a very real sense, a lot of the ordering force (providing structure) is from the condensative aspects of energy gradients. And there is the pumping a hydrological cycle, atmospheric gasses a large part of that, and all the structure involved (including organic life) are essentially memory

polar ice are memory too

masses of coal and oil etc under the ground are memory, when you dig them up and burn them pumping the atmosphere with carbon dioxide the system memory is distorted, the system structure is diluted essentially

But the CO2 must have been free at one time.

structure in a system (the earth system), particularly regards a system involving self-regulating mechanisms (as it is), has memory, so quantities of atmospheric carbon dioxide are part of system memory

transition said:

Tamb said:

transition said:

the seasons, the obliquity of the ecliptic, and day/night cycles, they embed order, clock it really in a very real sense, a lot of the ordering force (providing structure) is from the condensative aspects of energy gradients. And there is the pumping a hydrological cycle, atmospheric gasses a large part of that, and all the structure involved (including organic life) are essentially memory

polar ice are memory too

masses of coal and oil etc under the ground are memory, when you dig them up and burn them pumping the atmosphere with carbon dioxide the system memory is distorted, the system structure is diluted essentially

But the CO2 must have been free at one time.

structure in a system (the earth system), particularly regards a system involving self-regulating mechanisms (as it is), has memory, so quantities of atmospheric carbon dioxide are part of system memory

any system that banks up energy and converts it into structure involves memory, active memory really

transition said:

Tamb said:

transition said:

the seasons, the obliquity of the ecliptic, and day/night cycles, they embed order, clock it really in a very real sense, a lot of the ordering force (providing structure) is from the condensative aspects of energy gradients. And there is the pumping a hydrological cycle, atmospheric gasses a large part of that, and all the structure involved (including organic life) are essentially memory

polar ice are memory too

masses of coal and oil etc under the ground are memory, when you dig them up and burn them pumping the atmosphere with carbon dioxide the system memory is distorted, the system structure is diluted essentially

But the CO2 must have been free at one time.

structure in a system (the earth system), particularly regards a system involving self-regulating mechanisms (as it is), has memory, so quantities of atmospheric carbon dioxide are part of system memory

But you said placing them back into the atmosphere distorts the memory.
Surely it would be restoring the balance.

Tamb said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

But the CO2 must have been free at one time.

structure in a system (the earth system), particularly regards a system involving self-regulating mechanisms (as it is), has memory, so quantities of atmospheric carbon dioxide are part of system memory

But you said placing them back into the atmosphere distorts the memory.
Surely it would be restoring the balance.

Some memories should be repressed. Buried deep…

furious said:

Tamb said:

transition said:

structure in a system (the earth system), particularly regards a system involving self-regulating mechanisms (as it is), has memory, so quantities of atmospheric carbon dioxide are part of system memory

But you said placing them back into the atmosphere distorts the memory.
Surely it would be restoring the balance.

Some memories should be repressed. Buried deep…

Like the CO2 containing coal.

Tamb said:

furious said:

Tamb said:

But you said placing them back into the atmosphere distorts the memory.
Surely it would be restoring the balance.

Some memories should be repressed. Buried deep…

Like the CO2 containing coal.

i’d guess the global warming and climate change projections, as updated and improved, will continually show the climate change is worse than earlier projections suggested, this will be a theme

the earth system structures have memory

transition said:

Tamb said:

furious said:

Some memories should be repressed. Buried deep…

Like the CO2 containing coal.

i’d guess the global warming and climate change projections, as updated and improved, will continually show the climate change is worse than earlier projections suggested, this will be a theme

the earth system structures have memory

Gaia be praised.

Tamb said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

Like the CO2 containing coal.

i’d guess the global warming and climate change projections, as updated and improved, will continually show the climate change is worse than earlier projections suggested, this will be a theme

the earth system structures have memory

Gaia be praised.

more like you’d attribute memory to DNA, the encoding/decoding, or a computer system

what’s the chances of functions of memory being limited to just DNA (or organisms), or your computer

even a dumb calculator has memory

I wake up with ten fingers tomorrow, that’s memory I could argue

I doubt there’s any reason functions of memory are limited to what humans do and think, for one it exists in other life

which leaves the question of whether it exists (not entirely independent of perhaps) in the (presumed more inanimate) broader aspects of the environments of organic life

I think it does

transition said:

Tamb said:

transition said:

i’d guess the global warming and climate change projections, as updated and improved, will continually show the climate change is worse than earlier projections suggested, this will be a theme

the earth system structures have memory

Gaia be praised.

more like you’d attribute memory to DNA, the encoding/decoding, or a computer system

what’s the chances of functions of memory being limited to just DNA (or organisms), or your computer

even a dumb calculator has memory

I wake up with ten fingers tomorrow, that’s memory I could argue

I doubt there’s any reason functions of memory are limited to what humans do and think, for one it exists in other life

which leaves the question of whether it exists (not entirely independent of perhaps) in the (presumed more inanimate) broader aspects of the environments of organic life

I think it does

How is memory encoded in non living things, it has history for sure a memory of how it came into existence perhaps

Cymek said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

Gaia be praised.

more like you’d attribute memory to DNA, the encoding/decoding, or a computer system

what’s the chances of functions of memory being limited to just DNA (or organisms), or your computer

even a dumb calculator has memory

I wake up with ten fingers tomorrow, that’s memory I could argue

I doubt there’s any reason functions of memory are limited to what humans do and think, for one it exists in other life

which leaves the question of whether it exists (not entirely independent of perhaps) in the (presumed more inanimate) broader aspects of the environments of organic life

I think it does

How is memory encoded in non living things, it has history for sure a memory of how it came into existence perhaps

how about your new house, it’s an otherwise more inanimate part of your environment, which you organized, it persists whether you are there or not, so it’s memory

transition said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

more like you’d attribute memory to DNA, the encoding/decoding, or a computer system

what’s the chances of functions of memory being limited to just DNA (or organisms), or your computer

even a dumb calculator has memory

I wake up with ten fingers tomorrow, that’s memory I could argue

I doubt there’s any reason functions of memory are limited to what humans do and think, for one it exists in other life

which leaves the question of whether it exists (not entirely independent of perhaps) in the (presumed more inanimate) broader aspects of the environments of organic life

I think it does

How is memory encoded in non living things, it has history for sure a memory of how it came into existence perhaps

how about your new house, it’s an otherwise more inanimate part of your environment, which you organized, it persists whether you are there or not, so it’s memory

You could think of everything like that I suppose, software code in the universe

Cymek said:

transition said:

Cymek said:

How is memory encoded in non living things, it has history for sure a memory of how it came into existence perhaps

how about your new house, it’s an otherwise more inanimate part of your environment, which you organized, it persists whether you are there or not, so it’s memory

You could think of everything like that I suppose, software code in the universe

analogue systems can have memory, and thresholds where things change (more abruptly)

transition said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

how about your new house, it’s an otherwise more inanimate part of your environment, which you organized, it persists whether you are there or not, so it’s memory

You could think of everything like that I suppose, software code in the universe

analogue systems can have memory, and thresholds where things change (more abruptly)

take a simple example, like a sample and hold using a capacitor

idea’s fairly simple, charge a low leakage capacitor to 5 volts, it holds the voltage (declines slowly), still sometime later the capacitor voltage represents the voltage applied at whatever time previous, the capacitor has memory

transition said:

Tamb said:

furious said:

Some memories should be repressed. Buried deep…

Like the CO2 containing coal.

i’d guess the global warming and climate change projections, as updated and improved, will continually show the climate change is worse than earlier projections suggested, this will be a theme

the earth system structures have memory

Or maybe you’re just off your nut…

Witty Rejoinder said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

Like the CO2 containing coal.

i’d guess the global warming and climate change projections, as updated and improved, will continually show the climate change is worse than earlier projections suggested, this will be a theme

the earth system structures have memory

Or maybe you’re just off your nut…

pick something, anything, say what and why, and we could go from there