Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

1

if I die and persist as a memory in someone else, as I do similarly when alive, does that count as an afterlife?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

I am also a 0.
When mz Tamb died I really wanted to believe that we would be reunited after I died but I simply could not believe that it could happen. There was/is no afterlife.

transition said:

if I die and persist as a memory in someone else, as I do similarly when alive, does that count as an afterlife?

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist in other people’s memory, but I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

if I die and persist as a memory in someone else, as I do similarly when alive, does that count as an afterlife?

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist in other people’s memory, but I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

but you don’t know that it’s not what people are responding to

clearly the respect for (a) life also involves its value after death, otherwise you’d be left with a (social and psychological) environment that made life less worth living, potentially contempt even

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

I am also a 0.
When mz Tamb died I really wanted to believe that we would be reunited after I died but I simply could not believe that it could happen. There was/is no afterlife.

Danny Thompson on the death of friend’s

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

if I die and persist as a memory in someone else, as I do similarly when alive, does that count as an afterlife?

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist in other people’s memory, but I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

but you don’t know that it’s not what people are responding to

clearly the respect for (a) life also involves its value after death, otherwise you’d be left with a (social and psychological) environment that made life less worth living, potentially contempt even

Can’t agree T. Life is more pleasant if lived for the now not for some intangible afterlife.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

if I die and persist as a memory in someone else, as I do similarly when alive, does that count as an afterlife?

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist in other people’s memory, but I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

but you don’t know that it’s not what people are responding to

clearly the respect for (a) life also involves its value after death, otherwise you’d be left with a (social and psychological) environment that made life less worth living, potentially contempt even

What is your answer for the survey?

0

sibeen said:

0

But that could change with technology :)

<0

If we wanted to we could say that people live on through passing on their genes to their kids. But that doesn’t really help the dier.

sibeen said:

0

maybe they just didn’t want you?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

0 when your dead your dead

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

0

But that could change with technology :)

Not in my lifetime.

5

Zero. Nil. No chance.

Divine Angel said:

5

Interesting. Why?

kryten said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

0 when your dead your dead

you are dead to me, you’re.

:-)

Michael V said:

Zero. Nil. No chance.

We are a diverse group. Mainly 0s with a 5 for balance.

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

5

Interesting. Why?

1. I did my research on YouTube, I’ve seen evidence of reincarnation and mediumship.
2. Just being different. I’m betting every one here is gonna say 0 😊

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

5

Interesting. Why?

because she is being obstreperous?

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist in other people’s memory, but I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

but you don’t know that it’s not what people are responding to

clearly the respect for (a) life also involves its value after death, otherwise you’d be left with a (social and psychological) environment that made life less worth living, potentially contempt even

What is your answer for the survey?

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

Divine Angel said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

5

Interesting. Why?

1. I did my research on YouTube, I’ve seen evidence of reincarnation and mediumship.
2. Just being different. I’m betting every one here is gonna say 0 😊

wait, it’s out of 5 ¿

5

except then someone shifted the goalposts

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

but you don’t know that it’s not what people are responding to

clearly the respect for (a) life also involves its value after death, otherwise you’d be left with a (social and psychological) environment that made life less worth living, potentially contempt even

What is your answer for the survey?

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

we were agreeing up to a point

The science me says 0.
The emotional me say about 1.

If anyone asks me what it’d be like after they die, I tell them that it’s exactly the same before they were born.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

but you don’t know that it’s not what people are responding to

clearly the respect for (a) life also involves its value after death, otherwise you’d be left with a (social and psychological) environment that made life less worth living, potentially contempt even

What is your answer for the survey?

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

The required answer is one of the following:
0
1
2
3
4
5

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Michael V said:

Interesting. Why?

1. I did my research on YouTube, I’ve seen evidence of reincarnation and mediumship.
2. Just being different. I’m betting every one here is gonna say 0 😊

wait, it’s out of 5 ¿

5

except then someone shifted the goalposts

?
Who shifted goalposts and how?

Trust me, I’m an expert.

0.

:)

SCIENCE said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What is your answer for the survey?

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

we were agreeing up to a point

be a strange turnout, not, heathens getting getting all fundamentalist about ideas held for psychological comfort, and maintaining mental states

sibeen said:

Trust me, I’m an expert.

0.

:)

pfffft anecdote.

It depends on definition of death too. Like, there’s evidence suggesting the brain is conscious a second after the person has been beheaded. And in the case of the guy whose mum kept him on life support for 20 years after brain death, the guy had no consciousness.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What is your answer for the survey?

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

The required answer is one of the following:
0
1
2
3
4
5

nah, you won’t be going around my alphabet, as if NS has been worth reading for the last 15+ years now, or that article anyway

there was a time it was definitely worth reading

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

The required answer is one of the following:
0
1
2
3
4
5

nah, you won’t be going around my alphabet, as if NS has been worth reading for the last 15+ years now, or that article anyway

there was a time it was definitely worth reading

The OP did not specify a choice of 5. It said from 0 to 5 and gave the parameters for 0 & 5.

Divine Angel said:

It depends on definition of death too. Like, there’s evidence suggesting the brain is conscious a second after the person has been beheaded. And in the case of the guy whose mum kept him on life support for 20 years after brain death, the guy had no consciousness.

That was covered in the OP.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

afterlife is essentially, and necessarily a soft concept, as much is

The required answer is one of the following:
0
1
2
3
4
5

nah, you won’t be going around my alphabet, as if NS has been worth reading for the last 15+ years now, or that article anyway

there was a time it was definitely worth reading

Shrug, it’s not compulsory.

Tamb said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The required answer is one of the following:
0
1
2
3
4
5

nah, you won’t be going around my alphabet, as if NS has been worth reading for the last 15+ years now, or that article anyway

there was a time it was definitely worth reading

The OP did not specify a choice of 5. It said from 0 to 5 and gave the parameters for 0 & 5.

I don’t get your point.

I have a Q for rev

are you dead before you are conceived?

granted, probably only marginally better than the survey Q, but at least it’s got more challenging philosophy in it

The Rev Dodgson said:

Divine Angel said:

It depends on definition of death too. Like, there’s evidence suggesting the brain is conscious a second after the person has been beheaded. And in the case of the guy whose mum kept him on life support for 20 years after brain death, the guy had no consciousness.

That was covered in the OP.

Duh me. My brain is still not working properly. Stoopid virus.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

transition said:

nah, you won’t be going around my alphabet, as if NS has been worth reading for the last 15+ years now, or that article anyway

there was a time it was definitely worth reading

The OP did not specify a choice of 5. It said from 0 to 5 and gave the parameters for 0 & 5.

I don’t get your point.

Someone was arguing that there was a choice of 5. I think you pointed out that it was 0,1,2,3,4,5 so a choice of 6. I was agreeing.

transition said:

I have a Q for rev

are you dead before you are conceived?

granted, probably only marginally better than the survey Q, but at least it’s got more challenging philosophy in it

Don’t see anything challenging about that at all.

Things that don’t exist are neither dead nor alive.

But anyway, if you think this discussion is such a waste of time, feel free to go and do something else.

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

The OP did not specify a choice of 5. It said from 0 to 5 and gave the parameters for 0 & 5.

I don’t get your point.

Someone was arguing that there was a choice of 5. I think you pointed out that it was 0,1,2,3,4,5 so a choice of 6. I was agreeing.

That’s alright then :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

But anyway, if you think this discussion is such a waste of time, feel free to go and do something else.

we think the same.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

To BE or Not To BE
that is the question

Question: Do you believe in a FORE Life?
Like were you just floating around Waiting To Be Born?

Not sure how to answer the survey
Easy to say, “NO” (0) you’re just so much rotting meat (compost)

but I strongly believe that each individual is attached by a kind of umbilical chord
to generations that came before (GENES if you like) clear back to primordial soup.

therefore, yes,
unless your line goes extinct, you are still attached to that same chord into the future.

i doano,
except for the Devine ANGEL, I doubt we’re going to be sitting on a cloud somewhere
…and…are we condemned to become a ghost? DEAR GOD, I HOPE NOT!

To BE or Not To BE
that is the question

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

First some background.

a) A startlingly large number of primitive peoples believe in an afterlife and reincarnation. The beliefs in pre-European Australia and black Jamaica are virtually identical. The belief had to be prevalent throughout humanity at least as long ago as 50,000 years.

b) I have been though a “near death experience” without being anywhere near death. Rather, I was in an extreme emotional state attempting to, and succeeding in, breaking through the fear barrier. Wikipedia describes common elements of the near death experience as the following eleven, I experienced numbers 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11. Not 1, 3 or 8. A near-death experience is often interpreted as survival into an afterlife. I now know it is nothing of the kind, being instead a simple function of brain chemistry.

1. A sense/awareness of being dead.
2. A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.
3. An out-of-body experience. A perception of one’s body from an outside position, sometimes observing medical professionals performing resuscitation efforts.
4. A “tunnel experience” or entering a darkness. A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.
5. A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light (or “Being of Light”) which communicates with the person.
6. An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.
7. Encountering “Beings of Light”, “Beings dressed in white”, or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.
8. Receiving a life review, commonly referred to as “seeing one’s life flash before one’s eyes”.
9. Approaching a border or a decision by oneself or others to return to one’s body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.
10. Suddenly finding oneself back inside one’s body.
11. Connection to the cultural beliefs held by the individual, which seem to dictate some of the phenomena experienced in the NDE and particularly the later interpretation thereof.

On a scale of zero to 5.
I am a zero.

‘Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.’

The answer is a yes or no, the 0 1 2 3 4 5 options are a distraction.
So I am a yes, there is a chance there is an afterlife. Lock in a 5 for me.
What form that would take in my mind is another thing.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I have a Q for rev

are you dead before you are conceived?

granted, probably only marginally better than the survey Q, but at least it’s got more challenging philosophy in it

Don’t see anything challenging about that at all.

Things that don’t exist are neither dead nor alive.

But anyway, if you think this discussion is such a waste of time, feel free to go and do something else.

I did answer

there was a time NS did metaphysics, really well

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I have a Q for rev

are you dead before you are conceived?

granted, probably only marginally better than the survey Q, but at least it’s got more challenging philosophy in it

Don’t see anything challenging about that at all.

Things that don’t exist are neither dead nor alive.

But anyway, if you think this discussion is such a waste of time, feel free to go and do something else.

I did answer

there was a time NS did metaphysics, really well

You didn’t provide an integer between 0 and 5, so no, you didn’t answer.

Happy to debate the worthwhileness of NS in a different thread if you like.

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?
\
First some background.

a) A startlingly large number of primitive peoples believe in an afterlife and reincarnation. The beliefs in pre-European Australia and black Jamaica are virtually identical. The belief had to be prevalent throughout humanity at least as long ago as 50,000 years.

b) I have been though a “near death experience” without being anywhere near death. Rather, I was in an extreme emotional state attempting to, and succeeding in, breaking through the fear barrier. Wikipedia describes common elements of the near death experience as the following eleven, I experienced numbers 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11. Not 1, 3 or 8. A near-death experience is often interpreted as survival into an afterlife. I now know it is nothing of the kind, being instead a simple function of brain chemistry.

1. A sense/awareness of being dead.
2. A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.
3. An out-of-body experience. A perception of one’s body from an outside position, sometimes observing medical professionals performing resuscitation efforts.
4. A “tunnel experience” or entering a darkness. A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.
5. A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light (or “Being of Light”) which communicates with the person.
6. An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.
7. Encountering “Beings of Light”, “Beings dressed in white”, or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.
8. Receiving a life review, commonly referred to as “seeing one’s life flash before one’s eyes”.
9. Approaching a border or a decision by oneself or others to return to one’s body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.
10. Suddenly finding oneself back inside one’s body.
11. Connection to the cultural beliefs held by the individual, which seem to dictate some of the phenomena experienced in the NDE and particularly the later interpretation thereof.

On a scale of zero to 5.
I am a zero.

One can believe in anything they WISH if it brings them comfort
since we’re programmed toward SURVIVAL-ISM
we find it hard to “Give Up the Ghost”

but AFAIC it’s just more denial-ism

ruby said:

‘Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.’

The answer is a yes or no, the 0 1 2 3 4 5 options are a distraction.
So I am a yes, there is a chance there is an afterlife. Lock in a 5 for me.
What form that would take in my mind is another thing.

5 noted.

(but why not 0, because there is a chance there isn’t an afterlife?)

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Don’t see anything challenging about that at all.

Things that don’t exist are neither dead nor alive.

But anyway, if you think this discussion is such a waste of time, feel free to go and do something else.

I did answer

there was a time NS did metaphysics, really well

You didn’t provide an integer between 0 and 5, so no, you didn’t answer.

Happy to debate the worthwhileness of NS in a different thread if you like.

perhaps you could start by acknowledging the Q in the OP is a metaphysical proposition

Mrs m would be a 5. Mrs m also believes in omens.

I should have asked Missy (atheist?) when she dropped in. Perhaps I should ask sister 1 (Anglican) and sister 2 (Baptist).

At father-in-law’s funeral, the minister forcefully prated about the afterlife, saying the exact same same thing three times, I can still quote it verbatim iof you like. I felt like strangling him.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ruby said:

‘Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.’

The answer is a yes or no, the 0 1 2 3 4 5 options are a distraction.
So I am a yes, there is a chance there is an afterlife. Lock in a 5 for me.
What form that would take in my mind is another thing.

5 noted.

(but why not 0, because there is a chance there isn’t an afterlife?)

Or 3? Sit on the fence.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I did answer

there was a time NS did metaphysics, really well

You didn’t provide an integer between 0 and 5, so no, you didn’t answer.

Happy to debate the worthwhileness of NS in a different thread if you like.

perhaps you could start by acknowledging the Q in the OP is a metaphysical proposition

Depends what you mean by “metaphysical”, but my opinion on the metaphysicalness or otherwise of the question has no relevance to your answer.

I’m just asking people what their answer to the question as stated in the OP is.

Spiny Norman said:

The science me says 0.
The emotional me say about 1.

If anyone asks me what it’d be like after they die, I tell them that it’s exactly the same before they were born.

I’m kind of like this, except the last bit. Fairly certain that it is a 0 but with my fingers crossed. For the second bit, there is no before birth or after death, they are only the same insofar as they don’t exist. From my perspective, the universe came into existence on the moment of my birth and will cease to exist when I die…

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

ruby said:

‘Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.’

The answer is a yes or no, the 0 1 2 3 4 5 options are a distraction.
So I am a yes, there is a chance there is an afterlife. Lock in a 5 for me.
What form that would take in my mind is another thing.

5 noted.

(but why not 0, because there is a chance there isn’t an afterlife?)

Or 3? Sit on the fence.

2.5 would be sit on the fence, if it was allowed.

That’s why I made it 0 to 5, rather than 1 to 5.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You didn’t provide an integer between 0 and 5, so no, you didn’t answer.

Happy to debate the worthwhileness of NS in a different thread if you like.

perhaps you could start by acknowledging the Q in the OP is a metaphysical proposition

Depends what you mean by “metaphysical”, but my opinion on the metaphysicalness or otherwise of the question has no relevance to your answer.

I’m just asking people what their answer to the question as stated in the OP is.

no, I think the neglected truth is buried or lost in your use of the word just

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

ruby said:

‘Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.’

The answer is a yes or no, the 0 1 2 3 4 5 options are a distraction.
So I am a yes, there is a chance there is an afterlife. Lock in a 5 for me.
What form that would take in my mind is another thing.

5 noted.

(but why not 0, because there is a chance there isn’t an afterlife?)

Or 3? Sit on the fence.

It could be simplified. 0 = totally do not believe. 1 = maybe. 2 = totally believe.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

perhaps you could start by acknowledging the Q in the OP is a metaphysical proposition

Depends what you mean by “metaphysical”, but my opinion on the metaphysicalness or otherwise of the question has no relevance to your answer.

I’m just asking people what their answer to the question as stated in the OP is.

no, I think the neglected truth is buried or lost in your use of the word just

I’ll note you as a “declined to answer” then. That’s allowed.

Tamb said:

Divine Angel said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

5 noted.

(but why not 0, because there is a chance there isn’t an afterlife?)

Or 3? Sit on the fence.

It could be simplified. 0 = totally do not believe. 1 = maybe. 2 = totally believe.

OK, but in that case the only rational answer (IMO) would be 1, but that would be misleading.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

Divine Angel said:

Or 3? Sit on the fence.

It could be simplified. 0 = totally do not believe. 1 = maybe. 2 = totally believe.

OK, but in that case the only rational answer (IMO) would be 1, but that would be misleading.

Rationally yes but religious people as a rule would answer 2.

mollwollfumble said:

Mrs m would be a 5. Mrs m also believes in omens.

I should have asked Missy (atheist?) when she dropped in. Perhaps I should ask sister 1 (Anglican) and sister 2 (Baptist).

At father-in-law’s funeral, the minister forcefully prated about the afterlife, saying the exact same same thing three times, I can still quote it verbatim iof you like. I felt like strangling him.

I’m not sure what Mrs Rev D would say, possibly a 1 or 2 even though she is a church-goer.

I’m also not sure about kids. My brother would be a 5 and sister a 0, I’m pretty sure.

Tamb said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

It could be simplified. 0 = totally do not believe. 1 = maybe. 2 = totally believe.

OK, but in that case the only rational answer (IMO) would be 1, but that would be misleading.

Rationally yes but religious people as a rule would answer 2.

Yes, in the same way that on the same scale regarding existence of a particular God, they say they are a 2, but it is illogical to be a 0, so all atheists are really agnostics.

I suspect elder sprog, who has just finished at a government school, would give a 4 or a 5.

Junior sprog, who still attends a catholic school, would give a 0.

Put me in the zero basket.

I’d say about a 3. I say this because i think some of the artifacts of consciousness may exist outside the singular human brain that experiences them in the here and now. How this interconnection works i am not certain but i wouldn’t dismiss an afterlife completely. I suppose my belief could be compared to the Hindu concept of reincarnation or the Aboriginal belief in a interconnectedness of things past and future in the present.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ruby said:

‘Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.’

The answer is a yes or no, the 0 1 2 3 4 5 options are a distraction.
So I am a yes, there is a chance there is an afterlife. Lock in a 5 for me.
What form that would take in my mind is another thing.

5 noted.

(but why not 0, because there is a chance there isn’t an afterlife?)

Absolutely think there is also a very good chance there is no afterlife. I prefer to think there may be one, but not the sunday school version where you meet up with people and you all continue with the same identities where you left off. My imaginings about afterlife are quite different to that, and also involve me thinking that my puny mind probably can’t comprehend what it could involve.
I am really both a 0 and a 5, as I think each are equally possible, but that ain’t in the Rev Rules, is it?

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

sibeen said:

I suspect elder sprog, who has just finished at a government school, would give a 4 or a 5.

Junior sprog, who still attends a catholic school, would give a 0.

Junior Sprog is just hoping that hell doesn’t await her for her many misdeeds.

buffy said:

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

Heh heh, as a lapsed catholic he was in limbo.

buffy said:

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

:)

buffy said:

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

one data point really isn’t much good…

ruby said:

buffy said:

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

Heh heh, as a lapsed catholic he was in limbo.

Like this young lady

mollwollfumble said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

First some background.

a) A startlingly large number of primitive peoples believe in an afterlife and reincarnation. The beliefs in pre-European Australia and black Jamaica are virtually identical. The belief had to be prevalent throughout humanity at least as long ago as 50,000 years.

b) I have been though a “near death experience” without being anywhere near death. Rather, I was in an extreme emotional state attempting to, and succeeding in, breaking through the fear barrier. Wikipedia describes common elements of the near death experience as the following eleven, I experienced numbers 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11. Not 1, 3 or 8. A near-death experience is often interpreted as survival into an afterlife. I now know it is nothing of the kind, being instead a simple function of brain chemistry.

1. A sense/awareness of being dead.
2. A sense of peace, well-being and painlessness. Positive emotions. A sense of removal from the world.
3. An out-of-body experience. A perception of one’s body from an outside position, sometimes observing medical professionals performing resuscitation efforts.
4. A “tunnel experience” or entering a darkness. A sense of moving up, or through, a passageway or staircase.
5. A rapid movement toward and/or sudden immersion in a powerful light (or “Being of Light”) which communicates with the person.
6. An intense feeling of unconditional love and acceptance.
7. Encountering “Beings of Light”, “Beings dressed in white”, or similar. Also, the possibility of being reunited with deceased loved ones.
8. Receiving a life review, commonly referred to as “seeing one’s life flash before one’s eyes”.
9. Approaching a border or a decision by oneself or others to return to one’s body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return.
10. Suddenly finding oneself back inside one’s body.
11. Connection to the cultural beliefs held by the individual, which seem to dictate some of the phenomena experienced in the NDE and particularly the later interpretation thereof.

On a scale of zero to 5.
I am a zero.

The main theme of the article was on the universality of belief in an afterlife amongst all cultures.

To me there seems to be no inconsistency between being near certain that individuals cease to exist when their brain dies, and recognising that there is a sub-conscious tendency to believe in a continuation of life in almost everyone.

Witty Rejoinder said:

I’d say about a 3. I say this because i think some of the artifacts of consciousness may exist outside the singular human brain that experiences them in the here and now. How this interconnection works i am not certain but i wouldn’t dismiss an afterlife completely. I suppose my belief could be compared to the Hindu concept of reincarnation or the Aboriginal belief in a interconnectedness of things past and future in the present.

Nicely put Witty. That’s where my beliefs sit too.

ruby said:

buffy said:

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

Heh heh, as a lapsed catholic he was in limbo.

If there is any truth to catholic theology I suspect that taking a step upwards on the stariway to heaven would be the opposite direction to which I’d be allocated.

sibeen said:

ruby said:

buffy said:

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

Heh heh, as a lapsed catholic he was in limbo.

If there is any truth to catholic theology I suspect that taking a step upwards on the stariway to heaven would be the opposite direction to which I’d be allocated.

As they say. Stairway to heaven. Highway to hell.

Better go and do some work.

What Tim Minchin thinks

“He hoped and prayed that there wasn’t an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn’t an afterlife.”

― Douglas Adams

sibeen said:

ruby said:

buffy said:

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

Heh heh, as a lapsed catholic he was in limbo.

If there is any truth to catholic theology I suspect that taking a step upwards on the stariway to heaven would be the opposite direction to which I’d be allocated.

Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up
It seems almost like a punishment

>Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up

fairly much everything is made up, generated by minds, representations

transition said:

>Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up

fairly much everything is made up, generated by minds, representations

You just made that up.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

>Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up

fairly much everything is made up, generated by minds, representations

You just made that up.

I did, and as it can go with soft representation it comes close to a truth, and the actual thing itself

transition said:

>Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up

fairly much everything is made up, generated by minds, representations

True but it seems like very little thought was put into what an afterlife is like considering how important it is in most faiths.
It’s a bribe to follow the teachings of the religion but a poor one at that and seems subject to the whims of god

Cymek said:

transition said:

>Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up

fairly much everything is made up, generated by minds, representations

True but it seems like very little thought was put into what an afterlife is like considering how important it is in most faiths.
It’s a bribe to follow the teachings of the religion but a poor one at that and seems subject to the whims of god

or, dumbed down, the notion of afterlife may be more a reflection on the value of life, while you’re here

you could believe (toy with the notion) in an afterlife because you have an idea there isn’t one, to adjust to this life

plenty of belief is (ways are) this because it’s otherwise and that

I could be mostly monogamous because i’m polyamorous, for example

I could be heterosexual and attracted to women because I was born a man and deprived so of ever being a woman

life is full of interesting flipsides

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

>Heaven as described in various novels is quite poor and lacking and obviously is just made up

fairly much everything is made up, generated by minds, representations

You just made that up.

I did, and as it can go with soft representation it comes close to a truth, and the actual thing itself

Hmm

So it seems you think that made up stuff can still have a truth relative to actual things, which can be debated?

JudgeMental said:

buffy said:

buffy said:

Put me in the zero basket.

Because I believe sibeen because he’s been there and back.

Well, not entirely. But scientists like to do the experiment…and I’m happier he did it than me.

one data point really isn’t much good…

‘tis for the one person involved…

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

You just made that up.

I did, and as it can go with soft representation it comes close to a truth, and the actual thing itself

Hmm

So it seems you think that made up stuff can still have a truth relative to actual things, which can be debated?

like I said, mostly everything is made up, it’s what minds do

so if I didn’t answer your Q earlier, it’s because I think everything is made up

Being quite insulting I wonder if the afterlife appeals to the simple minded as it requires little thought on what happens after death as you’ll be right mate if you follow the rules

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

I did, and as it can go with soft representation it comes close to a truth, and the actual thing itself

Hmm

So it seems you think that made up stuff can still have a truth relative to actual things, which can be debated?

like I said, mostly everything is made up, it’s what minds do

so if I didn’t answer your Q earlier, it’s because I think everything is made up

OK, now I’m confused.

First you said something that seemed to imply that made up stuff was worth debating, but now you seem to imply that made up stuff is not worth debating.

I suppose I must have misinterpreted somewhere.

Which is not surprising.

ruby said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I’d say about a 3. I say this because i think some of the artifacts of consciousness may exist outside the singular human brain that experiences them in the here and now. How this interconnection works i am not certain but i wouldn’t dismiss an afterlife completely. I suppose my belief could be compared to the Hindu concept of reincarnation or the Aboriginal belief in a interconnectedness of things past and future in the present.

Nicely put Witty. That’s where my beliefs sit too.

+1
while I doubt the existence of angels, ghosts or spirits,
I do believe in an all encompassing energy permeating the universe.
I’m not at all adverse to being a modicum of that energy.

Anyone carjng to assign a numerical value to that, ( -1?) …be my guest.

Cymek said:

Being quite insulting I wonder if the afterlife appeals to the simple minded as it requires little thought on what happens after death as you’ll be right mate if you follow the rules

everyone has to maintain internal mental states, there are tasks associated

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Hmm

So it seems you think that made up stuff can still have a truth relative to actual things, which can be debated?

like I said, mostly everything is made up, it’s what minds do

so if I didn’t answer your Q earlier, it’s because I think everything is made up

OK, now I’m confused.

First you said something that seemed to imply that made up stuff was worth debating, but now you seem to imply that made up stuff is not worth debating.

I suppose I must have misinterpreted somewhere.

Which is not surprising.

I just don’t go so front-on, some reality slips to the side or evaporates when you do that

Ogmog said:

ruby said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I’d say about a 3. I say this because i think some of the artifacts of consciousness may exist outside the singular human brain that experiences them in the here and now. How this interconnection works i am not certain but i wouldn’t dismiss an afterlife completely. I suppose my belief could be compared to the Hindu concept of reincarnation or the Aboriginal belief in a interconnectedness of things past and future in the present.

Nicely put Witty. That’s where my beliefs sit too.

+1
while I doubt the existence of angels, ghosts or spirits,
I do believe in an all encompassing energy permeating the universe.
I’m not at all adverse to being a modicum of that energy.

Anyone carjng to assign a numerical value to that, ( -1?) …be my guest.

Everything moves to a lower energy state which would help to explain why they can’t communicate with us higher energy beings

No

0.

I would like it not to be but I can’t see how it wouldn’t be 0.

The only two past lives that I can vaguely recall and I think I’ve told you about them before was as an Egyptian Princess and as a ships cat.
There are probably others and in one of them I think I might have killed a Chinaman.

Cymek said:

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

Nice question.

Although we should also allow the response: die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion does not exist.

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

like I said, mostly everything is made up, it’s what minds do

so if I didn’t answer your Q earlier, it’s because I think everything is made up

OK, now I’m confused.

First you said something that seemed to imply that made up stuff was worth debating, but now you seem to imply that made up stuff is not worth debating.

I suppose I must have misinterpreted somewhere.

Which is not surprising.

I just don’t go so front-on, some reality slips to the side or evaporates when you do that

I’d say you are going front on in your assumptions about the intent of the questions and other responders.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

Nice question.

Although we should also allow the response: die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion does not exist.

True

an imaginary afterlife I can see could be quite useful, a real one potentially would have serious practical problems

be glad of the imaginary

transition said:

an imaginary afterlife I can see could be quite useful, a real one potentially would have serious practical problems

be glad of the imaginary

so this does essentially include imaginary afterlife, doesn’t it?

>claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really.

0

transition said:

transition said:

an imaginary afterlife I can see could be quite useful, a real one potentially would have serious practical problems

be glad of the imaginary

so this does essentially include imaginary afterlife, doesn’t it?

>claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really.

Don’t know of any society that doesn’t/didn’t have a cultural belief system that didn’t include an afterlife of some sort

transition said:

transition said:

an imaginary afterlife I can see could be quite useful, a real one potentially would have serious practical problems

be glad of the imaginary

so this does essentially include imaginary afterlife, doesn’t it?

>claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really.

It can if you want it to, or that’s how you interpret it.

That’s not how I interpret it, but its not about me.

Physics doesn’t really allow for an afterlife the human mind would go from organised to a disorganised scattered low energy state

Cymek said:

Physics doesn’t really allow for an afterlife the human mind would go from organised to a disorganised scattered low energy state

there is something approximating continuity (immortalization if you want) with offspring, or by having offspring, your ancestors had instincts for it, you could call that an afterlife, and culture outlives you, you could invest in that, call it your afterlife too

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

If twitter exists over there, I’ll send you a twitter from the other side?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

If twitter exists over there, I’ll send you a twitter from the other side?

I’m not on twitter. It will have to be bookface.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Is there?

There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

So let’s do a quick survey:
On a scale of 0 to 5, how likely do you think there is any form of afterlife?
0 = there definitely isn’t and 5 = there definitely is.

Note that:
I mean some form of conscious entity continuing to exist after the death of the body and cessation of any measurable brain activity; brain activity continuing for a short time after the death of the body doesn’t count.
The scores cover a band, so anything between 0 and 0.49999 is a 0. That means you are a 0 even if you think there is a 9.999% chance that there is an afterlife.

I am a 0.

If twitter exists over there, I’ll send you a twitter from the other side?

I’m not on twitter. It will have to be bookface.

Well I’m not on bookface.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

If twitter exists over there, I’ll send you a twitter from the other side?

I’m not on twitter. It will have to be bookface.

Well I’m not on bookface.

While there’s life there’s hope.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

I’m not on twitter. It will have to be bookface.

Well I’m not on bookface.

While there’s life there’s hope.

No. I’ll never e on bookface while I’m alive.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Well I’m not on bookface.

While there’s life there’s hope.

No. I’ll never e on bookface while I’m alive.

It’s useful for keeping things you are interested in all in the one place.
I use it for that I don’t post anything

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Well I’m not on bookface.

While there’s life there’s hope.

No. I’ll never e on bookface while I’m alive.

I feel the same about twitter. If it’s good enough for DT it certainly is not good enough for me.

Cymek said:

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

how is that different

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

While there’s life there’s hope.

No. I’ll never e on bookface while I’m alive.

I feel the same about twitter. If it’s good enough for DT it certainly is not good enough for me.

I’ve never twittered either.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

1. I did my research on YouTube, I’ve seen evidence of reincarnation and mediumship.
2. Just being different. I’m betting every one here is gonna say 0 😊

wait, it’s out of 5 ¿

5

except then someone shifted the goalposts

?
Who shifted goalposts and how?

The Rev Dodgson said:

do you think there is any form of afterlife?

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

if I die and persist … does that count as an afterlife?

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist … I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

how is that different

One is an actual real tangible machine the other just a belief

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

how is that different

One is an actual real tangible machine the other just a belief

what if a tangible machine can realise my belief

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

how is that different

One is an actual real tangible machine the other just a belief

what if a tangible machine can realise my belief

It could
I was wondering would faith and lack of proof override something that is real and is as good as or better than what your religion tell you, besides perhaps that you will reunited with dead loved ones

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

A question I thought that would be interesting to ask people would be

“After death would you either prefer the guarantee of having you mind uploaded into a vast computer network were you are basically god and can communicate with both the living and your fellow dead people in the same network or die and hope an afterlife as portrayed in religion exists”

how is that different

One is an actual real tangible machine the other just a belief

it would be a real machine if it existed, so for the moment it’s no more tangible than heaven, some might argue less so

what’s wrong with belief anyway, it reliably gets all sorts done, and prevents all sorts happening

in the morning when you first wander out to the kitchen to make a coffee, you anticipate the cups, coffee etc will be where you usually keep them, you believe they will be there, you test it every morning

transition said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

how is that different

One is an actual real tangible machine the other just a belief

it would be a real machine if it existed, so for the moment it’s no more tangible than heaven, some might argue less so

what’s wrong with belief anyway, it reliably gets all sorts done, and prevents all sorts happening

in the morning when you first wander out to the kitchen to make a coffee, you anticipate the cups, coffee etc will be where you usually keep them, you believe they will be there, you test it every morning

Yes but those coffee cups actually exist, religion claims but offers no proof and the burden falls on the claimant to provide proof otherwise it’s just made up and they kill each other over this nonsense.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

if I die and persist … does that count as an afterlife?

For the purposes of this survey, no.

Obviously people do persist … I don’t think that is what is normally meant as an afterlife.

I’m not sure why you replaced the important bits of those sentences with …, but if you see my comment as goal posts being moved, just stick with your original interpretation. The survey should be people’s response to the original question, without further definition, just like a normal on-line survey.

As things stand, the term has no realistically meaningful application so no, there is no afterlife.

But who knows, in the future it may be possible to gradually transfer the functions and configurations of one’s brain to a machine capable of performing the same roles, while maintaining a convincing sense of continuity of “self”, such that our lives apparently continue after the demise of the body.

But we’re a very long way from such technology, if indeed it’s even feasible.

Bubblecar said:

As things stand, the term has no realistically meaningful application so no, there is no afterlife.

But who knows, in the future it may be possible to gradually transfer the functions and configurations of one’s brain to a machine capable of performing the same roles, while maintaining a convincing sense of continuity of “self”, such that our lives apparently continue after the demise of the body.

But we’re a very long way from such technology, if indeed it’s even feasible.

I’ll take that as a 0 :)

It would be nice to believe in an after life to such an extent that you have no fear of death but can’t do it myself. Though I am happy to accept that a dying brain can play a few tricks, but after cessation of electrical activity it’s brown bread.

Here are the results so far:

0 10
1 1
2
3 1
4
5 2

Transition didn’t give a number, so I included both of SCIENCE’s (1 and 5).

I may have double-counted some of the 0’s, but not intentionally.

Godless heathens, the lot of you!

The Rev Dodgson said:

Here are the results so far:

0 10
1 1
2
3 1
4
5 2

Transition didn’t give a number, so I included both of SCIENCE’s (1 and 5).

I may have double-counted some of the 0’s, but not intentionally.

sorry we meant to say, the first time we said 1 i meant 5, as in the maximum possible amount

we’re not computed on the implications of disallowing memory, as ‘ur updated update indicated, so we have no numerical response to that — if we’re talking about consciousness, not just afterlife but beforelife and duringlife, what is consciousness without memory really ¿

sibeen said:

Godless heathens, the lot of you!

5

From OP. “ even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.”

WTF? How can such a statistic be gathered? Is the next question asked of surveyed atheists. “Did you lie in the last question?”

gaghalfrunt said:

From OP. “ even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.”

WTF? How can such a statistic be gathered? Is the next question asked of surveyed atheists. “Did you lie in the last question?”

who knows, but we suspect that belief in life does not require belief in deity*

• unless they are considered equivalent, which is also an option

gaghalfrunt said:

From OP. “ even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.”

WTF? How can such a statistic be gathered? Is the next question asked of surveyed atheists. “Did you lie in the last question?”

Yes.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Here are the results so far:

0 10
1 1
2
3 1
4
5 2

Transition didn’t give a number, so I included both of SCIENCE’s (1 and 5).

I may have double-counted some of the 0’s, but not intentionally.

sorry we meant to say, the first time we said 1 i meant 5, as in the maximum possible amount

we’re not computed on the implications of disallowing memory, as ‘ur updated update indicated, so we have no numerical response to that — if we’re talking about consciousness, not just afterlife but beforelife and duringlife, what is consciousness without memory really ¿

No dispute that memory is part of consciousness, but someone else’s memory of me is not part of my consciousness.

gaghalfrunt said:

From OP. “ even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.”

WTF? How can such a statistic be gathered? Is the next question asked of surveyed atheists. “Did you lie in the last question?”

Something like that :)

They did tests of people’s subconscious reaction to spooky tales, and found that even atheists had strong reactions to things they didn’t believe in.

They also worded their questions to make them more ambiguous, which seems pretty dodgy as well.

The Rev Dodgson said:

They did tests of people’s subconscious reaction to spooky tales, and found that even atheists had strong reactions to things they didn’t believe in.

does reacting strongly in disbelief count as a strong reaction to things one does not believe in

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

They did tests of people’s subconscious reaction to spooky tales, and found that even atheists had strong reactions to things they didn’t believe in.

does reacting strongly in disbelief count as a strong reaction to things one does not believe in

I suppose it would, but that’s not what they did.

is there an afterlife, i’d say no

is there an imaginary afterlife, i’d say yes

is a lot of stuff imaginary, i’d say yes

https://i.imgur.com/uCQ5ebv.mp4

A suffusion of yellow.

>There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

the ghost in the machine

transition said:

>There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

the ghost in the machine

I mean if you just take those five words as strung together, in their naive sense, they point to something conscious creatures are familiar with, the feel or feel-see of the inside of their head, but simultaneously are largely denied a deep look. You wouldn’t want to be able to force the experience of the color orange, by way of will, to be blue for example. I’ve tried that. Of course culture (shared conventions) did force its color name, denoted orange. Cause for wonder, even concern about the influence of language, when I read orange I automatically see orange

Anyway, i’m thinking the notion of an afterlife is sort of consulting or addressing the ghost in the machine

transition said:

>There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

the ghost in the machine

We all live on as worm food. A little bit of us in every one.

transition said:

transition said:

>There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

the ghost in the machine

I mean if you just take those five words as strung together, in their naive sense, they point to something conscious creatures are familiar with, the feel or feel-see of the inside of their head, but simultaneously are largely denied a deep look. You wouldn’t want to be able to force the experience of the color orange, by way of will, to be blue for example. I’ve tried that. Of course culture (shared conventions) did force its color name, denoted orange. Cause for wonder, even concern about the influence of language, when I read orange I automatically see orange

Anyway, i’m thinking the notion of an afterlife is sort of consulting or addressing the ghost in the machine

I understood all that on first reading.

You OK?

btm said:

A suffusion of yellow.

Nice

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

transition said:

>There is an article in this week’s New Scientist that claims that 70% of people believe in some form of an afterlife, and even those who say they don’t, do really. So even atheists believe in an afterlife, even if they say they don’t.

the ghost in the machine

I mean if you just take those five words as strung together, in their naive sense, they point to something conscious creatures are familiar with, the feel or feel-see of the inside of their head, but simultaneously are largely denied a deep look. You wouldn’t want to be able to force the experience of the color orange, by way of will, to be blue for example. I’ve tried that. Of course culture (shared conventions) did force its color name, denoted orange. Cause for wonder, even concern about the influence of language, when I read orange I automatically see orange

Anyway, i’m thinking the notion of an afterlife is sort of consulting or addressing the ghost in the machine

I understood all that on first reading.

You OK?

chuckle

imagine though, being understood easily by anyone, first read

….imagine though, being understood easily by anyone, first read

alluding to what an intolerant world that would in fact be

transition said:

….imagine though, being understood easily by anyone, first read

alluding to what an intolerant world that would in fact be

We already live in an intolerant world

Cymek said:

transition said:

….imagine though, being understood easily by anyone, first read

alluding to what an intolerant world that would in fact be

We already live in an intolerant world

in some ways I think that true

Cymek said:

transition said:

….imagine though, being understood easily by anyone, first read

alluding to what an intolerant world that would in fact be

We already live in an intolerant world

imagine a cultural force, ways, say dominant ways, you know everything has to be really easily understandably, quickly understandable, even to people thicker or less interested than me, it’d surely result in a tyranny

reckon you could do that with participation and democracy, there would be mobs of thick people like me, insisting everything be understood at a glance

the genius of ease