Date: 8/01/2020 12:18:13
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483136
Subject: Fighting fires

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:23:25
From: Tamb
ID: 1483149
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?


Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:25:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483153
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?


Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:26:57
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483155
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?


Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:26:59
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1483156
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?


Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

Hmm. Trees and tree roots to burn for a long time after the fire has passed. Doesn’t seem impossible, though, in relatively unvegitated terrain where water is precious.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:28:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483158
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tamb said:

Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:28:24
From: Tamb
ID: 1483159
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tamb said:

Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.


Like one of those snow plough thingies.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:30:48
From: Obviousman
ID: 1483162
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?


Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

Thunderbirds!

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:33:37
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483163
Subject: re: Fighting fires

mollwollfumble said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tamb said:

Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

Hmm. Trees and tree roots to burn for a long time after the fire has passed. Doesn’t seem impossible, though, in relatively unvegitated terrain where water is precious.

Gum trees burn around 1100°C flame base

the smouldering still has high temperatures

what temps could a machine work up to?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 12:35:11
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 1483164
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Obviousman said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tamb said:

Gets a bit warm behind the fire.

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

Thunderbirds!

Fab idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:33:15
From: party_pants
ID: 1483207
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

Such a machine does not exist. Dirt and ash are very heavy, regardless of particle size. It takes the same amount of work (in physics terms) to trow a tonne of sand 50m as it does to throw a 1 tonne rock 50m. The power (the rate at which the work is done) might be different but the work is still significant. It takes a large amount of energy to pick up dirt and throw it.

Furthermore, the usual method for throwing dirt is to mix it with water to create a slurry, and then move the slurry with pumps. It is hard to see how a machine could throw dry particles of ash or sand and great distance. It would have to be a slurry.

So your machine will not only be big and heavy to carry a large enough engine to generate enough energy to perform the work, it will also need to tow or carry its own water supply and mixer to create a the slurry.

By the way, this is what fire retardant is that aeroplanes drop. Usually a powdered fertisler and water mixture with a bright coloured dye added so they can see where it lands. Seems to be more effective than just dropping water. But it does require a mixing plant at an airfield to reload the aeroplane each time.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:38:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483208
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

Such a machine does not exist. Dirt and ash are very heavy, regardless of particle size. It takes the same amount of work (in physics terms) to trow a tonne of sand 50m as it does to throw a 1 tonne rock 50m. The power (the rate at which the work is done) might be different but the work is still significant. It takes a large amount of energy to pick up dirt and throw it.

Furthermore, the usual method for throwing dirt is to mix it with water to create a slurry, and then move the slurry with pumps. It is hard to see how a machine could throw dry particles of ash or sand and great distance. It would have to be a slurry.

So your machine will not only be big and heavy to carry a large enough engine to generate enough energy to perform the work, it will also need to tow or carry its own water supply and mixer to create a the slurry.

By the way, this is what fire retardant is that aeroplanes drop. Usually a powdered fertisler and water mixture with a bright coloured dye added so they can see where it lands. Seems to be more effective than just dropping water. But it does require a mixing plant at an airfield to reload the aeroplane each time.

ok well maybe some universities should try to work something out with experiments,

1 using dry method

2 using the slurry method

3 other mixtures.

keep the machine size down

keep the water usage down

I would like to see the dry method work because no water is needed

but yes, many obstacles.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:47:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1483213
Subject: re: Fighting fires

They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:49:48
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483216
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Peak Warming Man said:


They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

Im visualising some sort of corkscrew machine on the burnt side, throwing burnt stuff on the fire to suffocate it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:52:19
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1483221
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Peak Warming Man said:


They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

They used it very effectively to make containment lines around properties here during the fires.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:54:52
From: Tamb
ID: 1483228
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Peak Warming Man said:


Peak Warming Man said:

They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

They used it very effectively to make containment lines around properties here during the fires.


Yes. A dozer track is a quick & easy way to make a containment line.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 13:59:28
From: buffy
ID: 1483233
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:09:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483240
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:

What if fires were smothered from behind using the ash and dirt?

You need something to suck the oxygen backwards.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:12:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483244
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

yeah, im think some sort of remote controlled bulldozer

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

You are off your tits as usual.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:14:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483248
Subject: re: Fighting fires

buffy said:


Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

That’s a good question, I have been wondering that myself, obvious factors are wind, dryness…

goes searching

between 16 and 20 kilometers per hour

some may modv faster due to wind

https://sciencing.com/fast-can-forest-fires-spread-23730.html

A wildfire’s speed is often judged as its forward rate of spread, which describes the pace at which its leading edge advances perpendicular to the fire front. The authors of the book “Grassfires: Fuel, Weather and Fire Behaviour” indicate that the general maximum speed of between 16 and 20 kilometers per hour (9 to 12.5 mph) for wildfires. A fire’s forward rate of spread naturally depends on many factors, particularly wind and other weather conditions, fuel type and condition, and terrain.

How Fire Behaves
https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/plan-prepare/how-fire-behaves

Bushfire
https://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/community-safety/bushfire

Grassland Fire Spread Meter
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Extreme-Events/Bushfire/Fire-danger-meters/Grass-fire-spread-meter

The Terrifying Physics Of How Wildfires Spread So Fast
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/09/06/the-terrifying-physics-of-how-wildfires-spread-so-fast/#140bc30a7791

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:18:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483252
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

Such a machine does not exist. Dirt and ash are very heavy, regardless of particle size. It takes the same amount of work (in physics terms) to trow a tonne of sand 50m as it does to throw a 1 tonne rock 50m. The power (the rate at which the work is done) might be different but the work is still significant. It takes a large amount of energy to pick up dirt and throw it.

Furthermore, the usual method for throwing dirt is to mix it with water to create a slurry, and then move the slurry with pumps. It is hard to see how a machine could throw dry particles of ash or sand and great distance. It would have to be a slurry.

So your machine will not only be big and heavy to carry a large enough engine to generate enough energy to perform the work, it will also need to tow or carry its own water supply and mixer to create a the slurry.

By the way, this is what fire retardant is that aeroplanes drop. Usually a powdered fertisler and water mixture with a bright coloured dye added so they can see where it lands. Seems to be more effective than just dropping water. But it does require a mixing plant at an airfield to reload the aeroplane each time.

ok well maybe some universities should try to work something out with experiments,

1 using dry method

2 using the slurry method

3 other mixtures.

keep the machine size down

keep the water usage down

I would like to see the dry method work because no water is needed

but yes, many obstacles.

You just don’t get it do you?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:18:16
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483253
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

You are off your tits as usual.

Does stuff already burnt burn again ?

some corkscrew machine throwing burnt stuff at the fire base.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:19:05
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483254
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

party_pants said:

Such a machine does not exist. Dirt and ash are very heavy, regardless of particle size. It takes the same amount of work (in physics terms) to trow a tonne of sand 50m as it does to throw a 1 tonne rock 50m. The power (the rate at which the work is done) might be different but the work is still significant. It takes a large amount of energy to pick up dirt and throw it.

Furthermore, the usual method for throwing dirt is to mix it with water to create a slurry, and then move the slurry with pumps. It is hard to see how a machine could throw dry particles of ash or sand and great distance. It would have to be a slurry.

So your machine will not only be big and heavy to carry a large enough engine to generate enough energy to perform the work, it will also need to tow or carry its own water supply and mixer to create a the slurry.

By the way, this is what fire retardant is that aeroplanes drop. Usually a powdered fertisler and water mixture with a bright coloured dye added so they can see where it lands. Seems to be more effective than just dropping water. But it does require a mixing plant at an airfield to reload the aeroplane each time.

ok well maybe some universities should try to work something out with experiments,

1 using dry method

2 using the slurry method

3 other mixtures.

keep the machine size down

keep the water usage down

I would like to see the dry method work because no water is needed

but yes, many obstacles.

You just don’t get it do you?

Id like to see some experiments

different ideas

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:19:28
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483255
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Peak Warming Man said:

They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

Im visualising some sort of corkscrew machine on the burnt side, throwing burnt stuff on the fire to suffocate it.

Didn’t you see the video of the blokes in the firetruck merely getting out with their skins still on? The truck is fucked though.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:19:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 1483257
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

no not a bulldozer

some sort of machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire.

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

You are off your tits as usual.

It’s quite the regimen: post, have a choof. Repeat.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:21:41
From: party_pants
ID: 1483262
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

Such a machine does not exist. Dirt and ash are very heavy, regardless of particle size. It takes the same amount of work (in physics terms) to trow a tonne of sand 50m as it does to throw a 1 tonne rock 50m. The power (the rate at which the work is done) might be different but the work is still significant. It takes a large amount of energy to pick up dirt and throw it.

Furthermore, the usual method for throwing dirt is to mix it with water to create a slurry, and then move the slurry with pumps. It is hard to see how a machine could throw dry particles of ash or sand and great distance. It would have to be a slurry.

So your machine will not only be big and heavy to carry a large enough engine to generate enough energy to perform the work, it will also need to tow or carry its own water supply and mixer to create a the slurry.

By the way, this is what fire retardant is that aeroplanes drop. Usually a powdered fertisler and water mixture with a bright coloured dye added so they can see where it lands. Seems to be more effective than just dropping water. But it does require a mixing plant at an airfield to reload the aeroplane each time.

ok well maybe some universities should try to work something out with experiments,

1 using dry method

2 using the slurry method

3 other mixtures.

keep the machine size down

keep the water usage down

I would like to see the dry method work because no water is needed

but yes, many obstacles.

I am unaware of any machine currently in use in any industry that uses the dry method, apart from the medieval trebuchet.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:22:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483263
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

They used it very effectively to make containment lines around properties here during the fires.


Yes. A dozer track is a quick & easy way to make a containment line.

Usually far enough away from the fire to get it completed in time. It all depends on the fire. A man on atrctor with a slasher can save hundreds of homes if only he was at the right place at the right time.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:22:11
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483264
Subject: re: Fighting fires

the Canberra fires

what would have worked at the base of the mountain?

back burning how many metres in ?

land clearing how many metres in ?

dumping large amount of water how many metres in ?

doing nothing (that’s what happened)

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:22:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483265
Subject: re: Fighting fires

buffy said:


Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:22:48
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483266
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Peak Warming Man said:

They use dirt in a fashion to fight fires.
They use graders and bulldozers to make fire breaks, it’s very effective.

Im visualising some sort of corkscrew machine on the burnt side, throwing burnt stuff on the fire to suffocate it.

Didn’t you see the video of the blokes in the firetruck merely getting out with their skins still on? The truck is fucked though.

Remote machine no people in it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:24:24
From: Tamb
ID: 1483270
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

They used it very effectively to make containment lines around properties here during the fires.


Yes. A dozer track is a quick & easy way to make a containment line.

Usually far enough away from the fire to get it completed in time. It all depends on the fire. A man on atrctor with a slasher can save hundreds of homes if only he was at the right place at the right time.


Bad conditions allow fire to burn through mown grass.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:25:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483273
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Yes. A dozer track is a quick & easy way to make a containment line.

Usually far enough away from the fire to get it completed in time. It all depends on the fire. A man on atrctor with a slasher can save hundreds of homes if only he was at the right place at the right time.


Bad conditions allow fire to burn through mown grass.

I was referring to those other places and times where this may be possible.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:25:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483274
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

A machine that can throw ash and dirt into the base of the fire while it travels down the length of the fire, but behind the fire.

You are off your tits as usual.

Does stuff already burnt burn again ?

some corkscrew machine throwing burnt stuff at the fire base.

You are still not getting it. Fought any fires lately?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:25:54
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483276
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


buffy said:

Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:27:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483278
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Usually far enough away from the fire to get it completed in time. It all depends on the fire. A man on atrctor with a slasher can save hundreds of homes if only he was at the right place at the right time.


Bad conditions allow fire to burn through mown grass.

I was referring to those other places and times where this may be possible.

Bad conditions allow fire to burn through mown grass.

ploughing to break it up or just turning the soil over

dirt is hard to burn

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:27:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483279
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Im visualising some sort of corkscrew machine on the burnt side, throwing burnt stuff on the fire to suffocate it.

Didn’t you see the video of the blokes in the firetruck merely getting out with their skins still on? The truck is fucked though.

Remote machine no people in it.

Yes but the machine will burn man.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:27:39
From: buffy
ID: 1483280
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower

You haven’t yet factored in the flying embers ahead of the fire. Sometimes km ahead.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:28:59
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483282
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower

So a fire travelling at 20kmph is hit with an 80km wind. add in the factor of flashover and no car can outrun it even your billiion dollar Bugatti.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:29:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483283
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Didn’t you see the video of the blokes in the firetruck merely getting out with their skins still on? The truck is fucked though.

Remote machine no people in it.

Yes but the machine will burn man.

what temps can machines stand?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:29:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483284
Subject: re: Fighting fires

buffy said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower

You haven’t yet factored in the flying embers ahead of the fire. Sometimes km ahead.

In these fires up to 30km.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:30:16
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483286
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Remote machine no people in it.

Yes but the machine will burn man.

what temps can machines stand?

Hold your gas flame on a hydraulic hose? See how long.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:30:41
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483287
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower

So a fire travelling at 20kmph is hit with an 80km wind. add in the factor of flashover and no car can outrun it even your billiion dollar Bugatti.

notice the + sign with wind in brackets

20km per hour + (wind)

depends on the wind behind it

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:31:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483290
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower

So a fire travelling at 20kmph is hit with an 80km wind. add in the factor of flashover and no car can outrun it even your billiion dollar Bugatti.

notice the + sign with wind in brackets

20km per hour + (wind)

depends on the wind behind it

Fires make their own wind and nothing can predict it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:31:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483291
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Yes but the machine will burn man.

what temps can machines stand?

Hold your gas flame on a hydraulic hose? See how long.

hydraulic hoses can be covered

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:32:15
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483294
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

what temps can machines stand?

Hold your gas flame on a hydraulic hose? See how long.

hydraulic hoses can be covered

With aluminium shields?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:32:30
From: Tamb
ID: 1483295
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

buffy said:

Tau, have you got any idea how fast a fire front moves? The large equipment you envisage could not keep up. Some years ago fires jumped out of the Grampians and headed off across the plains. Flat(ish) paddocks. The fire tankers could not keep up with the front. And in a bush situation, you’ve got scrub and uneven ground to contend with.

Yep. Someone has their head attached properly.

around 20km per hour + (wind)

temperature gumtree frires around 11000 degrees

grass fires have lower gumtree forests higher temps

uphill fires travel faster downhill fires travel a bit slower


If there is a wildfire burning then a dozer putting in a break with firies following.Light a backburn at the correct time (This is quite difficult to judge)\
A rule of thumb is to place your driptorch on the ground & when its flame begins to point toward the wildfire it’s time to start the burn.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:33:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483297
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

So a fire travelling at 20kmph is hit with an 80km wind. add in the factor of flashover and no car can outrun it even your billiion dollar Bugatti.

notice the + sign with wind in brackets

20km per hour + (wind)

depends on the wind behind it

Fires make their own wind and nothing can predict it.

True

so fires move betwwen 20 up to 40km ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:34:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483299
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Look Tau. I did point out the obvious earlier but you did miss it but since we were talking about wind, I’ll get back to it. If you are going to build a megafirefighting machine, why not build a huge oxygen depriver?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:35:17
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483302
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

notice the + sign with wind in brackets

20km per hour + (wind)

depends on the wind behind it

Fires make their own wind and nothing can predict it.

True

so fires move betwwen 20 up to 40km ?

As I said, they can outrun a car doing 100kmph. Remember, you are trying to drive through bush and fast dspeeds require roads.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:35:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483303
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Hold your gas flame on a hydraulic hose? See how long.

hydraulic hoses can be covered

With aluminium shields?

no Titanium

It has a melting temp of 1941 K ​(1668 °C, ​3034 °F)

maybe some other metal alloys could be even higher

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:37:11
From: party_pants
ID: 1483305
Subject: re: Fighting fires

I think the idea of putting the fire out directly is the problem here. The main difference bwteen Tau’s idea and what everyone else is thinking is that big fires don’t get put out, we accept that there is a fire and let it burn, we try to protect lives and property, we try to contain it and stop it spreading, we let it burn itself out and then mop up later.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:38:08
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483307
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

hydraulic hoses can be covered

With aluminium shields?

no Titanium

It has a melting temp of 1941 K ​(1668 °C, ​3034 °F)

maybe some other metal alloys could be even higher

Anyway, you aren’t going to achieve anything in attempting to put the fire out the way you suggest. Your proposal would strip NASA of their funds before they achieved it. Ploughing the land behind a fire will bury all the seeds that may be able to regenerate the forest.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:38:30
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483309
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Fires make their own wind and nothing can predict it.

True

so fires move betwwen 20 up to 40km ?

As I said, they can outrun a car doing 100kmph. Remember, you are trying to drive through bush and fast dspeeds require roads.

Im not seeing any figures like that in my searches

Im not saying your wrong

any internet references ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:38:34
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483310
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


I think the idea of putting the fire out directly is the problem here. The main difference bwteen Tau’s idea and what everyone else is thinking is that big fires don’t get put out, we accept that there is a fire and let it burn, we try to protect lives and property, we try to contain it and stop it spreading, we let it burn itself out and then mop up later.

Even God is stumped here.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:39:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483311
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

True

so fires move betwwen 20 up to 40km ?

As I said, they can outrun a car doing 100kmph. Remember, you are trying to drive through bush and fast dspeeds require roads.

Im not seeing any figures like that in my searches

Im not saying your wrong

any internet references ?

Black Saturday.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:39:51
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483312
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Im not here to be attacked

titanium can withstand temps up to 1000 c

there’s your machine.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:47:52
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483315
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:48:00
From: Tamb
ID: 1483316
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

True

so fires move betwwen 20 up to 40km ?

As I said, they can outrun a car doing 100kmph. Remember, you are trying to drive through bush and fast dspeeds require roads.

Im not seeing any figures like that in my searches

Im not saying your wrong

any internet references ?


In my experience I have never seen fire move that fast.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:49:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483317
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Im not here to be attacked

titanium can withstand temps up to 1000 c

there’s your machine.

You are still wasting time by not listening.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:50:24
From: Cymek
ID: 1483318
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:50:33
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483319
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

As I said, they can outrun a car doing 100kmph. Remember, you are trying to drive through bush and fast dspeeds require roads.

Im not seeing any figures like that in my searches

Im not saying your wrong

any internet references ?


In my experience I have never seen fire move that fast.

Fires don’t follow roads but roads do cross back in front of fires.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:52:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483321
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so

Helicopter cannot fly in and put out fires that fierce. Cannnot lay down retardant in front of a fire fast enough.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:52:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483322
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so

>>How much water would be requires to put out the fires though,

That is a good physics question too

Fires involve physics

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:52:37
From: Tamb
ID: 1483323
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so


You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:53:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483325
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so

Helicopter cannot fly in and put out fires that fierce. Cannnot lay down retardant in front of a fire fast enough.

what about dumping water in front of the fire

not on it ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:53:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483326
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so


You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

That’s all it can do and we needed fleets of them.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:54:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483327
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Cymek said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so

>>How much water would be requires to put out the fires though,

That is a good physics question too

Fires involve physics

An important aspect is oxygen. Don’t feed the troll fire and it will expire.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:54:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483328
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so

Helicopter cannot fly in and put out fires that fierce. Cannnot lay down retardant in front of a fire fast enough.

what about dumping water in front of the fire

not on it ?


Do catch up.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:56:52
From: Tamb
ID: 1483330
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tamb said:

Cymek said:

How much water would be requires to put out the fires though, millions of litres I imagine and is their even enough helicopters on the planet to do so


You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

That’s all it can do and we needed fleets of them.


We certainly do.They are the big ticket items only governments can fund.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:58:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 1483332
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

That’s all it can do and we needed fleets of them.


We certainly do.They are the big ticket items only governments can fund.

Clive Palmer could have spent his election money on at least one.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 14:59:31
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483333
Subject: re: Fighting fires

How does air pressure effect fires?

What would be the different say between a very low pressure day and a high pressure day

If big fires create their own weather how does pressure change with that ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:00:01
From: furious
ID: 1483334
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Rather than bombing, have they ever tried misting/spraying? It would act to cool the area, perhaps slowing the fire front down…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:01:38
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483335
Subject: re: Fighting fires

roughbarked said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Helicopter cannot fly in and put out fires that fierce. Cannnot lay down retardant in front of a fire fast enough.

what about dumping water in front of the fire

not on it ?


Do catch up.

Dumping water in front of the Canberra fire may have saved the suburb at the bottom of the mountain

In that situation,

If enough water had been dumped which wasn’t, because no helicopters were there at all.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:02:59
From: Tamb
ID: 1483336
Subject: re: Fighting fires

furious said:

  • You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

Rather than bombing, have they ever tried misting/spraying? It would act to cool the area, perhaps slowing the fire front down…


I’ve seen misdirected water bombing released over a fire. It seems to vapourise before it reaches the fire & doesn’t seem to have any marked effect.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:03:46
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483338
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Helicopters carry buckets.

Do they carry one bucket or two.

Because if they carried two, the second bucket could be filled while the helicopter is using the other one.

Maybe they already do that ?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:04:06
From: buffy
ID: 1483339
Subject: re: Fighting fires

furious said:

  • You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

Rather than bombing, have they ever tried misting/spraying? It would act to cool the area, perhaps slowing the fire front down…

I think that is the thinking behind roof sprinklers. Ours do big droplets, which I’m told is the way to go. They have never so far had to act in earnest, although they have been put on a couple of times in anticipation.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:04:59
From: furious
ID: 1483341
Subject: re: Fighting fires

I don’t mean over the fire, but in front of it…

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:05:02
From: Cymek
ID: 1483342
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

what about dumping water in front of the fire

not on it ?


Do catch up.

Dumping water in front of the Canberra fire may have saved the suburb at the bottom of the mountain

In that situation,

If enough water had been dumped which wasn’t, because no helicopters were there at all.

It seems to put them out or even drastically reduce them in size you’d needed to throw the resources you’d commit to a reasonable sized war, hundreds of helicopters and tens of thousands of personal and equipment with the supplies included as well

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:07:00
From: party_pants
ID: 1483345
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

Whilst it sounds impressive, that i not what you get. The bambi-bucket for the Mi-26 is about 17 tonnes. Big and impressive, but not anywhere near 50 tonnes.

Also, the Mi-26 is very big and needs a specialised crew of 5 to operate it. You might be better off usingmore medium sized helicopters rather than one big one.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:07:13
From: Tamb
ID: 1483346
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Helicopters carry buckets.

Do they carry one bucket or two.

Because if they carried two, the second bucket could be filled while the helicopter is using the other one.

Maybe they already do that ?


One bucket. It fills quite quickly.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:08:53
From: Tamb
ID: 1483347
Subject: re: Fighting fires

buffy said:


furious said:
  • You normally don’t try to put the fire out. What the water bomber does is soak the fuel in front of the advancing fire thus preventing it from burning.

Rather than bombing, have they ever tried misting/spraying? It would act to cool the area, perhaps slowing the fire front down…

I think that is the thinking behind roof sprinklers. Ours do big droplets, which I’m told is the way to go. They have never so far had to act in earnest, although they have been put on a couple of times in anticipation.


Roof sprinklers are good for ember attack, not so good for fire front attack.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:09:30
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483348
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Cymek said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Do catch up.

Dumping water in front of the Canberra fire may have saved the suburb at the bottom of the mountain

In that situation,

If enough water had been dumped which wasn’t, because no helicopters were there at all.

It seems to put them out or even drastically reduce them in size you’d needed to throw the resources you’d commit to a reasonable sized war, hundreds of helicopters and tens of thousands of personal and equipment with the supplies included as well

Id like to see figures done.

The CSIRO might have good figures on it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:09:34
From: Tamb
ID: 1483349
Subject: re: Fighting fires

furious said:

  • I’ve seen misdirected water bombing released over a fire. It seems to vapourise before it reaches the fire & doesn’t seem to have any marked effect.

I don’t mean over the fire, but in front of it…


Yes, That’s what they do.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:09:48
From: party_pants
ID: 1483350
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Helicopters carry buckets.

Do they carry one bucket or two.

Because if they carried two, the second bucket could be filled while the helicopter is using the other one.

Maybe they already do that ?

One bucket, they hover over a pond or lake and drop the bucket in to refill it, then dash back to the fire. Quicker than changing buckets.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:10:58
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483351
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Elvis helicopter can lift 10 tons of water 9,500 litres

The Russian Mil Mi-26 can lift 50 tons.

Whilst it sounds impressive, that i not what you get. The bambi-bucket for the Mi-26 is about 17 tonnes. Big and impressive, but not anywhere near 50 tonnes.

Also, the Mi-26 is very big and needs a specialised crew of 5 to operate it. You might be better off usingmore medium sized helicopters rather than one big one.

ok,

I wish we were developing helicopters

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:12:00
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483352
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Helicopters carry buckets.

Do they carry one bucket or two.

Because if they carried two, the second bucket could be filled while the helicopter is using the other one.

Maybe they already do that ?

One bucket, they hover over a pond or lake and drop the bucket in to refill it, then dash back to the fire. Quicker than changing buckets.


ok I see that now.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:13:16
From: furious
ID: 1483353
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


furious said:
  • I’ve seen misdirected water bombing released over a fire. It seems to vapourise before it reaches the fire & doesn’t seem to have any marked effect.

I don’t mean over the fire, but in front of it…


Yes, That’s what they do.

Yes, I know. Dump a whole heap in one spot, then go get some more. Laying down spray lines in front of, or around, the fire would use the same amount of water over a greater range. Cooling down the air and any that gets on the ground will take energy out of the fire when it gets there. It won’t put it out but slow it down. I’m not saying it will work. My question was, have they ever tried it?

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:32:21
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483360
Subject: re: Fighting fires

furious said:


Tamb said:

furious said:
  • I’ve seen misdirected water bombing released over a fire. It seems to vapourise before it reaches the fire & doesn’t seem to have any marked effect.

I don’t mean over the fire, but in front of it…


Yes, That’s what they do.

Yes, I know. Dump a whole heap in one spot, then go get some more. Laying down spray lines in front of, or around, the fire would use the same amount of water over a greater range. Cooling down the air and any that gets on the ground will take energy out of the fire when it gets there. It won’t put it out but slow it down. I’m not saying it will work. My question was, have they ever tried it?

I was wondering that as well as a lot of fires are different

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

Interior fires

https://www.firehouse.com/home/article/10465153/determining-how-much-water-is-needed-for-effective-fire-control

https://brucehensler.typepad.com/the-practical-fireman/2008/07/how-much-water-do-you-need-to-extinguish-a-fire.html

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:35:05
From: Tamb
ID: 1483362
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


furious said:

Tamb said:

Yes, That’s what they do.

Yes, I know. Dump a whole heap in one spot, then go get some more. Laying down spray lines in front of, or around, the fire would use the same amount of water over a greater range. Cooling down the air and any that gets on the ground will take energy out of the fire when it gets there. It won’t put it out but slow it down. I’m not saying it will work. My question was, have they ever tried it?

I was wondering that as well as a lot of fires are different

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

Interior fires

https://www.firehouse.com/home/article/10465153/determining-how-much-water-is-needed-for-effective-fire-control

https://brucehensler.typepad.com/the-practical-fireman/2008/07/how-much-water-do-you-need-to-extinguish-a-fire.html


These are structural fires With totally different criteria.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:40:55
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483364
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

furious said:

Yes, I know. Dump a whole heap in one spot, then go get some more. Laying down spray lines in front of, or around, the fire would use the same amount of water over a greater range. Cooling down the air and any that gets on the ground will take energy out of the fire when it gets there. It won’t put it out but slow it down. I’m not saying it will work. My question was, have they ever tried it?

I was wondering that as well as a lot of fires are different

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

Interior fires

https://www.firehouse.com/home/article/10465153/determining-how-much-water-is-needed-for-effective-fire-control

https://brucehensler.typepad.com/the-practical-fireman/2008/07/how-much-water-do-you-need-to-extinguish-a-fire.html


These are structural fires With totally different criteria.

you missed this bit

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:43:13
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483366
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I was wondering that as well as a lot of fires are different

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

Interior fires

https://www.firehouse.com/home/article/10465153/determining-how-much-water-is-needed-for-effective-fire-control

https://brucehensler.typepad.com/the-practical-fireman/2008/07/how-much-water-do-you-need-to-extinguish-a-fire.html


These are structural fires With totally different criteria.

you missed this bit

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

There must be calculations for outside fires somewhere

Mollwollfumble might know.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:48:43
From: Tamb
ID: 1483369
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

I was wondering that as well as a lot of fires are different

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.

Interior fires

https://www.firehouse.com/home/article/10465153/determining-how-much-water-is-needed-for-effective-fire-control

https://brucehensler.typepad.com/the-practical-fireman/2008/07/how-much-water-do-you-need-to-extinguish-a-fire.html


These are structural fires With totally different criteria.

you missed this bit

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.


One error How do firefighters use the water on their trucks?
All the water that firefighters carry is all about cooling the fire.

Not so it’s more about slowing or stopping the fire’s advance by wetting the ground and vegetation ahead of the fire.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:55:01
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483371
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tamb said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tamb said:

These are structural fires With totally different criteria.

you missed this bit

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.


One error How do firefighters use the water on their trucks?
All the water that firefighters carry is all about cooling the fire.

Not so it’s more about slowing or stopping the fire’s advance by wetting the ground and vegetation ahead of the fire.

yes Id like to see some experiments done

imagine a mountain, at the base of the mountain, a suburb

would twenty meters or 50 meter line of water dumping slow down the fire or reduce the 1100 degree gumtree temp down enough ?

something like for a Kilometre

Reply Quote

Date: 8/01/2020 15:57:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1483372
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

you missed this bit

How much rain is needed to extinguish a massive bushfire?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/bushfire-q-and-a-how-firefighters-contain-bushfires/5042836

You would want more than 15 to 20mm at once to actually halt a fire like they’ve got in the Blue Mountains.

If that 20mm came over a few hours then that rain would help, and if you had a smaller amount but it rained and rained and rained for a couple of days then obviously that would have a cooling effect and that slows the fire and also wets the fuel ahead of the fire.


One error How do firefighters use the water on their trucks?
All the water that firefighters carry is all about cooling the fire.

Not so it’s more about slowing or stopping the fire’s advance by wetting the ground and vegetation ahead of the fire.

yes Id like to see some experiments done

imagine a mountain, at the base of the mountain, a suburb

would twenty meters or 50 meter line of water dumping slow down the fire or reduce the 1100 degree gumtree temp down enough ?

something like for a Kilometre

In addition to land clearing or turning the soil over along the suburb front.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:30:58
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1484616
Subject: re: Fighting fires

This is how most bushfires in Australia start, and how we know

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:36:02
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1484620
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:40:16
From: party_pants
ID: 1484625
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

Surely that’s been the case for decades. I remember roadside signs reminding people not to toss ciggie butts out of the car back when I was a kid. There was one along the lines of “one match can make a thousand matches, one match can destroy a thousand trees”, which I thought was very profound.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:45:07
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1484630
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

Surely that’s been the case for decades. I remember roadside signs reminding people not to toss ciggie butts out of the car back when I was a kid. There was one along the lines of “one match can make a thousand matches, one match can destroy a thousand trees”, which I thought was very profound.

Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze-“On January 15 alone over 2,000 lightning strikes sparked more than 60 bushfires”

Totally unprecedented. Google earth shows how extensive that fire/s was.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:46:04
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1484631
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

When I worked in the refinery we had Fire Fighting training once a month, we did all sorts of Rambo stuff.
But sometimes the refinery manager would bring his box of tricks and do experiments, he had a whole lot of letters after his name and he was adamant that you couldn’t start a bush fire with a cigarette butt. He was a very authoritarian figure and nobody dared argue with him.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:51:32
From: party_pants
ID: 1484637
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Peak Warming Man said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

When I worked in the refinery we had Fire Fighting training once a month, we did all sorts of Rambo stuff.
But sometimes the refinery manager would bring his box of tricks and do experiments, he had a whole lot of letters after his name and he was adamant that you couldn’t start a bush fire with a cigarette butt. He was a very authoritarian figure and nobody dared argue with him.

I’m here to tell you differently.

I was one of three blokes sitting on a front veranda drinking beer. One of the other blokes finished his ciggie and tossed the but into the garden bed. Garden bed was covered in mulch. A miniute or two later we suddenly noticed smoke coming from an expanding blackened circular patch of mulch, centered on right were the butt had landed. We got the hose and drenched it. But it left a black patch about 1m in diameter.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:53:26
From: sibeen
ID: 1484639
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Just got told that Genoa, just up the road from Mallacoota had 58 houses burnt out. The place has a population of about 300.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:54:36
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 1484640
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

When I worked in the refinery we had Fire Fighting training once a month, we did all sorts of Rambo stuff.
But sometimes the refinery manager would bring his box of tricks and do experiments, he had a whole lot of letters after his name and he was adamant that you couldn’t start a bush fire with a cigarette butt. He was a very authoritarian figure and nobody dared argue with him.

I’m here to tell you differently.

I was one of three blokes sitting on a front veranda drinking beer. One of the other blokes finished his ciggie and tossed the but into the garden bed. Garden bed was covered in mulch. A miniute or two later we suddenly noticed smoke coming from an expanding blackened circular patch of mulch, centered on right were the butt had landed. We got the hose and drenched it. But it left a black patch about 1m in diameter.

Yes I’m sure you can.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:56:03
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1484642
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sibeen said:


Just got told that Genoa, just up the road from Mallacoota had 58 houses burnt out. The place has a population of about 300.

:(

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:57:43
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1484646
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Lucy Palmer just posted this brilliant postcard from Mallacoota written by her friend Cate Tregellas. Suddenly I realised this is the perspective I’ve been missing, and a reminder of the many tens if not hundreds of thousands of people affected by these fires. Read it, you’ll be glad you did.

13 THINGS NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT BUSHFIRES

1. Black Snot
Every night for the past week, my last task before I blow out the candle and hit the pillow, is to remove hard dry particles of the blackest of black snot from my nose so I can breathe freely overnight. Despite wearing the latest Mallacootian fashion accessory of a face mask all day, the stealthy little bastards of ash and dirt manage to inveigle their way past all barriers to lodge uninvited and unwanted in my nasal cavities. I never dreamt that in my fifth decade that I would (willingly) be picking my nose. Just don’t tell my Mum.

2. Black IS the New Black
The choice of anyone who has to tackle the dispiriting, back breaking task of cleaning up what is left of their home/shed/business/vehicle/paddock. There is no point wearing anything else, as it will be thoroughly black within few minutes anyway. The antidote to this (for me anyway) is once I have had enough of sifting through superfine debris for the day, is to change into the brightest, lightest coloured clothing, drag a brush through my stiff, ash encrusted hair, slap on some lippy and go into town to deliver more donated goods to the Community Refuge & Evacuation Centre. I feel better, if even for a short while.

3. RSA or Rapid Skill Acquisition : I have developed new skills that I never, ever thought I would have…such as breaking into houses. Despite having the absent owners’ permission to raid their pantries, closets, cupboards for anything they want to donate for the comfort of others they have never met, I feel that I will be sprung at any moment. I can see the headlines now “School Council President and Copper’s Wife Arrested for Looting Fire Ravaged Hames” In my defence, I have been emptying out the putrefying remains of each fridge and freezer as I go.

4. There Are No Alone Moments.
I can’t even go to the toilet alone – two of our dogs follow my every move from the moment I wake to the moment they can flop exhausted into our bed at night. We normally don’t allow any creatures (apart from our children) in the bed with us, but if it means they and we get some sleep, why not?

5. Don’t Take Goldfish on an Overnight Evacuation
When you pack four kids, three dogs, two cats, five guinea pigs, one rabbit and four goldfish into a car at a moment’s notice and high tail it down to the Main Wharf to spend the night with 4000 of your new best friends, don’t be surprised when everyone doesn’t survive. Scooping up our goldfish at the last minute (despite protestations that they would be more comfortable at home in their big cool spacious tank), early next morning they were all floaters. Whether it was the ash that mysteriously found its way into their container through closed car windows or the fact that their water was suspiciously warmer than when we left home, they were gone. Yeah, you say, they were only fish but we had one each and they all had names and we loved them.
Lesson learnt.

6. I Long for Blue
In the past seven days, the sky has been every other colour, every conceivable shade but blue. Even yesterday, when the smoke cleared a little and there was some soft gentle rain, there was no blue. We haven’t seen the sun since it all began and I wonder how all the plants, the bush are coping without sunlight. The vegie garden that I was feeding my family from is toast, my orchard is gone.

7. Fine Smoked Cuisine
We have learnt to enjoy the taste of everything smoked. For instance, this morning, breakfast was Smoked Water, followed by a bowl of Smoked Porridge made with Powdered du Lait, washed down with a fine brewed Smoked Coffee. For dessert tonight, we are contemplating Roast Peaches with Cream of Ash or perhaps Char Grilled Pears with a drizzle of Ant Encrusted Honey.

8. Constant Unconscious Worry
Then you realise that it’s been a week and despite messages to them, you haven’t heard from your friend in the little settlement off the highway and you know that their general store has burnt down and then someone tells you the general store is still standing but it is your friend’s 100 year old home that is now a pile of ash and the panic, the dread, the fear for them starts all over again.

9. Fear…Not
Even during the worst of it, when the fiery apocalypse was raining down on us, our homes, all the familiar places we know and love and spend most of our summer at, I was not scared. NOT ONE BIT. I am still vaguely curious as to why I but the main emotion was impatience. I was bored of waiting for the inevitable and just wanted it all to be over. I can no longer answer well meaning messages that tell me that I must be relieved that the worst of it is over. No way, sunshine, the worst for this community, for the whole of the blackened eastern seaboard, for the psyche of our fair country, like some charred parasitic monster is unfurling itself now, spreading its evil tendrils into the hearts of people who think it is okay to rummage through the smoky detritus of a friend’s home to take whatever might be worth flogging. Whatever it was worth to you, I want to tell them, you have just stolen the their childhood memories, their last vestige of hope that they may rebuild, or, worst of all, the only way they can possibly make a living in the grim months ahead.

10. The Supreme Importance of The Seven Ps
Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance (and Panic).
One of the upsides of being married to a retired policeman (who still carries bullet fragments in his head) is that he is the epitome of calm no matter what is happening. Like a centrifugal force, he draws us in for hugs, jokes, tender moments as we swirl around him, getting instructions, tasks, reassurance. With three children aged 16, 15 & 12, we had made the decision a long time ago that our long, linear, north facing house was not to be defended, being right on the edge of town next to the squillions of drought affected bush that is Croajingalong National Park. So when the call came to evacuate internally (trust me, it’s not what you think!…but it’s just as unpleasant), the camper trailer was already restocked and hitched up to my car, the tandem trailer with precious photos, paperwork and supplies to his. I felt no emotion as we left, instead a flood of hot, burning impatience that it would hurry up and happen so we could start dealing with the inevitable.

11. Reverse Panic Attack
Three days after we evacuated and we were home again, sleeping in our beds and back in the routine of feeding animals and trying to have as normal a life apres-flames, I found out the true story of why our singed house didn’t keep burning. I was standing in the main street talking to one of youngest daughter’s friends who has lost everything when her house went up(down?) in less than 20 minutes. I was lamenting the fact that it wasn’t quite the summer holidays that we all expected when she said “At least I get out of cleaning up my room!” We stared at each other in shock, in delight, in the sheer wickedness of voicing something we truly felt, then doubled over in helpless hysterical laughter. Wiping our eyes, I feel an arm slung around my shoulders by the tiny, wiry seventy old woman who used to be the town’s post mistress. She tells me how a neighbour patrolling the next street saw smoke billowing from our back veranda and yelled at her to get over there. She and the former occupant of our house doused two fires that had taken hold either side of our back door and were up in the roof. I go from laughing to gasping for air in an instant. My heart feels like it is going to explode, I can’t breath, I can’t stand, my mind is a black hole and yet I am reaching my hand out to the young girl, our eyes still locked, and telling her I’m okay, she will be okay but we all know that is a lie.

12. I used to love telling people that I lived in a World Biosphere Reserve. The town’s slogan was ‘Victoria’s Best Kept Secret’ Ha-bloody ha.

13. Life Does Go On.
Our chooks keep laying, we wake once more to birdsong, there are even small joys when a blackened rosebush thrusts a bloom of the purest soft pink skyward. Getting out of bed each morning to face the million and one jobs/messages/calls for help is getting harder but I know that I can’t, won’t lie there and let it beat me. So I push my sore, tired aching body upright, drag on the not-as-dirty clothes and find my husband, already up and outside, silently embrace each other and go on with our day.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 21:58:52
From: party_pants
ID: 1484649
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sibeen said:


Just got told that Genoa, just up the road from Mallacoota had 58 houses burnt out. The place has a population of about 300.

Well that’s a bit fucked :(

I gather that is pretty much all the houses in a town that size?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:08:15
From: sibeen
ID: 1484657
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sarahs mum said:


Lucy Palmer just posted this brilliant postcard from Mallacoota written by her friend Cate Tregellas. Suddenly I realised this is the perspective I’ve been missing, and a reminder of the many tens if not hundreds of thousands of people affected by these fires. Read it, you’ll be glad you did.

13 THINGS NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT BUSHFIRES

1. Black Snot
Every night for the past week, my last task before I blow out the candle and hit the pillow, is to remove hard dry particles of the blackest of black snot from my nose so I can breathe freely overnight. Despite wearing the latest Mallacootian fashion accessory of a face mask all day, the stealthy little bastards of ash and dirt manage to inveigle their way past all barriers to lodge uninvited and unwanted in my nasal cavities. I never dreamt that in my fifth decade that I would (willingly) be picking my nose. Just don’t tell my Mum.

2. Black IS the New Black
The choice of anyone who has to tackle the dispiriting, back breaking task of cleaning up what is left of their home/shed/business/vehicle/paddock. There is no point wearing anything else, as it will be thoroughly black within few minutes anyway. The antidote to this (for me anyway) is once I have had enough of sifting through superfine debris for the day, is to change into the brightest, lightest coloured clothing, drag a brush through my stiff, ash encrusted hair, slap on some lippy and go into town to deliver more donated goods to the Community Refuge & Evacuation Centre. I feel better, if even for a short while.

3. RSA or Rapid Skill Acquisition : I have developed new skills that I never, ever thought I would have…such as breaking into houses. Despite having the absent owners’ permission to raid their pantries, closets, cupboards for anything they want to donate for the comfort of others they have never met, I feel that I will be sprung at any moment. I can see the headlines now “School Council President and Copper’s Wife Arrested for Looting Fire Ravaged Hames” In my defence, I have been emptying out the putrefying remains of each fridge and freezer as I go.

4. There Are No Alone Moments.
I can’t even go to the toilet alone – two of our dogs follow my every move from the moment I wake to the moment they can flop exhausted into our bed at night. We normally don’t allow any creatures (apart from our children) in the bed with us, but if it means they and we get some sleep, why not?

5. Don’t Take Goldfish on an Overnight Evacuation
When you pack four kids, three dogs, two cats, five guinea pigs, one rabbit and four goldfish into a car at a moment’s notice and high tail it down to the Main Wharf to spend the night with 4000 of your new best friends, don’t be surprised when everyone doesn’t survive. Scooping up our goldfish at the last minute (despite protestations that they would be more comfortable at home in their big cool spacious tank), early next morning they were all floaters. Whether it was the ash that mysteriously found its way into their container through closed car windows or the fact that their water was suspiciously warmer than when we left home, they were gone. Yeah, you say, they were only fish but we had one each and they all had names and we loved them.
Lesson learnt.

6. I Long for Blue
In the past seven days, the sky has been every other colour, every conceivable shade but blue. Even yesterday, when the smoke cleared a little and there was some soft gentle rain, there was no blue. We haven’t seen the sun since it all began and I wonder how all the plants, the bush are coping without sunlight. The vegie garden that I was feeding my family from is toast, my orchard is gone.

7. Fine Smoked Cuisine
We have learnt to enjoy the taste of everything smoked. For instance, this morning, breakfast was Smoked Water, followed by a bowl of Smoked Porridge made with Powdered du Lait, washed down with a fine brewed Smoked Coffee. For dessert tonight, we are contemplating Roast Peaches with Cream of Ash or perhaps Char Grilled Pears with a drizzle of Ant Encrusted Honey.

8. Constant Unconscious Worry
Then you realise that it’s been a week and despite messages to them, you haven’t heard from your friend in the little settlement off the highway and you know that their general store has burnt down and then someone tells you the general store is still standing but it is your friend’s 100 year old home that is now a pile of ash and the panic, the dread, the fear for them starts all over again.

9. Fear…Not
Even during the worst of it, when the fiery apocalypse was raining down on us, our homes, all the familiar places we know and love and spend most of our summer at, I was not scared. NOT ONE BIT. I am still vaguely curious as to why I but the main emotion was impatience. I was bored of waiting for the inevitable and just wanted it all to be over. I can no longer answer well meaning messages that tell me that I must be relieved that the worst of it is over. No way, sunshine, the worst for this community, for the whole of the blackened eastern seaboard, for the psyche of our fair country, like some charred parasitic monster is unfurling itself now, spreading its evil tendrils into the hearts of people who think it is okay to rummage through the smoky detritus of a friend’s home to take whatever might be worth flogging. Whatever it was worth to you, I want to tell them, you have just stolen the their childhood memories, their last vestige of hope that they may rebuild, or, worst of all, the only way they can possibly make a living in the grim months ahead.

10. The Supreme Importance of The Seven Ps
Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance (and Panic).
One of the upsides of being married to a retired policeman (who still carries bullet fragments in his head) is that he is the epitome of calm no matter what is happening. Like a centrifugal force, he draws us in for hugs, jokes, tender moments as we swirl around him, getting instructions, tasks, reassurance. With three children aged 16, 15 & 12, we had made the decision a long time ago that our long, linear, north facing house was not to be defended, being right on the edge of town next to the squillions of drought affected bush that is Croajingalong National Park. So when the call came to evacuate internally (trust me, it’s not what you think!…but it’s just as unpleasant), the camper trailer was already restocked and hitched up to my car, the tandem trailer with precious photos, paperwork and supplies to his. I felt no emotion as we left, instead a flood of hot, burning impatience that it would hurry up and happen so we could start dealing with the inevitable.

11. Reverse Panic Attack
Three days after we evacuated and we were home again, sleeping in our beds and back in the routine of feeding animals and trying to have as normal a life apres-flames, I found out the true story of why our singed house didn’t keep burning. I was standing in the main street talking to one of youngest daughter’s friends who has lost everything when her house went up(down?) in less than 20 minutes. I was lamenting the fact that it wasn’t quite the summer holidays that we all expected when she said “At least I get out of cleaning up my room!” We stared at each other in shock, in delight, in the sheer wickedness of voicing something we truly felt, then doubled over in helpless hysterical laughter. Wiping our eyes, I feel an arm slung around my shoulders by the tiny, wiry seventy old woman who used to be the town’s post mistress. She tells me how a neighbour patrolling the next street saw smoke billowing from our back veranda and yelled at her to get over there. She and the former occupant of our house doused two fires that had taken hold either side of our back door and were up in the roof. I go from laughing to gasping for air in an instant. My heart feels like it is going to explode, I can’t breath, I can’t stand, my mind is a black hole and yet I am reaching my hand out to the young girl, our eyes still locked, and telling her I’m okay, she will be okay but we all know that is a lie.

12. I used to love telling people that I lived in a World Biosphere Reserve. The town’s slogan was ‘Victoria’s Best Kept Secret’ Ha-bloody ha.

13. Life Does Go On.
Our chooks keep laying, we wake once more to birdsong, there are even small joys when a blackened rosebush thrusts a bloom of the purest soft pink skyward. Getting out of bed each morning to face the million and one jobs/messages/calls for help is getting harder but I know that I can’t, won’t lie there and let it beat me. So I push my sore, tired aching body upright, drag on the not-as-dirty clothes and find my husband, already up and outside, silently embrace each other and go on with our day.

Thanks for that, sm.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:08:48
From: Woodie
ID: 1484660
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sibeen said:


Just got told that Genoa, just up the road from Mallacoota had 58 houses burnt out. The place has a population of about 300.

😢

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:10:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1484663
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

These are ones that are caught though.

How many don’t get caught?

What if all cars had front and rear cameras ?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:10:48
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1484664
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sibeen said:


sarahs mum said:

Lucy Palmer just posted this brilliant postcard from Mallacoota written by her friend Cate Tregellas. Suddenly I realised this is the perspective I’ve been missing, and a reminder of the many tens if not hundreds of thousands of people affected by these fires. Read it, you’ll be glad you did.

13 THINGS NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT BUSHFIRES

1. Black Snot
Every night for the past week, my last task before I blow out the candle and hit the pillow, is to remove hard dry particles of the blackest of black snot from my nose so I can breathe freely overnight. Despite wearing the latest Mallacootian fashion accessory of a face mask all day, the stealthy little bastards of ash and dirt manage to inveigle their way past all barriers to lodge uninvited and unwanted in my nasal cavities. I never dreamt that in my fifth decade that I would (willingly) be picking my nose. Just don’t tell my Mum.

2. Black IS the New Black
The choice of anyone who has to tackle the dispiriting, back breaking task of cleaning up what is left of their home/shed/business/vehicle/paddock. There is no point wearing anything else, as it will be thoroughly black within few minutes anyway. The antidote to this (for me anyway) is once I have had enough of sifting through superfine debris for the day, is to change into the brightest, lightest coloured clothing, drag a brush through my stiff, ash encrusted hair, slap on some lippy and go into town to deliver more donated goods to the Community Refuge & Evacuation Centre. I feel better, if even for a short while.

3. RSA or Rapid Skill Acquisition : I have developed new skills that I never, ever thought I would have…such as breaking into houses. Despite having the absent owners’ permission to raid their pantries, closets, cupboards for anything they want to donate for the comfort of others they have never met, I feel that I will be sprung at any moment. I can see the headlines now “School Council President and Copper’s Wife Arrested for Looting Fire Ravaged Hames” In my defence, I have been emptying out the putrefying remains of each fridge and freezer as I go.

4. There Are No Alone Moments.
I can’t even go to the toilet alone – two of our dogs follow my every move from the moment I wake to the moment they can flop exhausted into our bed at night. We normally don’t allow any creatures (apart from our children) in the bed with us, but if it means they and we get some sleep, why not?

5. Don’t Take Goldfish on an Overnight Evacuation
When you pack four kids, three dogs, two cats, five guinea pigs, one rabbit and four goldfish into a car at a moment’s notice and high tail it down to the Main Wharf to spend the night with 4000 of your new best friends, don’t be surprised when everyone doesn’t survive. Scooping up our goldfish at the last minute (despite protestations that they would be more comfortable at home in their big cool spacious tank), early next morning they were all floaters. Whether it was the ash that mysteriously found its way into their container through closed car windows or the fact that their water was suspiciously warmer than when we left home, they were gone. Yeah, you say, they were only fish but we had one each and they all had names and we loved them.
Lesson learnt.

6. I Long for Blue
In the past seven days, the sky has been every other colour, every conceivable shade but blue. Even yesterday, when the smoke cleared a little and there was some soft gentle rain, there was no blue. We haven’t seen the sun since it all began and I wonder how all the plants, the bush are coping without sunlight. The vegie garden that I was feeding my family from is toast, my orchard is gone.

7. Fine Smoked Cuisine
We have learnt to enjoy the taste of everything smoked. For instance, this morning, breakfast was Smoked Water, followed by a bowl of Smoked Porridge made with Powdered du Lait, washed down with a fine brewed Smoked Coffee. For dessert tonight, we are contemplating Roast Peaches with Cream of Ash or perhaps Char Grilled Pears with a drizzle of Ant Encrusted Honey.

8. Constant Unconscious Worry
Then you realise that it’s been a week and despite messages to them, you haven’t heard from your friend in the little settlement off the highway and you know that their general store has burnt down and then someone tells you the general store is still standing but it is your friend’s 100 year old home that is now a pile of ash and the panic, the dread, the fear for them starts all over again.

9. Fear…Not
Even during the worst of it, when the fiery apocalypse was raining down on us, our homes, all the familiar places we know and love and spend most of our summer at, I was not scared. NOT ONE BIT. I am still vaguely curious as to why I but the main emotion was impatience. I was bored of waiting for the inevitable and just wanted it all to be over. I can no longer answer well meaning messages that tell me that I must be relieved that the worst of it is over. No way, sunshine, the worst for this community, for the whole of the blackened eastern seaboard, for the psyche of our fair country, like some charred parasitic monster is unfurling itself now, spreading its evil tendrils into the hearts of people who think it is okay to rummage through the smoky detritus of a friend’s home to take whatever might be worth flogging. Whatever it was worth to you, I want to tell them, you have just stolen the their childhood memories, their last vestige of hope that they may rebuild, or, worst of all, the only way they can possibly make a living in the grim months ahead.

10. The Supreme Importance of The Seven Ps
Prior Preparation and Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance (and Panic).
One of the upsides of being married to a retired policeman (who still carries bullet fragments in his head) is that he is the epitome of calm no matter what is happening. Like a centrifugal force, he draws us in for hugs, jokes, tender moments as we swirl around him, getting instructions, tasks, reassurance. With three children aged 16, 15 & 12, we had made the decision a long time ago that our long, linear, north facing house was not to be defended, being right on the edge of town next to the squillions of drought affected bush that is Croajingalong National Park. So when the call came to evacuate internally (trust me, it’s not what you think!…but it’s just as unpleasant), the camper trailer was already restocked and hitched up to my car, the tandem trailer with precious photos, paperwork and supplies to his. I felt no emotion as we left, instead a flood of hot, burning impatience that it would hurry up and happen so we could start dealing with the inevitable.

11. Reverse Panic Attack
Three days after we evacuated and we were home again, sleeping in our beds and back in the routine of feeding animals and trying to have as normal a life apres-flames, I found out the true story of why our singed house didn’t keep burning. I was standing in the main street talking to one of youngest daughter’s friends who has lost everything when her house went up(down?) in less than 20 minutes. I was lamenting the fact that it wasn’t quite the summer holidays that we all expected when she said “At least I get out of cleaning up my room!” We stared at each other in shock, in delight, in the sheer wickedness of voicing something we truly felt, then doubled over in helpless hysterical laughter. Wiping our eyes, I feel an arm slung around my shoulders by the tiny, wiry seventy old woman who used to be the town’s post mistress. She tells me how a neighbour patrolling the next street saw smoke billowing from our back veranda and yelled at her to get over there. She and the former occupant of our house doused two fires that had taken hold either side of our back door and were up in the roof. I go from laughing to gasping for air in an instant. My heart feels like it is going to explode, I can’t breath, I can’t stand, my mind is a black hole and yet I am reaching my hand out to the young girl, our eyes still locked, and telling her I’m okay, she will be okay but we all know that is a lie.

12. I used to love telling people that I lived in a World Biosphere Reserve. The town’s slogan was ‘Victoria’s Best Kept Secret’ Ha-bloody ha.

13. Life Does Go On.
Our chooks keep laying, we wake once more to birdsong, there are even small joys when a blackened rosebush thrusts a bloom of the purest soft pink skyward. Getting out of bed each morning to face the million and one jobs/messages/calls for help is getting harder but I know that I can’t, won’t lie there and let it beat me. So I push my sore, tired aching body upright, drag on the not-as-dirty clothes and find my husband, already up and outside, silently embrace each other and go on with our day.

Thanks for that, sm.

:)

I have a bunch of friends in the ‘not quite affected’ group.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:11:12
From: sibeen
ID: 1484665
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


sibeen said:

Just got told that Genoa, just up the road from Mallacoota had 58 houses burnt out. The place has a population of about 300.

Well that’s a bit fucked :(

I gather that is pretty much all the houses in a town that size?

Yep :(

Just down the road is Gypsy Point, 20 houses lost there and I would bit surprised if there was 30 houses in the town. Mallacootas has lost 35.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:13:34
From: Woodie
ID: 1484668
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Dry lightning has set Tasmania ablaze, and climate change makes it more likely to happen again

Dry lightning does cause a lot of problems, but looks like people cause more problems.

Bushfires: Nature is no match for man

Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

more ads for butts thrown out windows?

more driver education

These are ones that are caught though.

How many don’t get caught?

What if all cars had front and rear cameras ?

….. or put ashtrays back in cars.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:14:28
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1484669
Subject: re: Fighting fires

>>>Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

What about taking their licence away for a period?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:16:33
From: party_pants
ID: 1484673
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


>>>Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

What about taking their licence away for a period?

Driving is not the problem. They need to be banned from smoking.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:17:20
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1484675
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


>>>Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

What about taking their licence away for a period?

Even banning smoking in cars.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:18:15
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1484678
Subject: re: Fighting fires

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

>>>Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

What about taking their licence away for a period?

Driving is not the problem. They need to be banned from smoking.

You beat me to it.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:20:49
From: party_pants
ID: 1484681
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Tau.Neutrino said:


party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

>>>Almost 150 fines and 2800 formal warning letters were sent to people who threw cigarette butts from cars in the final three months of last year, including while bushfires were raging in the Blue Mountains.

What about taking their licence away for a period?

Driving is not the problem. They need to be banned from smoking.

You beat me to it.

Make the sale of cigarettes prescription based. Known irresponsibles get their script cancelled.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:22:09
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1484685
Subject: re: Fighting fires

My friend in a campervan in Bright..says it is raining. And she’s happy now.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:22:56
From: Michael V
ID: 1484686
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sarahs mum said:


Lucy Palmer just posted this brilliant postcard from Mallacoota written by her friend Cate Tregellas. Suddenly I realised this is the perspective I’ve been missing, and a reminder of the many tens if not hundreds of thousands of people affected by these fires. Read it, you’ll be glad you did.

13 THINGS NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT BUSHFIRES

1. Black Snot

(etc.)

Good read, thanks.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:23:57
From: Rule 303
ID: 1484688
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sarahs mum said:


13 THINGS NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT BUSHFIRES

>snip<

There’s lots of things you don’t know about fires until you’ve survived a few. Things you don’t need to know, mostly, but this one’s worth mentioning: When experienced people say ‘LEAVE’, they really mean leave. Dump your shit and walk out. Run for it. Get down low and GTFO.

It’s bewildering and infuriating to them when we ignore them.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:25:42
From: sibeen
ID: 1484690
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sarahs mum said:


My friend in a campervan in Bright..says it is raining. And she’s happy now.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:33:29
From: Michael V
ID: 1484695
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Rule 303 said:


sarahs mum said:

13 THINGS NO ONE TELLS YOU ABOUT BUSHFIRES

>snip<

There’s lots of things you don’t know about fires until you’ve survived a few. Things you don’t need to know, mostly, but this one’s worth mentioning: When experienced people say ‘LEAVE’, they really mean leave. Dump your shit and walk out. Run for it. Get down low and GTFO.

It’s bewildering and infuriating to them when we ignore them.

I intend to leave. Probably before the Firies say leave. I’m not keen on big, tall fires especially when they are not in a proper stove. . The beach is my place of refuge.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:50:50
From: sibeen
ID: 1484705
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Looks like the rain is hitting the far east of the state :)

Reply Quote

Date: 10/01/2020 22:55:35
From: Rule 303
ID: 1484708
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sibeen said:


Looks like the rain is hitting the far east of the state :)

Yep. A nice slow-moving light band with lots cold air. Most of the Fireys will be tucked up in their tents, but the guys who are awake will be very pleased to see it.

:-)

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 17:50:45
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 1485011
Subject: re: Fighting fires

The truth about Australia’s fires — arsonists aren’t responsible for many this season

Only about 1 per cent of the land burnt in NSW this bushfire season can be officially attributed to arson, and it is even less in Victoria, the ABC can reveal.

NSW Rural Fire Service (RFS) Inspector Ben Shepherd said earlier this week lightning was predominantly responsible for the bushfire crisis.

more…

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 18:28:05
From: Rule 303
ID: 1485027
Subject: re: Fighting fires

The truth about the ADF involvement in the current fires

Next time somebody says “Why aren’t they bringing in the Army?”….

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 18:32:19
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1485028
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Rule 303 said:


The truth about the ADF involvement in the current fires

Next time somebody says “Why aren’t they bringing in the Army?”….

Major General Justin ‘Jake’ Ellwood

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 18:51:42
From: Michael V
ID: 1485032
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Very poor people raising funds to help bushfire victims. I’ve become all teary from the emotion of it all.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/papua-new-guinea-and-vanuatu-funds-for-australian-bushfires/11860388

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 19:08:36
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1485033
Subject: re: Fighting fires

Michael V said:


Very poor people raising funds to help bushfire victims. I’ve become all teary from the emotion of it all.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-11/papua-new-guinea-and-vanuatu-funds-for-australian-bushfires/11860388

You know I sort of felt that way when Sarah was little and there were awful fires aroud Lane Cove National Park and the locals here gave lots.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 19:10:20
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1485034
Subject: re: Fighting fires

The guide, aimed at police officers, government organisations and teachers who by law have to report concerns about radicalisation, was dated last November.

It says that issues to look out for include people who speak in “strong or emotive terms about environmental issues like climate change, ecology, species extinction, fracking, airport expansion or pollution”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/10/xr-extinction-rebellion-listed-extremist-ideology-police-prevent-scheme-guidance

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 19:15:22
From: sarahs mum
ID: 1485037
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sarahs mum said:


The guide, aimed at police officers, government organisations and teachers who by law have to report concerns about radicalisation, was dated last November.

It says that issues to look out for include people who speak in “strong or emotive terms about environmental issues like climate change, ecology, species extinction, fracking, airport expansion or pollution”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/10/xr-extinction-rebellion-listed-extremist-ideology-police-prevent-scheme-guidance

Retracted.
But watch out for environmental graffitiists.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/01/2020 19:19:15
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1485038
Subject: re: Fighting fires

sarahs mum said:


The guide, aimed at police officers, government organisations and teachers who by law have to report concerns about radicalisation, was dated last November.

It says that issues to look out for include people who speak in “strong or emotive terms about environmental issues like climate change, ecology, species extinction, fracking, airport expansion or pollution”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/10/xr-extinction-rebellion-listed-extremist-ideology-police-prevent-scheme-guidance

Same as terrorist movies when the villains are animal activists. Strange they consider people who care what happens to animals are the ones in the wrong. Just goes to show the cock-eyed world we live in.

Reply Quote