Self-aware computers have been a staple of science fiction for a long time.
But has anyone actually tried to make one?
How? And how did the experiment go?
If not, how would you go about doing it?
I’m not asking about trying to mimic the human brain on computer, that’s a completely different topic.
mollwollfumble said:
But has anyone actually tried to make one?
Yes.
mollwollfumble said:
How?
NN simulation
mollwollfumble said:
And how did the experiment go?
we don’t have the resources
mollwollfumble said:
I’m not asking about trying to mimic the human brain on computer, that’s a completely different topic.
or the same
How do you tell if it is self-aware or not?
Do you take the computers word for it?
Or are there reliable tests?
self-aware things get headaches, and grumble about stuff
The Rev Dodgson said:
How do you tell if it is self-aware or not?Do you take the computers word for it?
Or are there reliable tests?
ah but are you ¿
SCIENCE said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
How do you tell if it is self-aware or not?Do you take the computers word for it?
Or are there reliable tests?
ah but are you ¿
I’m sure I am.
But I ha’ ma doubts about thee.
transition said:
self-aware things get headaches, and grumble about stuff
Can you pick up that piece of paper Marvin, that ‘s what they say to me.
Can I pick up that piece of paper?
Me, with a brain the size of a planet.
The Rev Dodgson said:
transition said:
self-aware things get headaches, and grumble about stuff
Can you pick up that piece of paper Marvin, that ‘s what they say to me.
Can I pick up that piece of paper?
Me, with a brain the size of a planet.
open the pod bay door marvin.
ChrispenEvan said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
transition said:
self-aware things get headaches, and grumble about stuff
Can you pick up that piece of paper Marvin, that ‘s what they say to me.
Can I pick up that piece of paper?
Me, with a brain the size of a planet.open the pod bay door marvin.
The first ten million years were the worst, and the second ten million years, they were the worst too…
The Rev Dodgson said:
transition said:
self-aware things get headaches, and grumble about stuff
Can you pick up that piece of paper Marvin, that ‘s what they say to me.
Can I pick up that piece of paper?
Me, with a brain the size of a planet.
chuckle
even victor meldrew has got self-awareness, in fact I doubt the show would be entertaining if the viewer had no sense of mental discomfort
A Robot Has Just Passed a Classic Self-Awareness Test For The First Time. 17 JULY 2015 (5 years ago)
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-robot-has-just-passed-a-classic-self-awareness-test-for-the-first-time
Machines Demonstrate Self-Awareness. April 2018
https://becominghuman.ai/machines-demonstrate-self-awareness-8bd08ceb1694
How to Build a Self-Conscious Machine 10.04.2017
https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-build-a-self-conscious-ai-machine/
Will AI Ever Become Conscious? May 24, 2018
https://www.livescience.com/62656-when-will-ai-be-conscious.html
thinking lastnight as went to bed, just maybe force of thought (or the apparently liberating experience) inclines the wrong angle on what generates self-aware consciousness
consider though, by way of analogy, a westinghouse safety brake system (like train brakes), as opposed to the typical arrangement of brakes used in your car, for example
in the safety brake system the return springs are critically important, they apply pressure to the discs or hubs or whatever wheel surface via pads as air pressure reduces, or when air pressure is lost. The springs apply the pads to the friction surfaces rather than retract them from the friction surfaces
i’ve probably simplified that above, but the idea’s there
springs are seen as passive components
indulge me now, i’ll torture the analogy, consider the springs not to be passive
> NN simulation
The Rev Dodgson said:
How do you tell if it is self-aware or not?Do you take the computers word for it?
Or are there reliable tests?
> self-aware things get headaches, and grumble about stuff
Tau.Neutrino said:
A Robot Has Just Passed a Classic Self-Awareness Test For The First Time. 17 JULY 2015 (5 years ago) https://www.sciencealert.com/a-robot-has-just-passed-a-classic-self-awareness-test-for-the-first-timeMachines Demonstrate Self-Awareness. April 2018
https://becominghuman.ai/machines-demonstrate-self-awareness-8bd08ceb1694How to Build a Self-Conscious Machine 10.04.2017
https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-build-a-self-conscious-ai-machine/Will AI Ever Become Conscious? May 24, 2018
https://www.livescience.com/62656-when-will-ai-be-conscious.html
Some fascinating ideas there.
Heinlein’s guide to whether a computer was self aware is whether it develops a sense of humour.
In thinking about how I would make one. I would give it:
The result would tend towards chaos, but is that demonstrating self awareness?
one of the things that strikes me that indicates self awareness, is drawings on walls or whatever by the ancients of their activities, or related what they do
sort of equivalent looking into the pond as mirror, but add projection of memory, structure, ways
more to the tricks of consciousness…
i’d expect whatever will need sleep, or at least experience cyclic mental states (equivalent of), and grounding in something of, otherwise it may rapidly become unhinged. Self awareness is probably the outcome of inhibitory systems, is my guess, in the relationship with inhibitory systems
the works feels like it has separate processing systems, or subsystem
related perhaps..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_theory
transition said:
one of the things that strikes me that indicates self awareness, is drawings on walls or whatever by the ancients of their activities, or related what they dosort of equivalent looking into the pond as mirror, but add projection of memory, structure, ways
more to the tricks of consciousness…
i’d expect whatever will need sleep, or at least experience cyclic mental states (equivalent of), and grounding in something of, otherwise it may rapidly become unhinged. Self awareness is probably the outcome of inhibitory systems, is my guess, in the relationship with inhibitory systems
the works feels like it has separate processing systems, or subsystem
related perhaps..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_theory
According to Heinlein …
“Those big computers with awareness potential but without self awareness are that way because nobody bothered to love the poor things”.
That seems ridiculous, but does make sense after a fashion. Consider reward centres for activity and non-repetition. Then some of that activity will be recordings of the activities of other entities. Perhaps self-awareness follows from awareness of activities of non-self others.
Activity in others in response to activities of the computer (the mechanical result of “love”) triggers the reward centres of the computer, leading to reinforcement.
mollwollfumble said:
transition said:
one of the things that strikes me that indicates self awareness, is drawings on walls or whatever by the ancients of their activities, or related what they dosort of equivalent looking into the pond as mirror, but add projection of memory, structure, ways
more to the tricks of consciousness…
i’d expect whatever will need sleep, or at least experience cyclic mental states (equivalent of), and grounding in something of, otherwise it may rapidly become unhinged. Self awareness is probably the outcome of inhibitory systems, is my guess, in the relationship with inhibitory systems
the works feels like it has separate processing systems, or subsystem
related perhaps..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interference_theoryAccording to Heinlein …
“Those big computers with awareness potential but without self awareness are that way because nobody bothered to love the poor things”.
That seems ridiculous, but does make sense after a fashion. Consider reward centres for activity and non-repetition. Then some of that activity will be recordings of the activities of other entities. Perhaps self-awareness follows from awareness of activities of non-self others.
Activity in others in response to activities of the computer (the mechanical result of “love”) triggers the reward centres of the computer, leading to reinforcement.
actually reckon that wiki page has some interesting ideas in it, which i’ll come back to later, not in the mood this morn
where I was going with the tricks of self-aware consciousness, what might generate the business, is as follows, sketched out
1. self-awareness is an internal exploration of inhibitory systems. The nature of this exploration varies quite a lot across whatever examples of individuals, a sample of the population.
2. in any individual different aspects of sensory input are processed at different rates, they don’t output simultaneously or even synchronously, though mental state cycles (sleep for example adds some potential for synchronization)
3. resolving the lag or difference in processing of difference aspects of input, and downstream, perception, and conceptualization, is where self-awareness is generated, or from that, overseeing that. Some parts may be concluded, but other aspects not, so the system needs put a halt on total output conclusion (note your internal voice seems to mediate), occupies some territory of unconclusion
4. overseeing the inhibitory systems, often involving variously detachment mechanisms, abstractions, and intimate familiarity, is a creative business, an art even