This year I seem to have beaten the dreaded viral diseases that have attacked my toms for the past 5 years by using my own soil mix instead of using commercial potting mixes.
So far so good the Toms are coming along nicely & have even picked a few in the last 2 weeks.
Problem is every day I have to hand pick off dozens of caterpillars & I must admit have missed the odd one or two that have happily gone to eat some of the fruit… Very frustrating.
How do these supposed ‘Organic garderners’ manage to have such lovely unblemished fruit without using pesticides?
I mus admit that I go to work & my time in the Tom Patch is a bit limited but regardless of time available am not sure how to manage this pest.

Any ideas guys?

Dipel is an approved organic caterpillar control. Or you put exclusion netting over your plants or bags over your fruit to keep the adult moth laying eggs in the first place.

possum70 said:

This year I seem to have beaten the dreaded viral diseases that have attacked my toms for the past 5 years by using my own soil mix instead of using commercial potting mixes.
So far so good the Toms are coming along nicely & have even picked a few in the last 2 weeks.
Problem is every day I have to hand pick off dozens of caterpillars & I must admit have missed the odd one or two that have happily gone to eat some of the fruit… Very frustrating.
How do these supposed ‘Organic garderners’ manage to have such lovely unblemished fruit without using pesticides?
I mus admit that I go to work & my time in the Tom Patch is a bit limited but regardless of time available am not sure how to manage this pest.

Any ideas guys?

My toms are suffering the same fate.

Would you consider Dipel? I used it a few years ago when we had a hairy mary plague, and it worked wonders. This time around we’ve got inchworms.

I think Dipel can still be used in certified organic places – not quite sure though.

If you’d prefer no sprays at all.. do you have bird baths around to attract birds to come and eat the caterpillars?

If you’d prefer no sprays at all.. do you have bird baths around to attract birds to come and eat the caterpillars?
Yes the Maggies seem to get around & eat a few.
Re Dipel: doesn’t that take just as long spraying underneath all the leaves…seems that I would still miss some leaves. Don’t you have to make sure all surfaces are covered? Is it not a continaul onslaught with Dipel to killvthe blighters? Nearly as bad as picking them off by hand!

possum70 said:

I
Re Dipel: doesn’t that take just as long spraying underneath all the leaves…seems that I would still miss some leaves. Don’t you have to make sure all surfaces are covered? Is it not a continaul onslaught with Dipel to killvthe blighters? Nearly as bad as picking them off by hand!

With Dipel, the caterpillars are killed when they eat the sprayed leaves, so you don’t necessarily have to spray every bit of leaf. When I used it, I actually sprayed the Dipel on a plant near my herb patch that I wasn’t particularly fond of, and whenever I found a caterpillar in the herb patch I would throw it into that patch. A fair few found their way there on their own though.

I wouldn’t use it continually.. but if you have a short-term plague I would think it’s worth a shot.

Many thanks bon008
In that case I will give it a go.

Yes dipel is Bacillus thurengis and it only has to be on a portion of leaf which a caterpillar eats. So it isn’t absolutely essential that all surfaces are covered.
When a caterpillar does have a bite of the Bacillus. It becomes ill with the flu..and within four days will drop off dead. The good part is that it only needs a good bite of the Bacillus and it will stop eating.

That aside it is important to keep a healthy bird community in your garden even if this does mean sacrificing some of your fruit and sending your cat to the cat’s home in the sky. I find that making sure that cats do not interfere with the life in your yard is better than a bucket load of controls. Biological biodynamics you see, depend on the correct dynamic. It isn’t only birds, it is things like ants a healthy population of lizards like striped skinks, geckoes and the like. This is impossible if you chuck poisons around willy nilly.

Night lights often trap and kill many moths, as well as attract geckoes which love moths.. Daytime birds do similar things.

It is more about making the ecology of your garden work.

As for grubs in your tomato fruit. Well depending upon where you live, fruit fly can be a severe problem as well as potato moth can be everywhere.

I have found that fruit fly bait may also trap and kill other species which you may consider as pests.

You got wasps? The muddies keep the caterpillars down around here, also like RoughBarked said, the frogs work at nighttime, catching moths…the trick is to attract a natural predator or two to the garden…I’ve never used Dipel but then I am in a situation where the predator numbers can build up…congratulations on getting this current crop of tomatoes so far, by the way!

Dinetta said:

You got wasps? The muddies keep the caterpillars down around here, also like RoughBarked said, the frogs work at nighttime, catching moths…the trick is to attract a natural predator or two to the garden…I’ve never used Dipel but then I am in a situation where the predator numbers can build up…congratulations on getting this current crop of tomatoes so far, by the way!

Ooh cool, I’ve seen a few wasps hanging around in my patch lately :)

bon008 said:

Dinetta said:

You got wasps? The muddies keep the caterpillars down around here, also like RoughBarked said, the frogs work at nighttime, catching moths…the trick is to attract a natural predator or two to the garden…I’ve never used Dipel but then I am in a situation where the predator numbers can build up…congratulations on getting this current crop of tomatoes so far, by the way!

Ooh cool, I’ve seen a few wasps hanging around in my patch lately :)

Various types of wasps.. eat various types of insects or larvae. If one looks, one will see many of them in the garden.

roughbarked said:

bon008 said:

Dinetta said:

You got wasps? The muddies keep the caterpillars down around here, also like RoughBarked said, the frogs work at nighttime, catching moths…the trick is to attract a natural predator or two to the garden…I’ve never used Dipel but then I am in a situation where the predator numbers can build up…congratulations on getting this current crop of tomatoes so far, by the way!

Ooh cool, I’ve seen a few wasps hanging around in my patch lately :)

Various types of wasps.. eat various types of insects or larvae. If one looks, one will see many of them in the garden.

Gotta love wasps, and the muddies don’t sting…I’ve been anxiously awaiting the return of the praying mantis after a couple of years absence (the Preying mantis that is), there have been some babies…just hope the birds aren’t keeping them down…

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

bon008 said:

Ooh cool, I’ve seen a few wasps hanging around in my patch lately :)

Various types of wasps.. eat various types of insects or larvae. If one looks, one will see many of them in the garden.

Gotta love wasps, and the muddies don’t sting…I’ve been anxiously awaiting the return of the praying mantis after a couple of years absence (the Preying mantis that is), there have been some babies…just hope the birds aren’t keeping them down…

Saw a very large praying mantis while washing the mud spots(precipitation) off my windows with precious water. It was up under the eaves with the paper wasps.

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Various types of wasps.. eat various types of insects or larvae. If one looks, one will see many of them in the garden.

Gotta love wasps, and the muddies don’t sting…I’ve been anxiously awaiting the return of the praying mantis after a couple of years absence (the Preying mantis that is), there have been some babies…just hope the birds aren’t keeping them down…

Saw a very large praying mantis while washing the mud spots(precipitation) off my windows with precious water. It was up under the eaves with the paper wasps.

Some people are so lucky!! I had lots and lots for many years when I first moved here, but for the past 5 years there’s been no preying mantis nests to speak of…

“(

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

Gotta love wasps, and the muddies don’t sting…I’ve been anxiously awaiting the return of the praying mantis after a couple of years absence (the Preying mantis that is), there have been some babies…just hope the birds aren’t keeping them down…

Saw a very large praying mantis while washing the mud spots(precipitation) off my windows with precious water. It was up under the eaves with the paper wasps.

Some people are so lucky!! I had lots and lots for many years when I first moved here, but for the past 5 years there’s been no preying mantis nests to speak of…

“(

Two reason’s.. either you haven’t had the time to have a good look around..

or

Something has happened.. Something you or your neighbours are doing.. probably not climate change.. has interfered with the balance that existed whence you arrived.

don’t quote me but it could be something as simple as encouraging the wrong birds.

roughbarked said:

don’t quote me but it could be something as simple as encouraging the wrong birds.

Hmmm, I think there’s something in that…

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

don’t quote me but it could be something as simple as encouraging the wrong birds.

Hmmm, I think there’s something in that…

Actually there is.. but as I said; don’t quote me.. I hate having to waste my time with university trained people, trying to qualify that their training proves me incorrect..

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

don’t quote me but it could be something as simple as encouraging the wrong birds.

Hmmm, I think there’s something in that…

Actually there is.. but as I said; don’t quote me.. I hate having to waste my time with university trained people, trying to qualify that their training proves me incorrect..

this reminds me of that bloke that used to work for CSIRO: he developed a soil improvement mixture and an agricultural technique to go with it, but because the results couldn’t be “quantified” he lost his job with CSIRO,,,this is the matter in a nutshell, there was a lot more to it of course…

So in your opinion, what birds, RoughBarked, are hard on preying mantis and mudwasps?

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

Hmmm, I think there’s something in that…

Actually there is.. but as I said; don’t quote me.. I hate having to waste my time with university trained people, trying to qualify that their training proves me incorrect..

this reminds me of that bloke that used to work for CSIRO: he developed a soil improvement mixture and an agricultural technique to go with it, but because the results couldn’t be “quantified” he lost his job with CSIRO,,,this is the matter in a nutshell, there was a lot more to it of course…

So in your opinion, what birds, RoughBarked, are hard on preying mantis and mudwasps?

In part fewer mudwasps could be due to neighbours cleaning their nests off their houses. If there is no mud because it is too dry, you’ll also see fewer mudwasps.
{ a wide range of natural predators have been recorded including invertebrates (dragonflies, robber flies, hornets, centipedes, and spiders), birds (at least 24 species are known to eat wasps, including blackbirds, magpies, starlings) and mammals. } So yeah.. if you have plenty of blackbirds and starlings then you could have the culprits.

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

So in your opinion, what birds, RoughBarked, are hard on preying mantis and mudwasps?

In part fewer mudwasps could be due to neighbours cleaning their nests off their houses. If there is no mud because it is too dry, you’ll also see fewer mudwasps.
{ a wide range of natural predators have been recorded including invertebrates (dragonflies, robber flies, hornets, centipedes, and spiders), birds (at least 24 species are known to eat wasps, including blackbirds, magpies, starlings) and mammals. } So yeah.. if you have plenty of blackbirds and starlings then you could have the culprits.

Oh dear, I cleaned off the mudwasps last year…I don’t normally, but there was 24 nests in one room in the house…so I had a big cleanup except for a couple of nests…there are a lot of magpies and some crows at the moment…the peewees are nowhere to be seen although the willy wagtails are hanging in there…we have no starlings…dragonfly numbers are down as MrD has been keeping the horse’s trough clean (pony puts his feet in it …he has cushing’s…)…I feel like standing in the back yard and yelling “come back! I won’t wash your nests away again…not all of them at once, anyhow…”

How long are mudwasp nests good for? Some last for years but surely the babies have hatched during the interim?

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

So in your opinion, what birds, RoughBarked, are hard on preying mantis and mudwasps?

In part fewer mudwasps could be due to neighbours cleaning their nests off their houses. If there is no mud because it is too dry, you’ll also see fewer mudwasps.
{ a wide range of natural predators have been recorded including invertebrates (dragonflies, robber flies, hornets, centipedes, and spiders), birds (at least 24 species are known to eat wasps, including blackbirds, magpies, starlings) and mammals. } So yeah.. if you have plenty of blackbirds and starlings then you could have the culprits.

Oh dear, I cleaned off the mudwasps last year…I don’t normally, but there was 24 nests in one room in the house…so I had a big cleanup except for a couple of nests…there are a lot of magpies and some crows at the moment…the peewees are nowhere to be seen although the willy wagtails are hanging in there…we have no starlings…dragonfly numbers are down as MrD has been keeping the horse’s trough clean (pony puts his feet in it …he has cushing’s…)…I feel like standing in the back yard and yelling “come back! I won’t wash your nests away again…not all of them at once, anyhow…”

How long are mudwasp nests good for? Some last for years but surely the babies have hatched during the interim?

Mud wasps tend to seal them then reopen them to add a spider in which they lay an egg. The often don’t get back to all of them to fnish the job. but if the young hatch you will see that they have dug their way out of the nest. Also there are other waps that may predate upon the mudwasps by laying their own eggs. http://www.csiro.au/resources/MudWasps.html There are also a couple of good threads on mud wasps in Scribbly gum just search scribbly for mud wasps.

Mud wasps tend to seal them then reopen them to add a spider in which they lay an egg. The often don’t get back to all of them to fnish the job. but if the young hatch you will see that they have dug their way out of the nest. Also there are other waps that may predate upon the mudwasps by laying their own eggs. http://www.csiro.au/resources/MudWasps.html There are also a couple of good threads on mud wasps in Scribbly gum just search scribbly for mud wasps.
—————————-
not sure about the loss of spiders but i do love the wasp waisted local mud builders.
great thread you two.