Date: 4/01/2020 00:17:13
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480567
Subject: Flanagan again again again.

Australia Is Committing Climate Suicide

As record fires rage, the country’s leaders seem intent on sending it to its doom.

By Richard Flanagan

Mr. Flanagan is an Australian novelist.

Jan. 3, 2020, 2:55 a.m. ET

BRUNY ISLAND, Tasmania — Australia today is ground zero for the climate catastrophe. Its glorious Great Barrier Reef is dying, its world-heritage rain forests are burning, its giant kelp forests have largely vanished, numerous towns have run out of water or are about to, and now the vast continent is burning on a scale never before seen.

The images of the fires are a cross between “Mad Max” and “On the Beach”: thousands driven onto beaches in a dull orange haze, crowded tableaux of people and animals almost medieval in their strange muteness — half-Bruegel, half-Bosch, ringed by fire, survivors’ faces hidden behind masks and swimming goggles. Day turns to night as smoke extinguishes all light in the horrifying minutes before the red glow announces the imminence of the inferno. Flames leaping 200 feet into the air. Fire tornadoes. Terrified children at the helm of dinghies, piloting away from the flames, refugees in their own country.

The fires have already burned about 14.5 million acres — an area almost as large as West Virginia, more than triple the area destroyed by the 2018 fires in California and six times the size of the 2019 fires in Amazonia. Canberra’s air on New Year’s Day was the most polluted in the world partly because of a plume of fire smoke as wide as Europe.

Scientists estimate that close to half a billion native animals have been killed and fear that some species of animals and plants may have been wiped out completely. Surviving animals are abandoning their young in what is described as mass “starvation events.” At least 18 people are dead and grave fears are held about many more.

As I write, a state of emergency has been declared in New South Wales and a state of disaster in Victoria, mass evacuations are taking place, a humanitarian catastrophe is feared, and towns up and down the east coast are surrounded by fires, all transport and most communication links cut, their fate unknown.

An email that the retired engineer Ian Mitchell sent to friends on New Year’s Day from the small north Victoria community of Gipsy Point speaks for countless Australians at this moment of catastrophe:

“All

we and most of Gipsy Point houses still here as of now. We have 16 people in Gipsy pt.

No power, no phone no chance of anyone arriving for 4 days as all roads blocked. Only satellite email is working We have 2 bigger boats and might be able to get supplies ‘esp fuel at Coota.

We need more able people to defend the town as we are in for bad heat from Friday again. Tucks area will be a problem from today, but trees down on all tracks, and no one to fight it.

We are tired, but ok.

But we are here in 2020!

Love

Us”

The bookstore in the fire-ravaged village of Cobargo, New South Wales, has a new sign outside: “Post-Apocalyptic Fiction has been moved to Current Affairs.”

And yet, incredibly, the response of Australia’s leaders to this unprecedented national crisis has been not to defend their country but to defend the coal industry, a big donor to both major parties — as if they were willing the country to its doom. While the fires were exploding in mid-December, the leader of the opposition Labor Party went on a tour of coal mines expressing his unequivocal support for coal exports. The prime minister, the conservative Scott Morrison, went on vacation to Hawaii.

Since 1996 successive conservative Australian governments have successfully fought to subvert international agreements on climate change in defense of the country’s fossil fuel industries. Today, Australia is the world’s largest exporter of both coal and gas. It recently was ranked 57th out of 57 countries on climate-change action.

In no small part Mr. Morrison owes his narrow election victory earlier this year to the coal-mining oligarch Clive Palmer, who formed a puppet party to keep the Labor Party — which had been committed to limited but real climate-change action — out of government. Mr. Palmer’s advertising budget for the campaign was more than double that of the two major parties combined. Mr. Palmer subsequently announced plans to build the biggest coal mine in Australia.

Since Mr. Morrison, an ex-marketing man, was forced to return from his vacation and publicly apologize, he has chosen to spend his time creating feel-good images of himself, posing with cricketers or his family. He is seen far less often at the fires’ front lines, visiting ravaged communities or with survivors. Mr. Morrison has tried to present the fires as catastrophe-as-usual, nothing out of the ordinary.

This posture seems to be a chilling political calculation: With no effective opposition from a Labor Party reeling from its election loss and with media dominated by Rupert Murdoch — 58 percent of daily newspaper circulation — firmly behind his climate denialism, Mr. Morrison appears to hope that he will prevail as long as he doesn’t acknowledge the magnitude of the disaster engulfing Australia.

Mr. Morrison made his name as immigration minister, perfecting the cruelty of a policy that interns refugees in hellish Pacific-island camps, and seems indifferent to human suffering. Now his government has taken a disturbing authoritarian turn, cracking down on unions, civic organizations and journalists. Under legislation pending in Tasmania, and expected to be copied across Australia, environmental protesters now face up to 21 years in jail for demonstrating.

“Australia is a burning nation led by cowards,” wrote the leading broadcaster Hugh Riminton, speaking for many. He might have added “idiots,” after Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack blamed the fires on exploding horse manure.

More than one-third of Australians are estimated to be affected by the fires. By a significant and increasing majority, Australians want action on climate change, and they are now asking questions of the growing gap between the Morrison government’s ideological fantasies and the reality of a dried-out, rapidly heating, burning Australia.

The situation is eerily reminiscent of the Soviet Union in the 1980s, when the ruling apparatchik were all-powerful but losing the fundamental, moral legitimacy to govern. In Australia today, a political establishment, grown sclerotic and demented on its own fantasies, is facing a monstrous reality which it has neither the ability nor the will to confront.

Mr. Morrison may have a massive propaganda machine in the Murdoch press and no opposition, but his moral authority is bleeding away by the hour. On Thursday, after walking away from a woman asking for help, he was forced to flee the angry, heckling residents of a burned-out town. A local conservative politician described his own leader’s humiliation as “the welcome he probably deserved.”

As Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Soviet leader, once observed, the collapse of the Soviet Union began with the nuclear disaster at Chernobyl in 1986. In the wake of that catastrophe, “the system as we knew it became untenable,” he wrote in 2006. Could it be that the immense, still-unfolding tragedy of the Australian fires may yet prove to be the Chernobyl of climate crisis?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/australia-fires-climate-change.html

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:11:21
From: sibeen
ID: 1480573
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:

An email that the retired engineer Ian Mitchell sent to friends on New Year’s Day from the small north Victoria community of Gipsy Point speaks for countless Australians at this moment of catastrophe:

“All

we and most of Gipsy Point houses still here as of now. We have 16 people in Gipsy pt.

No power, no phone no chance of anyone arriving for 4 days as all roads blocked. Only satellite email is working We have 2 bigger boats and might be able to get supplies ‘esp fuel at Coota.

We need more able people to defend the town as we are in for bad heat from Friday again. Tucks area will be a problem from today, but trees down on all tracks, and no one to fight it.

We are tired, but ok.

But we are here in 2020!

Love

Us”

This is what in some way annoys me. I know Gypsy Point very, very well. I love the place. It’s about 15 ks out of Mallacoota and I’ve spent many summers taking mine and other kids boating, fishing, skiing up off the jetty up there. But every single time I’ve driven into the joint I have thought about how fucked it would be if a fire came through. The drought that has hit this region over the last few years is severe, no doubt about that, but realistically GP has always been a place that has lived on the edge.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:15:00
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480575
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

An email that the retired engineer Ian Mitchell sent to friends on New Year’s Day from the small north Victoria community of Gipsy Point speaks for countless Australians at this moment of catastrophe:

“All

we and most of Gipsy Point houses still here as of now. We have 16 people in Gipsy pt.

No power, no phone no chance of anyone arriving for 4 days as all roads blocked. Only satellite email is working We have 2 bigger boats and might be able to get supplies ‘esp fuel at Coota.

We need more able people to defend the town as we are in for bad heat from Friday again. Tucks area will be a problem from today, but trees down on all tracks, and no one to fight it.

We are tired, but ok.

But we are here in 2020!

Love

Us”

This is what in some way annoys me. I know Gypsy Point very, very well. I love the place. It’s about 15 ks out of Mallacoota and I’ve spent many summers taking mine and other kids boating, fishing, skiing up off the jetty up there. But every single time I’ve driven into the joint I have thought about how fucked it would be if a fire came through. The drought that has hit this region over the last few years is severe, no doubt about that, but realistically GP has always been a place that has lived on the edge.

I live on the edge.
There is one road on my mountain.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:22:31
From: sibeen
ID: 1480576
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:


sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

An email that the retired engineer Ian Mitchell sent to friends on New Year’s Day from the small north Victoria community of Gipsy Point speaks for countless Australians at this moment of catastrophe:

“All

we and most of Gipsy Point houses still here as of now. We have 16 people in Gipsy pt.

No power, no phone no chance of anyone arriving for 4 days as all roads blocked. Only satellite email is working We have 2 bigger boats and might be able to get supplies ‘esp fuel at Coota.

We need more able people to defend the town as we are in for bad heat from Friday again. Tucks area will be a problem from today, but trees down on all tracks, and no one to fight it.

We are tired, but ok.

But we are here in 2020!

Love

Us”

This is what in some way annoys me. I know Gypsy Point very, very well. I love the place. It’s about 15 ks out of Mallacoota and I’ve spent many summers taking mine and other kids boating, fishing, skiing up off the jetty up there. But every single time I’ve driven into the joint I have thought about how fucked it would be if a fire came through. The drought that has hit this region over the last few years is severe, no doubt about that, but realistically GP has always been a place that has lived on the edge.

I live on the edge.
There is one road on my mountain.

For Gypsy Point it’s off the road to Mallacoota, basically a side track. If the road to Mallacoota is cut off, and it is, you can guarantee that GP is also isolated. It really is a small collection of houses with a jetty and a quite high end type ‘accommodation’ for those who want to get back to nature.

I’m peed off, I cannot find photos on this computer of the place. I thought I had a heap but can’t find where I put them. Had some grouse goanna photos.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:24:41
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480577
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

This is what in some way annoys me. I know Gypsy Point very, very well. I love the place. It’s about 15 ks out of Mallacoota and I’ve spent many summers taking mine and other kids boating, fishing, skiing up off the jetty up there. But every single time I’ve driven into the joint I have thought about how fucked it would be if a fire came through. The drought that has hit this region over the last few years is severe, no doubt about that, but realistically GP has always been a place that has lived on the edge.

I live on the edge.
There is one road on my mountain.

For Gypsy Point it’s off the road to Mallacoota, basically a side track. If the road to Mallacoota is cut off, and it is, you can guarantee that GP is also isolated. It really is a small collection of houses with a jetty and a quite high end type ‘accommodation’ for those who want to get back to nature.

I’m peed off, I cannot find photos on this computer of the place. I thought I had a heap but can’t find where I put them. Had some grouse goanna photos.

So why are you angry? because some are trying to defend it? Or because the resources aren’t there to defend? I don’t understand.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:29:15
From: sibeen
ID: 1480579
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:


sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

I live on the edge.
There is one road on my mountain.

For Gypsy Point it’s off the road to Mallacoota, basically a side track. If the road to Mallacoota is cut off, and it is, you can guarantee that GP is also isolated. It really is a small collection of houses with a jetty and a quite high end type ‘accommodation’ for those who want to get back to nature.

I’m peed off, I cannot find photos on this computer of the place. I thought I had a heap but can’t find where I put them. Had some grouse goanna photos.

So why are you angry? because some are trying to defend it? Or because the resources aren’t there to defend? I don’t understand.

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:33:42
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480581
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

For Gypsy Point it’s off the road to Mallacoota, basically a side track. If the road to Mallacoota is cut off, and it is, you can guarantee that GP is also isolated. It really is a small collection of houses with a jetty and a quite high end type ‘accommodation’ for those who want to get back to nature.

I’m peed off, I cannot find photos on this computer of the place. I thought I had a heap but can’t find where I put them. Had some grouse goanna photos.

So why are you angry? because some are trying to defend it? Or because the resources aren’t there to defend? I don’t understand.

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.


Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:34:47
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480582
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:


sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

So why are you angry? because some are trying to defend it? Or because the resources aren’t there to defend? I don’t understand.

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.


Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

Actually…truth is that it is amazing more people aren’t dead considering how much has burnt.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 01:38:47
From: sibeen
ID: 1480583
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:


sibeen said:

sarahs mum said:

So why are you angry? because some are trying to defend it? Or because the resources aren’t there to defend? I don’t understand.

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.


Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

But that has always been the case. If a big fire goes through then even a medium sized town is under threat. That hasn’t suddenly changed since the last federal election.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 06:00:54
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1480596
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:


sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.


Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

Actually…truth is that it is amazing more people aren’t dead considering how much has burnt.

I happened to notice something. Bushfires this season have burnt the bush. (Cynical view. Get rid of the bush and there wouldn’t be much in the way of bushfires).

That’s different from other seasons, where even tiny pockets of land less than 100 metres across have burnt. Or where the fires have been accompanied by winds so fierce that the wind speed alone would constitute a disaster.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 07:08:05
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480603
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.


Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

But that has always been the case. If a big fire goes through then even a medium sized town is under threat. That hasn’t suddenly changed since the last federal election.

And neither has the resources to be able to fight the threat.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 07:09:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480604
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

mollwollfumble said:


sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

Actually…truth is that it is amazing more people aren’t dead considering how much has burnt.

I happened to notice something. Bushfires this season have burnt the bush. (Cynical view. Get rid of the bush and there wouldn’t be much in the way of bushfires).

That’s different from other seasons, where even tiny pockets of land less than 100 metres across have burnt. Or where the fires have been accompanied by winds so fierce that the wind speed alone would constitute a disaster.

There are people in Asustralia who pray for the day the last of the bush is killed off. They are scared of it.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 07:13:16
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1480606
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


mollwollfumble said:

sarahs mum said:

Actually…truth is that it is amazing more people aren’t dead considering how much has burnt.

I happened to notice something. Bushfires this season have burnt the bush. (Cynical view. Get rid of the bush and there wouldn’t be much in the way of bushfires).

That’s different from other seasons, where even tiny pockets of land less than 100 metres across have burnt. Or where the fires have been accompanied by winds so fierce that the wind speed alone would constitute a disaster.

There are people in Asustralia who pray for the day the last of the bush is killed off. They are scared of it.

That’s crazy.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 07:19:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480608
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

mollwollfumble said:


roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

I happened to notice something. Bushfires this season have burnt the bush. (Cynical view. Get rid of the bush and there wouldn’t be much in the way of bushfires).

That’s different from other seasons, where even tiny pockets of land less than 100 metres across have burnt. Or where the fires have been accompanied by winds so fierce that the wind speed alone would constitute a disaster.

There are people in Asustralia who pray for the day the last of the bush is killed off. They are scared of it.

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 08:54:25
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1480622
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

There are people in Asustralia who pray for the day the last of the bush is killed off. They are scared of it.

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 09:02:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480623
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

I’ll go.

First ,though, someone will have to work out where i came from.

Seems that Ireland is most likely, but it seems England, France, and Germany get a look in as well.

Then if someone would be so kind as to persuade the lucky winner to take me, and will cover the expenses, then i’ll go and leave the mining companies and the Chinese government to squabble over whatever’s left here that hasn’t been reduced to ashes.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 09:04:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480624
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

I’ll go.

First ,though, someone will have to work out where i came from.

Seems that Ireland is most likely, but it seems England, France, and Germany get a look in as well.

Then if someone would be so kind as to persuade the lucky winner to take me, and will cover the expenses, then i’ll go and leave the mining companies and the Chinese government to squabble over whatever’s left here that hasn’t been reduced to ashes.

Sings, we don’t know what we’ve got til it’s gone.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 09:07:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480626
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

I’ll go.

First ,though, someone will have to work out where i came from.

Seems that Ireland is most likely, but it seems England, France, and Germany get a look in as well.

Then if someone would be so kind as to persuade the lucky winner to take me, and will cover the expenses, then i’ll go and leave the mining companies and the Chinese government to squabble over whatever’s left here that hasn’t been reduced to ashes.

Sings, we don’t know what we’ve got til it’s gone.

I’m just getting tired of the bullshit. The mining companies are the government these days, and the Chinese will eventually own the whole place – it’s just a question of the means they use to acquire it.

Why wait around for the inevitable?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 09:08:53
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480629
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I’ll go.

First ,though, someone will have to work out where i came from.

Seems that Ireland is most likely, but it seems England, France, and Germany get a look in as well.

Then if someone would be so kind as to persuade the lucky winner to take me, and will cover the expenses, then i’ll go and leave the mining companies and the Chinese government to squabble over whatever’s left here that hasn’t been reduced to ashes.

Sings, we don’t know what we’ve got til it’s gone.

I’m just getting tired of the bullshit. The mining companies are the government these days, and the Chinese will eventually own the whole place – it’s just a question of the means they use to acquire it.

Why wait around for the inevitable?

Yeah.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 09:25:58
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1480630
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

I’ll go.

First ,though, someone will have to work out where i came from.

Seems that Ireland is most likely, but it seems England, France, and Germany get a look in as well.

Then if someone would be so kind as to persuade the lucky winner to take me, and will cover the expenses, then i’ll go and leave the mining companies and the Chinese government to squabble over whatever’s left here that hasn’t been reduced to ashes.

No, where they really came from, Africa.

The current Africans might not be that keen to let them in though.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 09:33:43
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1480631
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Anyway, welcome to the 20’s

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 10:47:26
From: transition
ID: 1480645
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

there is a bogan type, could be characterized if it moved shoot it, if it stands up knock it down, however the saying goes, toward the natural environment, they’ve done a lot of work clearing the way (variously territory) for more respectable types, and the latter breed excessively too, I guess the latter are competing with the bogans, anyway it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some symbiotic relationship between the classes

the generalization to whites though is a bit dubious, or is it, given the

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 10:50:46
From: transition
ID: 1480647
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

there is a bogan type, could be characterized if it moved shoot it, if it stands up knock it down, however the saying goes, toward the natural environment, they’ve done a lot of work clearing the way (variously territory) for more respectable types, and the latter breed excessively too, I guess the latter are competing with the bogans, anyway it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some symbiotic relationship between the classes

the generalization to whites though is a bit dubious, or is it, given the

and there’s an unfinished sentence on the end

I banged a large concrete trough lid down on my pointer finger shortly ago, it’s hurting

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 10:51:25
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1480648
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

there is a bogan type, could be characterized if it moved shoot it, if it stands up knock it down, however the saying goes, toward the natural environment, they’ve done a lot of work clearing the way (variously territory) for more respectable types, and the latter breed excessively too, I guess the latter are competing with the bogans, anyway it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some symbiotic relationship between the classes

the generalization to whites though is a bit dubious, or is it, given the

given the …

Yes the ,,, does always seem to be there in the background.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 10:54:05
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1480649
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/03/we-are-seeing-the-very-worst-of-our-scientific-predictions-come-to-pass-in-these-bushfires

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 10:58:40
From: party_pants
ID: 1480650
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

There are people in Asustralia who pray for the day the last of the bush is killed off. They are scared of it.

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:01:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480652
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

transition said:


transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yeah those bloody whities. Should go back to where they came from, every one of them.

there is a bogan type, could be characterized if it moved shoot it, if it stands up knock it down, however the saying goes, toward the natural environment, they’ve done a lot of work clearing the way (variously territory) for more respectable types, and the latter breed excessively too, I guess the latter are competing with the bogans, anyway it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some symbiotic relationship between the classes

the generalization to whites though is a bit dubious, or is it, given the

and there’s an unfinished sentence on the end

I banged a large concrete trough lid down on my pointer finger shortly ago, it’s hurting

ouch.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:02:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480654
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Can i continue to think of myself as Paraguayan?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:02:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480655
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:04:56
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480656
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


transition said:

transition said:

there is a bogan type, could be characterized if it moved shoot it, if it stands up knock it down, however the saying goes, toward the natural environment, they’ve done a lot of work clearing the way (variously territory) for more respectable types, and the latter breed excessively too, I guess the latter are competing with the bogans, anyway it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some symbiotic relationship between the classes

the generalization to whites though is a bit dubious, or is it, given the

and there’s an unfinished sentence on the end

I banged a large concrete trough lid down on my pointer finger shortly ago, it’s hurting

ouch.

Needs medical attention?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:05:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480657
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Can i continue to think of myself as Paraguayan?

No reason we should disidentify. Simply assimilate Australian ways of existence rather than wanting English country gardens or Italian style villas blah, even to not clearing sensitive bushland to make it look like Afghanistan or declaring the land you are sitting on to belongs to Islam.. and etc.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:08:12
From: transition
ID: 1480659
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

you ever noticed humans are expansionist, sort of makes Adolf’s program look at a historically redundant, the lesson

nestled in the self-organizing philosophy of democracy, freedom and all, too many is still too many

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:10:06
From: transition
ID: 1480661
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

transition said:


you ever noticed humans are expansionist, sort of makes Adolf’s program look at a a bit historically redundant, the lesson

nestled in the self-organizing philosophy of democracy, freedom and all, too many is still too many

fixed

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:10:50
From: Tamb
ID: 1480662
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.


Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:12:55
From: party_pants
ID: 1480665
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Can i continue to think of myself as Paraguayan?

that would hardly be an improvement.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:14:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480666
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.


Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:16:19
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480667
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Can i continue to think of myself as Paraguayan?

No reason we should disidentify. Simply assimilate Australian ways of existence rather than wanting English country gardens or Italian style villas blah, even to not clearing sensitive bushland to make it look like Afghanistan or declaring the land you are sitting on to belongs to Islam.. and etc.

If you want to live in Australia on land that looks like Afghanistan, you just need to be careful about which bit of land you buy. No clearing needed.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:17:09
From: Tamb
ID: 1480668
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.


Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.


I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:17:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480669
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

party_pants said:


captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Can i continue to think of myself as Paraguayan?

that would hardly be an improvement.

Becoming Irlandes?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:18:43
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480671
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Can i continue to think of myself as Paraguayan?

No reason we should disidentify. Simply assimilate Australian ways of existence rather than wanting English country gardens or Italian style villas blah, even to not clearing sensitive bushland to make it look like Afghanistan or declaring the land you are sitting on to belongs to Islam.. and etc.

If you want to live in Australia on land that looks like Afghanistan, you just need to be careful about which bit of land you buy. No clearing needed.

Yes I am aware. You do know what I am talking about though.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:19:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480672
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.


I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Same here. They were talking about my demeanour rather than my looks.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:19:59
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1480673
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.


Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.

Have to search all your lineage and not just your surname and your mother’s maiden name. My family has been here only 150 years but i still have 16 bloodlines. Only one of them had Aboriginal ancestry and i think that was enough to give the family a culturally diverse understanding of the world.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:20:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480675
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.


Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.

On the other hand, i know of a lady of undoubted Aboriginal lineage who was refused a job with a land council because she was ‘of insufficiently outward Aboriginal appearance’.

I asked her what they meant.

‘Basically’, she said, ‘they mean i’m not black enough. But i’m a bloody sight more ‘black’ than a lot of people working there.’

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:20:55
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1480676
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.


I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Aboriginal children often have some fair hair in their youth.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:21:42
From: Tamb
ID: 1480679
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.


I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Same here. They were talking about my demeanour rather than my looks.


I live in FNQ It could be that we all have something like koori demeanour.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:22:41
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1480681
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Same here. They were talking about my demeanour rather than my looks.


I live in FNQ It could be that we all have something like koori demeanour.

Aye.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:23:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480683
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Witty Rejoinder said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.

Have to search all your lineage and not just your surname and your mother’s maiden name. My family has been here only 150 years but i still have 16 bloodlines. Only one of them had Aboriginal ancestry and i think that was enough to give the family a culturally diverse understanding of the world.

Fair enough.
My WIKItree shows it all going back to Ireland, England, Bavaria, France, Norway etc.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:23:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480684
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Being a multi generational Aussie I simply regard myself as Australian. Possibly even indigenous.

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.

On the other hand, i know of a lady of undoubted Aboriginal lineage who was refused a job with a land council because she was ‘of insufficiently outward Aboriginal appearance’.

I asked her what they meant.

‘Basically’, she said, ‘they mean i’m not black enough. But i’m a bloody sight more ‘black’ than a lot of people working there.’

Yeah. I’ve seen that sort of thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:24:51
From: Tamb
ID: 1480686
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.


I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Aboriginal children often have some fair hair in their youth.


I spend 9 days a month at Red Cross with mainly Aboriginal & Torres Straight people. I’ve got to know a lot more of their culture.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:28:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480688
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Tamb said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Tamb said:

I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Aboriginal children often have some fair hair in their youth.


I spend 9 days a month at Red Cross with mainly Aboriginal & Torres Straight people. I’ve got to know a lot more of their culture.

The indigenous educators at work are good. You can ask them pretty much anything you want, and they’ll explain. Helps you to get rid of a lot of half-baked ideas and misconceptions, including some that are propagated by the media.

For a while, two of them had an office in rear of the building where i was. Their description of it was ‘it’s black out the back’.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:33:13
From: party_pants
ID: 1480691
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

I didn’t mean becoming like or adopting indigenous ideas. I meant a more secular and scientific approach. Understanding the Australian bush and landscape and adapting our towns and settlement patterns to suit the country, not the other way around. There are places that are likely to become death traps in the event of a “big one”. However nice it might be to live in the bush and close to nature, there has to be some planning for worst case scenarios. You can’t just have everybody doing as they please.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:37:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1480694
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

party_pants said:

There are places that are likely to become death traps in the event of a “big one”. However nice it might be to live in the bush and close to nature, there has to be some planning for worst case scenarios. You can’t just have everybody doing as they please.

This is true, and you’re right, a lot of people never consider the worst and just imagine it will always be good.

I’ve refused to consider buying a house because it (closely) bordered a State forest. I looked over the fence, and thought ‘it’s not question of ‘if’, but of ‘when’…’

My dad was a NSW volunteer fireman (not bushfire brigade) for a long time, and he had some things to say about people who set up house in ‘bushland settings’.

I won’t repeat them here.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:43:22
From: Tamb
ID: 1480700
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:
There are places that are likely to become death traps in the event of a “big one”. However nice it might be to live in the bush and close to nature, there has to be some planning for worst case scenarios. You can’t just have everybody doing as they please.

This is true, and you’re right, a lot of people never consider the worst and just imagine it will always be good.

I’ve refused to consider buying a house because it (closely) bordered a State forest. I looked over the fence, and thought ‘it’s not question of ‘if’, but of ‘when’…’

My dad was a NSW volunteer fireman (not bushfire brigade) for a long time, and he had some things to say about people who set up house in ‘bushland settings’.

I won’t repeat them here.


There is an area near us from where, given a big fire, it would be impossible to escape. We walked through the area & decided that there was one place which could be a safe refuge if a few changes were made.
We spoke to the people who owned this land and they were very sensible & cooperative. They spent their own money making the place safe for themselves & their neighbours.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:48:00
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1480702
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

party_pants said:


I didn’t mean becoming like or adopting indigenous ideas. I meant a more secular and scientific approach. Understanding the Australian bush and landscape and adapting our towns and settlement patterns to suit the country, not the other way around. There are places that are likely to become death traps in the event of a “big one”. However nice it might be to live in the bush and close to nature, there has to be some planning for worst case scenarios. You can’t just have everybody doing as they please.

Property loss is inevitable in any disaster-prone area. It’s lives lost that should be the metric. Given that though sensible precautions would mean depopulating Naples let alone Indonesia or Japan. There are always going to be unpredictable disasters that test us but economically it sometimes better to just ride with it. And remember rebuilding adds to GDP. :-)

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:49:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480706
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

Witty Rejoinder said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

I’ve even been asked by the local Women’s elders group if I had any koori in me. To which my reply was, not that I know of. My birth certificate says who my parents were and I know where they came from.
The women reckoned I was more koori than a lot of kooris they knew.


I can’t do that one. Fair hair, blue eyes, white fella legs.

Aboriginal children often have some fair hair in their youth.

This is very true.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 11:51:16
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480708
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

party_pants said:


I didn’t mean becoming like or adopting indigenous ideas. I meant a more secular and scientific approach. Understanding the Australian bush and landscape and adapting our towns and settlement patterns to suit the country, not the other way around. There are places that are likely to become death traps in the event of a “big one”. However nice it might be to live in the bush and close to nature, there has to be some planning for worst case scenarios. You can’t just have everybody doing as they please.

Kambalda was designed to fit in and around the native bushland by an American but the nurseries in town seemed to only sell introduced exotic plants. So the plan basically went to shit.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 12:35:26
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480759
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


mollwollfumble said:

roughbarked said:

There are people in Asustralia who pray for the day the last of the bush is killed off. They are scared of it.

That’s crazy.

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

I read one of those last night. National parks? Who needs them?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 12:44:45
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480766
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:
There are places that are likely to become death traps in the event of a “big one”. However nice it might be to live in the bush and close to nature, there has to be some planning for worst case scenarios. You can’t just have everybody doing as they please.

This is true, and you’re right, a lot of people never consider the worst and just imagine it will always be good.

I’ve refused to consider buying a house because it (closely) bordered a State forest. I looked over the fence, and thought ‘it’s not question of ‘if’, but of ‘when’…’

My dad was a NSW volunteer fireman (not bushfire brigade) for a long time, and he had some things to say about people who set up house in ‘bushland settings’.

I won’t repeat them here.

Surrounded on most sides. And I love it.

But lately it is getting to me.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:22:27
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 1480777
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

It is actually the mentality of the white people. They don’t really want any of Australia except the beaches and even there they want to kill all the sharks etc.

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.

Why?

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:27:07
From: party_pants
ID: 1480779
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.

Why?

I don’t mean giving up cultural and family connections to Old Dart. I mean more the way we set up infrastructure, housing, town planning and so on. The physical environment we build.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:27:55
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1480780
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.

Why?

Your old country won’t exist in a couple of years.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:35:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480785
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Maybe this is the tipping point to get people to stop thinking like they are European or British?

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.

Why?

Just don’t bring it with us. Yeah I know, gate unlocked horse bolted but we can always turf all that shyte.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:36:36
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1480788
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

Yep. We gotta forgeta the olda the country.

Why?

Just don’t bring it with us. Yeah I know, gate unlocked horse bolted but we can always turf all that shyte.

turf is european.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:40:01
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480791
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

JudgeMental said:


roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why?

Just don’t bring it with us. Yeah I know, gate unlocked horse bolted but we can always turf all that shyte.

turf is european.

I didn’t mean turf it over other than over the fence and out of here.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:40:38
From: JudgeMental
ID: 1480792
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


JudgeMental said:

roughbarked said:

Just don’t bring it with us. Yeah I know, gate unlocked horse bolted but we can always turf all that shyte.

turf is european.

I didn’t mean turf it over other than over the fence and out of here.

I know.

:-)

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:40:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480793
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

roughbarked said:


JudgeMental said:

roughbarked said:

Just don’t bring it with us. Yeah I know, gate unlocked horse bolted but we can always turf all that shyte.

turf is european.

I didn’t mean turf it over other than over the fence and out of here.

The bastards even make us stand out in the midday sun with a willow stick.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 13:41:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 1480794
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

JudgeMental said:


roughbarked said:

JudgeMental said:

turf is european.

I didn’t mean turf it over other than over the fence and out of here.

I know.

:-)

Thought so.
Just havin’ a lend eh.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/01/2020 16:28:24
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1480896
Subject: re: Flanagan again again again.

sarahs mum said:


sarahs mum said:

sibeen said:

Because the email was basically ‘woe is me, why isn’t anyone helping’. It’s an indefensible area and the person who wrote the email knows this.


Seems like most of the East coast is indefensible.

Actually…truth is that it is amazing more people aren’t dead considering how much has burnt.

I think I may have spoken too soon. :(

Reply Quote