Does infanticide have a family equivalent? Familicde ?

Are both classed as murder?

Is emotional violence classed as a crime?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Does infanticide have a family equivalent? Familicde ?

Are both classed as murder?

Familicide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familicide

A familicide is a type of murder or murder-suicide in which a perpetrator kills multiple close family members in quick succession, most often children, relatives, spouse, siblings, or parents. In half the cases, the killer lastly kills themselves in a murder-suicide.

If only the parents are killed, the case may also be referred to as a parricide. Where all members of a family are killed, the crime may be referred to as family annihilation

see also Filicide, Parricide, Sororicide, Mariticide,

ok, well they are all new words for me. I was only aware of one.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is emotional violence classed as a crime?

Yes. The law specifically lists and distinguishes five types of abuse in domestic violence.

Physical abuse
Verbal abuse
Emotional abuse
Sexual abuse
Financial abuse

Missy was a victim of four of those in her first relationship, including extreme emotional abuse. She very quickly got a restraining order, within a day of applying for it. Getting her to go to the police was the toughest part.

Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Do they have things like that in place?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Do they have things like that in place?

No.

>If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

app’s being trialed, just reading coober pedy regional times

transition said:

>If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

app’s being trialed, just reading coober pedy regional times

Good news.

Very Loud beepers may help too.

In other news the chap who invented Cut Copy and Past was cut from the world yesterday.

Peak Warming Man said:

In other news the chap who invented Cut Copy and Past was cut from the world yesterday.

Has he been pasted elsewhere?

Michael V said:

Peak Warming Man said:

In other news the chap who invented Cut Copy and Past was cut from the world yesterday.

Has he been pasted elsewhere?

Unknown.

New smartphone app ‘could be a lifesaver’ for victims of domestic violence
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-26/new-smartphone-app-available-for-victims-of-domestic-violence/10553434

How Domestic Violence App Can Safeguard Victims
https://womenlovetech.com/how-domestic-violence-app-can-safeguard-victims/

Safety apps for mobile phones
https://www.1800respect.org.au/help-and-support/safety-apps-for-mobile-phones/

Michael V said:

Peak Warming Man said:

In other news the chap who invented Cut Copy and Past was cut from the world yesterday.

Has he been pasted elsewhere?

If he got cut, he could have been pasted in Heaven.

What we’re getting wrong about domestic violence following death of Hannah Clarke and her three children
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-22/hannah-clarke-murder-domestic-violence-what-we-are-getting-wrong/11988412

Tau.Neutrino said:

What we’re getting wrong about domestic violence following death of Hannah Clarke and her three children
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-22/hannah-clarke-murder-domestic-violence-what-we-are-getting-wrong/11988412

She knew he was going to kill her. She sought help.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-22/hannah-clarke-family-speak-out-after-her-murder/11990270

We need to teach children and teenagers emotional awareness and emotional control from K1 upwards to secondary school.

and life education during secondary school covering relationships, rejection and jealousy.

Tau.Neutrino said:

We need to teach children and teenagers emotional awareness and emotional control from K1 upwards to secondary school.

and life education during secondary school covering relationships, rejection and jealousy.

What makes you think people who are doing the wrong thing don’t know they are doing the wrong thing?

so many cides, it’s like rolling dice, as dv says, roll the numbered cube or die, it’s all à bit random, genericide

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

We need to teach children and teenagers emotional awareness and emotional control from K1 upwards to secondary school.

and life education during secondary school covering relationships, rejection and jealousy.

What makes you think people who are doing the wrong thing don’t know they are doing the wrong thing?

agree, compare global warming, is the problem that we don’t know what is wrong and how to right it, or that big players are not doing their bit

TRIGGER WARNING: Domestic Violence

When I first moved out, and Lauren and I had just started living together, I would get angry and break things. Smash a plate, or break a broom out the back.

My mate Troy and I were driving to Broadway Shopping Centre one day and I told him about an argument that Lauren and I had that ended up with me smashing something. He told me, in no uncertain terms, that what I was doing was violence that would one day turn into me pushing Lauren, which would one day turn into me punching Lauren, which would one day turn into me hitting our kids. And it might stop there but maybe it wouldn’t. Maybe one day it would turn into the kind of thing we have seen happen just recently where a man set a car alight with his children and their mother inside. (All because she tried to leave.)

I remember being shocked and resistant to the idea. I would never — and have never — hit or physically hurt my partner. I was not the kind of man that would commit domestic violence, let alone MURDER someone. Let alone a woman, let alone my partner. I was just the kind of person who needed to break a rake now and then when Lauren and I couldn’t resolve a fight. That was all it was. Just a plate or two. Or a hole in the wall.

But what Troy said wouldn’t leave my mind. He was so very angry with me at the time. He didn’t swear at me, he didn’t abuse me, but he was mad about it. It didn’t ruin the day, we finished our shopping and hung out after but he was angry about me smashing the plate. Or the rake. Or the broom. Whatever it was, I can’t remember. I broke a lot of stuff.

So I read up on it that night. I read stories from domestic violence survivors, I read articles and advice written by experts who deal with this sort of thing. And Troy was right. Abusive words escalate, smashing stuff escalates, pushing escalates, punching escalates. Murder doesn’t. Murder is the final escalation.

I was gobsmacked. Sad. Confused. I was a good man. I loved my partner. I would love our kids. I would never — had never — laid a hand on her. But every thing I read began similarly, “he always used to get angry, and then he started punching holes in the wall/smashing plates/slamming doors.” These stories ended with violence. Always. Because, I realised, they started with violence.

The smashing of plates, the slamming of doors, the punching of walls. It’s all violence. It’s all the start of a burning wick that leads to a horrific end. These objects are placeholders for the people we aren’t allowed to hit. And one day, those placeholders don’t do the job anymore and a push makes its way into the argument. Just a push. It’s not a big deal, you rationalise, and you’re sorry. And it won’t happen again, you say. And you don’t want it to happen again, you know. Because, of course you don’t. You are a good man. A good man who doesn’t hit his partner, doesn’t beat his kids, wouldn’t cover the car in petrol and set them alight.

But domestic violence doesn’t work like that. It isn’t born only in bad or evil men. Domestic violence is born from small changes in already violent acts. It doesn’t care how good you want to be, and it doesn’t care how good you‘ve been in the past. It doesn’t care how much you love or how much you don’t. It doesn’t care that you are, by all accounts, good. These behaviours don’t care about your intentions, they aren’t even there for you. They are there to be the food that feeds the monster of anger and aggression. And that beast will grow in size and want for more food. It will want for more aggressive behaviours in order to quiet. And you’ll give in because every escalation is only a small step from the last one and every time it happens it is easier for it to happen again. And every time it happens again you make an excuse that if she hadn’t done what she had done or said what she had said, you wouldn’t have done what you did. Because you’re a good man. You know you are. I mean, come on, let’s not make a big deal out of it, you just broke a plate. You just punched a wall. You only pushed her back, hit her once, burned her and your children alive in a car.

We must end the myth of the good man. It isn’t only bad men who are susceptible to perpetrating domestic violence. Good men are only a couple of hundred incremental changes away from being bad men. Which is why good men don’t think they can become bad men and bad men don’t think they’ve changed.

Obviously, I don’t know what would have happened if Troy hadn’t called me on my behaviour. Maybe none of it would have escalated. That’s not what the research says is likely but maybe I am different. Maybe I just would have smashed plates forever. But that’s the point, we don’t know where that ends. We only know that, unaddressed, that behaviour has only two possible outcomes: it either stays the same or it escalates. Those are the only two choices. There is no possible world in which someone starts breaking kitchenware and just one day stops all of a sudden. They either keep breaking kitchenware or they move onto people. Or, they get help.

I dealt with my anger by seeking professional help. I received a diagnosis of ADHD in my late 20s which I was able to treat and which helped me understand why I wasn’t processing arguments the way I was told I should be. I was able to develop tools that allowed me to do that with professional help. (Spoilers: I’m still insufferable when it comes to arguments, I just don’t get mad or smash stuff anymore.)

If any man is reading this and feels ashamed that they do the same thing then I hope you know I felt ashamed too. I still feel ashamed about it. I questioned writing this because I wondered if people I knew would be ashamed of me or if their opinion would change. Even though I never hit or hurt anyone. They were just plates. I feel ashamed because admitting that what I did was what all abusive husbands once did would mean admitting that maybe one day I could hit a woman, hurt our kids, end up as “not a good man”. If you are ashamed, so was I. But that shame is healthy.

Shame can come without judgement from those who want you to get better, to do better. You will find no judgement from a professional who can help give you the tools to be better. You will find no judgement from the psychiatrist who may be able to diagnose a neurological condition or mental health problem you didn’t know you had. And I hope you find no judgement from your friends and family when you tell them you think you need to deal with your anger in a professional setting and become a better man. An acknowledgement of shame can be healthy and we can grow from it. We can be better men not in spite of our shame but because of it. In fact, I’d argue, we can only be better men by being ashamed of our unacceptable behaviours.

And we must be better men. We must be better husbands and partners. We must be better fathers. And we must be better mates. Like Troy was to me. Nothing will change without us changing ourselves, without holding our friends and family members accountable, change can only truly come from us because it starts there. And it ends there. It starts and ends with us.

I never thanked Troy for what he did and said that day. I never thanked him for his caring, rational, non-judgmental, and non-violent anger. But he’ll read this so here it is: Thank you for what you said that day, thank you for holding me accountable, and thank you for helping me be better. Thank you for being what it actually means to be a mate.

It is time for all of us to leave the want to be a good man behind and embrace the need to be a better one. Because that’s the only kind of good that matters.

If you or anyone you know needs help:
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE on 1800 RESPECT
LIFELINE on 13 11 14
KIDS HELPLINE on 1800 551 800
MENSLINE AUSTRALIA on 1300 789 978
SUICIDE CALLBACK SERVICE on 1300 659 467
BEYOND BLUE on 1300 224 636
HEADSPACE on 1800 650 890
REACHOUT at au.reachout.com
CARE LEAVERS AUSTRALASIA NETWORK (CLAN) on 1800 008 774

Or you can speak to your GP to discuss referral options.

sarahs mum said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

We need to teach children and teenagers emotional awareness and emotional control from K1 upwards to secondary school.

and life education during secondary school covering relationships, rejection and jealousy.

What makes you think people who are doing the wrong thing don’t know they are doing the wrong thing?

Issues like that would be discussed

We live on a chemical world in chemical bodies and are driven by chemical needs.

Its possible that a person does not know they are doing the wrong thing.

Its also very likely that they do know what they are doing.

Human rights and ethics of human behavior should be included in life education as well

Divine Angel said:

TRIGGER WARNING: Domestic Violence

When I first moved out, and Lauren and I had just started living together, I would get angry and break things. Smash a plate, or break a broom out the back.

My mate Troy and I were driving to Broadway Shopping Centre one day and I told him about an argument that Lauren and I had that ended up with me smashing something. He told me, in no uncertain terms, that what I was doing was violence that would one day turn into me pushing Lauren, which would one day turn into me punching Lauren, which would one day turn into me hitting our kids. And it might stop there but maybe it wouldn’t. Maybe one day it would turn into the kind of thing we have seen happen just recently where a man set a car alight with his children and their mother inside. (All because she tried to leave.)

I remember being shocked and resistant to the idea. I would never — and have never — hit or physically hurt my partner. I was not the kind of man that would commit domestic violence, let alone MURDER someone. Let alone a woman, let alone my partner. I was just the kind of person who needed to break a rake now and then when Lauren and I couldn’t resolve a fight. That was all it was. Just a plate or two. Or a hole in the wall.

But what Troy said wouldn’t leave my mind. He was so very angry with me at the time. He didn’t swear at me, he didn’t abuse me, but he was mad about it. It didn’t ruin the day, we finished our shopping and hung out after but he was angry about me smashing the plate. Or the rake. Or the broom. Whatever it was, I can’t remember. I broke a lot of stuff.

So I read up on it that night. I read stories from domestic violence survivors, I read articles and advice written by experts who deal with this sort of thing. And Troy was right. Abusive words escalate, smashing stuff escalates, pushing escalates, punching escalates. Murder doesn’t. Murder is the final escalation.

I was gobsmacked. Sad. Confused. I was a good man. I loved my partner. I would love our kids. I would never — had never — laid a hand on her. But every thing I read began similarly, “he always used to get angry, and then he started punching holes in the wall/smashing plates/slamming doors.” These stories ended with violence. Always. Because, I realised, they started with violence.

The smashing of plates, the slamming of doors, the punching of walls. It’s all violence. It’s all the start of a burning wick that leads to a horrific end. These objects are placeholders for the people we aren’t allowed to hit. And one day, those placeholders don’t do the job anymore and a push makes its way into the argument. Just a push. It’s not a big deal, you rationalise, and you’re sorry. And it won’t happen again, you say. And you don’t want it to happen again, you know. Because, of course you don’t. You are a good man. A good man who doesn’t hit his partner, doesn’t beat his kids, wouldn’t cover the car in petrol and set them alight.

But domestic violence doesn’t work like that. It isn’t born only in bad or evil men. Domestic violence is born from small changes in already violent acts. It doesn’t care how good you want to be, and it doesn’t care how good you‘ve been in the past. It doesn’t care how much you love or how much you don’t. It doesn’t care that you are, by all accounts, good. These behaviours don’t care about your intentions, they aren’t even there for you. They are there to be the food that feeds the monster of anger and aggression. And that beast will grow in size and want for more food. It will want for more aggressive behaviours in order to quiet. And you’ll give in because every escalation is only a small step from the last one and every time it happens it is easier for it to happen again. And every time it happens again you make an excuse that if she hadn’t done what she had done or said what she had said, you wouldn’t have done what you did. Because you’re a good man. You know you are. I mean, come on, let’s not make a big deal out of it, you just broke a plate. You just punched a wall. You only pushed her back, hit her once, burned her and your children alive in a car.

We must end the myth of the good man. It isn’t only bad men who are susceptible to perpetrating domestic violence. Good men are only a couple of hundred incremental changes away from being bad men. Which is why good men don’t think they can become bad men and bad men don’t think they’ve changed.

Obviously, I don’t know what would have happened if Troy hadn’t called me on my behaviour. Maybe none of it would have escalated. That’s not what the research says is likely but maybe I am different. Maybe I just would have smashed plates forever. But that’s the point, we don’t know where that ends. We only know that, unaddressed, that behaviour has only two possible outcomes: it either stays the same or it escalates. Those are the only two choices. There is no possible world in which someone starts breaking kitchenware and just one day stops all of a sudden. They either keep breaking kitchenware or they move onto people. Or, they get help.

I dealt with my anger by seeking professional help. I received a diagnosis of ADHD in my late 20s which I was able to treat and which helped me understand why I wasn’t processing arguments the way I was told I should be. I was able to develop tools that allowed me to do that with professional help. (Spoilers: I’m still insufferable when it comes to arguments, I just don’t get mad or smash stuff anymore.)

If any man is reading this and feels ashamed that they do the same thing then I hope you know I felt ashamed too. I still feel ashamed about it. I questioned writing this because I wondered if people I knew would be ashamed of me or if their opinion would change. Even though I never hit or hurt anyone. They were just plates. I feel ashamed because admitting that what I did was what all abusive husbands once did would mean admitting that maybe one day I could hit a woman, hurt our kids, end up as “not a good man”. If you are ashamed, so was I. But that shame is healthy.

Shame can come without judgement from those who want you to get better, to do better. You will find no judgement from a professional who can help give you the tools to be better. You will find no judgement from the psychiatrist who may be able to diagnose a neurological condition or mental health problem you didn’t know you had. And I hope you find no judgement from your friends and family when you tell them you think you need to deal with your anger in a professional setting and become a better man. An acknowledgement of shame can be healthy and we can grow from it. We can be better men not in spite of our shame but because of it. In fact, I’d argue, we can only be better men by being ashamed of our unacceptable behaviours.

And we must be better men. We must be better husbands and partners. We must be better fathers. And we must be better mates. Like Troy was to me. Nothing will change without us changing ourselves, without holding our friends and family members accountable, change can only truly come from us because it starts there. And it ends there. It starts and ends with us.

I never thanked Troy for what he did and said that day. I never thanked him for his caring, rational, non-judgmental, and non-violent anger. But he’ll read this so here it is: Thank you for what you said that day, thank you for holding me accountable, and thank you for helping me be better. Thank you for being what it actually means to be a mate.

It is time for all of us to leave the want to be a good man behind and embrace the need to be a better one. Because that’s the only kind of good that matters.

If you or anyone you know needs help:
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE on 1800 RESPECT
LIFELINE on 13 11 14
KIDS HELPLINE on 1800 551 800
MENSLINE AUSTRALIA on 1300 789 978
SUICIDE CALLBACK SERVICE on 1300 659 467
BEYOND BLUE on 1300 224 636
HEADSPACE on 1800 650 890
REACHOUT at au.reachout.com
CARE LEAVERS AUSTRALASIA NETWORK (CLAN) on 1800 008 774

Or you can speak to your GP to discuss referral options.

What a fantastic short essay.

Signs of an abusive relationship
https://au.reachout.com/articles/signs-of-an-abusive-relationship

How to Recognize the 64 Signs of Mental and Emotional Abuse
https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse

11 Subtle Signs You Might Be In An Emotionally Abusive Relationship
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/signs-of-emotional-abuse-relationship_n_5a999fbee4b0a0ba4ad31a4d

Michael V said:

What a fantastic short essay.

The first time you raise your hand…you’ve gone over the edge, and there’s probably only one way to go after that.

I know of a bloke who rescued someone from DV. A male friend of his, who was violent towards his wife.

He put together the clues, and realised what was going on, and then he actually witnessed it.

At that point he said ‘‘you, back off or you’ll have to deal with me. You, go pack a bag, you’re coming with me”.

And he basically ‘covered’ her while she got her things together, and then they exited.

It was what she’d been needing and waiting for – some protection when and while she made her escape.

He stood by her through her divorce, as her support and safeguard.

Unsurprisingly, a relationship developed, and eventually he and the lady married and had a daughter.

Last i saw of them, they were still very happy together.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Do they have things like that in place?

No.

> Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

Those people will already have a record of serious psychiatric illness. And will also be very good at fooling mental health workers into thinking that their illness is less serious than it really is. eg. pretending depression and OCD in order to hide psychopath. Pretending to be on the road to recovery.

> If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

Only in the instance of a re-offence. Not first offence. Perhaps not second. Definitely for third.

> If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Nah. This would allow the perpetrator to emotionally abuse the victim from a distance.

mollwollfumble said:

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Do they have things like that in place?

No.

> Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

Those people will already have a record of serious psychiatric illness. And will also be very good at fooling mental health workers into thinking that their illness is less serious than it really is. eg. pretending depression and OCD in order to hide psychopath. Pretending to be on the road to recovery.

> If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

Only in the instance of a re-offence. Not first offence. Perhaps not second. Definitely for third.

> If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Nah. This would allow the perpetrator to emotionally abuse the victim from a distance.

>>>Nah. This would allow the perpetrator to emotionally abuse the victim from a distance.

ok, I didn’t think of that.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Should people who instigate domestic violence be forced to see a psychiatrist and a mental health worker?

If there is a court order for separation should the instigator wear an ankle locator?

If the instigator gets near the victim, an emergency seek shelter alert is sent to the victim?

Do they have things like that in place?

If they are put on an order they usually get a programme requirement, this usually means DV counselling, some attend some don’t those that don’t our office gets and they are sent back to court
They don’t have the resources to monitor large numbers of people on electronic monitoring, in WA it’s used to monitor people released from prison awaiting sentencing that are considered a risk but not enough of a risk to lock up.

• They don’t have the resources to monitor large numbers of people on electronic monitoring

Presumably these monitors have some kind of location tracker? Could get an app on the phone of the other party to alert at a certain proximity. If the other party accepts being monitored too then an automated system could alert authorities when a line is breached…

furious said:

• They don’t have the resources to monitor large numbers of people on electronic monitoring

Presumably these monitors have some kind of location tracker? Could get an app on the phone of the other party to alert at a certain proximity. If the other party accepts being monitored too then an automated system could alert authorities when a line is breached…

Yes you can’t move out the confines of your house without permission and that is also time limited location limited and sends out alerts if you don’t return

furious said:

• They don’t have the resources to monitor large numbers of people on electronic monitoring

Presumably these monitors have some kind of location tracker? Could get an app on the phone of the other party to alert at a certain proximity. If the other party accepts being monitored too then an automated system could alert authorities when a line is breached…

It’s easy to disable GPS on any given device. Plus apps/devices can be hacked.

Pauline Hanson has suggested killer dad Rowan Baxter may have been “driven to it” when he burned his three children and wife to death, adding “these things happen”.

Speaking on the Today show this morning, she called on Australians not to “bastardise all men” as a reaction to the despicable crime in Brisbane on Wednesday where Baxter killed his three children and wife by setting them on fire.

“Don’t bastardise all men out there, or women for that matter, because these things happen,” she said.

On domestic violence she said: “A lot of people are driven to this, to do these acts for one reason or another.”

She said domestic-violence-related murders committed by women didn’t appear to get the same amount of coverage as those committed by men.

“You know, this has been for a week we have been in the news nearly every day about this horrific tragedy,” she said.

“But we don’t hear much about it when a woman has murdered her children by driving a car into a tree, she threw out a suicide note.

“Or the woman who doused her husband with fuel and set him alight and said she was possibly driven to it.

“Hopefully the family law inquiry will get to the bottom of it.”

She also defended commentator Bettina Arndt, who made controversial comments about the Baxter murders.

Ms Arndt praised a Queensland detective Mark Thompson for saying Baxter may have been “driven too far” — comments which led him to being taken off the case.

“Congratulations to the Queensland police for keeping an open mind and awaiting proper evidence, including the possibility that Rowan Baxter might have been ‘driven too far’,” Ms Arndt wrote on Twitter.

“But note the misplaced outrage. How dare police deviate from the feminist script of seeking excuses and explanations when women stab their partners to death, or drive their children into dams but immediately judging a man in these circumstances as simply representing the evil violence that is in all men.”

Her tweet renewed calls for her to be stripped of her recently acquired Order of Australia honour, but Senator Hanson defended the comments.

“It was a horrendous act of what he did to his children,” she said. “It was a tragedy and I am very deeply sorry for everyone.

“Family and friends involved in this treacherous of what he did to his former wife and his children.

“But Bettina Arndt should not be stripped of her Order of Australia. She is clearly stating what she thinks and what a police officer said.

“This is why I have pushed for the family law inquiry to get behind what is happening on this.”

Senator Hanson’s comments come just hours after mourners heard the heroic and loving nature of mother Hannah Clarke at a vigil in South Brisbane to remember her and her three murdered children, Laianah, Aaliyah and Trey.

Friend Simon Farmer spoke to The Australian about Ms Clarke’s final hours in hospital, after she had suffered burns to 97 per cent of her body.

“We were in the ICU and we knew there was no hope,’’ Mr Farmer told The Australian.

“The nurse held up the footprint and said, ‘This is all we could get’. It was just an incredibly powerful moment.’’

The day after Ms Clarke’s murder, Mr Farmer posted on Facebook about the “unease” shared among her friends about “what Rowan might do”.

“He had it in him many thought,” Mr Farmer posted.

Mr Farmer said Baxter loved his children, but “we can’t remember him as a loving father because his final act is what defines this man, this man who became a monster”.

He also talked about Ms Clarke’s final hours in hospital after the tragedy.

“She hung in there too … until the last heartbeat brought a tidal wave of grief and anger. I’ll never forget that.

“You should all know how strong she was, she fought so hard.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/pauline-hanson-says-these-things-happen-after-dad-burns-three-kids-and-wife-to-death/news-story/fb00413289e497d8da1e3eb47293312d

I wish that anybody other than Pauline was running the family law inquiry.

“These things happen.”

Yes, they do. And they shouldn’t. Hannah and her children were murdered because our current system is not working.

I can’t even imagine the horror felt by those kids and their mum in their final moments.