Can all lightning strikes be traced back if they cause a fire?

No.

Well, mostly no.
There’s a gadget in some light aircraft that’s called a Stormscope and it gives the pilot a rough idea of the direction and (very rough) distance. Maybe with some boffins working on a ground-based one, something more accurate could be built. Perhaps in conjunction with microphones in a grid, so as to more accurately get an estimate as to where the lightning strike was.

Stormscope

Spiny Norman said:

Well, mostly no.
There’s a gadget in some light aircraft that’s called a Stormscope and it gives the pilot a rough idea of the direction and (very rough) distance. Maybe with some boffins working on a ground-based one, something more accurate could be built. Perhaps in conjunction with microphones in a grid, so as to more accurately get an estimate as to where the lightning strike was.

Stormscope

Cause if lightning fires can be detected quickly and put out quickly that could be an incentive, that that such fires could attract more money if put out faster etc.

Cause if lightning fires can be detected quickly and put out quickly that could be an incentive, in that such fires could attract more money if put out faster etc.

Also it would be interesting to look at years of lightning strikes and look for regular hit sites.

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

These days people inform the fireys via twitter if they see a fire break out.

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

I think it’s rather ironic (funny?) that these days we have ‘fire chiefs’ calling for more funds for bigger water/retardant bombers, when in decades past it was people holding the same jobs who argued against aircraft, claiming that ‘they’re not suited to Australian conditions/fires’.

The real reason being that have ‘command’ of two or three aircraft wouldn’t have the same political clout within the organisation as having command of a larger contingent of brigades and their personnel.

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

These days people inform the fireys via twitter if they see a fire break out.

Automated fire towers can phone twitter too.

Tau.Neutrino said:

roughbarked said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

These days people inform the fireys via twitter if they see a fire break out.

Automated fire towers can phone twitter too.

That’s if they are needed.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

why not a radio? that way you don’t need a phone tower to connect to, which might be hard in some areas. Though I guess they already use radios judging by the people on this forum who listen to that channel.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

There’s a big future for infrared cameras in Aerosondes.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

why not a radio? that way you don’t need a phone tower to connect to, which might be hard in some areas. Though I guess they already use radios judging by the people on this forum who listen to that channel.

Why not satellite phones?

They always work.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

What about meteor-burst comms?

I love that method. It’s so Duck Dodgers.

captain_spalding said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

I think it’s rather ironic (funny?) that these days we have ‘fire chiefs’ calling for more funds for bigger water/retardant bombers, when in decades past it was people holding the same jobs who argued against aircraft, claiming that ‘they’re not suited to Australian conditions/fires’.

The real reason being that have ‘command’ of two or three aircraft wouldn’t have the same political clout within the organisation as having command of a larger contingent of brigades and their personnel.

If that was ever true, it’s not now.

ChrispenEvan said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

why not a radio? that way you don’t need a phone tower to connect to, which might be hard in some areas. Though I guess they already use radios judging by the people on this forum who listen to that channel.

Heh. As often as not, the fire towers are the phone and radio towers.

Rule 303 said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

I’m not knocking the working crews

What would be the differences between the Canberra 2003 fire and now?

Ive put out some fires myself

Not bush fires

One was an electrical fire an electrical power board went up

Guess where the fire extinguisher was? Never put an fire extinguisher right under an electrical power board, not good. No it wasn’t me.

The other was a barbecue gas fire, always check rubber hoses for cracks or splits, valve got turned off really quickly

Ive done some fire hazard reduction work.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

I’m not knocking the working crews

Have a gander at the Bushfire & Natural Hazards CRC Website if you’re interested in fire, it’s a pretty good starting point.

Rule 303 said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

I’m not knocking the working crews

Have a gander at the Bushfire & Natural Hazards CRC Website if you’re interested in fire, it’s a pretty good starting point.

Thanks I’ll bookmark that.

We have already had countless bushfire inquiries. What good will it do to have another?

from link

Previous reviews that went nowhere

Some of the recommendations of the Stretton Royal Commission following the Black Friday fires of 1939 have still not been fully implemented.

Many of the recommendations of the subsequent 56 inquiries have not been fully implemented either, so it raises serious questions about whether another royal commission will offer anything new or compelling.

Tau.Neutrino said:

We have already had countless bushfire inquiries. What good will it do to have another?

from link

Previous reviews that went nowhere

Some of the recommendations of the Stretton Royal Commission following the Black Friday fires of 1939 have still not been fully implemented.

Many of the recommendations of the subsequent 56 inquiries have not been fully implemented either, so it raises serious questions about whether another royal commission will offer anything new or compelling.

And, as i’ve said before, a Royal Commission would be more about not doing something than about doing something.

It would give the government something to point to, and allow them to say that ‘we’ll have to await the findings of the Commission’.

And it would give politicians the opportunity to dodge questions by saying something like ‘that’s for the Royal Commission to determine’, as if the matter was sub judice (which it wouldn’t be).

Tau.Neutrino said:

Cause if lightning fires can be detected quickly and put out quickly that could be an incentive, in that such fires could attract more money if put out faster etc.

They send up a smoke signal. My mother worked for the Shire of Ferntree Gully before she was married (1950s). They would stand outside the Shire offices and watch where the smoke came from and tell the CFA (or whatever they were called then) whose block/paddock etc it was in. The locals knew the country.

Mr buffy has sat in the ambulance at Hamilton Airport waiting for the air ambulance and watched lightning strikes across the Grampians, as the puffs of smoke started rising.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Also it would be interesting to look at years of lightning strikes and look for regular hit sites.

Apparently you look for places where there is iron underground. Like our block at Digby, so the Timbercorp people told us. After the fire.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Rule 303 said:

This is a large part of the reason some states have fire spotting towers, at elevated locations, with people in them 24/7 with binoculars.

But helicopters are gob-smackingly expensive, and they don’t put out fires. They can sometimes stop a fire running, or slow it down enough for ground crews to get on top of it, but just dropping a thousand litres of water on a fire, even a fairly small one, doesn’t put it out.

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Our fire tower here is on top of Mt Rouse. Right under the phone tower.

buffy said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Also it would be interesting to look at years of lightning strikes and look for regular hit sites.

Apparently you look for places where there is iron underground. Like our block at Digby, so the Timbercorp people told us. After the fire.

Oh, the iron of it.

Rule 303 said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ok

maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

This

buffy said:

Rule 303 said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Look at the fire data and put more where needed.

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

This

captain_spalding said:

It would give the government something to point to, and allow them to say that ‘we’ll have to await the findings of the Commission’.

…… and when might that be? After the next election of course.

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

Rule 303 said:

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

This

That piece of coal follows him.

It knows.

Woodie said:

captain_spalding said:

It would give the government something to point to, and allow them to say that ‘we’ll have to await the findings of the Commission’.

…… and when might that be? After the next election of course.

These things take time.

Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

This

That piece of coal follows him.

It knows.

It knows Matthew 6:24: ‘Ye cannot serve God and mammon’.

It knows which Sooty professes to serve, and which he actually does serve.

>maybe we need more fire spotting towers with infrared sensors and mobile phone connections

could make a really tall watchtower, preferential conductor protruding (lightning rod), plonk a battery or large goldcap capacitor in the line, suitable diode, some arrestors to clamp the voltage, you could power the mobile phones with a renewable power source

make the watchtower out of non-flammable materials of course

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

That piece of coal follows him.

It knows.

It knows Matthew 6:24: ‘Ye cannot serve God and mammon’.

It knows which Sooty professes to serve, and which he actually does serve.

You cannot serve that which does not exist.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

That piece of coal follows him.

It knows.

It knows Matthew 6:24: ‘Ye cannot serve God and mammon’.

It knows which Sooty professes to serve, and which he actually does serve.

You cannot serve that which does not exist.

Sooty had better hope ‘that which’ does not exist.

Or he’s gonna have some ‘splainin’ to do, Lucy.

There you go. Fire tower and phone towers. It’s not an unusual setup.

Rule 303 said:

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

ppppppft…… This bloke I met down the pub reckons he knows better than the lotta ‘em. And so did the bloke drinkin’ with him. And so did this woman at the supermarket checkout. She knows all about it. And some doofus that texted the ABC. And half me Facebook. They know it all, they reckon.

Woodie said:

Rule 303 said:

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

ppppppft…… This bloke I met down the pub reckons he knows better than the lotta ‘em. And so did the bloke drinkin’ with him. And so did this woman at the supermarket checkout. She knows all about it. And some doofus that texted the ABC. And half me Facebook. They know it all, they reckon.

Quiet Australians.

You can spot them by the streams of shite they spout all the time.

captain_spalding said:

Woodie said:

Rule 303 said:

I suspect most people don’t understand the incredible volume and complexity of the knowledge our fire researches have accumulated. We have world-leading scientists who have dedicated decades of their lives to this stuff, working tirelessly to save every blade of grass. And the work! We have expert firefighters who work until they drop every day for weeks. We have dozens of planes, and thousands of people, and highly competent emergency management mechanisms, all running at full capacity.

ppppppft…… This bloke I met down the pub reckons he knows better than the lotta ‘em. And so did the bloke drinkin’ with him. And so did this woman at the supermarket checkout. She knows all about it. And some doofus that texted the ABC. And half me Facebook. They know it all, they reckon.

Quiet Australians.

You can spot them by the streams of shite they spout all the time.

In Vic (and I expect this is probably true of other places where armchair warriors gather ‘round computers) we’ve been drowning in a river of bullshit over fires for months. Blaming everything but the real causes. It’s pretty difficult not to be dismissive.

Lightning activity these days is easily spotted by satellite. It’s better than our coverage of both rainfall and wind. And bushfires. The trouble is there are so many cases of lightning activity. So far as I know, there isn’t yet much distinction between cloud to cloud lightning (which is the most common) and cloud to ground lightning.

Lightning activity in Australia in the last 24 hours.

in S central Qld.

in more detail.

mollwollfumble said:

Lightning activity these days is easily spotted by satellite. It’s better than our coverage of both rainfall and wind. And bushfires. The trouble is there are so many cases of lightning activity. So far as I know, there isn’t yet much distinction between cloud to cloud lightning (which is the most common) and cloud to ground lightning.

Lightning activity in Australia in the last 24 hours.

in S central Qld.

in more detail.

That’s a lot of strikes.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-18/cultural-indigenous-burn-saves-home-in-bushfire-threat-area/11876972

Nearest bushfire to me is French Island, on tonight’s news. It’s so close I can get there on public transport.

Scrap that as a holiday destination – perhaps. What’s it’s geology?

mollwollfumble said:

Nearest bushfire to me is French Island, on tonight’s news. It’s so close I can get there on public transport.

Scrap that as a holiday destination – perhaps. What’s it’s geology?

As there are no foxes on the island they have Long-nosed Potoroos there, an animal the size of a smallish cat.

PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

Nearest bushfire to me is French Island, on tonight’s news. It’s so close I can get there on public transport.

Scrap that as a holiday destination – perhaps. What’s it’s geology?

As there are no foxes on the island they have Long-nosed Potoroos there, an animal the size of a smallish cat.

Thanks, had to look that up, it’s many decades since I’ve heard the word “potoroo”.

Appearance:

https://australianmuseum.net.au/learn/animals/mammals/long-nosed-potoroo/#gallery-thumbnail

“At first glance, the long-nosed potoroo with its pointed nose and grey-brown fur looks very much like a bandicoot — that is, until it hops away with its front feet tucked into its chest … body length between 34 and 38 cm … rarely seen in the wild, better indicators of its presence are the runways it makes through the undergrowth and diggings”.

> The species was first noted in 1790

Cripes, that’s early by Australian standards.

Distribution: