imagine the day, a time, when the force of marketing persuades you by way of impressions, grooms you into the ways of impression, that the world is mostly what is apparent, as it appears, how anything works is swamped by appearances

are we there yet?

yes

transition said:

imagine the day, a time, when the force of marketing persuades you by way of impressions, grooms you into the ways of impression, that the world is mostly what is apparent, as it appears, how anything works is swamped by appearances

are we there yet?

I think you overestimate the force of marketing.

Also I don’t think it operates in the direction you suggest.

transition said:

imagine the day, a time, when the force of marketing persuades you by way of impressions, grooms you into the ways of impression, that the world is mostly what is apparent, as it appears, how anything works is swamped by appearances

are we there yet?

Yes.

But on the other hand, The strict definition of ‘marketing’ excludes both advertising and sales. ‘Marketing’ as taught at university is strictly defined as ‘finding a market for’. I’m not fully convinced that ‘marketing’, as defined that way, has any influence whatsoever.

I try to follow the rule never to buy anything that I see a television advertisement for. As in ‘the secret to eating healthy is to never eat any food that has an advertisement’, but I also extend that policy to non-food items as well.

I like to think that I’ve been pretty successful, but it’s an uphill battle. None of the last five cars I’ve bought has had a TV ad at the time that I bought it.

they’ve done the studies on young humans exposed to pervasive advertising ˆ but don’t let science tell you the results

SCIENCE said:

they’ve done the studies on young humans exposed to pervasive advertising ˆ but don’t let science tell you the results

So we’re talking about the influence of advertising, rather than marketing? Asking for clarification.

Like this one?
https://academic.oup.com/jcr/article-abstract/27/1/31/1791544

(Note, the bastards are still blocking sci-hub).

Perhaps this one is better.
Consumer Culture Theory (CCT):Twenty Years of Research

You may need to follow through with one or more of the references from that paper to find a definitive answer.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

imagine the day, a time, when the force of marketing persuades you by way of impressions, grooms you into the ways of impression, that the world is mostly what is apparent, as it appears, how anything works is swamped by appearances

are we there yet?

I think you overestimate the force of marketing.

Also I don’t think it operates in the direction you suggest.

of course billions don’t go into it, and the machines on platforms aren’t constantly tweaking or being tweaked to maximize their effectiveness, best bang for buck

the devices people hold in their hands aren’t attractive because of the impressions provided on the screen, the reassurances that oranges are orange and the sky is blue, your 200,000 year old mind tools automatically adapted expectations of natural environment to include whatever, images of a new 4×4 traversing a mountain, and the freedom it promises

there is no shared culture or ideology one might generalize about marketing

they don’t seek to be grandly influential, there’s no overlap of interest, a simpler more natural environment has never been substantially replaced by what humans make and want to sell, people are largely immune to such things, the impressions of humans, no matter the status of the source of influences

and what of this free bullshit, people are induced into being casual criminals, well, they would be if the moral faculties weren’t partially disabled by the trick

transition said:

and what of this free bullshit, people are induced into being casual criminals, well, they would be if the moral faculties weren’t partially disabled by the trick

free bullshit?

It has never cost me anything but then I probably only get cowshit.

transition said:

and what of this free bullshit, people are induced into being casual criminals, well, they would be if the moral faculties weren’t partially disabled by the trick

Where do I get the free bullshit, and what sort of casual criminal activity is required?

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

imagine the day, a time, when the force of marketing persuades you by way of impressions, grooms you into the ways of impression, that the world is mostly what is apparent, as it appears, how anything works is swamped by appearances

are we there yet?

I think you overestimate the force of marketing.

Also I don’t think it operates in the direction you suggest.

of course billions don’t go into it, and the machines on platforms aren’t constantly tweaking or being tweaked to maximize their effectiveness, best bang for buck

the devices people hold in their hands aren’t attractive because of the impressions provided on the screen, the reassurances that oranges are orange and the sky is blue, your 200,000 year old mind tools automatically adapted expectations of natural environment to include whatever, images of a new 4×4 traversing a mountain, and the freedom it promises

there is no shared culture or ideology one might generalize about marketing

they don’t seek to be grandly influential, there’s no overlap of interest, a simpler more natural environment has never been substantially replaced by what humans make and want to sell, people are largely immune to such things, the impressions of humans, no matter the status of the source of influences

Yes you are 100% correct.

Either everything is exactly as you first stated, or it is the extreme opposite.

Nothing in between can possibly exist.

>Nothing in between can possibly exist

jesus, rev, I use some moderate hyperbole to give some force to an idea and you seem unreceptive, outright resistant, hardly indulged me at all, the mere thought now of continuing is exhausting me, the futility of it, i’m despondent, irretrievably so perhaps

transition said:

>Nothing in between can possibly exist

jesus, rev, I use some moderate hyperbole to give some force to an idea and you seem unreceptive, outright resistant, hardly indulged me at all, the mere thought now of continuing is exhausting me, the futility of it, i’m despondent, irretrievably so perhaps

Enough words there for a book.

roughbarked said:

transition said:

>Nothing in between can possibly exist

jesus, rev, I use some moderate hyperbole to give some force to an idea and you seem unreceptive, outright resistant, hardly indulged me at all, the mere thought now of continuing is exhausting me, the futility of it, i’m despondent, irretrievably so perhaps

Enough words there for a book.

the essence of the idea is the question of whether the commercial world has an interest in influencing normal, and the extent it does

transition said:

>Nothing in between can possibly exist

jesus, rev, I use some moderate hyperbole to give some force to an idea and you seem unreceptive, outright resistant, hardly indulged me at all, the mere thought now of continuing is exhausting me, the futility of it, i’m despondent, irretrievably so perhaps

Sorry

transition said:

roughbarked said:

transition said:

>Nothing in between can possibly exist

jesus, rev, I use some moderate hyperbole to give some force to an idea and you seem unreceptive, outright resistant, hardly indulged me at all, the mere thought now of continuing is exhausting me, the futility of it, i’m despondent, irretrievably so perhaps

Enough words there for a book.

the essence of the idea is the question of whether the commercial world has an interest in influencing normal, and the extent it does

Of course it is in their financial interest to groom the victims.

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

and what of this free bullshit, people are induced into being casual criminals, well, they would be if the moral faculties weren’t partially disabled by the trick

Where do I get the free bullshit, and what sort of casual criminal activity is required?

imagine there’s a space, call it the terrain of wants and needs, things you could purchase to realize the special attributes of money

consumer culture has an interest in loosening up what people might spend on, so i’m suggesting some softening of a dimension of the moral landscape to facilitate that

marketing

“the action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising”

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

and what of this free bullshit, people are induced into being casual criminals, well, they would be if the moral faculties weren’t partially disabled by the trick

Where do I get the free bullshit, and what sort of casual criminal activity is required?

imagine there’s a space, call it the terrain of wants and needs, things you could purchase to realize the special attributes of money

consumer culture has an interest in loosening up what people might spend on, so i’m suggesting some softening of a dimension of the moral landscape to facilitate that

marketing

“the action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising”

Thank you for the definition.

> Terrain of wants and needs

I wonder how this ties in with Maslow. Certainly not on the lowest level because money is involved.

So do we have to assume that we’re members of the “comfortable classes” in which we have both money and time?

How does addiction tie into this?

> softening of a dimension of the moral landscape to facilitate that

As in softening my anti-advertising morality? I mentioned above that I try to avoid all products that have an advertisement.

Or perhaps the consumer landscape is sort of – almost fractal – on the largest scale is the internet and ordering say cello parts from China.
On the scale below that perhaps a city, eg driving around to find the best price for petrol or a good new restaurant or music store.
On the scale below that perhaps a Westfield shopping centre or strip mall.
On the scale below that a department store or supermarket.
On the scale below that say a set of shelves full of different brands and styles of coffee.

And then moral landscape, perhaps as in “healthy food only”, “not a good price”, “crap quality”, “I’m impressed by their advertising” or more subtly as in “blue cap”?

Is that what you’re meaning when you talk about softening the moral landscape to explore the consumer culture?

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

and what of this free bullshit, people are induced into being casual criminals, well, they would be if the moral faculties weren’t partially disabled by the trick

Where do I get the free bullshit, and what sort of casual criminal activity is required?

imagine there’s a space, call it the terrain of wants and needs, things you could purchase to realize the special attributes of money

consumer culture has an interest in loosening up what people might spend on, so i’m suggesting some softening of a dimension of the moral landscape to facilitate that

marketing

“the action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising”

That doesn’t seem to answer the question.

>Is that what you’re meaning when you talk about softening the moral landscape to explore the consumer culture?

well, if you have or ever had an old school austere aunty, imagine she’s in the room with you, suddenly your wandering indulgences, your impulsive fancies seem different. She home cooks, no interest in takeaway, knows her own mind

transition said:

>Is that what you’re meaning when you talk about softening the moral landscape to explore the consumer culture?

well, if you have or ever had an old school austere aunty, imagine she’s in the room with you, suddenly your wandering indulgences, your impulsive fancies seem different. She home cooks, no interest in takeaway, knows her own mind

Ah, I think I see, I’m missing the other side of the coin.

I am that old school austere aunty.

mollwollfumble said:

transition said:

>Is that what you’re meaning when you talk about softening the moral landscape to explore the consumer culture?

well, if you have or ever had an old school austere aunty, imagine she’s in the room with you, suddenly your wandering indulgences, your impulsive fancies seem different. She home cooks, no interest in takeaway, knows her own mind

Ah, I think I see, I’m missing the other side of the coin.

I am that old school austere aunty.

now perhaps consider your austere aunty bought a takeaway food chain

anyway, moving on

consider the philosophy of the free-market economy you live in has some central idea related to self-organization, a self-organizing principle. It may be generous to call it a philosophy, but who needs a system of developed ideas anyway, when variously real things, real mechanisms do the job, call the latter market mechanisms, supply and demand etc

the self-organizing way has the benefit that all manner of things can be produced to accommodate wants and needs, quite reliably too, and money facilitates accurate value, measurement even, quite reliably a bag of apples is worth what you pay for them, that sort of thing, or what the seller can sell them for

it’s the diversity the market lends to though i’m interested in, the potential to accommodate any wants and needs, and in practice expanding them, a good thing, mostly

the self-organizing way has a soft, accommodating morality, which also is mostly a good thing

you may notice at this point that a soft accommodating morality can be had similarly by little or no morality, the two can be the same thing, the load of abstraction, the work of the moral faculties can be minimal, minimized, in fact spun the right way it can appeal to the sense of being liberated

get back to this later