High-altitude drop system allows night aerial firefighting

As part of an effort to make firefighting safer and more effective, Israel-based international defense electronics company Elbit Systems has demonstrated a new high-altitude, high-precision aerial firefighting system that allows aircraft to drop fire suppressants from much higher altitudes. Called HyDrop, the system successfully dropped liquid pellets from two Air Tractor aircraft at altitudes of up to 500 ft (150 m) in a field exercise led by the Israel Fire and Rescue Authority.

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Tau.Neutrino said:

High-altitude drop system allows night aerial firefighting

As part of an effort to make firefighting safer and more effective, Israel-based international defense electronics company Elbit Systems has demonstrated a new high-altitude, high-precision aerial firefighting system that allows aircraft to drop fire suppressants from much higher altitudes. Called HyDrop, the system successfully dropped liquid pellets from two Air Tractor aircraft at altitudes of up to 500 ft (150 m) in a field exercise led by the Israel Fire and Rescue Authority.

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From the link

….100 and 120 ft (30 and 36 m). Such basement floor flying is extremely dangerous, but it’s necessary because if the liquid payload is dropped from a higher altitude, it will turn into an aerosol and float away ineffectively.

….each aircraft dropped 1.6 tons of biodegradable liquid pellets weighing 140 g each, which were placed on a precisely computed ballistic trajectory that saturated the ground at a rate of one to two liters per square meter.

HyDrop is designed to work with helicopters, fixed-wing, and heavy-lifter aircraft and is based on fighter aircraft avionics, including a ballistic computer; a command, and control (C2) system; and advanced display systems. This guides the aircraft to the target and compensates for aircraft velocity, altitude, GPS location, wind conditions, and the weight and shape of the liquid pellets to make a precise drop from the specially designed airborne dispenser.

Tau.Neutrino said:

High-altitude drop system allows night aerial firefighting

As part of an effort to make firefighting safer and more effective, Israel-based international defense electronics company Elbit Systems has demonstrated a new high-altitude, high-precision aerial firefighting system that allows aircraft to drop fire suppressants from much higher altitudes. Called HyDrop, the system successfully dropped liquid pellets from two Air Tractor aircraft at altitudes of up to 500 ft (150 m) in a field exercise led by the Israel Fire and Rescue Authority.

more…

> The company says that HyDrop comes with a static or mobile pellet-making machine that can fit in a standard 20-ft shipping container. This can produce 10 tons of pellets per hour, which can be filled with water or chemicals.

Um …

Uniform drop sizes certainly aid accuracy. Pellets can be made to give uniform drop sizes.

But how to you transport a container-sized pellet making machine to a distant lake? And how do you load them only quickly onto an aircraft when there’s no runway.

Perhaps better would be a special nozzle design that breaks the water from the water tank on an aircraft into near uniform drop sizes. A shower nozzle does this. So instead of pellets, have a giant shower nozzle say a metre in diameter or more. Then relegate to electronics to use for accurate wind speed measurement.

PS. I really hate to think what an Israeli defence contractor is doing dropping large pellets in a war situation. Slow release chemical and biological weapons would be my guess.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

High-altitude drop system allows night aerial firefighting

As part of an effort to make firefighting safer and more effective, Israel-based international defense electronics company Elbit Systems has demonstrated a new high-altitude, high-precision aerial firefighting system that allows aircraft to drop fire suppressants from much higher altitudes. Called HyDrop, the system successfully dropped liquid pellets from two Air Tractor aircraft at altitudes of up to 500 ft (150 m) in a field exercise led by the Israel Fire and Rescue Authority.

more…

> The company says that HyDrop comes with a static or mobile pellet-making machine that can fit in a standard 20-ft shipping container. This can produce 10 tons of pellets per hour, which can be filled with water or chemicals.

Um …

Uniform drop sizes certainly aid accuracy. Pellets can be made to give uniform drop sizes.

But how to you transport a container-sized pellet making machine to a distant lake? And how do you load them only quickly onto an aircraft when there’s no runway.

Perhaps better would be a special nozzle design that breaks the water from the water tank on an aircraft into near uniform drop sizes. A shower nozzle does this. So instead of pellets, have a giant shower nozzle say a metre in diameter or more. Then relegate to electronics to use for accurate wind speed measurement.

PS. I really hate to think what an Israeli defence contractor is doing dropping large pellets in a war situation. Slow release chemical and biological weapons would be my guess.

I’d like to see it trialed at a real bushfire.

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

High-altitude drop system allows night aerial firefighting

As part of an effort to make firefighting safer and more effective, Israel-based international defense electronics company Elbit Systems has demonstrated a new high-altitude, high-precision aerial firefighting system that allows aircraft to drop fire suppressants from much higher altitudes. Called HyDrop, the system successfully dropped liquid pellets from two Air Tractor aircraft at altitudes of up to 500 ft (150 m) in a field exercise led by the Israel Fire and Rescue Authority.

more…

> The company says that HyDrop comes with a static or mobile pellet-making machine that can fit in a standard 20-ft shipping container. This can produce 10 tons of pellets per hour, which can be filled with water or chemicals.

Um …

Uniform drop sizes certainly aid accuracy. Pellets can be made to give uniform drop sizes.

But how to you transport a container-sized pellet making machine to a distant lake? And how do you load them only quickly onto an aircraft when there’s no runway.

Perhaps better would be a special nozzle design that breaks the water from the water tank on an aircraft into near uniform drop sizes. A shower nozzle does this. So instead of pellets, have a giant shower nozzle say a metre in diameter or more. Then relegate to electronics to use for accurate wind speed measurement.

PS. I really hate to think what an Israeli defence contractor is doing dropping large pellets in a war situation. Slow release chemical and biological weapons would be my guess.

>>>But how to you transport a container-sized pellet making machine to a distant lake? And how do you load them only quickly onto an aircraft when there’s no runway.

Helicopter or truck or both

>>>So instead of pellets, have a giant shower nozzle say a metre in diameter or more. Then relegate to electronics to use for accurate wind speed measurement.

maybe more work needs to be done on “droplet sizes” from different heights different temps, humidty and varying wind conditions.

Could the pellets be made on route while journeying from the water source to the fire source?

This pellet system allows for dropping at night which is good news.

The pellet system would be a bit more stable than carrying water too I would imagine.

Tau.Neutrino said:

This pellet system allows for dropping at night which is good news.

The pellet system would be a bit more stable than carrying water too I would imagine.

The water is carried in baffled tanks so doesn’t slop about.

Tamb said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

This pellet system allows for dropping at night which is good news.

The pellet system would be a bit more stable than carrying water too I would imagine.

The water is carried in baffled tanks so doesn’t slop about.

ok

Here’s one dropping pellets

Better than both pellets and drops would be laminar flow water jets. These could be aimed very accurately and wouldn’t evaporate before reaching the ground. Richard Hammond showed how to make one from drinking straws on “Engineering connections”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=uZh8Dfymg38

Tau.Neutrino said:

mollwollfumble said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

High-altitude drop system allows night aerial firefighting

As part of an effort to make firefighting safer and more effective, Israel-based international defense electronics company Elbit Systems has demonstrated a new high-altitude, high-precision aerial firefighting system that allows aircraft to drop fire suppressants from much higher altitudes. Called HyDrop, the system successfully dropped liquid pellets from two Air Tractor aircraft at altitudes of up to 500 ft (150 m) in a field exercise led by the Israel Fire and Rescue Authority.

more…

> The company says that HyDrop comes with a static or mobile pellet-making machine that can fit in a standard 20-ft shipping container. This can produce 10 tons of pellets per hour, which can be filled with water or chemicals.

Um …

Uniform drop sizes certainly aid accuracy. Pellets can be made to give uniform drop sizes.

But how to you transport a container-sized pellet making machine to a distant lake? And how do you load them only quickly onto an aircraft when there’s no runway.

Perhaps better would be a special nozzle design that breaks the water from the water tank on an aircraft into near uniform drop sizes. A shower nozzle does this. So instead of pellets, have a giant shower nozzle say a metre in diameter or more. Then relegate to electronics to use for accurate wind speed measurement.

PS. I really hate to think what an Israeli defence contractor is doing dropping large pellets in a war situation. Slow release chemical and biological weapons would be my guess.

>>>But how to you transport a container-sized pellet making machine to a distant lake? And how do you load them only quickly onto an aircraft when there’s no runway.

Helicopter or truck or both

>>>So instead of pellets, have a giant shower nozzle say a metre in diameter or more. Then relegate to electronics to use for accurate wind speed measurement.

maybe more work needs to be done on “droplet sizes” from different heights different temps, humidty and varying wind conditions.

Could the pellets be made on route while journeying from the water source to the fire source?

This would be a good advancement if it works as it should in a real fire situation.

Sounds like it would be used for carrying fire suppressant though, not water. The tanker that crashed in the Snowy Mts this week was carrying fire suppressant which it had brought from Richmond, 300km away.

Speedy said:

This would be a good advancement if it works as it should in a real fire situation.

Sounds like it would be used for carrying fire suppressant though, not water. The tanker that crashed in the Snowy Mts this week was carrying fire suppressant which it had brought from Richmond, 300km away.

What is fire suppressant these days?

It used to be CFCs.
Foam is another way, stops the water draining away from the fire so helps to smother oxygen.
Gel would be similar, possibly more effective and if made from gelatine becomes fertiliser.
I’ve never known what a dry powder fire suppressant is made from.

I still like the idea of laminar water jets for aerial firefighting of forest fires. They are already used in fire hoses for skyscrapers. Better control of target, no premature evaporation, and loading of water from a lake in seconds.

So, apart from water and foam, which of these is most effective at extinguishing forest fires, and why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisher

Monoammonium phosphate.
Sodium bicarbonate
Potassium bicarbonate (principal constituent of Purple-K)
Potassium bicarbonate & Urea Complex (AKA Monnex)
Potassium chloride, or Super-K, dry chemical
Foam-compatible, which is a sodium bicarbonate (BC) based dry chemical
MET-L-KYL / PYROKYL
Aqueous film-forming foam (AFFF)
Alcohol-resistant aqueous film-forming foams (AR-AFFF)
Film-forming fluoroprotein (FFFP) contains naturally occurring proteins from animal by-products and synthetic film-forming agents
Compressed air foam system (CAFS):
Arctic Fire is a liquid fire extinguishing agent that emulsifies and cools
FireAde is a foaming agent that emulsifies burning liquids and renders them non-flammable.
Cold Fire
Wetting agents: Detergent based additives
Antifreeze chemicals added to water to lower its freezing point to about −40 °F (−40 °C).
Loaded Stream An alkali metal salt solution added to water to lower its freezing point to about −40 °F (−40 °C).
Halon (including Halon 1211 and Halon 1301)
Halocarbon replacements, HCFC Blend B, HFC-227ea, and HFC-236fa
CO2
Novec 1230 fluid (AKA dry water, or Saffire fluid), a fluorinated ketone that works by removing massive amounts of heat.
E-36 Cryotec, a type of high concentration, high-pressure wet chemical (potassium acetate and water)
Grenade, a hard foam shell wrapped in fuses that lead to a small black powder charge within