probably same as conscious overreach, certainly overlaps

consider, as a starting position, the prospect of not making the mental states of sleep subordinate to wakefulness. They may tend to be subordinate because you do what you do during the day (typically, there’s light) so you can go to bed at night happy this and that has been done, attended to, and you sleep so not tired or not so tired for wakeful periods, to do it again tomorrow

shared beliefs may tend to incline sleep subordinate to wakefulness, consider though the possibility, for a moment, this to be potentially misguided, to be wrong, a device of ideology, notions inclining it are miniature ideologies

further, wakefulness, amplified by consciousness, may naturally incline views of sleep that translate into it being subordinate to wakefulness. Consider your sleep is subordinate to group wakefulness, the shared ideas of the wakeful world

notice a peaceful night’s sleep relies on your neighbors retreating to their own quiet, it’s a diurnal thing

wakeful overreach extends to all sorts, the idea of conscious overreach can similarly be played with, possibly yielding something useful

if you’ve ever had kids, wanted them to settle at days end, wind down, there’s an example of a type wakeful overreach, and they aren’t half imposing creatures

plenty to keep people awake these days, entertainments

so where is modern man, with wakeful overreach

do humans secretively envy plants and other animals, they seem not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

do humans secretively envy plants and other animals, they seem not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

secretly

transition said:

probably same as conscious overreach, certainly overlaps

consider, as a starting position, the prospect of not making the mental states of sleep subordinate to wakefulness. They may tend to be subordinate because you do what you do during the day (typically, there’s light) so you can go to bed at night happy this and that has been done, attended to, and you sleep so not tired or not so tired for wakeful periods, to do it again tomorrow

shared beliefs may tend to incline sleep subordinate to wakefulness, consider though the possibility, for a moment, this to be potentially misguided, to be wrong, a device of ideology, notions inclining it are miniature ideologies

further, wakefulness, amplified by consciousness, may naturally incline views of sleep that translate into it being subordinate to wakefulness. Consider your sleep is subordinate to group wakefulness, the shared ideas of the wakeful world

notice a peaceful night’s sleep relies on your neighbors retreating to their own quiet, it’s a diurnal thing

wakeful overreach extends to all sorts, the idea of conscious overreach can similarly be played with, possibly yielding something useful

if you’ve ever had kids, wanted them to settle at days end, wind down, there’s an example of a type wakeful overreach, and they aren’t half imposing creatures

plenty to keep people awake these days, entertainments

so where is modern man, with wakeful overreach

do humans secretively envy plants and other animals, they seem not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

Suggest and implement an experiment to test these ideas.

transition said:

so where is modern man, with wakeful overreach

do humans secretively envy plants and other animals, they seem not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

Seeming isn’t always what it actually is.

dv said:

transition said:

probably same as conscious overreach, certainly overlaps

consider, as a starting position, the prospect of not making the mental states of sleep subordinate to wakefulness. They may tend to be subordinate because you do what you do during the day (typically, there’s light) so you can go to bed at night happy this and that has been done, attended to, and you sleep so not tired or not so tired for wakeful periods, to do it again tomorrow

shared beliefs may tend to incline sleep subordinate to wakefulness, consider though the possibility, for a moment, this to be potentially misguided, to be wrong, a device of ideology, notions inclining it are miniature ideologies

further, wakefulness, amplified by consciousness, may naturally incline views of sleep that translate into it being subordinate to wakefulness. Consider your sleep is subordinate to group wakefulness, the shared ideas of the wakeful world

notice a peaceful night’s sleep relies on your neighbors retreating to their own quiet, it’s a diurnal thing

wakeful overreach extends to all sorts, the idea of conscious overreach can similarly be played with, possibly yielding something useful

if you’ve ever had kids, wanted them to settle at days end, wind down, there’s an example of a type wakeful overreach, and they aren’t half imposing creatures

plenty to keep people awake these days, entertainments

so where is modern man, with wakeful overreach

do humans secretly envy plants and other animals, they seem not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

Suggest and implement an experiment to test these ideas.

> consider, as a starting position, the prospect of not making the mental states of sleep subordinate to wakefulness.

Examples: hibernation, minimising environmental impact, ability to clear out unwanted emotions and memories.

> the idea of conscious overreach can similarly be played with.

Examples: the zombie, again reducing environmental impact, freedom from stress and war.

> do humans secretly envy plants and other animals

Animals that can hibernate, sure.

> do plants and other animals not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

Interesting idea. eg. do moths suffer from sleep deprivation through conscious overreach in the presence of street lighting? Does human noise cause sleep deprivation in animals? Possibly even plants, too. Do the interiors of human houses and cars stay relatively clear of mosquitos and flies because they cause conscious overreach in such animals for example through acoustic reflection or human smells?

I think fear of mountain lions can cause sleep deprivation from wakeful overreach in deer.

Perhaps wakeful overreach can kill plants, they seem to drop dead without warning.

manic states, consideration of, could yield something interesting of wakeful overreach, though i’ll concede it may be of no interest whatsoever, apparently useful for not much, even a totally useless idea, which could be exactly what’s needed

>Suggest and implement an experiment to test these ideas

need think about that, to great extent the whatever is of the world of mental states, subjective matters, intangibles, what I do know is ideology operates in the territory of intangibles, soft reality

but more it’s a counter idea, which asks what is the situation of the absence of a counter idea or view

like, consider a child, a hyperactive toddler, that has no ideas, no working concepts, no abstraction in the territory of the idea of wakeful and conscious overreach

transition said:

> manic states, consideration of, could yield something interesting of wakeful overreach, though i’ll concede it may be of no interest whatsoever, apparently useful for not much, even a totally useless idea, which could be exactly what’s needed

>Suggest and implement an experiment to test these ideas

need think about that, to great extent the whatever is of the world of mental states, subjective matters, intangibles, what I do know is ideology operates in the territory of intangibles, soft reality

but more it’s a counter idea, which asks what is the situation of the absence of a counter idea or view

like, consider a child, a hyperactive toddler, that has no ideas, no working concepts, no abstraction in the territory of the idea of wakeful and conscious overreach

> a hyperactive toddler

Only hyperactive relative to its parents. Unless active due to pain.

Is hyperactive a measure of wakeful overreach or conscious overreach? In the case of a toddler it would seem not. Most of the time.

Wakeful overreach or conscious overreach can be a consequence of hyperstimulation, which I take it is the thrust of this thread, and other threads by transition. Removal of hyperstimulation causes depression because we become addicted to it. This gets overcome – eventually.

The lack of hyperstimulation is a major part of why prisoners fear solitary confinement. The brain makes up for the lack of external stimulation (wakeful underreach) by internal brain overactivity: vivid dreams, hallucinations, hearing voices, tending towards psychotic symptoms and complete mental disintegration.

So wakeful underreach is deadlier than wakeful overreach. But one experiment showed that the best defence against hypostimulation is sleep.

transition said:

probably same as conscious overreach, certainly overlaps

consider, as a starting position, the prospect of not making the mental states of sleep subordinate to wakefulness. They may tend to be subordinate because you do what you do during the day (typically, there’s light) so you can go to bed at night happy this and that has been done, attended to, and you sleep so not tired or not so tired for wakeful periods, to do it again tomorrow

shared beliefs may tend to incline sleep subordinate to wakefulness, consider though the possibility, for a moment, this to be potentially misguided, to be wrong, a device of ideology, notions inclining it are miniature ideologies

further, wakefulness, amplified by consciousness, may naturally incline views of sleep that translate into it being subordinate to wakefulness. Consider your sleep is subordinate to group wakefulness, the shared ideas of the wakeful world

notice a peaceful night’s sleep relies on your neighbors retreating to their own quiet, it’s a diurnal thing

wakeful overreach extends to all sorts, the idea of conscious overreach can similarly be played with, possibly yielding something useful

if you’ve ever had kids, wanted them to settle at days end, wind down, there’s an example of a type wakeful overreach, and they aren’t half imposing creatures

plenty to keep people awake these days, entertainments

so where is modern man, with wakeful overreach

do humans secretively envy plants and other animals, they seem not to suffer wakeful overreach, or conscious overreach

Might comment later, but for now:

Nightfall, o river of night flow through me
Washing the thoughts of the day on your waters away
For the morrow that dawns never knew me

Nightfall nightfall folding her dark locks around you
Her eyes they have found you
Would show you this new dream they’re holding

O sleep, o come to me you who are night’s daughter
And I’ll give you my eyes for the colors that rise
As time’s echoes reflect on your water

>Wakeful overreach or conscious overreach can be a consequence of hyperstimulation, which I take it is the thrust of this thread, and other threads by transition

save you guessing, it’s an amateur analysis of the egalitarian ethic from the angle of or involving a homeostasis perspective, the balance of group and individual homeostasis

i’ve introduced the idea of wakefulness and consciousness trespass (overreach), distortions from, asked the question what happens if the mental states of sleep are subordinate to wakeful mental states, asked whether the ideas of wakefulness should dominate, or ways of the wakeful world should dominate, and what the situation is if you’re deprived of the question (abstraction in this field of thought)